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[Angry Grimace]

One of the main problems I have is how rigid Vince is with his year-long plans. Each of the last three years, news has broken right after WM detailing what the following year’s main event will be, and they never break from that plan. They’ve all sucked. There is no respect for the fan involved here. No natural influence like used to happen, and it is hurting the product.

Watching WM 30 when they HAD to make it good will make you sad.

 

[Crow Pudding]

Wasn't Reigns getting over necessary to make Strowman getting over?

 

[Deleted member 47027]

One of the main problems I have is how rigid Vince is with his year-long plans. Each of the last three years, news has broken right after WM detailing what the following year’s main event will be, and they never break from that plan. They’ve all sucked. There is no respect for the fan involved here. No natural influence like used to happen, and it is hurting the product.

It was just better hidden before. Everyone still dances to the tune. Nothing is organic.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Huh, just finished watching and the first half of the event was pretty damn fun, then the final three matches all kind of ended in a deflating fashion, such a shame.
Matches with no flow and a lot of structureless finisher fests to boot.
I think the dick kick was a better finish than those double main events.

Anywho despite it being an "overcoming the odds" formula match, the tag match was my highlight, never thought I'd love THE BAR so much.

 

[Host Samurai]

I don’t understand the Braun over praise going on. I mean he’s OK but too damn goofy for me and LOL at anyone saying he should beat Brock. Finn, AJ or Nak should dethrone him. Sadly Roman will and he will be in the same situation he’s in now instead of actually elevating talent that’s deserving. It’s just a missed opportunity.

 

[half a moon]

I don’t understand the Braun over praise going on. I mean he’s OK but too damn goofy for me and LOL at anyone saying he should beat Brock. Finn, AJ or Nak should dethrone him. Sadly Roman will and he will be in the same situation he’s in now instead of actually elevating talent that’s deserving. It’s just a missed opportunity.

I agree on Braun

 

[Plinko]

It was just better hidden before. Everyone still dances to the tune. Nothing is organic.

There is no way the Daniel Bryan stuff was inorganic.

 

[Paracelsus]

I don't understand the Braun over praise going on. I mean he's OK but too damn goofy for me and LOL at anyone saying he should beat Brock. Finn, AJ or Nak should dethrone him. Sadly Roman will and he will be in the same situation he's in now instead of actually elevating talent that's deserving. It's just a missed opportunity.

So after you had Brock devastate the entire roster it should be some midget to pin him clean for the world title? I like them but to take down Brock you need more than star power.

To put you in perspective over who gets to pin a monster push Lesnar, ever since he got on TV (no dark matches) during his first run, the only people to give him clean defeats were Angle (twice) and Undertaker. None of the names you mention have the credentials. Angle trascended WWE with his gold medal, Undertaker pinned him in a shitty triple threat for the #1 contendership, so basically only Angle got to pin Lesnar for the title in a clean fashion. There is also Eddie but he kayfabe ddt-ed his face on the title, a spot they botched.

The one we needed was Samoa Joe, to then put in a feud with Braun and have Roman (if the wankers in the back want to insist with him) get the best of them in a triple threat kinda like Big Show vs Edge vs Cena.

 

[half a moon]

So after you had Brock devastate the entire roster it should be some midget to pin him clean for the world title? I like them but to take down Brock you need more than star power.

To put you in perspective over who gets to pin a monster push Lesnar, ever since he got on TV (no dark matches) during his first run, the only people to give him clean defeats were Angle (twice) and Undertaker. None of the names you mention have the credentials. Angle trascended WWE with his gold medal, Undertaker pinned him in a shitty triple threat for the #1 contendership, so basically only Angle got to pin Lesnar for the title in a clean fashion. There is also Eddie but he kayfabe ddt-ed his face on the title, a spot they botched.

The one we needed was Samoa Joe, to then put in a feud with Braun and have Roman (if the wankers in the back want to insist with him) get the best of them in a triple threat kinda like Big Show vs Edge vs Cena.

Nah Roman vs Brock is the better wm match

 

[Deleted member 47027]

There is no way the Daniel Bryan stuff was inorganic.

