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Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I know word count can be a big turnoff. I've had agents straight tell me they were rejecting my first book because it was too long. Didn't even read the samples. I wonder if the same has happened with the second, because while it's much shorter, it's still pretty long for YA (by about 10k words).

Speaking of YA, man agents want that but they don't define what they want. "I'll take anything YA" means genre fiction to lit fiction, and I bet some that have rejected me hit the word "horror" and went no further.

It's hard to know for sure though. If you're really adamant about sending it back, I'd give it a six month buffer.
Young Adult seems to have narrowed its definition to a very particular sort of narrative in recent years. I think this comic sums it up (albeit in an exaggerated and generalized manner)

3502.jpg

Of course, I'm generalizing by saying all editors think this way, too. But simply having a protagonist with powers or being a coming of age story isn't always what people are looking for when they say they want "YA fiction". It's kind of depressing, but then, I don't really read that sort of young adult fiction, so I'm not really qualified to comment on its quality
other than the fact that it seems like the fast food of literature at first glance
.
 
So would you say it's better not to mention technical specifics of your story in your query (e.g., genre, word count) and let the story synopsis do its job? For example, instead of saying my book is a sci-fi horror like Alien, I could just explain to them what it's about and let them catagorize it on their own? It would at least give my query a chance and not get shot down by certain word triggers.
No, you'll want that information in your query letter. Keep at near the bottom, either the last paragraph or second to last. Agents and publishing houses want to know your word counts and genre specifics, even if that could mean rejection based on criteria they don't list.

And keep in mind some of what I'm saying is my own guesswork. The rejection letters I've gotten regarding my writing abilities have always been pretty positive, but the bulk I receive are pretty standard forms. It makes me think the agents in question didn't get very far into what I sent them for one reason or another.

For my first book, I'm confident it was the word count. First time author with a 130k word fantasy novel? Yeah, that's a hard sell. Didn't help that the characters are all talking animals. Niche book with a niche audience that would be expensive to print.

For the second...eh, who knows? Horror doesn't always do gangbuster numbers, so that could have been the first turnoff. Could have been that the novel itself sounds whiny and angsty because it mostly is. Could be something I haven't even thought of yet!

Regardless, the only solution is to just keep sending it out until you're out of options. Unless you're getting specifics on why its' being rejected, such as writing quality, you really can't know for sure.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I have a different sort of writing I want to ask about.

I've been trying to get into games journalism for quite a while. I keep a blog about games and have gone freelance on several sites, but the freelance sites all seem like dead end opportunities that never bolster my resume in any substantial way (and also don't pay). Is it even worth it to continue if it doesn't seem to put my foot in the door any more than my blog does? How does one pursue a journalism career? Is it really as much of a long shot as it seems to be?

I don't have very high hopes for it, so I've always pursued it in addition to whatever else I'm doing in my life. It's not like I'm banking on it. Insight would still be appreciated, however - if anyone has any.
 
I have a different sort of writing I want to ask about.

I've been trying to get into games journalism for quite a while. I keep a blog about games and have gone freelance on several sites, but the freelance sites all seem like dead end opportunities that never bolster my resume in any substantial way (and also don't pay). Is it even worth it to continue if it doesn't seem to put my foot in the door any more than my blog does? How does one pursue a journalism career? Is it really as much of a long shot as it seems to be?

I don't have very high hopes for it, so I've always pursued it in addition to whatever else I'm doing in my life. It's not like I'm banking on it. Insight would still be appreciated, however - if anyone has any.

Well, the blog entries featured on dead end freelance sites may not exactly propel you into the field, but they do give tangible examples of 1) your writing, and 2) shows actual effort in the field whether there's much viewership or not. When I was screening resumes for marketing positions I would always look for stuff like this and read an article or two to get an idea of their abilities/style/dedication, etc. Plus, having your work featured somewhere else, however small that place may be, does count for something on the resume. Think of those articles as opportunities to refine your writing, and when you have one you're particularly proud of or that gets eyeballs, you can always refer back to that when submitting to a bigger site. You're not wrong that it is a long shot, but if you don't come up through traditional means (via working in the industry or other non-gaming publications) it's still probably your best chance to prove you have the chops. Have you published anything else? Book, articles in some other field...? Done any live interviews (youtube, podcasts, etc.)? Those kinds of things also help.
 

Jintor

Member
I feel like I need to sit down and resnowflake my story and maybe limit it to three concurrent storylines instead of like seven
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Well, the blog entries featured on dead end freelance sites may not exactly propel you into the field, but they do give tangible examples of 1) your writing, and 2) shows actual effort in the field whether there's much viewership or not. When I was screening resumes for marketing positions I would always look for stuff like this and read an article or two to get an idea of their abilities/style/dedication, etc. Plus, having your work featured somewhere else, however small that place may be, does count for something on the resume. Think of those articles as opportunities to refine your writing, and when you have one you're particularly proud of or that gets eyeballs, you can always refer back to that when submitting to a bigger site. You're not wrong that it is a long shot, but if you don't come up through traditional means (via working in the industry or other non-gaming publications) it's still probably your best chance to prove you have the chops. Have you published anything else? Book, articles in some other field...? Done any live interviews (youtube, podcasts, etc.)? Those kinds of things also help.
Thanks, this was all good advice.

