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WWE 2k17 Changes From 2k16 - No Showcase Mode
- Thread starter Hasney
- Start date
Net_Wrecker
Member
Most of the games everyone loves and cites as the standard which Yukes/2K still can't reach are pro wrestling simulators. AKI's N64 games, Fire Pro, King of Colosseum; these are all titles that attempted to replicate match flow, limb damage, stamina, fighting styles, timing based reversals, etc. I don't understand the thread's reaction to that statement.
Unless you want, like, Midway style games or WWE All Stars 2, which is....fine, I guess.
The more confusing part of that statement is the fact that the mainline WWE games haven't been arcadey for a long time, so I don't know what they're trying to say.
Eh, I wouldn't call No Mercy a sim, that and DoR straddled the line and barely anyone calls for the game to be like Fire Pro or KoC because they (unfortunately) haven't played them. But unless they have massively changed the grappling system to have a complexity like KOC, all they probably mean is that they've slowed it down.
Net_Wrecker
Member
How is No Mercy not a sim? Stamina, realistic pacing, realistic animations, limb targeting and damage (to the point that your movement animations change), KO state, weight detection, weak grapple/strong grapple match build, etc. You even take major damage when you miss top rope moves. If No Mercy isn't a wrestling sim, what is it?
And DoR only straddled the line because the details were lacking. The reversal system/animations were basic as hell, and fatigue played less of a role. Otherwise it feels like an attempt to copy what No Mercy was doing. Here Comes The Pain is a game straddling the line. It has an absurd amount of authentic animations, and a lot match types where you still need to win realistically, but plays like a never ending highlight reel, where every attack has been tuned to be the perfect oversold version of that particular maneuver, and fatigue doesn't exist.
Slowing the current WWE games down would make it even less sim, so I hope that's not what they mean. The animations are already too long winded and soft. There's no fluidity or snappiness to the games anymore, part of what makes them look robotic.
Host Samurai
Member
DoR was a noble attempt at No Mercy but don't fool yourself into thinking it was better. No Mercys gameplay was much tighter and fluid. Had better roster animations and CAW. DoR is like 2nd rate No Mercy.
Loved HCTP too, but better than No Mercy? Idk
I'd put No Mercy in the sim category as well. The 1st 2 Smackdown games were always more Arcady
Loved HCTP too, but better than No Mercy? Idk
I'd put No Mercy in the sim category as well. The 1st 2 Smackdown games were always more Arcady
They said online was overhauled last year and it ended up being the same with just a new interface. 2K changed that all for the worse, too. Lobbies had freedom and the ability to do whatever you wanted, but 2K is trying to make this a sports game instead.
BoboBrazil
Member
Probably because Yukes thinks being a sim means adding more horrible mini games to things like submissions or grapples. It will still have the same horrible gameplay, animations, sound effects, commentary, and selling of moves.
I'm British. By "riot", I mean "get slightly annoyed".
The Albatross
Member
Do people actually want this? Whenever I think of great wrestling games from years past they were typified by simplicity and strategy, not these complex control systems. I recently played through the Steve Austin showcase mode in 2k16, and it was so frustrating just trying to remember how to do these complex prompts like moving a guy towards the announce table, only to then be introduced with a quick time event... It's like I'd have to perform this complicated chain of nonsensical button presses, and then it introduces a ridiculously over-simplified QTE.
Wrestling games used to be the single most fun party games you could play. WWE 2K16 is so complex for a new person to pick up that you'd have to constantly pause the game to explain controls for various situations.
Showcase mode is something that I enjoy, but fulfilling the match criteria is needlessly annoying. When you need the CPU to do something in order for you to do something, it just sucks... Good example is the Royal Rumble match for Austin where there's 7 or 8 criteria to adequately beat the mode, one of which is hitting Kane with 3 chair shots... But what the gamr doesn't tell you is that the CPU Kane has to go outside the ring to get the chair, and so you basically play through this 10 minute match hoping that CPU Kane goes out and gets the chair. More often than not, he never goes out and gets it so you're stuck either waiting endlessly, or simply tossing him out when you get sit of waiting for Kane to try to get the chair.