He didn't get beaten and screwed for six months straight on a whim. Just according to keikaku.

Don't get me wrong, things change, but nothing is truly organic.

 

[chaosmaster(1)]

I'm going to guess that after Roman beats Brock next mania he still won't get over. My question is will that be the last big opportunity for a heel push. Like I know they can do it anytime but that would be the last maximizing one? If Roman gets over I feel the chance he has at that is a heel and I doubt he gets over but who knows.

 

[fhqwhgads]

Roman Vs Brock is just going to be Roman Vs HHH all over again, a 30 minute slog of a match that has maybe one or two interesting spots, but the crowd will get bored, probably get tired because of some other match on the card stealing the show (Especially if they pull the trigger on AJ Vs Nakamura) and Mania will end with the production team muting the boos when Roman celebrates with the title. It'll also probably really sour Mania 34 on a lot of people regardless of how good the other matches are.

 

[Paracelsus]

Nah Roman vs Brock is the better wm match

Roman vs Brock is an even shittier version of Goldberg vs Brock, which they did twice and each time was worse. The best part of their match at WM31 was Rollins, and he joined them for sixty seconds.

I'm going to guess that after Roman beats Brock next mania he still won't get over. My question is will that be the last big opportunity for a heel push. Like I know they can do it anytime but that would be the last maximizing one? If Roman gets over I feel the chance he has at that is a heel and I doubt he gets over but who knows.

A heel doesn't sell as many shirts to kids, who's gonna take his spot as top babyface (...?) to guarantee that loss?

 

[Plinko]

Roman vs Brock is an even shittier version of Goldberg vs Brock, which they did twice and each time was worse. The best part of their match at WM31 was Rollins, and he joined them for sixty seconds.



A heel doesn't sell as many shirts to kids, who's gonna take his spot as top babyface to guarantee that loss?

Goldberg v. Brock v3 was quite good, actually.

So after you had Brock devastate the entire roster it should be some midget to pin him clean for the world title? I like them but to take down Brock you need more than star power.

The idea that somebody smaller couldn’t use brains and other techniques to beat him is my main problem with Vince today.

 

[half a moon]

Roman vs Brock is an even shittier version of Goldberg vs Brock, which they did twice and each time was worse. The best part of their match at WM31 was Rollins, and he joined them for sixty seconds.



A heel doesn't sell as many shirts to kids, who's gonna take his spot as top babyface (...?) to guarantee that loss?

Goldberg vs Brock this past mania was MOTY

 

[chaosmaster(1)]

A heel doesn't sell as many shirts to kids, who's gonna take his spot as top babyface (...?) to guarantee that loss?

IDK from the push he's getting he certainly isn't doing the numbers a top baby face should, they haven't really built anyone else up to be the top baby face but from the way attendance is doing from reports I don't think Roman is doing what a top baby face should be.

 

[Paracelsus]

The idea that somebody smaller couldn’t use brains and other techniques to beat him is my main problem with Vince today.

The idea is that someone smaller is gonna be your Superman the kids are gonna look up to and buy shirts after he FUs someone the size of Viscera.

You have Rey going "DREAMS DO COME TROOOO" against someone like JBL, but how long you can keep such a buffoonery going?

If you had another marvel of nature like Angle, able to olympic slam Big Show, Lesnar and Henry, then you'd have the better case, but really, the top name has to be the full package, it can't be a midget.

IDK from the push he's getting he certainly isn't doing the numbers a top baby face should, they haven't really built anyone else up to be the top baby face but from the way attendance is doing from reports I don't think Roman is doing what a top baby face should be.

The problem is they don't have a single name they've been slowly grooming for such a push, except Roman. And I don't mean they don't have names, they have none that have been consistently written to go up there eventually. One day Rollins is the top with the authority, now he's a midcard with other 3 good names feuding for the tag titles. They're throwing shit at the wall none of which it sticks.

Again, their last true success in slowly building up two massive names who would be able to carry the company were Cena and Batista and that was over 12 years ago. Roman is gone, there is no Roman. Maybe they can pull a heel, but a heel needs a face to work with. Edge had Cena, who's your new Cena to put up against Roman?

