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[ChoosableOne]

Found that out the hard way

That's what I get for leaving it in the corner whilst I play everything else..

You can still use Windows 10 without activation. It's free.

So what specs is your PC?

First gen I5 750 2.8 ghz, 6gb 1333mhz ddr3 ram, 1gb? Radeon 6870 hd. Your cpu is overkill for indies lol.

 

[HL3.exe]

Some people say the PS360 CPUs were actually stronger in some instances, who knows if that is true or not though (it's not like we can run benchmarks).

This is true for a very specific situation. Sony's CELL processor still has some best in class single-thread performance gains over the competition, but to get to that juice you'll have to abandon all common methods and get into nitty gritty mathematical solutions, with isn't very practical for common game dev studios to invest in, as most engines and memory management solutions are built around x86.

@10:09

Edit: it was weird that the 7th gen was way more impressive from a CPU standpoint, than the GPU. It could be that's why more games at that time focused on more reactive physics and interactive environments. GTA IV for instance was such an impressive leap from a reactivity and simulation fidelity standpoint compared to San Andreas. The CPU leap was nuts, especially compared to current consoles. (My 9 year old high-end CPU is still almost on par performance wise with the PS5XBOX SoC, which is crazy).

 

[Topher]

You can still use Windows 10 without activation. It's free.



First gen I5 750 2.8 ghz, 6gb 1333mhz ddr3 ram, 1gb? Radeon 6870 hd. Your cpu is overkill for indies lol.

Yeah, I'm going to push it and see how far up the gaming food chain I can take it. Learn some more linux along the way. Should be fun.

 

[Zathalus]

If you're only looking for games that are "deck verified" then you're doing it wrong. The vast majority of games will work without issue even without that verified tag.

What games do you think won't work?



Depends on which games you're talking about.

Then there's the fact that generally using the OS on Linux is far easier/smoother on lower end hardware than it is on Windows.

A lot of these gains are due to targeted optimizations at the deck due to Steam having full control over the OS as well as numerous driver level optimizations. You certainly don't get these kind of boosts on a regular PC.

 

[GHG]

A lot of these gains are due to targeted optimizations at the deck due to Steam having full control over the OS as well as numerous driver level optimizations. You certainly don't get these kind of boosts on a regular PC.

What do you think is going on when Nvidia and AMD release driver updates with specific optimisations/improvements for certain titles (or even across the board for a specific GPU)?

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Consoles keep PC gaming relatively cheap. Imagine if neogaf got it's wish and developers made games for 4090 GPUs and Ryzen 9 CPUs.

 

[Zathalus]

What do you think is going on when Nvidia and AMD release driver updates with specific optimisations/improvements for certain titles (or even across the board for a specific GPU)?

It's not nearly the same, Valve has complete control over the hardware and OS. It's one of the reasons shader compilation stutter can be solved on the deck, Valve can precompile them and push them down to a Steam Deck. You simply cannot do the same with the variable hardware configurations of a a regular PC. For the same reason a console like the PS5 can have a closer to the metal API, DX12 and Vulkan still have to deal with hardware abstraction to deal with the variability inherit to regular PC gaming.

You simply do not get the same performance benefits with regular gaming. Some titles might be slightly faster, but often times Windows gets the win. This goes for native Linux games as well. That being said Linux does have an advantage with better CPU utilization and scheduling so for those type of bottlenecks Linux can offer a small advantage, but once you get GPU limited Windows usually wins.

 

[Crayon]

The existance of yet another two forks is the reason why Linux and gaming will continue to have a hard time.
Never heard of either and why do they even exist? Having the two major forks, debian/redhat is already stupid for a rather small niche platform (outside of the server stuff), but building fork after fork after fork for every fucking purpose kills Linux for mainstream. There are a gazillion variants and maybe only Ubuntu can be recommended to average users because it has some beyond terminal install support in some instances outside of gaming the latter might work much better with steam. Building a distribution seems to be too easy, since every idiot seems to make one. smh
Valve flipflopping in what they choose as their foundation shows that even on that level more than one thing seems to be possible and it is hard to decide which is better. Everyone doing a little work here and there but universal code barely possible and much work is seemingly done for almost no one. Wasn't that a critique to Ubuntu, them doing stuff incompatible with the rest? Forks might not do anything just tinker with the optics. Pure bullshit. Thinking a gaming OS is even required is weird, make a gaming mode for Ubuntu, should be the course of action, which might in essence be the very same thing, but wouldn't be confusing af.

This was an issue long, long ago. It was identified as a major thing to tackle for distros intended for desktop and it's done. You would have to give someone an intentional bum steer to end up on a distro with compatibility issues. Everything that comes up in these kind of conversations will be fine.

