They have been moving more and more to licensing-heavy deals (TV rights, toys, etc) to provide steady revenue streams and away from more volatile sources like PPV revenue. It's created a massive disconnect between management and their audience that's eliminated the sorts of feedback loops that lead to change actually occurring. They're self-destructing creatively and don't know it yet because they keep patching the leaks.
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WWE Holding All-Day Creative Meetings Today & Friday
- Thread starter Bluekaveli
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CM Punk: "If I'm not going to main event Wrestlemania, I don't want to be here anymore"
Royal Rumble: Basically the WWE has went too far with the "We only push people we want, we could care less who the crowd likes" thing that's been happening since wrestling began. Instead of it just being a small group of "smart fans" ticked off, it's the entire audience.
Imagine Austin cutting his Austin 3:16 promo and WWE deciding "nah, we're not going to take advantage of this. We're sticking with Brakus"
JesseEwiak
Member
While, we're ignoring the part that Brakus never popped the biggest RAW rating in months, there's no evidence (unlike with Austin) that Bryan is moving TV ratings, PPV numbers, or house show numbers, and so on,
But regardless. You realize that's actually what the WWE did, after KOTR '96? It took Bret Hart coming back from hiatus and basically telling Vince, "I want to work a program with Austin," for Vince to get behind him, right?
#4 merch guy, apparently (and his merch is awful.) The problem is that in order to propel him up the charts (like Punk did) you have to take the damn risk, and they're no longer willing to do that. 50/50 booking, PPVs don't matter, everyone generally looks the same, etc.
Host Samurai
Member
Waaaait. Brakus was gonna be in Austins spot? That same dude that had a small stint in ECW? Oh god.
Vince loves Roided up big dudes.
Thanks guys. I was having a problem following all of the separate pieces but I think I get it now. Boxing is my main sport and it went through similar star-obsessed phase in the mid-2000s. Luckily it has experienced a (relative) renaissance of fan-friendly fights over the last two years.
A few more questions:
I still don't understand fully why CM Punk would quit. Is he mostly just being a diva? I can understand him being dissatisfied but I'm not fully getting what he did. Does he have other options?
Also, what's the deal with Bryan? Is he simply a fan-favorite that the WWE is hesitant to push to the front or is there more to it than that? Don't they have lots of avenues for featuring/promoting wrestlers? This doesn't make sense to me.
Punk got huge about a year and a half ago, got the title, then got ignored as champion until he had to drop the title to the Rock. (And he only kept the title so long because Rock asked to wrestle him specifically.) He was never treated as the top guy, and he (like everyone not named Orton, Batista, Helmsly, Lesnar, Undertaker, or Cena) gets virtually no investment from management.
Bryan is a guy who could be big (in a Bret Hart way, not an Austin/Rock/Cena way) and is ready for that push on top, but again, they're not willing to just go with it. Neither Bryan nor Punk fit Vince's vision of what a guy "should" be. This is what he's able to generate reaction-wise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttiGTC5B2gg. This was 2 weeks before Royal Rumble. Where they had booked the returning Batista to win to set up a Batista/Orton match no one actually wants to see. At Summerslam Bryan beat Cena to win, but immediately got screwed over and beat by Orton for the title seconds later. They've given their audience blue balls for the past 5-6 months and the audience is revolting because of it.
Bryan is a guy who could be big (in a Bret Hart way, not an Austin/Rock/Cena way) and is ready for that push on top, but again, they're not willing to just go with it. Neither Bryan nor Punk fit Vince's vision of what a guy "should" be. This is what he's able to generate reaction-wise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttiGTC5B2gg. This was 2 weeks before Royal Rumble. Where they had booked the returning Batista to win to set up a Batista/Orton match no one actually wants to see. At Summerslam Bryan beat Cena to win, but immediately got screwed over and beat by Orton for the title seconds later. They've given their audience blue balls for the past 5-6 months and the audience is revolting because of it.
ElRenoRaven
Member
And that is exactly the issue. Vince has always had this problem putting "little men" in the head roles. Even Austin, Rock, etc were pretty big guys. Any time it came to someone like Rey, Benoit, Gurrero, etc they never got huge pushes. They usually got treated like 2nd bananas to the big guys even though they had the belts. Hell usually they were booked to just look weak and lucky to have the belts.
Punk is hurt and tired of traveling. Main Eventing Wrestlemania is a goal of his, if it's not going to happen, the travel and injuries aren't worth it to him any more. I wouldn't classify Punk as being a Diva. Alberto Del Rio? Now he's a diva.
