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X360 model with HDDVD player coming next year

Blaster1X said:
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12619



Just as Blu-ray for PS3 it'll be only use for movies.
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Your intentions are pretty transparent


http://www.us.playstation.com/PressReleases.aspx?id=279

PS3 Disk Media


CD


PlayStation® CD-ROM

PlayStation®2 CD-ROM

CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW

Super Audio CD Hybrid disc(HD layer/CD layer), HD layer

DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)



DVD


PlayStation®2 DVD-ROM

PLAYSTATION®3 DVD-ROM

DVD-Video DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW




Blu-ray Disc


PLAYSTATION®3 BD-ROM

BD-Video BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE
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Also, in order for X360 games to use HD-DVD, the userbase would have to be split...

X360 DVD drive uses a standard 650nm wavelength red laser with a 0.6 Numerical Aperture, whereas HD-DVD drives will use an incompatible 405nm wavelength blue laser with a 0.65 Numerical Aperture......

For it to work you would have to remove the red laser drive from the X360 and install a new blue laser....otherwise, this is just for watching HD-DVD movies, which is probably what MS is thinking because NO WAY are they stupid enough to use it for games too and split the userbase...
 
Blaster1X said:
Again MS said themselves they will consider HDMI in the future. That tells anyone with common sense that digital out is capable on the 360.
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Link

Unfortunately in the first version of the Xbox 360, that AV cable port appears to be strictly analog. Microsoft has indicated that they may support HDMI at a later point in time, but that may require a new revision of the motherboard - assuming there is no digital video signal carried over the AV port. On the flip side, ATI has had a history of placing TMDS transmitters on their GPUs, so it may be possible that a digital video signal is present at this connector today, although if it were we don't understand why Microsoft wouldn't offer a DVI/HDMI cable option now.
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I agree. If digital output was possible, Micrsoft would have already been all over selling a high margin HDMI or DVI cable.

So once again. ... /thread over.
 
gofreak said:
Err..we have. Asides from Sony's numerous proclamations about it meeting the needs of next-generation games, a number of devs have spoken about Bluray and how they're going to be filling it up pretty handily. Resolution has little to do with capacity requirements, in that 720p games can and will easily use more space than a DVD will accomodate.
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Pretty much, but you've got to understand that Blaster1X is a Xbox fan, the thing will try and downplay any advantage the competition has over its prefered system. :D
 
Wax Free Vanilla said:
Pretty much, but you've got to understand that Blaster1X is a Xbox fan, the thing will try and downplay any advantage the competition has over its prefered system. :D
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something YOU would never do lolamirite??? c :lol
 
Wax Free Vanilla said:
Pretty much, but you've got to understand that Blaster1X is a Xbox fan, the thing will try and downplay any advantage the competition has over its prefered system. :D
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If he's the same guy, he was also a hardcore DC/Sega fanboy back early on in GAF. Helps explain his stance on Sony more.
 
If this does come to fruition then I have to say, HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decision if its also for games. You can't do stuff like this AFTER you just had a console launch. I hope MS is willing to replace all the consoles they've sold and sell up until the launch of the HD-DVD Xbox360.

They will fragment their userbase even more
 
bloke said:
Current japanese X360 owners went mad over 'the news' on 2ch, it looks some of them already started calling MSJ asking for explanation, so if the news is false there should be some response from MS soon.
In the meantime Yahoo jp has new article on the subject, this one coming from different press agency, and it's mentioning possible release date; 'after next year's spring'.
http://gameinfo.yahoo.co.jp/info/headlines/jij/20051215/cpt/07010000_jij178.html
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Oh, say it again,

XBOX 360 PANIC
EARLY ADOPTERS AM CRY
HD ERA BOMBA TOTAL
 
xsarien said:
Bob.
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In Bob's defense (and I can't believe I'm going to defend that product - though I did have some friends on that product team), it was an experiment in social interaction for people using PCs. The product was done long before things like PiP and device drivers not being on the hardware, etc. were all a standard part of PC architecture. You needed to actually understand your PC back then just to be able to use it properly. PCs are still complex devices to own and operate for a lot of people and Bob was all about simplifying that for them, so while the product was destined to bomb (hardcore geeks controlled the market at that time) - it was well intentioned and I personally appreciated that they were giving some thought to helping the large numbers of people (especially at that time) who just couldn't use a computer properly and didn't care to try to 'understand' the thought processes behind UI design - and many of them still suck OSX, Linux, and Windows inclusive.

