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[monkeymagic]

Some colleagues just got back from CeBit and from what they told me and the brochures they brought back HDTV is about to hit Europe in a big way over the next few years with a unified standard.

By 2008/9 all 3 major territories will be HD enabled.

How many people will be saying 'who cares about HD' in 2008/2009 when XBox2/PS3/Rev will be mid life cycle.

 

[chinch]

Some colleagues just got back from CeBit and from what they told me and the brochures they brought back HDTV is about to hit Europe in a big way over the next few years with a unified standard. By 2008/9 all 3 major territories will be HD enabled. How many people will be saying 'who cares about HD' in 2008/2009 when XBox2/PS3/Rev will be mid life cycle.

and this relates to GAMING ON CONSOLES HOW?

xbox2 & ps3 games will be hi-res.

 

[border]

Like I said, BRD has already been announced for Playstation 3 so I don't really see the the point in this line of discussion....unless you are really considering how pricing will be handled.

PS3 is the company's trump card against HD-DVD, and removing it would probably doom the BRD format. They will slash the consoles' other specs before they take it out. Why do you think they revealed the BR-ROM aspect of the machine even before they revealed CELL? Standard PR procedure would be to reveal the features you are MOST SURE about first, and reveal other details as they are finalized.

 

[KingV]

BR could end up smacking Sony in the ass if the drives they put in are crappy. They'll be first gen Blue ray drives, so who knows how good the transfer rate and access times could be. We may end up seeing another sony machine with god-awful load times like the PS2. It clearly didn't hurt the PS2's market share, but then again it's certainly inconvenient, as I'd expect MS's decision to stay with DVD will let them use a newish DVD drive possibly giving them the load time advantage.

 

[seanoff]

I'm going to party like its 1999.

holy cow, everything is this thread is a re-hash of GAF circa 1999.

1999 - "including DVD will break Sony", "Who needs all that space", Its a FAD, No-one will use a PS2 as a movie player, etc etc

 

[chinch]

nah... it was marty debating dvd forum royalties paid.

people wanted dvd in dreamcast, but it was cost prohibitive.

huge difference here, but believe what you will and generalize as necessary to make your point

 

[KeithFranklin]

Xbox was pretty clearly being dumped in Japan. Too hard to say for Europe since the sales tax is so heavy and I don't know if that factors into international dumping laws.

"PS2 and XBOX did not use the same media"? Are you sure of what you're talking about here? Both systems use DVD media.

Panasonic cannot "sue" Sony for dumping because Panasonic is a Japanese company. Like I already said, dumping laws exist for protectionist purposes. Even then, they are pretty seldom enforced.

Other manufacturers will differentiate themselves from PS3 the same way they protected themselves from PS2. They will make more full featured players (most likely with recording capabilities). This is all a re-tread of the pre-PS2 nonsense -- none of which came to fruition. Sony never got prosecuted for dumping and PS2 did not take over the DVD player market.

Finally, HD-DVD will not have a one-year head start on BluRay. It's likely to be a matter of months if anything.

Well being someone that has sued people and been sued by people you are wrong. Anyone can sue someone and can be sued by someone. It is up to a judge to throw out the suit.

As for the media you simply read my comment as for DVD I was talking about they play different games.

Dont kid yourself about the BluRay DVD players differentiating based on other features. The estimates put base BluRay DVD players at $1000. Making them recordable and other bells and whistles will propably double the price to $2000. The bells and whistles just happen to add up quickly.

As for pre-PS2 this is totally different. When PS2 launched Sony DVD players cost from $250 - $350 and others were starting at $180. So how was the PS2 at $300 unfair competition. This will not be the case for the PS3. If is truly a BluRay DVD drive it will sell for $700 less then expected BluRay DVD players effectivly killing competitors offerings. I am not talking about the high end manufacturers like Denon or Onkyo. I am talking about Sony itself and others like Panasonic and Samsung that concentrate on the middle.

 

[sonycowboy]

Dont kid yourself about the BluRay DVD players differentiating based on other features. The estimates put base BluRay DVD players at $1000. Making them recordable and other bells and whistles will propably double the price to $2000. The bells and whistles just happen to add up quickly.

Blu-Ray recorders should be out by the end of THIS year for close to if not less than $1,000. By mid-to-late 2006, players should be sub $500. And Sony's going to have some serious scales of economy to help drive the component prices down. Along with HP, DELL, & Apple including those drives in their systems as well for late 2005, early 2006. Do you honestly think their going to bump up those systems by $1,000?