 

[chaosmaster(1)]

The problem is they don't have a single name they've been slowly grooming for such a push, except Roman. And I don't mean they don't have names, they have none that have been consistently written to go up there eventually. One day Rollins is the top with the authority, now he's a midcard with other 3 good names feuding for the tag titles. They're throwing shit at the wall none of which it sticks.

Again, their last true success in slowly building up two massive names who would be able to carry the company were Cena and Batista and that was over 12 years ago. Roman is gone, there is no Roman. Maybe they can pull a heel, but a heel needs a face to work with. Edge had Cena, who's your new Cena to put up against Roman?

I agree but that's on them. As someone who doesn't watch the programming weekly or all their PPVs but likes to follow the behind the scenes of it I have no reason to be invested. The one guy they've placed all their bets on from my point of view isn't getting it done so I find it interesting whether it can be done and whether Vince will.

If this was any other era Vince would've had to adjust but he doesn't. I'm just happy they're getting this process over with where Roman goes over everyone he needs to instead of having it delayed to until now. After this there's not much left for the guy to do if he can't get truly over. The face that comes to mind is Daniel Bryan considering he wants to wrestle again and if they allow him he's going to be much over than Roman and probably move more merch than him.

 

[Plinko]

The idea is that someone smaller is gonna be your Superman the kids are gonna look up to and buy shirts after he FUs someone the size of Viscera.

You have Rey going "DREAMS DO COME TROOOO" against someone like JBL, but how long you can keep such a buffoonery going?

If you had another marvel of nature like Angle, able to olympic slam Big Show, Lesnar and Henry, then you'd have the better case, but really, the top name has to be the full package, it can't be a midget.

The problem here is viewing guys like AJ Styles and Nakamura as “midgets.” Everyone knows wrestling is fake. Nobody stops watching because a guy like that beat a bigger guy.

 

[Paracelsus]

The problem here is viewing guys like AJ Styles and Nakamura as "midgets." Everyone knows wrestling is fake. Nobody stops watching because a guy like that beat a bigger guy.

Indeed, they watch because of their charisma, which doesn't mean striking a cool pose and twerking in the ring, it means delivering consistently good promos like Cm Punk and Kevin Owens, which they had as midcard pseudo-champion for months only to squash everything because lol Oldberg. What they did with Punk and Rock and later with Owens and Oldberg is exactly, precisely, what is killing them. Pick a name, build him up, give him the title and go balls out with the push so that you can smash him right into the main event of Wrestlemania.

Until you have such a name (and Roman is not) they have no future.

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

I don't watch much wrestling, just a few of the PPVs here and there. I watched this one and all I have to say is Dean Ambrose is a complete shit. Everything about him is just shit. Why does he always seem to win? And he kicks out of everything like a massive shit. What a shit.

 

[Host Samurai]

So after you had Brock devastate the entire roster it should be some midget to pin him clean for the world title? I like them but to take down Brock you need more than star power.

To put you in perspective over who gets to pin a monster push Lesnar, ever since he got on TV (no dark matches) during his first run, the only people to give him clean defeats were Angle (twice) and Undertaker. None of the names you mention have the credentials. Angle trascended WWE with his gold medal, Undertaker pinned him in a shitty triple threat for the #1 contendership, so basically only Angle got to pin Lesnar for the title in a clean fashion. There is also Eddie but he kayfabe ddt-ed his face on the title, a spot they botched.

The one we needed was Samoa Joe, to then put in a feud with Braun and have Roman (if the wankers in the back want to insist with him) get the best of them in a triple threat kinda like Big Show vs Edge vs Cena.

Absolutely. Having a smaller guy win makes a good underdog story where the biggest guys can get beat by good workrate. Fin has the Demon thing going on, AJ is regarded as the best wrestler in the world right now and Nak is a star that uses a hard hitting style. No shame in that.

 

[funkystudent]

I don't watch much wrestling, just a few of the PPVs here and there. I watched this one and all I have to say is Dean Ambrose is a complete shit. Everything about him is just shit. Why does he always seem to win? And he kicks out of everything like a massive shit. What a shit.