I'd look more closely at the capabilities of whoever is maintaining a distro when choosing. Ubuntu, mint, arch, pop, etc are going to show no more than superficial differences to a new user.

I'd suggest using Windows, not because I like Windows but because it's the lesser evil in terms of hassle. Linux isn't something most people should be using, there are no real benefits and lots of drawbacks.

I agree that most people should not be using it but it's possible to simply like it better. That's why people use Mac's. They like it better and don't get put on the spot to explain why so often.

Linux is a hassle when you are in an intermediate phase where you know enough to fuck things up. For grandmas and actual skilled users it's just as often easier.

 

[Crayon]

It's not nearly the same, Valve has complete control over the hardware and OS. It's one of the reasons shader compilation stutter can be solved on the deck, Valve can precompile them and push them down to a Steam Deck. You simply cannot do the same with the variable hardware configurations of a a regular PC. For the same reason a console like the PS5 can have a closer to the metal API, DX12 and Vulkan still have to deal with hardware abstraction to deal with the variability inherit to regular PC gaming.

You simply do not get the same performance benefits with regular gaming. Some titles might be slightly faster, but often times Windows gets the win. This goes for native Linux games as well. That being said Linux does have an advantage with better CPU utilization and scheduling so for those type of bottlenecks Linux can offer a small advantage, but once you get GPU limited Windows usually wins.

The special optimizations usually come at the proton layer. The amd driver also does better than the Nvidia one because it's open source.

Your shader comp stutter will be mitigated or fixed with any desktop Linux. Elden ring was way better on "the deck" at the same time it was on any Linux. Have to ask where you are getting this info.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Sure, if they work.

I just checked my Steam Library for compatibility with the Deck and of over 200 games, going back 20yrs, only 35 were listed as fully compatible.

..and the older the games, the less compatible they were.

Most will work, steam classifies games unsupported on deck for trivial stuff like having to use the touchscreen to click a few things on boot.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Found that out the hard way

That's what I get for leaving it in the corner whilst I play everything else..

Just install a free version of windows 10, doesnt matter if you dont have a license. Yeah you wont be able to customize your desktop but who cares

 

[Zathalus]

The special optimizations usually come at the proton layer. The amd driver also does better than the Nvidia one because it's open source.

Your shader comp stutter will help mitigated or fixed with any desktop Linux. Elden ring was way better on "the deck" at the same time it was on any Linux. Have to ask where you are getting this info.

How Valve fixed Elden Ring on Steam Deck

One of the most intriguing stories to emerge from the launch of Steam Deck was the news that Valve leveraged their Linu…

www.eurogamer.net

You get some stutter fixes via proton but as Valve themselves said:

"since we have a unique GPU/driver combination to target, and the majority of the shaders that you run locally are actually pre-built on servers in our infrastructure"

Elsen Ring patches also assisted in getting some stuttering addressed, but having a known exact GPU/CPU/OS target to address helped out.

 

[Shakka43]

Sure, if they work.

I just checked my Steam Library for compatibility with the Deck and of over 200 games, going back 20yrs, only 35 were listed as fully compatible.

..and the older the games, the less compatible they were.

I have played more non "verified" games than I have played verified ones and aside from some(fixable )controller binding issues from time to time they all play great.

 

[ChoosableOne]

Learn some more linux along the way

That's the best part of this path. Good luck, it's a little rocky road Check out the "popular" OT about Linux gaming too.

 

[Topher]

That's the best part of this path. Good luck, it's a little rocky road Check out the "popular" OT about Linux gaming too.

lol....definitely a different way of thinking. I've gotten pretty familiar with "sudo pacman" so far. lol

 

[GHG]

It's not nearly the same, Valve has complete control over the hardware and OS. It's one of the reasons shader compilation stutter can be solved on the deck, Valve can precompile them and push them down to a Steam Deck. You simply cannot do the same with the variable hardware configurations of a a regular PC. For the same reason a console like the PS5 can have a closer to the metal API, DX12 and Vulkan still have to deal with hardware abstraction to deal with the variability inherit to regular PC gaming.

You simply do not get the same performance benefits with regular gaming. Some titles might be slightly faster, but often times Windows gets the win. This goes for native Linux games as well. That being said Linux does have an advantage with better CPU utilization and scheduling so for those type of bottlenecks Linux can offer a small advantage, but once you get GPU limited Windows usually wins.

The shader stutter issue being solved isn't something exclusive to the deck. You're misunderstanding the way that Linux works in the background - shaders will always be pre-compiled, valve or no valve.