These games are just terrible in every way.
At least with AKI's N64 wrestling games, it's not so much that they were simulators or arcadey, it's that they had simple systems to understand and almost anybody could learn the gameplay within a match or two, while people who played a lot understood the strategy of a match and how to win, which made the gameplay way more free-flowing and fun. You could have a 1 on 1 match with managers and everybody would feel involved in the match.
2K16 is impossible to pick up and play, and for professional wrestling that just doesn't make sense. It might make sense for a UFC or MMA game. It's also needlessly complex in the wrong ways. Pulling off your special move is very easy, you hit Y or Triangle. But pulling off a simple body slam is obtuse and way more complex than it needs to be, with grappling minigames and a revearsal engine that is difficult to learn and only introduces annoyances.
This super sim world is 2K's model. Same story for its NBA series. It has the exact same sluggish movement and responsiveness.
ambar_hitman
Member
If they don't remove that asinine submission system which was introduced in 2K16, then we can be sure that they just don't give a shit about fan feedback.
It has a new "secondary" submission system, whatever the fuck that is. And no idea what the primary one is going to be.
Host Samurai
Member
Would rather they change the submission and pin system back to mashing buttons
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
If they cared so much about "Realism", why can't they animate the wrestlers walking from behind the curtain?
Big Green Anus
Member
I just really need custom themes for this game. I always enjoyed giving Brock Lesnar Katamari Damacy music.
They better add custom entrance music. I don't care if it's patched in or what. But if other games are doing it, WWE damn well better.
Between lacking that and the rosters that probably won't be up to date, I might pass on buying at launch and wait for a major sale months later. It's always two steps forward and one step back with these games.
Between lacking that and the rosters that probably won't be up to date, I might pass on buying at launch and wait for a major sale months later. It's always two steps forward and one step back with these games.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
PhantomVash808
Member
Still no GM mode SMH
BoboBrazil
Member
Hit the nail on the head.
Great post. Mirrors my thoughts exactly.
IGN got a hands on
Really hope that "5 locations" just means for IN the ring, otherwise that makes things really limited.
Sounds ok with CPU stuff, maybe not so much with actual players.
Oh wow, THREE, don't strain yourself there Yukes. Hopefully they're decently sized.
I always turn this off anyway.
Maybe not the most elegant way to fix that issue, but I'll take it.
Really hope that "5 locations" just means for IN the ring, otherwise that makes things really limited.
Sounds ok with CPU stuff, maybe not so much with actual players.
Oh wow, THREE, don't strain yourself there Yukes. Hopefully they're decently sized.
I always turn this off anyway.
Maybe not the most elegant way to fix that issue, but I'll take it.
First post does it again. Yukes are some of the laziest developers in the industry and I'm through giving them my money.
Fuck the ladder match changes. Of they can't fix their physics, I'd rather have the jank than limiting options.
Agree about the multi man matches, will be good against the CPU but hopefully can be turned off for multiplayer.
OK, that I actually like. It acts like a proper momentum shift for you to try and take full advantage of.
Agree about the multi man matches, will be good against the CPU but hopefully can be turned off for multiplayer.
OK, that I actually like. It acts like a proper momentum shift for you to try and take full advantage of.
Yeah, the sliders are still there, but there are now different systems. So there's a limited amount of reversals (up to 5 depending on who you are) and a minor reversal costs one and a major reversal costs two, and are much harder but do more damage. The major reversals last year were pointless as they sdid more damage, but you'd rather keep the reversal bar and the minor reversal both came earlier and was more lenient.
Now if you hit a major, they cannot reverse for a limited amount of time, making it much more useful.
The Albatross
Member
Jesus this makes it sound even worse, especially the ladder stuff. Honestly, I don't think anybody has ever requested a fixed-position ladder... Like, part of the fun of ladder matches is that the ladder is zany. Is it frustrating to position it in the middle of the ring? Yeah, kind of, but the way to fix that isn't to give you just 5 places to put a ladder... Maybe introduce a snapping system, where when you place the ladder in the middle of the ring, beneath the belt, it "snaps" in place or moves itself over sightly to be beneath the belt instead of just off. Or, hell, make a more prominent belt "shadow" so that it's obvious you're placing the ladder right beneath the belt and not off to the side. There's a thousand things they can do to fix this very minor grievance than giving you only five locations to put a ladder.
