Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|

Just wanted to chime in and say thank you for the replies. They helped a lot. I also think part of the frustration has been me being sick with Strep, and having two younger kids being sick and not getting enough sleep, so my emotions were a bit high.

Anyway, based on the advice here. I'm going to press on without making any changes. If it works, it works. If not, I'll make a few changes here and there. The irony of this whole thing was that the setting and some of the character details were last minute changes based on current world events. If I need to, I can make a few changes to differentiate and it'll still work, but either way, I'm not in panic mode anymore.

So thanks guys. I appreciate it.
 
Cyan said:
Honestly that bugs the shit out of me too. I'll be explaining some new thing I'm working on that I think is really cool, and the person I'm talking to goes "oh it sounds just like xyz." Sucks all the air out of it for me.

What I've tried is just asking people not to do that. Which sort of works, but it's a natural urge for people to draw patterns between things, to notice similarities and remark on them. I think it's usually not intended as a slight on your creativity or anything. Probably they don't even realize it's being taken that way.

I dunno. Let me know if you find a solution to this problem. :P
Click to expand...
I notice that in my case I will even say it myself while talking about a story of mine in order to make it clearer for the person, "you know, kinda like so and so". I think that's probably because the three people I usually talk about my work with know me so well that they already know what inspires me by default, so I feel comfortable about it.

But yeah, like you said it happens because people are trying to find patterns and it's not meant as a slight. I actually see it as a sign that the person is interested and paying attention since they were able to make a connection, especially when they compare it to something I hold in high regard.
 
DD said:
Saw this on reddit. :P

UAJ2zjG.jpg
Click to expand...

I fall into the swamp relatively quickly.
 
I'm on, "This is going to be a lot of work." right now. Or I'm "Ok but it still sucks." not really sure since the first draft is done and it does suck, but I think I can fix it?
 
DD said:
Saw this on reddit. :P

UAJ2zjG.jpg
Click to expand...

I fell in to the swamp pretty hard with my last project but since switching to the current project I feel like that I am wavering between the "OK but it still suck" and "Quick let's call it a day and say we learnt something" stage.

Either way I am still making progress and learning a lot about myself and my writing methods.
 
AngmarsKing701 said:
Spot on from both of you. Great responses.

And no, I'm not ready. I've barely written 30K words in 2 years and I've signed up to write 30K PER MONTH for the next three months.
Click to expand...

Haha. I'm with you. 30k/month is looking ambitious, indeed, since I got another project and I'm back on a chapter every other month for the magazine. I'll expand the challenge a bit, I think. Include refurbishments, recycling, and perhaps the upper limits of the short novella length (so 20k-40k instead of just 30-40k), etc. Hopefully, that'll help a bit.


DD said:
Mostly because of the insecurities that come when we are searching for our dreams when the world screams "get a boring job that pays the bills, get married and have children". Add to that the fact that here in Brazil, people don't read that much. I actually started reading when I was 26 or 27, when the fire of the writing started burning on my chest (it's a weird story), which is ridiculous because you can't possibly think about writing if you don't read. I'm a book worm now, but I didn't read when I was younger, unless I was obliged to by the school, and this is something I feel that is dragging me down. Things should be easier to put on the paper if I had more hours of flight with literature. Add all these insecurities to the fact that I'm always reading and listening in podcasts how hard is to be taken by a publisher (yeah, I can self publish it as an e-book, but this technology is finding a hard time trying to penetrate this market), and that you need to make your name out into the world before you reach a publisher, while I think I'm the most boring human being on Earth. :P
Click to expand...

That's amazing, though! It already sounds like you have far more drive and interesting background to draw from than many of us. The problem with the "if only" mentality is that it's true for almost everyone. If only we'd read more books, if only we'd been able to take writing courses, if only... We all think these things. No matter what your base, you'll always wish you had something else, so I just want you to know that we're all united by these insecurities. That's why worrying about inadequacies before a book is done is kind of silly (even though I know it's hard not to have them). If you focus on the hurdles like thinking about finding a publisher or the market or getting your name out into the world, etc., etc. instead of just writing, you'll sink yourself before you've started. Just ignore all that stuff. Those worries are for AFTER you finish the book! :)


Dolla Dolla said:
Are you making a thread for it?
Click to expand...