I've been crossposting my blog posts (which only get around 1k hits if they're really popular) on Creators.co, which then gets shifted over to Now Loading if it's good enough. I've been wondering if it's worth it to keep doing stuff like that, but I guess it does boost my resume. I wonder how trustworthy that site is, though.

I feel like I need to sit down and resnowflake my story and maybe limit it to three concurrent storylines instead of like seven
I haven't read your story, so this is all vague advice, but is it possible to take the ideas you have and shove them into other characters' stories/viewpoints? Like, say you had Person A doing something and Person B doing something in the original draft... how much work would it take to rework it so that Person B still does things, only from Person A's point of view?

I always try to keep ideas in rather than cut them, but you have to decide if it compromises the overall narrative or not. If shoehorning one viewpoint in feels unnatural, it might be worth cutting altogether.
 

Jintor

Member
Well the thing is I want to write ensemble but I should probably at least compete one storylines as a Skeleton to hang everything else from first before I go on.

Also vaguely considering releasing each story standalone and combining them later buy that might be a bit dumb release wise
 
Was thinking we could all start a GAF kickstarter, help to finance and promote a new book from a GAFer every year or every other year. The story with the best quality and potential for success is chosen, and the rest of us pitches in some money to help the winner secure a professional editor to polish it for final publication. From there, the rest of us helps to promote the book (i.e., reviews on Amazon, Goodreads, etc.).

Before you think it, I don't have anything on the table and I wouldn't be a participant, but I would like to see some of the more talented writers here among us succeed, and I think we have the community here to facilitate that.

Thoughts?
 
Was thinking we could all start a GAF kickstarter, help to finance and promote a new book from a GAFer every year or every other year. The story with the best quality and potential for success is chosen, and the rest of us pitches in some money to help the winner secure a professional editor to polish it for final publication. From there, the rest of us helps to promote the book (i.e., reviews on Amazon, Goodreads, etc.).

Before you think it, I don't have anything on the table and I wouldn't be a participant, but I would like to see some of the more talented writers here among us succeed, and I think we have the community here to facilitate that.

Thoughts?
I'd personally be too bitter to do anything if I wasn't chosen. Which is funny since I probably wouldn't enter the contest or whatever anyways.

:p
 
Trying to get back into writing poetry - I don't have the time to spend writing anything more substantial than short things right now. What is Writing-GAF's thoughts on sonnets?
 

zulux21

Member
Trying to get back into writing poetry - I don't have the time to spend writing anything more substantial than short things right now. What is Writing-GAF's thoughts on sonnets?

I can't say that I am that fond of them.
though I am sure some find them enjoyable.
they kind of make me feel dim
or perhaps they are just unrelatable.
I suppose with the right timing
they could be some fun
but all that forced rhyming
makes me go, I'm done
I suppose I am not poetic
more of a straight shooter.
and far to pathetic
to write a sonnet without tutor.
still I hope you forgive my jokes
as this was clearly a hoax.


uh... so on a more serious note where I am not randomly spewing nonsense. personally I would never read sonnets alone, but I do find it interesting when a character has a speech pattern similar to them. as long as it is well done and not to forced. obviously my quick one was of poor quality and forced in general lol.


to be fair I am not all that interested in poetry ect in general, even though I effectively write some when I am doing song lyrics *shrugs* just never really appealed to me, but to be fair 99% of writing doesn't appeal to me as I read basically only comic books, manga, and short stories/ light novels similar to those >.>

Was thinking we could all start a GAF kickstarter, help to finance and promote a new book from a GAFer every year or every other year. The story with the best quality and potential for success is chosen, and the rest of us pitches in some money to help the winner secure a professional editor to polish it for final publication. From there, the rest of us helps to promote the book (i.e., reviews on Amazon, Goodreads, etc.).

Before you think it, I don't have anything on the table and I wouldn't be a participant, but I would like to see some of the more talented writers here among us succeed, and I think we have the community here to facilitate that.

Thoughts?

I'll just promise if somehow I ever make it big I will help others in here get published :p
but that is mostly because I actively know pretty much nothing I write will ever qualify for "potential for success" as quality aside, and my really long story aside, I tend to work with niche markets :p

that being said, it would be cool to see more people published from here.
 
Trying to get back into writing poetry - I don't have the time to spend writing anything more substantial than short things right now. What is Writing-GAF's thoughts on sonnets?
I enjoy them. I wrote a story told over 40 something sonnets back in 2011. I don't know if it's any good, but hey, it was something to do while at work.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
I've been trying to get more into poetry, read more poetry, write poetry in my journal. I've been doing more freeform stuff, but I only really write when I'm feeling angsty. I actually think some of them might be good, but I've been waiting to write a few more so I have like a bunch of five or so to have a friend look over.