That's how WWE books good guys now.

They are all assholes.

They all kick out of everything.

 

[Plinko]

Absolutely. Having a smaller guy win makes a good underdog story where the biggest guys can get beat by good workrate. Fin has the Demon thing going on, AJ is regarded as the best wrestler in the world right now and Nak is a star that uses a hard hitting style. No shame in that.

Exactly. Having the "Only a hoss can win!" mindset effectively eliminated 95% of the roster. Boring.

 

[sora87]

Both "wrestlemania" matches were average at best, verging on just plain boring.
Tag title match was the highlight of the show.

 

[Alex Anderson]

Pretty damn disappointing main event... And Reigns kicking out of all those AA's was like yeah, OK.

 

[sf2fanatic]

I still lol at Braun tech throwing Brock.

Any word on Nia? Did she come out ok after that powerbomb move?

 

[Penguin]

Both "wrestlemania" matches were average at best, verging on just plain boring.
Tag title match was the highlight of the show.

So... recent WrestleMania main events...

 

[sora87]

So... recent WrestleMania main events...

Indeed. Can't think of a "whoaaaa" moment from the cena/reigns match apart from the reigns nearly breaking his neck thing.

 

[Kensation]

I don't know how anyone has the time or patience to follow this product anymore.

 

[Demoskinos]

I don't know how anyone has the time or patience to follow this product anymore.

You follow it at a distance and then check in when something good happens. Good matches and feuds still exist you just have to sift through way more garbage to find the gems.

 

[RulkezX]

Just watching it now one the Network ( yay for emails giving a free resub) and hit the Cena match. Sitting here watching my 7yo go nuts for Cena knowing how pissed he's going to be soon when Reigns wins 😀

 

[buttery fistful]

How gnarly is Cesaro's dental injury?

 

[theclosetfan]

I don't know how anyone has the time or patience to follow this product anymore.

I cancelled my subscription after one of the Randy Orton/Jinder Mahal main events.

They just sent me an email offering the network free for the rest of the year, and I was intrigued enough by Reigns/Cena and Braun/Brock. Shouldn't have taken the bait. It, quite literally, wasn't worth my time.

 

[Autumn Wind]

Followed the PPV on PWTorch last night and figured it would completely and utterly suck. I was almost disappointed as I was reading Keller's star ratings as the matches seemingly were getting good marks. True to form, WWE closed the show out weak with a lousy Enzo match and a 9 minute main event.

In the end, my low expectations ended up being met and I was reminded why I stopped subbing to the network. : D

 

[Mahonay]

How gnarly is Cesaro's dental injury?

Shit was insane. Can't believe he finished the rest of the match as if nothing happened. The pain must have been unreal. Not to mention freaking out in your head that your front teeth just got completely annihilated.

I still lol at Braun tech throwing Brock.

Any word on Nia? Did she come out ok after that powerbomb move?

Nia seemed fine. She ate that on her neck for sure though.

 

[UberTag]

The worst shit all night was Michael Cole screaming that John is the GOAT and Roman's victory last night was more important than beating taker at mania. Fuck outta here with that, styles beat the shit out of him 3 times 1v1 and never heard of such nonsense.

Cole wasn't calling those matches.
Cole is Cena's best friend and biggest fan.
Hence the knob slobbering.

I cancelled my subscription after one of the Randy Orton/Jinder Mahal main events.

They just sent me an email offering the network free for the rest of the year, and I was intrigued enough by Reigns/Cena and Braun/Brock. Shouldn't have taken the bait. It, quite literally, wasn't worth my time.

Taking up the WWE's free subscription offers makes you part of the problem, not the solution.
They just send those out non-stop to pad their "paid subscriber" numbers.

 

[Savitar]

If Vince doesn't like Cesaro after what happened the fans really should riot. God damn that looked so bad.

 

[TimeEffect]

If Vince doesn't like Cesaro after what happened the fans really should riot. God damn that looked so bad.

As happy as I am for Cesaro, I want more for him.

I hope they keep The Bar. Really should have won that match. No problem playing hot potato with the tag titles since Smackdown does it well.