You're bang on with Brian. He's not huge and roided up so they don't want to push him. There's also no such thing as showcasing the rest of the card anymore either. The bottom of the card is told to intentionally suck as to not make the slugs at the top of the card look bad and they will be punished if they disobey.
Entire show is built around around the main event. When Poochie is not on screen, everyone else is asking "Hey, where's Poochie?, PS download the WWE App".
You're bang on with Brian. He's not huge and roided up so they don't want to push him. There's also no such thing as showcasing the rest of the card anymore either. The bottom of the card is told to intentionally suck as to not make the slugs at the top of the card look bad and they will be punished if they disobey.
Entire show is built around around the main event. When Poochie is not on screen, everyone else is asking "Hey, where's Poochie?, PS download the WWE App".
sketchsanchez
Member
Personally I think Bryan could be big in a Cena way.
then again I dont consider Cena at the Austin/Rock/Hogan level.
He's below those guys, but above Hart obviously.
then again I dont consider Cena at the Austin/Rock/Hogan level.
He's below those guys, but above Hart obviously.
I think Bryan's a hard sell to kids.
sketchsanchez
Member
Really? A tough little asskicker with an easy chant/catchphrase? Maybe you're right, but it seems like it'd be an easy sell
Cena's character is a horrible, despicable human being with no redeeming qualities. 90% of why kids like him because he's the guy who wins all the time and the entire program is built around telling them he's awesome.
JesseEwiak
Member
So, like Hulk Hogan then? Ya' know, the woman beating, wife stealing, cheating in matches against heels, hypocritical Hulk Hogan?
aggro crag
Member
What if Daniel Bryan shaves his beard. Comes out every night with a fake one, and before entering the ring, he takes his beard off and puts it on a young fan?
sketchsanchez
Member
Hogan classic beat up women?
Someone please get this suggestion to him somehow. It would be hilarious (if/when he decides to shave it.)
sketchsanchez
Member
what if he wore a fake beard over his real one?
hire me Vince!
hire me Vince!
Yep. He won all the time too!
Sent a Tweet, lol, everyone should.
You want Bryan to do top guy things before he gets a top guy push or spot?
That's fair.
He's more of a heel than Orton is right now.
Host Samurai
Member
Thinking back to the early 90's, its crazy that Bret Hart was such a dominant champion with pretty long reigns. I am also surprised that HBK even had a reign. Not surprised they never gave him one last title run. Fucking Vince.
JesseEwiak
Member
Eddie Guerrero did all those things while he was stuck feuding with his nephew and Tajiri. That forced Vince's hand to push him to the top.
Again, Vince cares about money. You want Bryan to be pushed? Buy his merchandise. Go to shows where he's the main event. I admit Bryan's push hasn't been fantastic. But, if Bryan was inherently really as "over" as people claim he is, then the numbers would bare it out.
According to the actual facts the WWE has right now, Bryan is basically Jim Duggan with a slightly better merchandising sales.
Christberg
Member
The deal with Bryan is this. Think of him as Ralph Macchio in Karate Kid. Except at the end of the movie, Will Zabka beats the snot out of him and Miyagi. Then he gets banned from future tournaments because he isn't "marketable."
People want to see that crane kick and it's been made evident it's not gonna happen. Of course people are mad. And they should be.
People want to see that crane kick and it's been made evident it's not gonna happen. Of course people are mad. And they should be.
JesseEwiak
Member
Actually, what is happening is people want Macchio to win and cheer for him, but when he loses, they still go and buy Cobra Kai merchandise happily.
AlternativeUlster
Absolutely pathetic part deux
As someone who wears wrestling shirts in public, I have had 3 kids start doing the Yes chant when I wear my Daniel Bryan shirt.
Just saying this however is like bringing up Gamecube Hut or something of that sort.
I'M FINISHED!
Um exCUSE me Sakurai but CLEARLY the best choice for Smash Bros would be my fav niche character HOWEVER you are clearly INCOMPETENT and
The internet wrestling gangs attempt to slay Hulkamania never ceases.
The crazy bearded guy that flies around the ring kicking ass, and yells YES a lot? I think he's very easy to market to kids.
Kids are easy to win over. In fact, WIN a lot and they will like you. Kids like the guy that's strong and wins loads, or the guy that's colourful, loud and has catchprases. Cena is both, hence why he's so popular with kids.
Wow. This gave me chills even hearing everybody cheering for him like that. That's crazy. I haven't seen the audience react to someone like that in recent history at all.
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