I enjoy them. I wrote a story told over 40 something sonnets back in 2011. I don't know if it's any good, but hey, it was something to do while at work.

Jeeeeesus that a lot of sonnets to tell a story...
 
I've been trying to get more into poetry, read more poetry, write poetry in my journal. I've been doing more freeform stuff, but I only really write when I'm feeling angsty. I actually think some of them might be good, but I've been waiting to write a few more so I have like a bunch of five or so to have a friend look over.



Jeeeeesus that a lot of sonnets to tell a story...
Is it? I feel like I could have kept going with it, to be honest. Was this strange horror story called The Land of Crypts. Person wakes up in a place filled with crypts, and all the crypts contain monsters. Yadda yadda yadda, religion happens :p

I need to post it on my blog or something since it isn't anywhere available though.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
That awful moment when you're editing something and reading over it and go "this is awful" in an offensive sort of way. In this case, waaaaaaay more pro-life than I was expecting. Hoping I got it to a nice, depressing neutral.
 
That awful moment when you're editing something and reading over it and go "this is awful" in an offensive sort of way. In this case, waaaaaaay more pro-life than I was expecting. Hoping I got it to a nice, depressing neutral.

Those do suck, but I find they're counter-balanced with moments where you weren't confident in what you'd written first draft, might've even felt it was outright bad, but when you come back to edit it you find that it's actually not awful, or in fact it's even pretty damn good.

I just wish that feeling of confidence and pride in my work actually lasted longer than a few hours before I sink back into "gaaah is my writing even good enough to interest anyone?"
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
That awful moment when you're editing something and reading over it and go "this is awful" in an offensive sort of way. In this case, waaaaaaay more pro-life than I was expecting. Hoping I got it to a nice, depressing neutral.

It's good to go back and see it with a fresh eye - is it something that can be fixed and made stronger? Because a good bout of editing can feel just as good as writing something new.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I mentioned that I had written a book on an imgur post that was going to be hard to publish because it's 190k words, and some guy tore me apart saying that it was guaranteed to be "fucking terrible" because it was "full of filler" and that "even fucking gas station attendants have written a fantasy novel." I know it was a troll, but geez, man, some people know how to press your buttons and prey on your insecurities.

How is everyone's current project, or projects, if that's more accurate, coming along?
 

Jintor

Member
I wrote 5k words of my latest project, realised the structure was completely fucked and derivative, and am currently replotting the whole damn thing.

That guy was wrong btw - it's very fucking rare to have completed writing any book at all
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Still editing a batch of stories. Actually think they might be good? Maybe not? Who ever knows. Been lining up who in my friend group i'll have read what.

Also: fuck that guy. Fuck that guy and the horse he rode in on.
 

Jintor

Member
okay jesus god willing i've actually got a hold on my mystery

NOW I just need to plot the thing. a plot and b plot.

next time i'm just writing a fantasy story where Our Heroes go from point A to point B and suffer trials on the way, because fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking crime stories. i mean david eddings got rich as fuck off that shit and he got away with writing the same story 4 times more or less
 
I'm still between drafts like a lazy person. Probably won't start editing till February 1st.

Have been thinking on some short stories, but I've been really tired lately and throwing what I can at the video game project, so they'll probably stay on hold.
 
I wrote 5k words of my latest project, realised the structure was completely fucked and derivative, and am currently replotting the whole damn thing.

That guy was wrong btw - it's very fucking rare to have completed writing any book at all

I agree but to be fair... it was an imgur post comment. It was probably one of the more profound ones.

A finished book, no matter how bad, is better than about a billion unfinished fantasy novels that people were "writing". They are right up there with "I'm doing a final fantasy 7 remake" champions.
 

zulux21

Member
How is everyone's current project, or projects, if that's more accurate, coming along?

holidays have killed any progress on my main project, but I need to sit down timeline and worldbuild in general.

I know people get trapped in that world building trap... but alas since I fully expect my story to take 15-20 80k word books to finish... I likely should spend a decent amount of time building up my world now to make sure I have a clear idea of the world going forward.


beyond that, I have started outlining some ideas for a childrens cartoon/comic for a project for my wife to work on. we would work together on the story and then she would draw it as a comic, and then for the heck of it we would basically do an animated comic on youtube voicing it over thus I need to make sure I only use characters that my wife and I can reasonably do voices for :p
 

Delio

Member
I mentioned that I had written a book on an imgur post that was going to be hard to publish because it's 190k words, and some guy tore me apart saying that it was guaranteed to be "fucking terrible" because it was "full of filler" and that "even fucking gas station attendants have written a fantasy novel." I know it was a troll, but geez, man, some people know how to press your buttons and prey on your insecurities.

How is everyone's current project, or projects, if that's more accurate, coming along?

Havent touched anything in a while. Gotta get my drive back.
 