The only time I'd say lower end hardware wouldn't benefit from running Linux is where the person is using an Nvidia GPU.

 

[Crayon]

How Valve fixed Elden Ring on Steam Deck

One of the most intriguing stories to emerge from the launch of Steam Deck was the news that Valve leveraged their Linu…

www.eurogamer.net

You get some stutter fixes via proton but as Valve themselves said:

"since we have a unique GPU/driver combination to target, and the majority of the shaders that you run locally are actually pre-built on servers in our infrastructure"

Elsen Ring patches also assisted in getting some stuttering addressed, but having a known exact GPU/CPU/OS target to address helped out.

That's because they have a deck there to fossilize but maybe it's not what you think. Steam on any Linux can go in and force a precomp of the shaders which is what cuts the stutter.

In theory, after a user does a shader precomp on their PC, it would upload those and other users, presumably with the exact same system, can download that automatically and skip it. In reality you almost always do it yourself.

So that's the only difference with what's happening on deck there. You still get the forced precomp on any Linux and the stuttering is mitigated or eliminated. And it has absolutely nothing to do with getting closer to the metal or anything like that.

Edit: beaten like an old rug by GHG

 

[Zathalus]

The shader stutter issue being solved isn't something exclusive to the deck. You're misunderstanding the way that Linux works in the background - shaders will always be pre-compiled, valve or no valve.

The only time I'd say lower end hardware wouldn't benefit from running Linux is where the person is using an Nvidia GPU.

If this was true Valve would have no need to create them on their own servers and push them to Steam Deck Users.

The shader stuttering fix on Linux is for DX9 - DX11 games, DX12 or Vulkan will have the same shader stutter issue on both (assuming the game does not precompile or use proper PSO). A lot is users seems to think since the stutter issues that plagued pre-DX12 games on Linux has been fixed this now magically applies to DX12 as well. It does not. If the game is broken on Windows, it is broken in Linux, unless you have a magic bullet like a specific hardware target and can have Valve build and deploy the shaders for you.

DXVK 2.0 released, aiming to minimize shader compilation stutters in DX11 games

The key feature of DXVK 2.0 is its shader compilation changes which aim to minimize the shader compilation stutters in DX11 games.

www.dsogaming.com

RADV Driver Enables Graphics Pipeline Library Support By Default - Phoronix Forums

Phoronix: RADV Driver Enables Graphics Pipeline Library Support By Default In time for the upcoming Mesa 23.1 branching and feature freeze, Samuel Pitoiset of Valve's Linux graphics driver team has enabled the graphics pipeline library "GPL" support by default with the Radeon RADV Vulkan...

www.phoronix.com

Borderlands 3 stuttering · Issue #3561 · doitsujin/dxvk

Guys, I'm trying, really trying but I don't know what more to do, I mean I know but.. The only way to stop the game from stuttering Is to use dxvk_async version. I tried normal dxvk all the way fro...

github.com

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Old computers are still good. I build myself a second pc mainly for World of Warcraft and other older games. Cost me under 100 Euro. Ryzen 2600x + 16GB Ram + GTX 970. I'm always surprised what games it is capable of.

Where the heck did you get all of that for under 100?

 

[Edmund]

Damn. Your pc is older than my grandpa.

 

[Crayon]

If this was true Valve would have no need to create them on their own servers and push them to Steam Deck Users.

The shader stuttering fix on Linux is for DX9 - DX11 games, DX12 or Vulkan will have the same shader stutter issue on both (assuming the game does not precompile or use proper PSO). A lot is users seems to think since the stutter issues that plagued pre-DX12 games on Linux has been fixed this now magically applies to DX12 as well. It does not. If the game is broken on Windows, it is broken in Linux, unless you have a magic bullet like a specific hardware target and can have Valve build and deploy the shaders for you.

DXVK 2.0 released, aiming to minimize shader compilation stutters in DX11 games

The key feature of DXVK 2.0 is its shader compilation changes which aim to minimize the shader compilation stutters in DX11 games.

www.dsogaming.com

RADV Driver Enables Graphics Pipeline Library Support By Default - Phoronix Forums

Phoronix: RADV Driver Enables Graphics Pipeline Library Support By Default In time for the upcoming Mesa 23.1 branching and feature freeze, Samuel Pitoiset of Valve's Linux graphics driver team has enabled the graphics pipeline library "GPL" support by default with the Radeon RADV Vulkan...

www.phoronix.com

Borderlands 3 stuttering · Issue #3561 · doitsujin/dxvk

Guys, I'm trying, really trying but I don't know what more to do, I mean I know but.. The only way to stop the game from stuttering Is to use dxvk_async version. I tried normal dxvk all the way fro...

github.com

Thanks, that all looks like good info. At least at a skim... I'm at work. I'll have to look into it because when I play DX12 games, steam does the precomile like any other and I don't get stutters. I kinda don't want to buy and refund a game just to test it but maybe it would be worth it for science to try something specific like elden ring.