Really makes me hate Seth and Dean because Dean doesnt do shit in these matches but flop around. That guy is so bad.

 

[Lashley]

Fucking hell that main event was terrible.

Also, fuck Enzo.

Felt sorry for Cesaro too, bet that hurt.

Least Alexa retained

 

[shaowebb]

How gnarly is Cesaro's dental injury?

VERY. Its even worse with sound.

Props to him for thinking up a Crossface spot once he had no teeth though. He may be able to turn this into something with toothless aggression being a known phrase tied to that move's creator. They might be able to put that submission on him under that name and turn this into a thing for him if they had any brains.

 

[Lashley]

VERY. Its even worse with sound.


Props to him for thinking up a Crossface spot once he had no teeth though. He may be able to turn this into something with toothless aggression being a known phrase tied to that move's creator. They might be able to put that submission on him under that name and turn this into a thing for him if they had any brains.

They don't

 

[UberTag]

If Vince doesn't like Cesaro after what happened the fans really should riot. God damn that looked so bad.

I don't care if Vince likes Cesaro but he should sure as hell respect him after what he pulled out last night to "go on with the show".

They don't

Vince had brains at one point. He's just senile now so it no longer works.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Double standards breh. It's wwe so it isn't cool. I won't lie, I was salty as shit at neville losing it since he carries the division on his back but it could be entertaining watching him fall into madness weekly with Enzo throwing the belt around.

Different people. Different gimmicks.

 

[kiguel182]

Watched this. Reigns continues to be terrible. Straw man is pretty cool and should’ve won.

The tag match was great fun even if I was only half watching. Barely remember the woman’s match.

Main event and tag were good. The Roman pandering continues to be off putting but was else is new.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Damn, did not do. Eater of Worlds for sure



It's been painfully obvious for awhile this was the way this was going. I'm kind of surprised so many people actually thought it wasn't lol

Of course it has, the problem is Vince's stubborn ass refusing to change course no matter how painfully obvious it should be to everyone else.

 

[Marvel]

Great ppv, until bork vs braun

Thought braun should have won, getting a little bored of Lesnar's 10 minute matches now. The way they made Roman look strong tho, jeezus lol

Enzo winning like that was expected, fuck him. Hope neville beats the shit out of him soon lol

 

[Savitar]

As happy as I am for Cesaro, I want more for him.

I hope they keep The Bar. Really should have won that match. No problem playing hot potato with the tag titles since Smackdown does it well.

Really makes me hate Seth and Dean because Dean doesnt do shit in these matches but flop around. That guy is so bad.

I don't care if Vince likes Cesaro but he should sure as hell respect him after what he pulled out last night to "go on with the show".


Vince had brains at one point. He's just senile now so it no longer works.

One of the better post I saw elsewhere on the situation which said things very well:

It's not just rhetoric, it's actual presentation and effort. They give guys they "believe in" anything and everything they can to make they look good, meanwhile the majority of the roster is stuck doing regular matches, dopey backstage promos, and are booked like mortals.

A guy like Reigns gets fed better opponents, breaks more tables/barricades/ring steps, gets more promo time, and is just all around presented as better than the rest of the roster.

Meanwhile guys like Cesaro are given a basic match and the same stock promo everyone who isn't in the main event cuts, and still delivers.
Imagine if Reigns and Cesaro's positions in the company were swapped? Reigns might realistically be drowning in the midcard or tag division while Cesaro could be making a case for being the only superfreak athlete to be able to topple the other superfreak athlete, Brock Lesnar.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

VERY. Its even worse with sound.


Props to him for thinking up a Crossface spot once he had no teeth though. He may be able to turn this into something with toothless aggression being a known phrase tied to that move's creator. They might be able to put that submission on him under that name and turn this into a thing for him if they had any brains.

If he was smart he would keep the no teeth look, he'd finally have a personality. For as great as he is in the ring, I still can't think of anyone more dull in terms of mic skills and personality

 

[Deleted member 47027]

If he was smart he would keep the no teeth look, he'd finally have a personality. For as great as he is in the ring, I still can't think of anyone more dull in terms of mic skills and personality