I wish they remove limitations from the ladder matches... In older Smackdowns (I think SvR2007 or some of those games) you could suplex guys off of ladders outside the ring, through a table. It wasn't an "OMG" or a set spot, it was something that happened organically, usually via a visual glitch, but you used your imagination to think it was real and it made the game more organic.
Having only 5 ladder positions sounds terrible and like a feature noone would request.
Also I hate how they make the submission system either whatever 2K16 is or "back to button mashing," like as if there's no alternative or compromise to the ridiculous submission system for 2K16 and button mashing.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Would be nice if they made a remade Here comes the Pain with just the current roster and such.
Fix-It Felix. Jr.
Member
Ladder Match Overhaul - Honestly, I don't mind having fixed positions at all. There isn't much of a point in setting up a ladder anywhere else but directly in the middle of the ring, unless you're planning on making a big jump outside the ring, which you'll be able to do with the rope positions. This will makes things a lot more simple.
The Roll-Out - Ughh, not feeling this. Ring Escape as an ability is fine, and I'll be the first to admit how often I take advantage of it. Rolling outside to heal up should remain as an ability though, and not be something that's forced. This is kind of crossing the line of simulation, since it's taking control out of the player's hand and forcing a strategy that may not even be necessary at the time.
Backstage Brawls and Fighting In The Crowd - Three areas isn't bad as long as they are fully realized, and have plenty of interactive objects available. I'm really glad that we'll be able to go from the ring to these areas in No DQ matches, which is something that Ive seen a lot of people concerned about. Since the areas are directly connected, I'm guessing it'll be a general "backstage area" where interviews are conducted, a parking lot, and maybe a locker room?
Taunting Matters - Ohhh, I love this! Being able to get a temporary damage or momentum boost from certain taunts, rather than just adding to your overall momentum/finisher meter, will add another layer of realism. It'll pretty much be like your own Comeback.
Major Reversals Play a Bigger Role - This is good to hear. Like Hasney said, being able to really feel the momentum shift and not have it instantly thrown back at you will make a big difference in the flow of the match. It'll actually be worth waiting for a major reversal opportunity to arise now.
Chain Wrestling and Submission Changes - Unlike some others, I don't hate chain wrestling. However, I do feel like the implication was uninspired and lacks any kind of detailed consideration. Generic animations with no regards to weight class or personality, and you don't get much of an upper-hand by actually winning. It's very one-dimensional in it's current state, and it doesn't sound like Yukes plans on fixing that, either. That being said, I still think it adds to the overall feel of the match (unless you get stuck in continuous ties) and am glad that it will still be a part of the 2K17.
Secondary submission being button mashing doesn't sound very appealing. Hopefully the updated primary submission system will be tight enough for me to just stick with it. Again, it was a good idea, but with a poor execution that has hopefully been corrected.
The Roll-Out - Ughh, not feeling this. Ring Escape as an ability is fine, and I'll be the first to admit how often I take advantage of it. Rolling outside to heal up should remain as an ability though, and not be something that's forced. This is kind of crossing the line of simulation, since it's taking control out of the player's hand and forcing a strategy that may not even be necessary at the time.
Backstage Brawls and Fighting In The Crowd - Three areas isn't bad as long as they are fully realized, and have plenty of interactive objects available. I'm really glad that we'll be able to go from the ring to these areas in No DQ matches, which is something that Ive seen a lot of people concerned about. Since the areas are directly connected, I'm guessing it'll be a general "backstage area" where interviews are conducted, a parking lot, and maybe a locker room?
Taunting Matters - Ohhh, I love this! Being able to get a temporary damage or momentum boost from certain taunts, rather than just adding to your overall momentum/finisher meter, will add another layer of realism. It'll pretty much be like your own Comeback.
Major Reversals Play a Bigger Role - This is good to hear. Like Hasney said, being able to really feel the momentum shift and not have it instantly thrown back at you will make a big difference in the flow of the match. It'll actually be worth waiting for a major reversal opportunity to arise now.
