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X-Rebirth huge info. Complicated = bad. Complex = good.

Darklord

Banned
Rage incoming? I'm not sure how X fans will react to this but have one flyable ship...I can see anger spewing from that.

I highlighted the topic titles and some interesting bits as it is a big read. Not sure how I feel about getting rid of capital ships and turning them into NPC controlled but it sounds like it could work. I like lots of ships to use though. Less complicated but still complex is EXACTLY what I wanted though!

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=306346

Let me give you a quick tour around what X Rebirth is and is not.

Why X Rebirth instead of X4

After more than 10 years of developing the X games by adding features to an existing concept, we wanted to make a fresh start.

All the games of the old X series after X:Beyond the Frontier, were developed by taking the prequel and adding features on top. This had a lot of advantages for us as developers. Most importantly it allowed us to work very closely with the community. We could listen to your wishes and feedback on the last game and incorporate much of that into the next game.

However it also had a big drawback: It made the game more and more complicated and harder to get into for those who were not already part of the community from the start.



Complex=good, Complicated=bad

Let me get this straight right at the start. X Rebirth is not less complex or dumber than any of the X games of the past.
But to make a game intuitive and easy to learn, you have to design it from scratch.
Adding features to a game that was not designed for these features at the start, is never perfect.

What hardware will be required to play X Rebirth?

We can not yet answer what the minimum hardware requirements will be, but this will be announced before the release of the game.

A Changed Universe

The X universe was always defined by gates. Gates that were (almost?) the only technology that allowed its inhabitants to bridge interstellar distances.

The gates were built by a very advanced ancient civilisation a long long time ago. They were later used by the different populations that developed in the X universe and they relied on them for trading and for their everyday life.

A while after the events told in X3:Terran Conflict however, the gates suddenly ceased to work. Why? That's still unknown. This shutdown however had dramatic political and economical consequences. Millions of people were isolated far away from their former home and many systems suddenly lacked the supplies of food or other resources they needed for everyday life.

At the start of X Rebirth, these events are again a thing of the past, but they have formed a changed and new universe.


CPU performance

One of the biggest steps in developing an entire new engine was to design a true multithread-capable engine. X Rebirth will make full use of latest generation CPUs by spreading the work in many parallel running threads.

What engine and API do we use?


X Rebirth will run on DX9 API as long as all the features that we need from the API are possible with it. That does not mean we may not at some point also support DX11, but for now we do not see a need. Our engine is quite different from all the big established names, because it is designed specifically for a space game. We had a look at engines like Unreal or the CryEngine, but because we wanted to have cutting edge space graphics, an area very different from what these engines are specialized in, we had to develop our own engine.

Will X Rebirth support modding?


We definitely aim to support modding again. Since this is an entirely new engine, we can not provide any documentation and API support before the game comes out, but we hope to provide this soon after the release.


How is scripting going to be supported?


The new engine supports a scripting system very similar to the MD language used in Terran Conflict. It will be strongly modified for the new engine, but if you understand MD already, chances are that you will find it relatively easy to write missions for the new game. XML based languages are also used in many other areas of designing a game with the new Rebirth engine.

Size Matters

Well that at least was one of the tongue-in-cheek marketing slogans for the second of the X games "X-Tension". And as much as you can doubt the truth of this sentence in other areas, it is definitely true when it comes to space games.

Space must be BIG. Really big. But with a larger and larger universe also come longer traveling times, unless you use "hacks" like the SETA time acceleration or allow the player to freely "jump". Both of these hacks (or tricks) however come with big downsides.

So for X Rebirth our solution to this is a system of interconnected highways. Highways allow you to travel fast to reach all popular areas of the universe, yet they can be left anywhere in the middle to allow endless exploration.

Realistic Proportions

Thanks to the highway system we can finally have realistic proportions What was known as sectors in the old universe, was always supposed to be entire solar systems. Thats what it said in the stories of the game and in the books which went into great depth to explain the history of these gates.