I mentioned that I had written a book on an imgur post that was going to be hard to publish because it's 190k words, and some guy tore me apart saying that it was guaranteed to be "fucking terrible" because it was "full of filler" and that "even fucking gas station attendants have written a fantasy novel." I know it was a troll, but geez, man, some people know how to press your buttons and prey on your insecurities.

How is everyone's current project, or projects, if that's more accurate, coming along?

He probably lashed out at you because of his own failings if I had to guess. Could be he tried to write a book and it was terrible, or maybe he's just failed at his dreams. Try not to dwell on his filth.

And my book is finished, Draft 2 or so anyway. Currently having friends and family read it while I take a brief break and go back to editing, mostly correcting spelling for now, rewriting a few lines here and there to try and tighten it up. Once friends and family are done I'll need to look for beta readers and possibly start sending it off to agents/publishers.
 

DD

Member
He probably lashed out at you because of his own failings if I had to guess. Could be he tried to write a book and it was terrible, or maybe he's just failed at his dreams. Try not to dwell on his filth.

And my book is finished, Draft 2 or so anyway. Currently having friends and family read it while I take a brief break and go back to editing, mostly correcting spelling for now, rewriting a few lines here and there to try and tighten it up. Once friends and family are done I'll need to look for beta readers and possibly start sending it off to agents/publishers.

This is something I don't get. I am a frustrated and depressed person, as fuck, but Jesus, hurting other people's feelings isn't something that brings me any sign of peace. I actually feel terrible when I feel I hurt some one's feelings. I actually hate when I see someone kind of feeling like I feel myself. Why, really, why most people seem to find joy in being assholes to everyone else?
 
This is something I don't get. I am a frustrated and depressed person, as fuck, but Jesus, hurting other people's feelings isn't something that brings me any sign of peace. I actually feel terrible when I feel I hurt some one's feelings. I actually hate when I see someone kind of feeling like I feel myself. Why, really, why most people seem to find joy in being assholes to everyone else?

I wouldn't say most people find joy in being assholes. I'd say most people don't even realize they're doing it. For those who do take pleasure, I honestly couldn't say why making someone miserable is such a boon. I suspect it isn't. I suspect that it doesn't actually do a lot for them, but lashing out has a, brief, therapeutic effect, allowing their frustration and anger to course out and, temporarily, relieve their stress.

I tend to think people like that are more selfish individuals, interested only in alleviating their stress and less concerned with how it's going to make other people feel, especially if said people aren't normally in their sphere of interaction day to day. It's a lack of empathy is my guess.
 

DD

Member
I wouldn't say most people find joy in being assholes. I'd say most people don't even realize they're doing it. For those who do take pleasure, I honestly couldn't say why making someone miserable is such a boon. I suspect it isn't. I suspect that it doesn't actually do a lot for them, but lashing out has a, brief, therapeutic effect, allowing their frustration and anger to course out and, temporarily, relieve their stress.

I tend to think people like that are more selfish individuals, interested only in alleviating their stress and less concerned with how it's going to make other people feel, especially if said people aren't normally in their sphere of interaction day to day. It's a lack of empathy is my guess.

I guess you're right. It's something I don't practice, so I don't even know how it makes you feel. It's the same as I was talking with a cousin the other day, about envy. I really don't understand envy. I mean, I see a guy with a nice car, or a beautiful house and I'm like "ooh, nice! I wish I had that", but that's it! I really don't understand people that actually want bad things to happen to that guy, or badmouth him. I mean, I understand your frustrations with the life, but how's that attitude is going to fix it? The human mind is really complex, and we learn everyday that our experiences are unique.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I wouldn't say most people find joy in being assholes. I'd say most people don't even realize they're doing it. For those who do take pleasure, I honestly couldn't say why making someone miserable is such a boon. I suspect it isn't. I suspect that it doesn't actually do a lot for them, but lashing out has a, brief, therapeutic effect, allowing their frustration and anger to course out and, temporarily, relieve their stress.

I tend to think people like that are more selfish individuals, interested only in alleviating their stress and less concerned with how it's going to make other people feel, especially if said people aren't normally in their sphere of interaction day to day. It's a lack of empathy is my guess.
In this case, the guy was a straight up sociopath. I checked his profile and it had stuff like "Awww, did someone quit imgur again because of me? Whiny bitches shouldn't take me seriously," and his comment history was appalling. At that point, I didn't care what he said about my book (based on the offhand information that he knew, which was next to nothing) and was just more upset that people like him exist. I wish I remembered his name.

He also told me, and I quote: "Your downvotes don't scare me, little man," which made me actually laugh out loud. Especially because it wasn't me who downvoted his comments.

Anyway, yeah, people like that actually would make for interesting characters in a story.

I'm trying to get my drive back, myself. Wrote 3 pages yesterday, which is a good day for me.
 
