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wtf is this shit about burnout3. is it true??
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The Faceless Master
Member
so does that mean in PAL60 you can play against NTSC people, or are you assout and stuck vs only other PAL60ers?
I may not be a deep expert into video timing and so on, but like I said, I have no idea how it would be a problem since the consoles are only trading positions on the maps and so on, and that should be pretty independant on the video format displayed
Unless Criterion did some strange stuff. And I guess thats what happened
Unless Criterion did some strange stuff. And I guess thats what happened
Shogmaster
Member
I fucking play with German and British CS players (on their servers no less) all the time on XBox live. This don't make much sense to me.
My PS2 NTSC version says:
"You may see European players using a different television standard, you wont be able to join these games"
Maybe there is a 50/60Hz option in the PAL version that would allow to pla with those that set the mode to 60hz? I really hope so, 'cos otherwise I don't' see what this statement means "The game is playable with players from around the world".
"You may see European players using a different television standard, you wont be able to join these games"
Maybe there is a 50/60Hz option in the PAL version that would allow to pla with those that set the mode to 60hz? I really hope so, 'cos otherwise I don't' see what this statement means "The game is playable with players from around the world".
I don't fully understand the reason why you can't play across different TV standards but every single Live game I have plays perfectly with anyone in the US (I'm in the UK). I'd also imagine that most if not all Live users are using PAL 60 anyway, and to be honest you'd have to have a really old set that didn't support 60hz, even my cheap £50 portable works fine on 60 hz as does a 10 yr old 20inch set I found in work. Seriously most gamers in Europe should be using PAL 60.
This suggests that some of the underlying game logic or network code has a dependency on framerate or refresh-rate..which to be honest, is just really really bad engineering. I'm very surprised given that this is Criterion (home of Renderware etc.). I mean, one of the major rules of good design is to seperate components as much as possible..the video output should be totally independent of the network code and game logic. Unless I'm missing something (and I could well be, but given the number of games that don't have this problem, I doubt it).
eso76
Member
That's probably because the code is not optimized for 50hz at all, meaning the game is just the same as the ntsc version, only running at a lower refresh rate and therefore moving slower; this would be an abvious disadvantage for PAL50 users playing against 60hz users.
But i can assure you, 97% of xbox european users play in PAL60, so that's not going to be a major problem anyway.
But i can assure you, 97% of xbox european users play in PAL60, so that's not going to be a major problem anyway.
Yah, even Zelda WW was released in 60hz only, never heard _anything_ about that, so that more or less proves it.eso76 said:Only because there's like a 0.1% of TV's here which were built in the 19th century and don't support 60hz.
Oh, and because Halo Pal runs much better in pal50
radioheadrule83
Banned
Interesting. I think running a 60hz game and displaying it at 50hz would look bad, it wouldn't look as good as an optimised product anyway - it would be kinda jerky probably. Theres a reason Freeloader on the Gamecube only outputs US/JPN games at 60hz..
With regard to this game - when there's PAL60 I can't see the excuse... there are a few more lines of resolution but every console out right now is capable of it, and many modern TVs are capable of displaying it. Maybe the games are different in some way? If the packets that the PAL game sends are basically different from those the NTSC game sends, it simply wouldn't work. That's the only reason I could think of.
Wind Waker runs in 50hz too. It's the Ocarina of Time Master Quest disc that's 60hz only
With regard to this game - when there's PAL60 I can't see the excuse... there are a few more lines of resolution but every console out right now is capable of it, and many modern TVs are capable of displaying it. Maybe the games are different in some way? If the packets that the PAL game sends are basically different from those the NTSC game sends, it simply wouldn't work. That's the only reason I could think of.
Drexon said:
Wind Waker runs in 50hz too. It's the Ocarina of Time Master Quest disc that's 60hz only
Rabid Wolverine
Member
Sega had the same policy for Pal users for the 2K4 Sports Series.
Hopefully Outrun 2 wont have this shit.