I was just going to put it in here like the last challenge and maybe drop a note in the Reading OT, but more participation would be more fun. Would a thread be better?
 
H.Protagonist said:
I was just going to put it in here like the last challenge and maybe drop a note in the Reading OT, but more participation would be more fun. Would a thread be better?
Click to expand...

A thread would get way more visibility, and maybe encourage more people (as the NoNoWriMo thread did).

Wish I could commit to it, but I can't give up that amount of time right now. I'll stick to writing a sonnet a day for the foreseeable.
 
H.Protagonist said:
So...you guys ready for the New Year's Resolution Challenge? :D
Click to expand...

H.Protagonist said:
Haha. I'm with you. 30k/month is looking ambitious, indeed, since I got another project and I'm back on a chapter every other month for the magazine. I'll expand the challenge a bit, I think. Include refurbishments, recycling, and perhaps the upper limits of the short novella length (so 20k-40k instead of just 30-40k), etc. Hopefully, that'll help a bit.
Click to expand...

Not ready, but willing :)

I'm glad about the 20k thing, I was going to aim for 30k but even that is a dubious prospect given how slowly I write.

(I'm not too keen on it having its own thread personally.)
 
How do y'all deal with the issue of writing characters that have their own unique dialogue voices? I find my characters always speaking with a variation of my own voice, in I guess a Murakami kind of style, but it bothers me a bit that my characters don't have more unique ways of expressing themselves.
 
sirap said:
Chris Fox just posted a video about his earnings for 2016. Good insight for those who want to know what the average author makes with self-publishing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evfuyy4XU78
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I read his posts on kboards when I see them and I've read a couple of his books, but I don't follow him so I would have missed this video.

I liked that he included his expenses and how much the IRS took. I wouldn't call him an average self-publisher but it was interesting to see his numbers. He published five books, three were fiction and two non-fiction and he spent a fair amount on editing, covers, and marketing, after taxes I think he was down to $70k which is impressive. I think if he's able to pick up his release schedule he'll do even better next year.

My numbers are no where near as impressive but I was thinking about posting them if anyone was interested.
 
I love that image so much. I am definitely in the swamp right now.
 
Soulfire said:
Thanks for the link. I read his posts on kboards when I see them and I've read a couple of his books, but I don't follow him so I would have missed this video.

I liked that he included his expenses and how much the IRS took. I wouldn't call him an average self-publisher but it was interesting to see his numbers. He published five books, three were fiction and two non-fiction and he spent a fair amount on editing, covers, and marketing, after taxes I think he was down to $70k which is impressive. I think if he's able to pick up his release schedule he'll do even better next year.

My numbers are no where near as impressive but I was thinking about posting them if anyone was interested.
Click to expand...

Always interested in how authors are doing financially when they go the route alone, what works for them, what successes they've had, lessons learned, etc. Please share.
 
2016 Self-Publishing/Writing Stats

Books Published 2 + 2 box sets
Book Sales 1,534
Pages Read 76,889
Free Downloads 10,389
Revenue $4,240.46
Expenses $556.64
Words Written 145,348*

*I did a horrible job keeping track of this for half of the year so this number isn’t very accurate, but probably not as off as I would like

I had a lot of lofty goals for 2016, unfortunately due to situations within my control, getting pregnant, I was not able to meet them all. I have to say I’m totally fine with that. My self-publishing quest is not a short term thing, I’m planning on doing this for a while and slow years are inevitable and a part of life.

My hope is I’ll be able to pick up the slack next year, but I’m not going to kill myself trying. My priority is going to be my kids and the only writing goal I’m giving myself is to get back into the habit of writing.

I did amazing the first half of the year, writing over 2500 words a day five days a week and lately I’ve written nothing. Knowing that I’ve done it before, though, is encouraging because I know I can do it again.