Wrote a long ass emotional rant because I found something that I guess in the back of my head I always feared. If you're interested, you can quote this message and read it. I'd appreciate it of course, if you read it before responding, but I also understand if you skip it.



Ok. I'm interrupting this long rant because as I read more of the wikipedia page on The Dresden Files, I'm starting to get the impression that beyond the elevator pitch, my story and The Dresden Files aren't all that similar, at least on a wider world-building scale.

I think I'm literally going to have to read it to figure out what I can do to tweak my story a bit if I can. I'm still gutted because maybe I just have to bin it and start a completely new story, but I can't say I'm as upset as I was when I started this post. There's at least a little hope that I can recover what I've written so far and make it unique on its own. Still, fuck me.

I guess my question is, does this happen to anyone else? Do you find that the stories, characters, or scenes that you write about turn up in other books or media? Another story idea I was thinking about writing revolves around VR. I'm almost scared to look up fiction involving VR now because what if my idea isn't new? I mean, I only know of a few main-stream concepts involving VR, and none of them sound like my story idea at all. I also wanted to add more technical detail to it (a la The Martian) to make it seem a little more realistic.

I don't know, just feeling....disappointed. I think my wife really had me believing I could do this for a living, but there's a lot of self-doubt at the moment.
 

Jintor

Member
i got the same problem man. i keep writing this book but whatever happens it keeps coming out as David Simon's Homicide. It's kind of great because as far as I can tell nobody's actually written a fantasy police procedural in a journalistic style before. It's also kind of shit because no matter what I do it just keeps fucking coming out as almost a complete rip-off of Homicide except I replaced guns with swords or something.

I really think the trick is to keep mixing it with other things and keep tweaking the story backwards and forwards and using the elements you already has as building blocks to remix. Don't worry too much about originality. There's a fucking thousand magical detectives out there, many of them in Chicago or LA or Manhattan or London occasionally (very few in Rome, Shanghai, or Canberra for whatever reason). I bet approximately half of them are weary cynical jerks with hearts of gold and a bottle of whiskey in the bottom drawer, those that aren't FBI profilers for the supernatural division or whatever. How many of them do I want to read?

I've seriously restarted this story and its beats like 5 times in the past two weeks alone... well, rebooted isn't the right word. I reuse the elements and just try and change it so it's not a direct rip of the last thing I read.

/edit do we have a discord?
 

DD

Member
Wrote a long ass emotional rant because I found something that I guess in the back of my head I always feared. If you're interested, you can quote this message and read it. I'd appreciate it of course, if you read it before responding, but I also understand if you skip it.



Ok. I'm interrupting this long rant because as I read more of the wikipedia page on The Dresden Files, I'm starting to get the impression that beyond the elevator pitch, my story and The Dresden Files aren't all that similar, at least on a wider world-building scale.

I think I'm literally going to have to read it to figure out what I can do to tweak my story a bit if I can. I'm still gutted because maybe I just have to bin it and start a completely new story, but I can't say I'm as upset as I was when I started this post. There's at least a little hope that I can recover what I've written so far and make it unique on its own. Still, fuck me.

I guess my question is, does this happen to anyone else? Do you find that the stories, characters, or scenes that you write about turn up in other books or media? Another story idea I was thinking about writing revolves around VR. I'm almost scared to look up fiction involving VR now because what if my idea isn't new? I mean, I only know of a few main-stream concepts involving VR, and none of them sound like my story idea at all. I also wanted to add more technical detail to it (a la The Martian) to make it seem a little more realistic.

I don't know, just feeling....disappointed. I think my wife really had me believing I could do this for a living, but there's a lot of self-doubt at the moment.

It has been said that all the great stories have already been written. And you know what? That's no problem at all! I mean, as long as it is not a complete rip-off, having similarities with other stories is inevitable.

I'll tell you something: I've written a book, but I'm feeling it might fail exactly because it doesn't have many similarities with any story I've seen before. It doesn't have a romance, not a lot of personal dramas, the story is told by many different characters and points of view... It's heavily focused on a concept, and the characters are just there to orbit around this concept. I don't know, I feel that because I'm using a concept that I believe is original, I can't help but think that it is a weird story, and people won't feel connected with it. I have some friends currently reading it, so I'm waiting for their feedback. It's not a good feeling to know that I've spent years working on this book on my spare time, depressed and working on a job I hate instead of looking for ways to heal and improve myself, and when I'm finally finishing it, I feel it will fail because of the lack of a human side on it.

Also, you have a wonderful wife!
 
/edit do we have a discord?

I don't think so. Not long after I made my original post, I felt embarrassed and hid a lot of what I posted. While I was editing my post, my 2 year old popped out of her room and it took nearly an hour to get her back down. I didn't even see your reply until just now.

I appreciate your reply. It does make me feel a little better knowing that I'm not the only one with this issue. I think my major issue with this whole thing was complete ignorance on all levels. My wife is very well read, but beyond Harry Potter, she doesn't read a lot of fantasy or sci-fi, mostly historical fiction. The friend that has also been reading my stories is only familiar with The Dresden Files because it was recommended to her and is on her "To Read" pile.