In reality however, these sectors were only a few dozen to hundred kilometers in diameter. Not really the size a solar system should have.

Local Highways

All highways were built by only one corporation: Jonferson Space Dynamics Division, a corporation that has closely cooperated with Earth in the past and used their knowledge to bring new acceleration technologies into the X universe.

Local highways accelerate all ships by a very high multiplier (different from place to place though) and bring ships with the same destination much closer together. You can leave a local highway at any time and explore the areas between zones. Although a highway boosts your speed permanently as long as you are inside it, you can still influence your speed by skillful steering. This makes it fun to travel as fast as possible, but also possible to intercept other ships or even attack them in the middle of a highway.

Super Highways and Gates

Super highways are even faster than local highways and bridge interplanetary distances. Again you can influence your speed and interact with other ships but you can not leave a super highway in the middle.

Gates still exist, but right now.... they do not work. However, there are signs that this may soon change!

The Structure of the Universe: Zones, Sectors and Clusters

Shortly after the events of X3:Terran Conflict, the X universe began to change. Thanks to the invention of space highways, massive changes suddenly became possible. Much bigger settlements became possible and a lot of the formerly planet bound economy could now be moved into space too.

Where our old universe was a simple arrangement of cubic sectors, we now have a hierarchy of really stellar proportions allowing a more realistic and varied universe than before.

It starts with what we call zones. This can be anything from a city in space or a group of factories to a unique asteroid field or any other interesting location. Zones are either at the end of local highways or alongside a local highway. Most of the time a group of zones, sometimes hundreds of kilometers apart form a sector. Sectors are then connected with superhighways and form a cluster (e.g a solar system).

The playership - Not just an ordinary ship

One of the big changes in X Rebirth when compared to the old X games is that you as a player will only be flying a single ship. But before you get upset and complain about the lack of freedom to steer other ships, WAIT... that's still possible. Its just packaged in a different way... So please be patient for a moment and read on. Wink

Like in X:Beyond the Frontier, where the player was also bound to a single ship called the Xperimental shuttle, X Rebirth will place you in another very special ship: The Pride of Albion, or as it is more recently known: The Albion Skunk.

Rooms and NPCs

This one ship, however, is not just another ship like those you know from our past games. For starters, it has several rooms that you can see and use, it has a crew of NPCs who work for you, their captain, and who you can meet face to face.

The Co-Pilot

Some of these NPCs can be hired and exchanged, others you meet by destiny (or as we refer to it: The plot). The best example of that latter kind will be your co-pilot. She will be your interface to the ship and helps you control many of the more complex aspects of the game.

The story of the ship

It has a long history and that history is far from over.
You can influence what this ship is and how it develops.

Expanding the ship

It is a fast and maneuverable ship and can be expanded. Weapons systems, engines, shields, but most importantly: Drones.

Drones - You fly them or you command them

Drones are a very big new area of the game and are used in many different ways by YOU the player.



Drone remote control - The VR HUD

First of all there is the possibility to remotely control a drone. This is basically exactly like switching personally into another ship. You can fly drones in a 1st person perspective and it looks as if you are inside the drone. You do this, however, using a Virtual Reality environment in your ship. While your co-pilot takes over the control of your ship, goggles come down from the ceiling and you dive into the remote control of the drone.

The cool thing about this, is that with drones we have even more design freedom than with ships. They can be very small, for example, and are generally very specialized for a particular job. The whole gameplay experience can be a lot more varied than with normal ships, which always have to contain a lot more features.

This is also one of several gameplay changes that allow us to get the player deeper into station and ship environments and help you play with the elements at the surface of ships and stations. A drone can sometimes reach into vents and corridors that are so small that even your ship cant fit inside.

Last but not least, another nice side effect is that you won't die if you are shot down inside a drone. All that happens is that you lose a vehicle - one of many that can be launched from your ship.

Passive functions of a drone

Drones can also help you in a fully automatic mode. They have an AI and can work autonomously if you launch them. This can give you assistance for especially hard jobs.