HD-DVD would be a move done almost out of spite. It would alienate a section of the user base for no good reason other than rushing to get a product out the door before the PS3. There would be a lot of ill-will in that sort of move, an intentional shafting of the XBox consumer. That would just be bad.
 
BlueTsunami said:
If this does come to fruition then I have to say, HORRIBLE HORRIBLE decision if its also for games. You can't do stuff like this AFTER you just had a console launch. I hope MS is willing to replace all the consoles they've sold and sell up until the launch of the HD-DVD Xbox360.

They will fragment their userbase even more
Click to expand...


Either that or they come up with some bastard connection through the IO bus of existing consoles and do digital output on that new add-on device. It would be totally stupid and self-defeating for themselves and the rest of the 'few' HD-DVD hardware providers, but its possible they could hack together a digital output path that doesn't use any of the ports on the box. Again, horrible idea and not worth the effort. But from an engineering perspective it is certainly plausible.
 
Phoenix said:
Either that or they come up with some bastard connection through the IO bus of existing consoles and do digital output on that new add-on device. It would be totally stupid and self-defeating for themselves and the rest of the 'few' HD-DVD hardware providers, but its possible they could hack together a digital output path that doesn't use any of the ports on the box. Again, horrible idea and not worth the effort. But from an engineering perspective it is certainly plausible.
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Most defintley but in all honesty, this seems like a knee jerk reaction. I mean, they probably were thinking about it before hand but it seems as though something "pushed" them to take the dive. If they seriously DO plan on selling 3.5 Million consoles in 90 days (debatable if it will happen but just using that number) you've got a HUGE amount of userbase that does not have this new Xbox 360.

I personally think it won't be for games (I see that its being reported as "used for High Def games" but that boggles my mind even more). I think it will be for HD-DVD movie playback...but even then, you've got the PS3 coming out alongside Blu Ray Recorder/Players. This move makes no sense to me at all. As you said, its not worth the trouble.
 
Phoenix said:
In Bob's defense (and I can't believe I'm going to defend that product - though I did have some friends on that product team), it was an experiment in social interaction for people using PCs. The product was done long before things like PiP and device drivers not being on the hardware, etc. were all a standard part of PC architecture.
Click to expand...

No, I understand what Bob was trying to do just fine. It just failed miserably at its task. :)
 
I wonder where these press agencies are getting the info from, as Microsoft hasn't announced anything about this themselves. The timing is particularly suspicious.
 
Striek said:
MSN Mainichi news is reporting that MS will release a HD-DVD version in 2006 to allow more hi-def games.
source
(via one at B3D)
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Why would they do that? Either this is a mistranslation or my mind will be boggled just in time for finals. :lol
 
Lo-Volt said:
Why would they do that? Either this is a mistranslation or my mind will be boggled just in time for finals. :lol
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Its not a mistranslation, it was printed in their newspaper as well. It could very well be a misunderstanding though.
 
Striek said:
Its not a mistranslation, it was printed in their newspaper as well. It could very well be a misunderstanding though.
Click to expand...

I hope it is. That's in Video Gaming Consoles 101, isn't it? Don't introduce more than one game medium for one console, like Sega did? Maybe it's Genesis/Sega CD 2.0 instead of what we feared going in.
 
Striek said:
MSN Mainichi news is reporting that MS will release a HD-DVD version in 2006 to allow more hi-def games.
source
(via one at B3D)
Click to expand...

?

So now we have - Core Pack, Premium and HD-DVD pack....

But will it 'allow more hi-def games' for those gamers who already bought Premium and Core Packs?
 