To get a little insight into what I didn’t accomplish this year, I had planned to publish 8 books, plus box sets. I was also going to completely redo my mailing list because right now it’s pretty barebones and I feel like it could be a lot better. I didn’t publish anything after April and I know if I’d kept up publishing regularly I would have done better.

The fact that I did as well as I did (I realize $4k isn’t $170k but it’s my best year so far and I’m happy) without publishing anything for the last eight months is pretty crazy. With Amazon there are cliffs and if you don’t publish regularly or get a huge number of sales you’ll fall off and people will have difficulty just finding you, which is why mailing lists come in handy. I was lucky enough that one of my first in series that is free has managed to stay in the top 100 in it's genre for most of the year and that drives sales to my other books. I've currently got 7 books published, plus two box sets, one novella, and one short.
 
BorkBork said:
An average self publisher makes 170k a year? I guess I'm missing the boat there haha
Click to expand...

I guess it's a matter of perspective. The numbers he's pulling would've left me slack-jawed three years ago. Now? I'd be panicking if my royalties dropped that low. The craziest thing is that I'm not even considered a top-earner. There are literally hundreds of "middlers" like me struggling to break into the ranks of seven-figure juggernauts like Bella Frost.
 
sirap said:
I guess it's a matter of perspective. The numbers he's pulling would've left me slack-jawed three years ago. Now? I'd be panicking if my royalties dropped that low. The craziest thing is that I'm not even considered a top-earner. There are literally hundreds of "middlers" like me struggling to break into the ranks of seven-figure juggernauts like Bella Frost.
Click to expand...

Is this short niche fiction or non-fiction stuff? I can't imagine people writing the average novel once every 2-3 years could pull in those kinds of numbers, but I'll admit I don't know self-publishing at all.
 
Jintor said:
So I was writing a homicide detectives in fantasy thing but nowwwwww I kinda want to write a heist movie
Click to expand...
You saw Rogue One, didn't you.
 
eyeball_kid said:
Is this short niche fiction or non-fiction stuff? I can't imagine people writing the average novel once every 2-3 years could pull in those kinds of numbers, but I'll admit I don't know self-publishing at all.
Click to expand...

Romance, urban fantasy, military sci-fi. Pretty much any popular fiction genre really.

A novel every 2-3 years? I don't think anyone could survive with that kind of output. Most indie authors I know publish 2-3 novels every month.
 
sirap said:
Romance, urban fantasy, military sci-fi. Pretty much any popular fiction genre really.

A novel every 2-3 years? I don't think anyone could survive with that kind of output. Most indie authors I know publish 2-3 novels every month.
Click to expand...

2-3 every month? Wow. Are those more what could be called novellas, or are we talking 200+ page books? How do you even have time to edit?
 
eyeball_kid said:
2-3 every month? Wow. Are those more what could be called novellas, or are we talking 200+ page books? How do you even have time to edit?
Click to expand...

When I first heard that in here I said the same thing. It took me 3 years to write my first, 3 months rushing doing a bad job on my second and I still haven't finished my current which I started 2 or 3 years ago.
 
Let's get ou of the swamp toghether, guys. :3

Mr-Joker said:
I fell in to the swamp pretty hard with my last project but since switching to the current project I feel like that I am wavering between the "OK but it still suck" and "Quick let's call it a day and say we learnt something" stage.

Either way I am still making progress and learning a lot about myself and my writing methods.
Click to expand...
It's interested to see that some days you look at you text and thinks it stinks, but some other days you don't see much bad stuff and that makes you glad for that part. I'm currently on my forth revision, and after that I don't expect to see too much crappyness anymore
who am I kiddin... I know I'll hate it again and again. But I'll keep improving it! :D


H.Protagonist said:
That's amazing, though! It already sounds like you have far more drive and interesting background to draw from than many of us. The problem with the "if only" mentality is that it's true for almost everyone. If only we'd read more books, if only we'd been able to take writing courses, if only... We all think these things. No matter what your base, you'll always wish you had something else, so I just want you to know that we're all united by these insecurities. That's why worrying about inadequacies before a book is done is kind of silly (even though I know it's hard not to have them). If you focus on the hurdles like thinking about finding a publisher or the market or getting your name out into the world, etc., etc. instead of just writing, you'll sink yourself before you've started. Just ignore all that stuff. Those worries are for AFTER you finish the book! :)
Click to expand...
I guesse you're right. F*ck the publishers. I need to think about myself first.