Abilities

If you want to have some control over what a drone should be doing for you but dont want to switch to remote control with your VR goggles, you can give them commands using a quickly-accessible compass menu. Tell a fighter drone to take out that one turret on the left while you personally take care of the shield generator on the right...

Capital ship control

Where the drones are your preferred vehicles for specialized tasks inside and near the surface of a station, capital ships are your vehicle of choice for all the many "big" tasks. From transportation of goods, collecting of resources like ore, gas or plasma up to large carriers and destroyers. They all exist in X Rebirth and you can of course own and operate many of them[edit: So maybe like temporary?]!

You can in fact even land on these beasts and get out of your playership to meet NPCs while watching the large ship move around in space FROM the deck of the ship!

You won't be sitting in the cockpit and steer such a capital ship from the first person perspective anymore simply because that is boring. Steering huge and slowly-turning ships manually just doesnt make sense. It would force us to make them turn and move unrealistically quick and even then they would be impossible to maneuver near our huge and complex shaped stations.

Instead the steering is done by NPCs who work for you but closely follow your orders. You can control capital ships who work for you in many new ways.


Stations and large ships - New fight tactics

Capital ships as well as space stations are now a lot more detailed. These details, however, are not limited to improved and animated visuals. They are there for gameplay reasons. A single capital ship can have hundreds of objects on its surface. Things like turrets and shield generators which can of course be scanned, manipulated or simply destroyed individually, but also bigger objects like jumpdrive generators, engines and much more.

Surface interactions

But it's not just useful for fighting. On the contrary: The biggest changes are on the building, trading and designing of your own stations and ships.
Stations as well as ships are no longer things that you build or use as one large object. They are systems that are developed and improved.

Capital ship physics

If you have read above about you flying over the surface of a capital ship to take out turrets or other surface elements, as we call them, you may have wondered: 'Hey but what if the ship is moving or turning while I try this?'

Here is another of these big gameplay changes we had to do: When flying closer to large ships, your ship (or the drone you are remote controlling), will gradually be drawn into the influence of that ship. The closer you are to its surface, the more the ship will "drag you with it".

This allows you to actually land on or in ships while they are moving. Even in the middle of a fight between two capital ships you can fly over the surface of one and watch the scenario of the battle like a passenger with the beautiful space background turning around you, while the capital ships move and turn.



Talking to people - NPCs working for you

I have already mentioned the NPCs who help you operate your ships (all of them). This is another of these BIG things for us.

We want to make the game easier to understand by controlling many of the complex things you can do in an X game through conversations.

Instead of dry and hard-to-interpret text menus, you will be talking to people. You will give them commands and they willl tell you about their progress - all in the form of conversations.

Examples

Some examples of NPCs working for you:

* Managers onboard your factories run the economy side. They buy and sell wares, but will only do what you allow them to do.
* Captain of a ship: He or she is the person on the bridge who steers the ship according to your commands. You can tell them what you want them to do in very fine detail, or you give them more freedom or assign them to work for a station manager.
* Your Co-Pilot: She was already mentioned above and she is the most important of all NPCs in this game. You will learn more about her soon.
* Boarding crew: Just one example of crew members working for you.


Building modular stations

With X Rebirth, we wanted to add a whole new level of depth and complexity to building of space stations.


Build platforms - Decide on a category

The first step in building a station is similar to what one would do in our previous games. You hire a large ship. This ship, however, does not contain the whole factory in a single large module anymore. Far from it.

This ship is a so-called 'builder platform'. It hosts a large amount of welder ships and works as a hub during the process of constructing your station.

When you buy a builder platform, you decide on the category of station you want to build. After you have decided on the place to start the new building, you can then land on the platform and discuss what station from that group you want to start building.


You can already see what resources are needed to build the modules of this station and estimations on how expensive this will be, but you don`t just "buy" a station anymore. You really build it.

The build process - Supplying and missions

Every module of a station is built by welder ships. Transporters bring the needed resources for building and only once the resources are there, can the welding begin. You can see how your new station is created literally wall by wall.