 

[Crag Dweller]

Blu-Ray recorders should be out by the end of THIS year for close to if not less than $1,000. By mid-to-late 2006, players should be sub $500. And Sony's going to have some serious scales of economy to help drive the component prices down. Along with HP, DELL, & Apple including those drives in their systems as well for late 2005, early 2006. Do you honestly think their going to bump up those systems by $1,000?

The only quoted price I've seen from CES this year is for a Tosibia HD-DVD player for $1000.00 available by Christmas. http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/others/0,39037627,39214104,00.htm Where are you getting your info about a blu-ray recorder for $1000.00 or under from?

 

[sonycowboy]

The only quoted price I've seen from CES this year is for a Tosibia HD-DVD player for $1000.00 available by Christmas. http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/others/0,39037627,39214104,00.htm Where are you getting your info about a blu-ray recorder for $1000.00 or under from?

I've seen a couple of articles, but just a quick search produced this:

http://www.bgsu.edu/offices/studenttech/didyouknow/march05/march05.html

Cost

Blu-ray Disc recorders are still new and with all new technologies, the cost is quite high. According to the Blu-ray Disc Association, the recorder/player itself cost between $1830 and $2150. This is because Blu-ray is currently being targeted towards businesses. Once the technology becomes a consumer-level focus, the price will drop significantly. Although the player may still be expensive, the disc media itself is priced at roughly $26. Since the disc is cheaper to produce than DVDs, it is expected that the cost per disc will decrease.


...

Where Can I Get One?

Currently, Blu-ray is only available in Japan where High Definition television is common. However, Sony of America's Senior Vice-President states that Blu-ray should be available in the U.S. around late 2005 or early 2006. The Blu-ray Disc Association estimates that the technology should be common in the U.S. around late 2006.

Basically, the cost of a Blu-Ray player / HD-DVD player are almost exactly the same. They use much of the same components, with the major differences apparently being voltage and lens focusing.

Now the media, is a different issue...

 

[border]

Well being someone that has sued people and been sued by people you are wrong. Anyone can sue someone and can be sued by someone. It is up to a judge to throw out the suit.

Well by that same mentality, Microsoft can be sued for releasing the new Xbox :lol Who knows what for....but since anyone can sue anyone I guess they share the same risk. Anybody can sue anybody, but the risk to Sony is small if the case just gets tossed out. Yet again, what's the point of all this discussion? Sony has already said that BR is in the PS3 so it's not worth speculating about whether or not they will have a BR-ROM drive.....and you're out of your mind if you think they'll murder PS3 by charging $1000 for the thing.

As for the media you simply read my comment as for DVD I was talking about they play different games.

BR players won't play PS3 games, so I guess no worries over dumping lawsuits there.

Other DVD players differentiated themselves from the PS2 by simply being more full-featured, if not recorders. BRD was designed for recordability (unlike DVD), so moving to a recordable format is not going to double the retail price.

 

[Crag Dweller]

Basically, the cost of a Blu-Ray player / HD-DVD player are almost exactly the same. They use much of the same components, with the major differences apparently being voltage and lens focusing.

I agree with you on this point. I just don't think we will see a Blu-Ray or a HD-DVD recorder for $1000.00 or under anytime soon here in the U.S.. It's also looking more likely that we won't see any blu-ray products outside of pc drives till Q1 2006. If that happens, then companies would be hard pressed to get any players down to under $500.00 by the end of 2006 as your earlier post suggested. Klee could provide more insight into this since he seems to keep his eye on these kind of things.

 

[kaching]

*shakes head* You guys should really keep up with Klee's BRD/HDDVD threads...

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=39157

That thread contains references to a standalone BRD recorder from BenQ coming before end of year for less than $700 USD and also reference to a slimline laptop HDDVD/DVD/CD drive to start appearing in high end Toshiba laptops costing less than $2000 by end of year (hopefully I don't have to spell out for you that the HDDVD drive doesn't comprise the majority of that cost).

I think pricing has a chance to get pretty reasonable rather quickly if these are the entry points for both sides.

 

[Crag Dweller]

I was talking about a recorder for hdtv/home entertainment not pc writers for under $1000.00.(The BenQ model you reference is a pc drive not a stand alone recorder) In fact that benQ writer is based it seems on the phillips design that will retail for $500.00 or under here in the U.S from reports I've read. http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CEStechnology/PhilipsAllinOneOPU81BlurayDisc.php

 

[ecliptic]

Sony will end up killing off Blu-Ray if they put it in the Playstation 3 at $300. When no other manufaturing companies can compete with Playstation 3's price point, they will opt to not support the format and switch to the cheaper HD-DVD instead.