Thanks for these words, HP! <3
 
eyeball_kid said:
2-3 every month? Wow. Are those more what could be called novellas, or are we talking 200+ page books? How do you even have time to edit?
Click to expand...

Yup, full-length novels. It's not that crazy whenyou break it down into smaller chunks. 5000 words a day x 5 days a week = 25,000 words. Some authors like to publish every week and with that schedule you already have a novella in your hands. Add another week and you have a 50,000 novel ready for publishing.
 
Doesn't sound like that leaves a lot of time for plotting/editing and revising though. Sounds kinda soul sucking in its own way, though I guess there isn't much choice if you want to make a really strong living from self publishing.
 
sirap said:
Romance, urban fantasy, military sci-fi. Pretty much any popular fiction genre really.

A novel every 2-3 years? I don't think anyone could survive with that kind of output. Most indie authors I know publish 2-3 novels every month.
Click to expand...

Man, and I thought my year-and-a-half turnaround was pretty good.

That sir, is madness D:
 
I had the same reaction upon reading that post, but think about it. If you write for a living, it's not that unreasonable. If I wrote on the schedule of a man with a 9-5 job I'd be able to churn out that sort of input. It would be more job than artistic expression, but I could do it.

As it is, I write mostly at the end of the day in two hour blocks or so. Also keep in mind most people write as a side project, not a full time job.
 
SolVanderlyn said:
I had the same reaction upon reading that post, but think about it. If you write for a living, it's not that unreasonable. If I wrote on the schedule of a man with a 9-5 job I'd be able to churn out that sort of input. It would be more job than artistic expression, but I could do it.

As it is, I write mostly at the end of the day in two hour blocks or so. Also keep in mind most people write as a side project, not a full time job.
Click to expand...

I guess I'd be worried about quality though. I did 5,000 words a day when doing ghost writing and it was pretty darn grueling. It didn't leave a lot of time for editing or revising let alone preplanning, though with ghost writing I was just following someone else's ideas. Or hey, maybe I'm just bad at that kind of schedule, I dunno.
 
I wish I could write on that kind of scale. As it is, I only seem to have time on Saturdays. If I was really disciplined, I could write maybe an hour a night too. Having young kids makes it really hard to write on any kind of "work" schedule. :(
 
inspired to see how many days next year i can write at least 5k words

think i'll buy a physical calendar and actually keep track

pretty cool if i can hit all 365
 
Master Milk said:
inspired to see how many days next year i can write at least 5k words

think i'll buy a physical calendar and actually keep track

pretty cool if i can hit all 365
Click to expand...

ooh I kept track... lets see.

total words in 2016 - 170700

days with at least 5k words - 10 (I did have a few that were 4700-4999 though)

days with at least 10k words - 1

aka not super exciting for me but still not horrible :P

my goal is merely 200k words next year.
 
that's pretty cool, you should totally count those 4,999 days tho lol

since you mentioned a word total, i see that 5k*365 = a lot of fucking words . . .

i wonder how many complete stories, if any, this will end up producing
 
Well, I did it.

I wrote 30,000 words for a story by the end of the year! Granted, it's fanfiction but still it's something!

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12058731/12/A-Peanuts-Tale

This is the most I've written for a creative work that I decided to do on my own time. It'd be nice if people could check out the whole thing. This last chapter sort of rounds out the end of the first arc I'm writing.

This year I'm going to attempt to write for the original story ideas I have. I don't know how much I can do, but hopefully it's more than amount of words I achieved this year.
 