At every step of the way you can (together with the NPC who operates this for you) decide whether you want to bring resources yourself or if you simply put up an offer to buy the resources from other traders.
While the station is being built, you sometimes receive special missions to progress the building process. Once the first module is finished for example, you can search for the best manager to run the new station for you, pick him up and personally bring him to your new station.

Build stages - Decide on a strategy

Now we just talked about building a first module so far. And that is actually the biggest new feature - Modularity!
Stations can be built in different orders according to your plans. Do you want to focus on the production and build a chain of modules that support each other, where one produces the resources for the next?
Or do you plan your station more like a huge warehouse and focus on big storage capacities?

Then there is always the question of how much effort to put into the protection and the military capabilities of your station.
Each module you build is an important strategic decision.

Expansions - Going into detail

On top of that modules can also be expanded.
The surface elements that we described in the ships and stations section, all play an important role for your own stations as well.
Invest in turrets, equip the surface of your station with shield generators and add more capabilities to your station by building more things on the surface of your station.

Building ships

In much the same way as you build a station you can also build your own capital ships. You can control every little detail of a new construction if you like, but of course you can also make your life easier and leave many decisions to the NPCs working for you.


We provide the universe, and you decide how you want to play it.



Highway.jpg

Modularity1.jpg
 
Usually I would be at the forefront hating on the dumbing down but in this case it may be for the best. Hard games to get into. If they want to sell to a bigger audience this may be necessary.

But the one ship only thing... That sounds boring.
 

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Sounds perfect to me.

The ideas behind X3 were fascinating, but I simply don't have the time to watch hours of video tutorials on YouTube to start playing a game.
 

linko9

Member
Too many games named X... I thought this was going to be about another sequel to the Cuthbert GB game X.
 

Fitz

Member
I don't remember X3 being that hard to learn, but I did spend a fair amount of time with it I guess, if they can keep the depth but just make all aspects of the game more clear to understand from the get go then that's great. Also I can't say I really mind being stuck in one ship as long as it can be heavily customised, I spent most of my time playing X3 in the same M3 the whole time anyway.
 

Osietra

Banned
I spent an excellent evening reading the SA thread about X, and concluded that I will never have the time to invest playing such a game. Would love to mind.
 

Derrick01

Banned
I still haven't had a chance to really sit down and get into X3, it's the most complicated game I've even attempted to play, so I can't really comment on the possible "dumbing down".

Though if I'd ever be ok with slight dumbing down or streamlining this would be the franchise I would be ok with.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
Honestly love the idea behind x3 but it was too complicated for me. I'd be interested in trying a complex but less insane new game in the series.
 

Dennis

Banned
X3 is Excel spreadsheet in space. Love it.

Cautiously optimistic that this will shake up the formula a little.
 

Mindlog

Member
Anyone played Beyond the Frontier? I am wondering how the new player ship mechanics are going to impact the game.

Complicated = bad. Complex = good.
indeed

Useless complication should not be confused with depth. I can't wait to get my hands on the final product. X3: The mod was fantastic.
 

jet1911

Member
Sounds a lot like Freelancer, wich is a good ting :)

EDIT:

This allows you to actually land on or in ships while they are moving. Even in the middle of a fight between two capital ships you can fly over the surface of one and watch the scenario of the battle like a passenger with the beautiful space background turning around you, while the capital ships move and turn.

*drool*
 
To me this sounds like a very good thing overall, but then I never got that far into X3. I'm very interested in a space sim with a lot of complexity and interesting systems to interact with but without quite as harsh a wall of confusion to push through right upfront.
 
Goddamnit

One ship is bullshit. I don't want drones, I want to be able to buy/capture every ship I see. Will probably still be a cool game, but it's not the same without that level of freedom.
 

Darklord

Banned
jet1911 said:

Yeah the boarding ships sounds really good. I really hope they have fully fleshed out areas on-board not just a static room or something. That would be sick sitting in a huge ship as it battles and watching it outside.