Jonnyram said:
I wonder where these press agencies are getting the info from, as Microsoft hasn't announced anything about this themselves. The timing is particularly suspicious.
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Sony viral marketers at it again? :lol
 
Actually, though I don't think MS would release an add-on for the X360 system, nor release a model that included the capability to play HD-DVDs...I think we'll definitely see at least one HD-DVD player that includes the capability to play X360 games. Indeed, MS has made comments in the past about wanting to see the X360 chipset show up in other companies' consumer electronics products. Think JVC's X'Eye or even what Nuon was trying to do. I could see a Samsung or other-branded HD-DVD (or even Blu Ray) player with the X360 chipset in there sometime in the next couple of years...
 
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
This would be something of a fist up the ass milestone for early hardware adopters. I dont buy it.
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Indeed. I love my Xbox 360, but if this happens my system is going on ebay and I'll forget MS ever existed in the console arena. Free upgrade for all DVD X360 owners.
 
I think we'll definitely see at least one HD-DVD player that includes the capability to play X360 games. Indeed, MS has made comments in the past about wanting to see the X360 chipset show up in other companies' consumer electronics products. Think JVC's X'Eye or even what Nuon was trying to do. I could see a Samsung or other-branded HD-DVD (or even Blu Ray) player with the X360 chipset in there sometime in the next couple of years..
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Quite likely, that was Microsofts original plan for xbox 1 but they couldnt get the support.
 
Quite likely, that was Microsofts original plan for xbox 1 but they couldnt get the support.
Click to expand...
And they'll make a real stab at those intentions this generation, I'm certain. It's something that Sony pretty much can't do, at least as widely as MS could, because Sony is a direct competitor to the rest of the CE companies out there. Imagine seeing cheap Wal-Mart stocked HD-DVD/Blu Ray players with the X360 chipset inside of four years and you've got MS lowering the production of its dedicated units, while making money licensing the chipset and focusing on software and you've got Windows situation 2.0, with X360 hardware inside of a fuck-ton of hardware out there... At least, that's the idea, I think.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
And they'll make a real stab at those intentions this generation, I'm certain. It's something that Sony pretty much can't do, at least as widely as MS could, because Sony is a direct competitor to the rest of the CE companies out there. Imagine seeing cheap Wal-Mart stocked HD-DVD/Blu Ray players with the X360 chipset inside of four years and you've got MS lowering the production of its dedicated units, while making money licensing the chipset and focusing on software and you've got Windows situation 2.0, with X360 hardware inside of a fuck-ton of hardware out there... At least, that's the idea, I think.
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Does it sell better than PSX?
 
MightyHedgehog said:
And they'll make a real stab at those intentions this generation, I'm certain. It's something that Sony pretty much can't do, at least as widely as MS could, because Sony is a direct competitor to the rest of the CE companies out there. Imagine seeing cheap Wal-Mart stocked HD-DVD/Blu Ray players with the X360 chipset inside of four years and you've got MS lowering the production of its dedicated units, while making money licensing the chipset and focusing on software and you've got Windows situation 2.0, with X360 hardware inside of a fuck-ton of hardware out there... At least, that's the idea, I think.
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Well done.......I give that spin a B+
 
Kleegamefan said:
Well done.......I give that spin a B+
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Hey, my XBOX spin >>> your PS spin :) Seriously, though...there's nothing to spin. This is MS' ultimate goal.

It's a perfectly feasible strategy, but one that is dependent on the cost of the hardware, in this case, the chipset of the X360, and the perceived value of the capability that comes with that hardware. Nuon failed because the platform had no value before they tried to get others to utilize it You can't sell people on a platform like that unless it has pre-established worth. For the last four years, with the XBOX, and over the next five-six years, with the X360, MS has built up and will continue to build up the value and recognition of the XBOX brand as a popular gaming platform. When it reaches a certain point in this new generation, MS will be able to sell other hardware makers on the platform, one that has real worth and can co-exist with the broad range of CE makers out there. Do I think it'll turn out to be something to kick Sony's ass? Not sure because it's way too early to tell. MS will try, though.
 
Mandoric said:
The question is whether they'll be able to talk any of the CE companies into that lopsided of a business model.
Click to expand...
Certainly, it's gonna depend on the cost of licensing/cost of the hardware. Almost equally, it depends, too, on how popular the system is this gen...at least, relative to Nintendo and Sony.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Hey, my XBOX spin >>> your PS spin :) Seriously, though...there's nothing to spin. This is MS' ultimate goal.
Click to expand...