H.Protagonist said:
A New Years Resolution Challenge w/ a commercial theme might be a thing, then. Anyone else interested?

I'm thinking a 3 month period (start Jan - end March), write one 20-35k (or 35-40k?) novella per month, each to be published on Amazon(?) at the end of each month with the goal of have a small stable of commercial works by the end. No set genre except what you think will sell.
Click to expand...

This idea is super intriguing to me and I feel like I could do this. Absolutely want to try doing this with a genre I've wanted to explore for a while (and because I'm really delaying a second pass on a story I wrote a while back).
 
well i spent about a day on this heist thing and came up with a good-ish premise (reusing some of my procedural worldbuilding stuff). Not happy with the outlining though. Maybe I don't need to be. I don't know.
 
mu cephei said:
Not ready, but willing :)

I'm glad about the 20k thing, I was going to aim for 30k but even that is a dubious prospect given how slowly I write.

(I'm not too keen on it having its own thread personally.)
Click to expand...

Excellent! I also included the 'refurbishment' out to give people some breathing room. Thread-wise, I have the outline almost ready to go, but still on the fence about making an actual thread for it. I already feel like I'm biting off a bit much with the part time work, the baby, and my publisher's deadlines for Dead Endings. Could force us to stick to things, though. Maybe if someone co-chaired it?


Soulfire said:
2016 Self-Publishing/Writing Stats

Books Published 2 + 2 box sets
Book Sales 1,534
Pages Read 76,889
Free Downloads 10,389
Revenue $4,240.46
Expenses $556.64
Words Written 145,348*

*I did a horrible job keeping track of this for half of the year so this number isn't very accurate, but probably not as off as I would like

I had a lot of lofty goals for 2016, unfortunately due to situations within my control, getting pregnant, I was not able to meet them all. I have to say I'm totally fine with that. My self-publishing quest is not a short term thing, I'm planning on doing this for a while and slow years are inevitable and a part of life.

My hope is I'll be able to pick up the slack next year, but I'm not going to kill myself trying. My priority is going to be my kids and the only writing goal I'm giving myself is to get back into the habit of writing.

I did amazing the first half of the year, writing over 2500 words a day five days a week and lately I've written nothing. Knowing that I've done it before, though, is encouraging because I know I can do it again.

To get a little insight into what I didn't accomplish this year, I had planned to publish 8 books, plus box sets. I was also going to completely redo my mailing list because right now it's pretty barebones and I feel like it could be a lot better. I didn't publish anything after April and I know if I'd kept up publishing regularly I would have done better.

The fact that I did as well as I did (I realize $4k isn't $170k but it's my best year so far and I'm happy) without publishing anything for the last eight months is pretty crazy. With Amazon there are cliffs and if you don't publish regularly or get a huge number of sales you'll fall off and people will have difficulty just finding you, which is why mailing lists come in handy. I was lucky enough that one of my first in series that is free has managed to stay in the top 100 in it's genre for most of the year and that drives sales to my other books. I've currently got 7 books published, plus two box sets, one novella, and one short.
Click to expand...

That's amazing, Soulfire. Really. Thanks for posting the details! Very interesting stuff to see it laid out. I saw in the parenting thread that you're expecting soon (now I understand why it'll be super hard to keep any kind of pace), but feel free to join the challenge at your own pace if you like. Would love to pick your brain more on publishing, regardless.


DD said:
Let's get ou of the swamp toghether, guys. :3

It's interested to see that some days you look at you text and thinks it stinks, but some other days you don't see much bad stuff and that makes you glad for that part. I'm currently on my forth revision, and after that I don't expect to see too much crappyness anymore
who am I kiddin... I know I'll hate it again and again. But I'll keep improving it! :D


I guesse you're right. F*ck the publishers. I need to think about myself first.

Thanks for these words, HP! <3
Click to expand...

Np. Just finishing the book is the important part. Once you reach that point, then you can join the rest of us as we flail about worrying and fretting over all the other stuff. :)


Valerie Cherish said:
This idea is super intriguing to me and I feel like I could do this. Absolutely want to try doing this with a genre I've wanted to explore for a while (and because I'm really delaying a second pass on a story I wrote a while back).
Click to expand...