 

[Vince]

Sony will end up killing off Blu-Ray if they put it in the Playstation 3 at $300. When no other manufaturing companies can compete with Playstation 3's price point, they will opt to not support the format and switch to the cheaper HD-DVD instead.

The Blu-Ray Format is, primarily, a recordable format. That's it's selling point, that's it's juice; in fact, I've only seen Blu-Ray recordable products from the major vendors. The BD-ROM spec was an afterthought likely injected into the Forum at the behest of Sony for PlayStation3.

How in the world sales of BD-ROM players which create demand for BD-ROM media that will create demand for the Blu-Ray format and, subsequently, recording to said format will in any way, shape, or form "end up killing off Blu-Ray" is just beyond my logical abilities appearently.

In the words of Carlos Mencia, "Then shut the f-up, I do believe I have won that argument"

 

[KeithFranklin]

border,

Your clueless. There was no way Sony could stand in front of a judge and accuse MS of uncompetive practices comparing the XBOX to the PS3. For what they did exactly the same (play DVDs) they were priced the same. Not to mention when the judge asks "how have your sales been hurt" I can see his reaction when he is told well we only outsell the XBOX 3-1 in the US. As for games they played different games at the same price. Not put Sony and say Panasonic in front of the judge. If BluRay DVD players do indeed cost in the $1000 range it is far easier for Panasonic to accuse Sony of of uncompetitive practices and a judge to listen if the device Sony makes that plays BluRay DVDs (not games) costs $300. Wont matter that the devices also plays games. It is the common functionality that the judge will make his/her decision on.

Now my point is I dont see how Sony will sell the PS3 for $300. Not that they wont sell for that. I am just amazed they will take the losses with the rest of the company performing so poorly and that they will undercut other portions of thier business. With that in mind what I said before, I wouldnt be surprised to see a last minute change and the PS3 end up using a standard DVD drive.

 

[Odnetnin]

border,

Your clueless. There was no way Sony could stand in front of a judge and accuse MS of uncompetive practices comparing the XBOX to the PS3. For what they did exactly the same (play DVDs) they were priced the same. Not to mention when the judge asks "how have your sales been hurt" I can see his reaction when he is told well we only outsell the XBOX 3-1 in the US. As for games they played different games at the same price. Not put Sony and say Panasonic in front of the judge. If BluRay DVD players do indeed cost in the $1000 range it is far easier for Panasonic to accuse Sony of of uncompetitive practices and a judge to listen if the device Sony makes that plays BluRay DVDs (not games) costs $300. Wont matter that the devices also plays games. It is the common functionality that the judge will make his/her decision on.

Now my point is I dont see how Sony will sell the PS3 for $300. Not that they wont sell for that. I am just amazed they will take the losses with the rest of the company performing so poorly and that they will undercut other portions of thier business. With that in mind what I said before, I wouldnt be surprised to see a last minute change and the PS3 end up using a standard DVD drive.

why does SONY need to sell the PS3 for $300. Even if the console launches at $500, it'd still sell. I mean if PSP is expected to sell out at $250, PS3 will be fine.

That bolded bit? You're delusional

 

[sonycowboy]

Now my point is I dont see how Sony will sell the PS3 for $300. Not that they wont sell for that. I am just amazed they will take the losses with the rest of the company performing so poorly and that they will undercut other portions of thier business. With that in mind what I said before, I wouldnt be surprised to see a last minute change and the PS3 end up using a standard DVD drive.

Why are you so sure that the PS3 will be THAT MUCH more expensive than Xenon?

Sony has a ton of advantages when it comes to pricing.

1) Sony produces most of it's pricy components in-house, so they don't pay extra for fabrication and they get to cost reduce the components as time goes on.
2) They are co-owners of most of the proprietary tech (CELL, Blu-Ray, GPU, Sony's investment in Rambus) so they aren't paying nearly as much additional royalty that Microsoft will be paying.
3) It's also coming out 4-6 months later in Japan and probably a year in the US.
4) If Blu-Ray makes it, they're going to be one of major royalty owners of the media, which has been major income for the DVD group.

Microsoft definitely has the advantages when it comes to overall bank account, but Sony has positioned themselves quite well when it comes to being able to put a ton into their box at lower costs than anyone else. And more importantly, they control the reduction of the costs in a way that just about no one else can.