 

[GHG]

If this was true Valve would have no need to create them on their own servers and push them to Steam Deck Users.

The shader stuttering fix on Linux is for DX9 - DX11 games, DX12 or Vulkan will have the same shader stutter issue on both (assuming the game does not precompile or use proper PSO). A lot is users seems to think since the stutter issues that plagued pre-DX12 games on Linux has been fixed this now magically applies to DX12 as well. It does not. If the game is broken on Windows, it is broken in Linux, unless you have a magic bullet like a specific hardware target and can have Valve build and deploy the shaders for you.

DXVK 2.0 released, aiming to minimize shader compilation stutters in DX11 games

The key feature of DXVK 2.0 is its shader compilation changes which aim to minimize the shader compilation stutters in DX11 games.

www.dsogaming.com

RADV Driver Enables Graphics Pipeline Library Support By Default - Phoronix Forums

Phoronix: RADV Driver Enables Graphics Pipeline Library Support By Default In time for the upcoming Mesa 23.1 branching and feature freeze, Samuel Pitoiset of Valve's Linux graphics driver team has enabled the graphics pipeline library "GPL" support by default with the Radeon RADV Vulkan...

www.phoronix.com

Borderlands 3 stuttering · Issue #3561 · doitsujin/dxvk

Guys, I'm trying, really trying but I don't know what more to do, I mean I know but.. The only way to stop the game from stuttering Is to use dxvk_async version. I tried normal dxvk all the way fro...

github.com

If you're not on SteamOS you can download the shader caches from a public source yourself.

https://www.protondb.com/help/improving-performance

All Valve have done is streamline this process into the OS for deck users - it literally downloads the shader cache before the game when you're in the process of installing a game.

It's not about "magic bullets", it's about utilising Proton and the Linux environment in the way it was intended.

By the way, I'm not blaming the average user for not being aware that avenues for them to easily download shader caches for their games. This is something that needs to be baked into gaming focused Linux distros ASAP so that the whole process is streamlined for everyone.

 

[mrmustard]

Where the heck did you get all of that for under 100?

Got it used on something like Craigs list. Paid for the pc with a 1050 2GB 100 Euro, sold the 1050 for 50 Euro, the 1TB SATA for 15 Euro and the not so good 16GB Ram for 20. Then i got a 970 for 35. a SSD for 15 (new) and better Ram for 30 (new) and that's it.

 

[Kikorin]

I was very surprised too when I finally started Death Stranding this week and it worked locked 60fps at max settings with my GTX1080 (don't remember my CPU).

 

[ChoosableOne]

lol....definitely a different way of thinking. I've gotten pretty familiar with "sudo pacman" so far. lol

Sudo is "pretty cool right" It's like "hello world" on steroids.

 

[Zathalus]

If you're not on SteamOS you can download the shader caches from a public source yourself.

https://www.protondb.com/help/improving-performance

All Valve have done is streamline this process into the OS for deck users - it literally downloads the shader cache before the game when you're in the process of installing a game.

It's not about "magic bullets", it's about utilising Proton and the Linux environment in the way it was intended.

By the way, I'm not blaming the average user for not being aware that avenues for them to easily download shader caches for their games. This is something that needs to be baked into gaming focused Linux distros ASAP so that the whole process is streamlined for everyone.

Yes, that was created to solve the issues Linux had with shader related stutter. It does not have any effect on the specific shader compilation issue DX12 games face. Even in the linked benchmark test, none of the games have any stutter issues on Windows:

Benchmarks of 2019-06-14 to 2019-06-17

Benchmarks of 2019-06-14 to 2019-06-17. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.

gist.github.com

Stuttering was a severe issue Linux gaming had, even when that game did not stutter on Windows. All this effort has been to address that. Games like Path of Exile used to be a stutter mess on Linux, now it isn't. Jedi Survivor will still face some shader stutter issues on Linux, this doesn't fix that. DX11 shader issues fixed (as in fixed to be on par with Windows) DX12 issues are not fixed (at least not with the same hardware setup to use the precompiled shaders). DX11 vs DX12 shader stutter is fundamentally not the same thing.





Just go ask on r/linux_gaming if DX12 (and Vulkan) specific shader issues are fixed on Linux.