Be intrigued and do join! Will post the challenge soon.
 
Back to back posting, but it's time, so let's go~


Writing OT's New Year's Resolution Challenge: Commercial Writing

Flex your creative muscles and challenge yourself to approach writing like a career! It's time to set aside your Victorian dinosaur romance masterpiece and write like your dinner depended on it. The goal of this challenge is not to be picked up by Penguin or win a Hugo, but to consistently write and release several short books to be sold over the next three months. If you've ever toyed with the idea of being a writer full-time, now's your opportunity to put that New Year's resolution to write more into practice.

Goal: Consistent completion and release of short books to create a stable of commercial works.*


Details-
  • Write and publish 3 novellas (20k-40k each) by April 1, 2017 (*35k is the sweet spot for KU $$$)
  • Release platform Amazon
  • Pricing TBD
  • Genre: Whatever you think will sell.
  • Recycled and refurbished works allowed. (i.e., you can expand on or edit/tidy up an older work to use as one of your books)

Schedule-
  • Book 1: Completed (written, edited, cover done, etc.) and live in the Amazon marketplace by Feb 1.
  • Book 2: Completed (written, edited, cover done, etc.) and live in the Amazon marketplace by Mar 1.
  • Book 3: Completed (written, edited, cover done, etc.) and live in the Amazon marketplace by April 1.
  • Post-April- potential bundling of works/further discussion of follow-up sales strategies

Checklist-
  • Amazon author account
  • silly pen name
  • Framed picture of Stephen King or Brandon Sanderson to hang above your computer
  • Coffee mug and/or hip flask

*Disclaimer: No one is likely to achieve fame or fortune during this challenge. Anyone who does earn more than $4 will be required to take a picture of themselves with their sales earnings for the 'Board of Riches' I'm going to make.


Resources/Info:

Amazon Author Central: You can have up to 3 pen names on Author Central. Once you have a work published, search the work through Author Central and then claim it. You'll be prompted to add the new pen name to your dashboard. Once you verify that it is, they will set up a separate page for that pen name. After that, a drop down menu, at the right top of the screen, will show all your pen names.

Soulfire's Self-Publishing Numbers for 2016 <--A detailed look into the self-publishing gig from one of our own.

- Formatting: Free Template, Draft2Digital (free formatting), Mark Cokers formatting guide for Smashwords

- Covers: DIY & Paid cover resources:
Sales Tracking: (courtesy of sirap)
Get Book Report - https://www.getbookreport.com/

Early Marketing:

- Twitter Account: You might want to consider starting a twitter account for your pen name now so that you can cultivate a few followers in the weeks leading up to tell about your shorts when they release. Not necessary, of course, but it's free marketing and could benefit your sales. If you do start one, let me know and I'll put a * next to your name. No need to reveal what it is, but this will be a good way to see how much of an impact a little marketing does for this.

Tip from other self-published authors:

1) Do not upload on Friday nights (to Amazon)
2) Titles really need to be eye-catching for the genre
3) Nail your keywords
4) Blurbs need to be focused and tight


Participants:
Cyan
 
If I had an extra two hours in the day I'd be down for this, but all my free time needs to go elsewhere :(

I have a cool scifi idea that would be perfect for this too D:
 
Hmm. I don't have Word on my new PC. I can use Scrivener, I guess (where I'm still working on the 2nd novel in my series) or ... does anyone have suggestions for this writing challenge? How difficult is it to get something from Google Docs into Kindle?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sports betting |OT|
7
11K
Hideous Snake replied
Food |OT| GAFeteria
2
77
18K
SLoWMoTIoN replied
ItalianGAF |OT| - Italia
3
1K
Azzurri replied
Write a novel in November! | NaNoWriMo 2017
3 4 5 6 7
319
42K
Timu replied
Straight & Alternative |OT|
37
6K
Astral Dog replied
Top Bottom