For me, I mostly read sci-fi and occasionally I dip into fantasy here and there. I honestly didn't think it was that common of a concept. I mean, I knew magic use was pretty common, but outside of say magic schools, vampires, and zombies, I thought I was pretty safe as far as contemporary settings go.

In any case, I'm not feeling so bad anymore. It was a quick one-off idea for NaNoWriMo and to be brutally honest, I have a pretty big list of short stories and ideas that I can go back on that would probably be better anyway. More original too.

I think I was so upset because I was genuinely feeling like this was a sell-able novel but more than that, I was really getting a pretty good feel for the characters. I really started liking them. I think with a little tweaking, I can make a good separation from other similar stories but at this point, I definitely don't feel so invested in it as I did before.

I guess the biggest question now is do I make some serious edits and continue the story, or do I drop it and start something else? Because it was a NaNoWriMo novel, I did next to no prep work. Because of that, I already had my mind on future stories, some continuing on what I wrote, some that were completely new. As much as I enjoyed writing it, I'm not so against dropping it now than I was a few hours ago.

My wife will hate me though. She was really enjoying it.

It has been said that all the great stories have already been written. And you know what? That's no problem at all! I mean, as long as it is not a complete rip-off, having similarities with other stories is inevitable.

I'll tell you something: I've written a book, but I'm feeling it might fail exactly because it doesn't have many similarities with any story I've seen before. It doesn't have a romance, not a lot of personal dramas, the story is told by many different characters and points of view... It's heavily focused on a concept, and the characters are just there to orbit around this concept. I don't know, I feel that because I'm using a concept that I believe is original, I can't help but think that it is a weird story, and people won't feel connected with it. I have some friends currently reading it, so I'm waiting for their feedback. It's not a good feeling to know that I've spent years working on this book on my spare time, depressed and working on a job I hate instead of looking for ways to heal and improve myself, and when I'm finally finishing it, I feel it will fail because of the lack of a human side on it.

Also, you have a wonderful wife!

I can only tell you it's a long loopy journey. I thought I really hated this job that I just quit, but I recently found an old journal of mine and to my shock, I was actually more depressed in my 20's than I was at my current job. Makes me realize a few things: 1. I probably suffer from dysthymia with occational intense bouts of depression. 2. I've never liked a single job I've had. All the jobs I liked, I liked because of the people there. 3. I could have been writing a long time ago if I had the right support from the right people.

It was kind of an epiphany when my wife suggested writing as a career. For whatever reason, I had it in my mind (probably because of my parents), that writing, like any "artist" like an actor or painter, wasn't a real job. You were destined to be starving and living out of a van unless you were one of the lucky 1% that found success. It was much more practical to pick a degree that was useful, something that would give you a job right out of college. This advice hasn't stopped. When I told people I wanted to get a Physics degree if I go back to school in the fall of '17, they tell me the same thing, not many job prospects, narrow path, etc.

Anyway, I realize I'm getting away from what I want to say. Don't give up. Work that shit job only for as long as you have to, but finish that story and publish it. You have to think of it this way; it may never be the next great novel, but what if 1,000 people read it and love it? What if 200,000 people read it? Even with a small following, you could conceivably earn enough to quit your shitty job and write more and full time. Your next story won't take so long because you're not wasting your time at a job you hate.

And you know what? Who cares if it doesn't have romance or personal dramas? I'm kind of sick of that being shoe-horned into everything anyway for the lowest common denominator.

Sorry about the long reply. What you said just hit close to home I guess. I've been there, still am there, sorta. I wish you the best of luck.
 
The harsh reality is nobody will point out the similarities of a finished book... because they will probably not read it. Pointing out flaws in a taster or an idea on the otherhand is easy and a favourite pass time of many people. Anything they can do to stop you achieving their failed goals is well worth their time. Actually putting in work once you have achieved their goal is not.

Just write what you want to write, it'll be fine. Even if it is 99% the same as something else that 1% makes it special and that 1% makes it yours.

There is always a reason or doubt. Always, always finish it.
 
The harsh reality is nobody will point out the similarities of a finished book... because they will probably not read it. Pointing out flaws in a taster or an idea on the otherhand is easy and a favourite pass time of many people. Anything they can do to stop you achieving their failed goals is well worth their time. Actually putting in work once you have achieved their goal is not.

Just write what you want to write, it'll be fine. Even if it is 99% the same as something else that 1% makes it special and that 1% makes it yours.

There is always a reason or doubt. Always, always finish it.


^This. Why are you guys stressing at this stage? Nothing has happened yet. All these worries and doubts are just a conversation in your head, and if you feel defeated before you even get it out in the wild, it's a waste on all fronts. In some ways I wouldn't be surprised if it's a defense mechanism to keep from being finished because of that great fear we all share about being critiqued by others, but I'm pretty sure that everyone who's finished and/or put out a book feels at least a little like a fool the moment they hit that send or publish button. So write, and write what you want. Don't worry about what people might think before you've even finished the book because as Todd said, there will always be doubts. Just finish it.