Their ultimate goal is to just have their operating system running in someone else's hardware. If Sony or Nintendo picked up a variant of Windows to operate their consoles, the XBox would be out in the blink of an eye.
 
xsarien said:
Their ultimate goal is to just have their operating system running in someone else's hardware. If Sony or Nintendo picked up a variant of Windows to operate their consoles, the XBox would be out in the blink of an eye.
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I think they understand that isn't entirely realistic, so this is one way of doing it.
 
IGN is also reporting Microsoft's response to this.

Link


December 14, 2005 - One day after Japanese reports sprung up about the future of HD-DVD and Xbox 360, Microsoft has issued an official response.

Microsoft lists two points in response to the reports claiming that it has, as of the 14th, entered into final development phases with Toshiba and other HD-DVD backers to release an HD-DVD version of the Xbox 360 some time next year after Spring. The first point: "Microsoft, in both America and Japan, has not announced anything regarding the possibility of a next generation DVD drive being placed in the Xbox 360." And the second point: "There are currently no plans to release an Xbox 360 equipped with a next generation DVD player."

While the second point may be true, we'll point out that the first point definitely isn't. Microsoft, both in America and Japan, has made comments regarding HD-DVD appearing in future revisions of the Xbox 360. Whether more specific comments on the matter were shared yesterday with the Japanese press, either in an official context or while everyone was drunk off hot sake, is the question.
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bill0527 said:
While the second point may be true, we'll point out that the first point definitely isn't. Microsoft, both in America and Japan, has made comments regarding HD-DVD appearing in future revisions of the Xbox 360.
Click to expand...


Leave it to IGN to not understand the difference between vague comments and announcements.
 
bill0527 said:
But again, no one gets the fucking point.

THERE IS NO DIGITAL OUTPUT BUILT INTO THE XBOX 360 CONSOLE.

There is no slot for HDMI and no slot for DVI, therefore, NO HD-DVD.

Christ it isn't that hard to look on the back of your console and figure that out. The 360 does not have a pure digital out therefore, no HTCP, thefore NO FUCKING HD-DVD upgrade. It would have to be a whole new reworked system.
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I'm not sure that wouldn't entail the possibility of a HDMI adapter similar to the HDTV adapter on the Xbox though.

Here's what Anand said:

Anand said:
Unfortunately in the first version of the Xbox 360, that AV cable port appears to be strictly analog. Microsoft has indicated that they may support HDMI at a later point in time, but that may require a new revision of the motherboard - assuming there is no digital video signal carried over the AV port. On the flip side, ATI has had a history of placing TMDS transmitters on their GPUs, so it may be possible that a digital video signal is present at this connector today, although if it were we don't understand why Microsoft wouldn't offer a DVI/HDMI cable option now.
Click to expand...

Of course, that's just his opinion, but MS has stated that they wouldn't rule out HDMI if the market demands such. I can't believe that they would be so short-sighted as to alienate legacy customers just to satiate a desire to save a few bucks by not making it upgradeable if necessary. It would probably cost MS more to license HDMI than it would to make the board capable of HDMI output.

Either way, I guess we'll see eventually.
 
I'm pretty sure you'll never see a real (as in pure digital) HDMI cable for the 360, unless they revamp the hardware later on.

Something to consider is that I'm pretty sure that nice scaler on the output is analog only...
 
Yeah, there is no digital output on the chip at all.....how do they expect to transmit digital A/V data to an HDMI cable through that is beyond me...

Perhaps they will have a cable with an external A/D converter (gee, that sounds inexpensive) but even then, you have to do the extra A/D conversion which kinda defeats the purpose of HDMI....
 
So, the signal is digital until it hits the scaler, at which point it is output as analog. There's probably no way for a cable to grab the signal before it's passed into the scaler...unless they thought about it beforehand and allowed a cable to intercept it and feed it out in its originally digital form. Then again, if they did this, we'd have a DVI/HDMI breakout cable at launch. Weird.
 
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