Chain Wrestling and Submission Changes - Unlike some others, I don't hate chain wrestling. However, I do feel like the implication was uninspired and lacks any kind of detailed consideration. Generic animations with no regards to weight class or personality, and you don't get much of an upper-hand by actually winning. It's very one-dimensional in it's current state, and it doesn't sound like Yukes plans on fixing that, either. That being said, I still think it adds to the overall feel of the match (unless you get stuck in continuous ties) and am glad that it will still be a part of the 2K17.
Secondary submission being button mashing doesn't sound very appealing. Hopefully the updated primary submission system will be tight enough for me to just stick with it. Again, it was a good idea, but with a poor execution that has hopefully been corrected.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Were people complaining about the ladder being weird? I thought that was part of the fun, too. It added to the randomness of the those type of matches. No one is looking for a realistic ladder match simulator. The ladder was the wild card that made playing those matches different.
Honestly, everything in that ign article makes it sound like a patch. 'We turned off auto chain wrestling at the start of matches!' is something you could already switch off in last year's game, right?
Honestly, everything in that ign article makes it sound like a patch. 'We turned off auto chain wrestling at the start of matches!' is something you could already switch off in last year's game, right?
Fix-It Felix. Jr.
Member
This video of Brock and Paul is giving me War Zone vibes.
Solid post
The space between simulation and arcade doesn't exist anymore, they either go full simulation (WWE 2k series) or full arcade (all-star) and neither of those work
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Chain-wrestling should be an ability/trait and not something everyone is capable of or some toggle thing or something with a high enough technical rating that comes with its own perks to give you a reason to use it but balanced to now allow spamming it.
The Elite
BOSS
"No one is looking for a realistic ladder match simulator."
Yet anytime a ladder match, or any other type of match, would fuck up and glitch people would use that as a strike against the game.
People would post glitch vids and gifs of all sorts of gimmick matches doing things the developers didn't intend. GAF loves posting them and talking about how the game looks like shit. What I'm assuming is that they now want to control what your capable of doing with a ladder in hopes of limiting the situations for a visual glitch to occur. It would be better if they could debug the system so that you could have the ladder anywhere but it looks like they are going this route instead.
I'd prefer to have the ladder fuck up than the stupid limitations of what you can do, this is now the worst option available. Tables fuck up more often but they haven't talked about that which is stupid.
People say the game looks like shit because it does, not because of physics glitches. They're just funny,
After all this, I'd be willing to bet they still have glitches that pop up from time to time with the standard level of polish these games recieve.
The Elite
BOSS
I wouldn't be shocked if they are doing the same thing with tables.
If 2k is looking at feedback I can constantly see the endless stream of gifs of glitches being something they were concerned about. They may not be able to improve the visual fidelity of the wrestlers themselves but restricted other options that cause glitches is something they can control.
I don't really like it either but I can understand why they might be trying it.
And yes, of course the glitches are going to still be there. This engine is old as fuck and needs to be replaced. They continue to patch it up every year but new problems show themselves.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
http://www.thesmackdownhotel.com/news/wwe2k17/wwe-2k17-roster-reveal-week-3-with-screenshots
Further roster reveal, screenshots at the first look of AJ Styles, Bubba Ray Dudley, Becky Lynch and Alexa Bliss of new characters (or a long return in Bubba's case) plus screenshots of the returning Emma, Kofi and Xavier.
Further roster reveal, screenshots at the first look of AJ Styles, Bubba Ray Dudley, Becky Lynch and Alexa Bliss of new characters (or a long return in Bubba's case) plus screenshots of the returning Emma, Kofi and Xavier.
spindashing
Banned
YOU WERE EXPECTING ALEXA BLISS BUT IT WAS ME, DIO!
funkystudent
Member
Her hair (?) is clipping so bad.
Fix-It Felix. Jr.
Member
They gave us false hope by posting that picture of Charlotte first. For shame.
Nocturnowl
Member
Her pose game is on point.
BoboBrazil
Member
Gameplay will look even worse. Entrances are the absolute best characters will look.
Did they use a fucking real doll as basis?