So...you guys ready for the New Year's Resolution Challenge? :D
 
The harsh reality is nobody will point out the similarities of a finished book... because they will probably not read it. Pointing out flaws in a taster or an idea on the otherhand is easy and a favourite pass time of many people. Anything they can do to stop you achieving their failed goals is well worth their time. Actually putting in work once you have achieved their goal is not.

Just write what you want to write, it'll be fine. Even if it is 99% the same as something else that 1% makes it special and that 1% makes it yours.

There is always a reason or doubt. Always, always finish it.

^This. Why are you guys stressing at this stage? Nothing has happened yet. All these worries and doubts are just a conversation in your head, and if you feel defeated before you even get it out in the wild, it's a waste on all fronts. In some ways I wouldn't be surprised if it's a defense mechanism to keep from being finished because of that great fear we all share about being critiqued by others, but I'm pretty sure that everyone who's finished and/or put out a book feels at least a little like a fool the moment they hit that send or publish button. So write, and write what you want. Don't worry about what people might think before you've even finished the book because as Todd said, there will always be doubts. Just finish it.


So...you guys ready for the New Year's Resolution Challenge? :D

Spot on from both of you. Great responses.

And no, I'm not ready. I've barely written 30K words in 2 years and I've signed up to write 30K PER MONTH for the next three months.
 

DD

Member
The harsh reality is nobody will point out the similarities of a finished book... because they will probably not read it. Pointing out flaws in a taster or an idea on the otherhand is easy and a favourite pass time of many people. Anything they can do to stop you achieving their failed goals is well worth their time. Actually putting in work once you have achieved their goal is not.

Just write what you want to write, it'll be fine. Even if it is 99% the same as something else that 1% makes it special and that 1% makes it yours.

There is always a reason or doubt. Always, always finish it.
I can only tell you it's a long loopy journey. I thought I really hated this job that I just quit, but I recently found an old journal of mine and to my shock, I was actually more depressed in my 20's than I was at my current job. Makes me realize a few things: 1. I probably suffer from dysthymia with occational intense bouts of depression. 2. I've never liked a single job I've had. All the jobs I liked, I liked because of the people there. 3. I could have been writing a long time ago if I had the right support from the right people.

It was kind of an epiphany when my wife suggested writing as a career. For whatever reason, I had it in my mind (probably because of my parents), that writing, like any "artist" like an actor or painter, wasn't a real job. You were destined to be starving and living out of a van unless you were one of the lucky 1% that found success. It was much more practical to pick a degree that was useful, something that would give you a job right out of college. This advice hasn't stopped. When I told people I wanted to get a Physics degree if I go back to school in the fall of '17, they tell me the same thing, not many job prospects, narrow path, etc.

Anyway, I realize I'm getting away from what I want to say. Don't give up. Work that shit job only for as long as you have to, but finish that story and publish it. You have to think of it this way; it may never be the next great novel, but what if 1,000 people read it and love it? What if 200,000 people read it? Even with a small following, you could conceivably earn enough to quit your shitty job and write more and full time. Your next story won't take so long because you're not wasting your time at a job you hate.

And you know what? Who cares if it doesn't have romance or personal dramas? I'm kind of sick of that being shoe-horned into everything anyway for the lowest common denominator.

Sorry about the long reply. What you said just hit close to home I guess. I've been there, still am there, sorta. I wish you the best of luck.

I'm just saying that because my favorite books are the ones you really dive in its universe and characters, and I feel that my book is really poor in that area. The story happens a little bit in the state of New York, the ending is in the deserts of Nevada (edit: a little bit in China, Russia and Hell), but it starts and most of it happens in Tokyo. And being a Brazilian that have never left this country, I feel that I'm not doing a good job describing these places as I should. Sure Google, Google Earth and Wikipedia helped me with that.

And then there's the characters. The main character is the whole mystery, even for herself. She doesn't know who, and where, and what she is. She almost have no lines, so the story is basically told by the guys trying to capture her (including non human beings), and her only friend, an intelligent robotic rabbit doll that is there to explain her the stuff she needs, and to be the only thing she cares about. So there are not many emotions flowing, and the ever changing point of view makes me think that it will be hard to connect with the characters.

It's a story about science, faith and religions (dangerous mixture, I know), and despite happening only on earth, the core is based on advanced physics and astronomy. I had to create a character that is an astrophysicist, so she only appears to explain stuff ranging from Theodor Kaluza, Alan Guth and the Big Bang, Albert Einstein and general relativity, quantum theory and even strings theory, the multiverse theory, etc. Then she disappears. And I did that because that's what I wanted to talk about. I created a 80k+ words story just because I wanted to talk about the stuff I like. So now I have this feeling that I got so focused in this core, on things that happens on the edge of our universe (even though the story happens only on the Earth) that I've forgot to add the human elements. And the core of it is so nerdy that I think people might look at it and say "what the fuck is this dude talking about?"