Everything sounds great how they are streamlining it but keeping the complexity. I just couldn't get into X3 as hard as I tried. I just hope if you have one ship it's a really, really good ship. I really can't see why you couldn't just buy ships of the same class.
 
Yeah, I got the news letter about these changes a couple of days ago. I know at least one friend of mine who's going to be a bit pissed about the one flyable ship, but hopefully the drones will keep him happy. I'm more interested in the huge solar systems and the highways and super highways to be honest. Sounds awesome. What is it about these space sims and their obsession with gates anyway? Fuck that shit!

The main thing I'm interested in though is the new interface. I normally play X3:TC for a few days then have to stop, because navigating in and out of those menu trees all the time ends up getting on my tits. It's a shame as well, because I'm about halfway through hostile takeover of all the pirate sectors in the game. I wonder if I can finish that before Rebirth is released?
 

LAMBO

Member
Loved x three but it was a lot to learn and manage. You need some third party scripts to make things easier. But it was awesome two hundred hours of taking over the universe. I remember leaving my pc on overnight while my fleets traded and I'd check in the morning to see how many freighters I lost .
 

Ceebs

Member
X3:TC is one of those game I keep installed and come back to all the time for a few hours. It feels like even after 100 hours of play you are just scratching the surface of a single facet of the game.
 

epmode

Member
This is exactly what I was looking for in a new X game. I've always been incredibly interested in the series, even tried to get into it a few times. Didn't happen.

But oh man, this genre has been so neglected it hurts.
 
charlequin said:
Actually, I'm full of shit, upon examination I actually meant X2.
hehe. I think I ask for this specification in every thread. because it's infuriating to read, haha. reunion is terrible, terran conflict is amazing.
 

Keasar

Member
You won't be sitting in the cockpit and steer such a capital ship from the first person perspective anymore simply because that is boring. Steering huge and slowly-turning ships manually just doesnt make sense. It would force us to make them turn and move unrealistically quick and even then they would be impossible to maneuver near our huge and complex shaped stations.

Instead the steering is done by NPCs who work for you but closely follow your orders. You can control capital ships who work for you in many new ways.

As I understand of this, instead of steering the ship directly, you would be giving orders like a captain on the ship while standing on the bridge. Sounds pretty awesome.
 

Koren

Member
Sounds good to me...

Suairyu said:
How is there artificial gravity in the spaceships?
Not sufficient. You also need pressure to avoid vaporization, and at temperature where water is liquid, you would need really high gravity to maintain enough pressure above the liquid. Even on earth, you can't have liquid in void.

So there's at least a force field, and it should have visible effects.

But that's just physics for fun. Who care, when Star Wars invented so much scientific curiosity like blasters that make sound in space? (granted, they tried to explain that the sound of blasters was synthetized by a computer and played by speakers in the cockpit to help the pilots, but the fun thing is that it still works when you're powered down by a ion cannon blast ^_^ )
 

Koren

Member
Keasar said:
As I understand of this, instead of steering the ship directly, you would be giving orders like a captain on the ship while standing on the bridge. Sounds pretty awesome.
Have you tried "Nexus: the Jupiter Incident"?
 
Every X game (besides X-Tension) is fantastic. But I'm really hoping they try to consolize this a bit more. After spending so much time on such complicated games, I want an X game where I can just sit back and not worry too much about the little things.
 

Mrbob

Member
I've always been interested in the X series, but they have seem too complicated for me. Glad to hear the changes being made. I feel like it will be possible for me to play the new one.
 

Vano

Member
I like the idea of commanding ships and only fly (control) one, gives you the feeling of being a admiral of a space fleet and i hope they really improve and make more easy the Trader AI/UI, got to download addons to make it work nice.