Hopefully Outrun 2 wont have this shit.
SpoonyBard
Banned
thorns said:
PAL-60 has NTSC resolution, only PAL colour encoding.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Miburou said:
Nope, you can't have PAL resolution with 60Hz, only with 50Hz.
DJ Demon J
Banned
Ha, you Euros need to get rid of that crazy standard.
eso76
Member
Little do you know about the suffering in being a pal gamer...
Before the Godly Dreamcast was launched, PAL users always had to settle for 50 hz games. Well, in exchange for the lower refresh rate, PAL granted a slightly better vertical resolution...
Problem was; when porting games from ntsc (jap or us) standards to Pal with no optimization, the following things happened:
1) due to the slightly higher res, the same amount of pixels which would fit the entire height of the screen in ntsc, would fit a 'shorter' vertical area in pal. Therefore making characters shrink and look fat and leaving 2 rather large black areas above and underneath the "gaming screen". You'd play game in letterbox, basically, and with wrong geometry.
2) Lazy ports didn't take into consideration correct 'timing' but only 'frames'. In other words: Let's say it takes 60 frames to throw a punch in the ntsc version of Tekken 2 (which was actually one shitty port for us pals). In the pal version, your character still needed the same 60 frames of animation to complete the movement. Obviously, while it took the ntsc version one second to display the movement, the pal version would take 1 full second PLUS another 1/5 of a second (10 frames). 1"20 if you prefer. A whole 18.5% slower, and that's a lot.
Shit like this still happens; Anyone who experienced playing as a short, fat Dante in a very slow Devil May Cry knows far too well...
Dreamcast was a Godsend, as it was the first console to allow pal gamers to display games in ntsc resolution at 60hz. Xbox and, to a slightly lesser extent, Nintendo Gamecube followed it's footprints, while Ps2 still has quite a few shitty pal ports.
I'm guessing this is what happened to Pal Burnout 3; the game just runs slower when displayed at 50hz, and that's why it wouldn't be fair to let 50hz'ers and 60hz'ers compete against each other. Not that it's a major problem anyway; 98% of pal xbox owners play in PAL60 anyway, and i think they will be able to compete with ntsc users.
Before the Godly Dreamcast was launched, PAL users always had to settle for 50 hz games. Well, in exchange for the lower refresh rate, PAL granted a slightly better vertical resolution...
Problem was; when porting games from ntsc (jap or us) standards to Pal with no optimization, the following things happened:
1) due to the slightly higher res, the same amount of pixels which would fit the entire height of the screen in ntsc, would fit a 'shorter' vertical area in pal. Therefore making characters shrink and look fat and leaving 2 rather large black areas above and underneath the "gaming screen". You'd play game in letterbox, basically, and with wrong geometry.
2) Lazy ports didn't take into consideration correct 'timing' but only 'frames'. In other words: Let's say it takes 60 frames to throw a punch in the ntsc version of Tekken 2 (which was actually one shitty port for us pals). In the pal version, your character still needed the same 60 frames of animation to complete the movement. Obviously, while it took the ntsc version one second to display the movement, the pal version would take 1 full second PLUS another 1/5 of a second (10 frames). 1"20 if you prefer. A whole 18.5% slower, and that's a lot.
Shit like this still happens; Anyone who experienced playing as a short, fat Dante in a very slow Devil May Cry knows far too well...
Dreamcast was a Godsend, as it was the first console to allow pal gamers to display games in ntsc resolution at 60hz. Xbox and, to a slightly lesser extent, Nintendo Gamecube followed it's footprints, while Ps2 still has quite a few shitty pal ports.
I'm guessing this is what happened to Pal Burnout 3; the game just runs slower when displayed at 50hz, and that's why it wouldn't be fair to let 50hz'ers and 60hz'ers compete against each other. Not that it's a major problem anyway; 98% of pal xbox owners play in PAL60 anyway, and i think they will be able to compete with ntsc users.