^This. Why are you guys stressing at this stage? Nothing has happened yet. All these worries and doubts are just a conversation in your head, and if you feel defeated before you even get it out in the wild, it's a waste on all fronts. In some ways I wouldn't be surprised if it's a defense mechanism to keep from being finished because of that great fear we all share about being critiqued by others, but I'm pretty sure that everyone who's finished and/or put out a book feels at least a little like a fool the moment they hit that send or publish button. So write, and write what you want. Don't worry about what people might think before you've even finished the book because as Todd said, there will always be doubts. Just finish it.


So...you guys ready for the New Year's Resolution Challenge? :D

Mostly because of the insecurities that come when we are searching for our dreams when the world screams "get a boring job that pays the bills, get married and have children". Add to that the fact that here in Brazil, people don't read that much. I actually started reading when I was 26 or 27, when the fire of the writing started burning on my chest (it's a weird story), which is ridiculous because you can't possibly think about writing if you don't read. I'm a book worm now, but I didn't read when I was younger, unless I was obliged to by the school, and this is something I feel that is dragging me down. Things should be easier to put on the paper if I had more hours of flight with literature. Add all these insecurities to the fact that I'm always reading and listening in podcasts how hard is to be taken by a publisher (yeah, I can self publish it as an e-book, but this technology is finding a hard time trying to penetrate this market), and that you need to make your name out into the world before you reach a publisher, while I think I'm the most boring human being on Earth. :p
 

DD

Member
Honestly that bugs the shit out of me too. I'll be explaining some new thing I'm working on that I think is really cool, and the person I'm talking to goes "oh it sounds just like xyz." Sucks all the air out of it for me.

What I've tried is just asking people not to do that. Which sort of works, but it's a natural urge for people to draw patterns between things, to notice similarities and remark on them. I think it's usually not intended as a slight on your creativity or anything. Probably they don't even realize it's being taken that way.

I dunno. Let me know if you find a solution to this problem. :p

I don't know, I think that the best thing to do is simply not tell anyone. I have a feeling that every time I try to tell a story, it sounds absolutely worse coming from my mouth. I think you have to decide for yourself if the story is worthy of your time, and don't depend of other people's opinions (of course that having beta readers is a completely different thing).
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
I don't know, I think that the best thing to do is simply not tell anyone. I have a feeling that every time I try to tell a story, it sounds absolutely worse coming from my mouth. I think you have to decide for yourself if the story is worthy of your time, and don't depend of other people's opinions (of course that having beta readers is a completely different thing).

Yeah, I tend to have a tough time describing stories. I've been referring to one as "the miscarriage one" and I've been getting weird responses to it from friends even though it's not really about miscarriages. It's just kind of the central event in the MC's past. Conversely, I've been describing another story by its central motif, "What happens when something holy rots?" and people have really latched on to that a lot more. I think there is a real art to describing something well, and I've been slowly figuring out the nuances.

Please no one steal my ideas :<
 

Jintor

Member
Yeah, I tend to have a tough time describing stories. I've been referring to one as "the miscarriage one" and I've been getting weird responses to it from friends even though it's not really about miscarriages. It's just kind of the central event in the MC's past. Conversely, I've been describing another story by its central motif, "What happens when something holy rots?" and people have really latched on to that a lot more. I think there is a real art to describing something well, and I've been slowly figuring out the nuances.

See, that's a fucking evocative sentence right out the gate

i feel like this story has trapped me because i'm writing a mystery but i have no fucking idea how to write mysteries and whenever i do i keep losing track of the themes... like I'm gonna be spending a month just outlining. But maybe that's a month worth spending, because for me, if I have a goal in mind the words tend to just flow. I think.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Outlining is a pretty good idea and good mysteries are fucking hard to do. Unless you have all the details exact in your mind, I find mysteries can kind of fall apart as you write them. Maybe also try a timeline of the events around the mystery to help keep track of things?
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
So I finally gotten round to working on my new project and finished up chapter 1 and currently working on chapter 2.

So far it the process feels smoother probably because this project is a 1 book deal rather than a series and I am just writing with the flow with the intention of going back to edit the chapters after getting feedback.

I am hoping that I can finish up the first draft around March and then begin the editing process to get the book up to standard that I want it to be.
 

Jintor

Member
Outlining is a pretty good idea and good mysteries are fucking hard to do. Unless you have all the details exact in your mind, I find mysteries can kind of fall apart as you write them. Maybe also try a timeline of the events around the mystery to help keep track of things?

yeah i'm also banging my head against a wall because I don't have a good idea in my head what this novel is about

I've got a premise, i've got a cast, characters, locations, but I've redone the plot about five or six times now, the mystery has changed, and i feel like the whole thing is because i don't have a good grasp on what the book is about.

I guess I'm going to be working on that for a while
 
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