But overall sounds really nice, come soon X Rebirth
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Sounds good to me. I like the idea of having a single big ship that I can modify and expand. Make it bigger to make room for more NPCs to join the crew, etc.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
I hope to god they have a good mission designer and writer on board for this game. While I love the X series in all its glory, the missions and story elements are absolutely terrible in every game. I hope now with the drones and all the other changes to gameplay theyll really put some time and effort into their mission variations and quality, as well as length seeing as recent entries have had about 5 hours worth of plot to go through. There hasnt been a game with the quality and variation of missions since Freespace 2 and to an extent later titles like Freelancer and I-War 2.

As well since theres gonna be so much NPC interaction and focus on plot presumably they better have a good scenario lined up for this game that doesnt involve massive swarms of angry cock, ahem Khaak. I hope they try and capture that sense of mystery and awe that space provides and have VA that doesnt grate your ears. Thankfully setting this way after the previous games with a totally reworked universe looks like theyre trying for something really different and a fresh start.

I have full faith in them when it comes to creating a jaw dropping, must explore every inch of it, universe, teaming with life and a vibrant ecosystem with a real working economy and all sorts of factors and solid space flight. Theyve pretty much got a lock on the technical aspects of making a badass space sim, but no so much on the more intangible aspects, but I know they have it in them.
 

Twinduct

Member
FUCK YES!
FUCK YES!


I Repeat, FUCK YES!

The amount of life I lost behind the X universe is sad in retrospect. But I can not wait!
I want to start my life as a small trader.

I honestly hope there is some built in editor to create decals on your ship!
 

Vano

Member
Did a fast search and found nothing and as i am not a member and cannot create threads, i will post this here:

A Christmas surprise from EGOSOFT:

X3: Albion Prelude announced

- X3: Albion Prelude released 15 December
- Bridging the gap between X3:Terran Conflict and the upcoming X:Rebirth
- Improved user interface
- New Stock Exchange feature
- A huge war and lots of new missions and ships!


Egosoft is pleased to announce X3: Albion Prelude, which provides a welcome bridge from the X Universe we know and love to the X Universe that will be experienced in X Rebirth. This new adventure will also feature more than 30 new ships and stations. A new Stock Exchange feature will enable players to speculate in local markets in a bid to increase their wealth. With this will also come tools to monitor and analyse economic developments and progress. Users with high-end machines will also benefit from some improved graphical quality settings. It is important to note that X3: Albion Prelude will NOT feature savegame compatibility with X3: Terran Conflict.

For owners of the X Superbox, X3: Albion Prelude will be available as a free download on Steam, while for owners of X3: Terran Conflict it will be available at the 'add-on' price of €9.99. For players new to the series, X3: Terran Conflict and X3: Albion Prelude will be available for purchase as a bundle. Time your purchase right and you could enjoy substantial discounts in the Steam holiday sale too!

X3: Albion Prelude will be available on Steam for direct download in English, German, French (text and audio) and Italian (text only). X3: Albion Prelude will also soon be available for MAC OS through the Apple App Store and Deliver2Mac. A boxed retail version of X3: Albion Prelude will also be available for the PC early in 2012.

201112_news_02.jpg

201112_news_05.jpg


Little interview about the game: http://www.egosoft.com/x/xnews/201112_1_44News.html

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpQN5E_lLrA

Source: http://www.egosoft.com/news/current_en.php
 

OatmealMu

Member
Every time I try to get into an X game, I stop at the same point: a fleet of around 12 freighters, some fighter escorts, and a corvette for myself. According to Steam, I stopped at 83 hours into X3: The Reunion. One day, I'll play long enough to be able to take over some sectors. One day...

Maybe this one will be different.
 

Aselith

Member
I don't know if people have seen this but here's some ingame footage of X-Rebirth it looks like. I'd never seen it before and I thought people might be interested. Trying to spice it up with a Progidy song makes it seem a little ridiculous though. Egosoft needs to fire their marketing team. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KeXU2vGa3Q

Looks really nice.
 
I lost hope that this would be a good looking game with this. How do studios release stuff like this. Those cracks on the planet are terribad. Not only are they low poly, they are textured horribly too.

You really shouldn't be able to get that close to a planet if its going to look like that. I'm sure it looks ok about 3 times farther away.
 
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