 

[Pudding Tame]

First, is it really that big a problem not including a new media format that probably won't be accepted until the end of the console's life span (if at all)? Especially if the biggest draw back is only having to switch disks in the middle of a game.

Also, all the nay sayers are are blaming MS for not having HD-DVD drives, IMO it's the people behind HD-DVD that could end up being the big losers in this, for not giving them away to MS in exchange for instant market share.

 

[Azih]

Especially if the biggest draw back is only having to switch disks in the middle of a game.

Only drawback, from a gaming prespective.

 

[KingV]

Yeah, but I can count the number of NGC games that switch discs on my hands, and that format is significantly more limited capacity-wise then DVD 9. I can't think of any Xbox games or PS2 games that switch discs, though I'm guessing that there's some RPG's somewhere that do. I'm sure that the situation will be very similar next gen. There's very few games greater that are even close to filling a DVD out now, I'm sure next gen games will be larger, but multi-disc games will still be far from prevalent.

 

[Pudding Tame]

Only drawback, from a gaming prespective.

Yeah, but realisticly how many "average joe" consumers are going to spend a few thousand bucks to buy an HDTV and replace their DVD collection because they bought a PS3.

Has any of the big video rental chains signed off on renting any BR or HD-DVD movies yet?

HD playback won't be important until next gen when the sets come down to more affordable prices.

 

[sonycowboy]

Yeah, but realisticly how many "average joe" consumers are going to spend a few thousand bucks to buy an HDTV and replace their DVD collection because they bought a PS3.

Has any of the big video rental chains signed off on renting any BR HD-DVD movies yet?

HD playback won't be important until next gen when the sets come down more affordable prices.

There are already tens of millions of HDTV's (or EDTV's) out there. By 2008, the expectation is that 40% of US households will have HDTV (or EDTV . Japans adoption is ahead of the US. The lack of an installed base of HDTV will not much of a hindrance to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD's adoption.

Who the hell says you have to replace your library? The reason why people had to for VHS to DVD (or even Cassette to CD) was that the formats were incompatible. That's not true with Blu-Ray. You simply can start buying new content on Blu-Ray, which is where 90%+ of home video sales go.

There are a good number of reasons why Blu-Ray might fail as a format, but the reasons many of you are giving are just plain dumb.

 

[mrklaw]

Why are you so sure that the PS3 will be THAT MUCH more expensive than Xenon?

Sony has a ton of advantages when it comes to pricing.

1) Sony produces most of it's pricy components in-house, so they don't pay extra for fabrication and they get to cost reduce the components as time goes on.
2) They are co-owners of most of the proprietary tech (CELL, Blu-Ray, GPU, Sony's investment in Rambus) so they aren't paying nearly as much additional royalty that Microsoft will be paying.
3) It's also coming out 4-6 months later in Japan and probably a year in the US.
4) If Blu-Ray makes it, they're going to be one of major royalty owners of the media, which has been major income for the DVD group.

Microsoft definitely has the advantages when it comes to overall bank account, but Sony has positioned themselves quite well when it comes to being able to put a ton into their box at lower costs than anyone else. And more importantly, they control the reduction of the costs in a way that just about no one else can.

Nice post.

As to adoption of bluray - early on in its life it will be expensive and sell to videophiles. They will not want a PS3 for the same reason they didn't want a PS2 for DVD. So PS3 doesn't cannibalise bluray sales early on in the cycle.

 

[Nerevar]

There are already tens of millions of HDTV's (or EDTV's) out there. By 2008, the expectation is that 40% of US households will have HDTV (or EDTV . Japans adoption is ahead of the US. The lack of an installed base of HDTV will not much of a hindrance to Blu-Ray or HD-DVD's adoption.

Link? That's far and away the most optimistic number I've ever heard.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Yeah, but realisticly how many "average joe" consumers are going to spend a few thousand bucks to buy an HDTV and replace their DVD collection because they bought a PS3.

Has any of the big video rental chains signed off on renting any BR or HD-DVD movies yet?

HD playback won't be important until next gen when the sets come down to more affordable prices.

I'm going to have to agree with this, there's only so much money mommy and daddy will spend on little johnny, teens are still going to be strapped for money as always, and college students have other priorities as well.

I can see a lot of people buying HDTV's within the next 5 years, but not replacing their entire DVD collections, espcially when collecting them just got to br really widespread a few short years ago rather than renting.

 

[Pudding Tame]

Sony you seem to be misunderstanding me, I'm all for the spread of HDTV and a HD playback format, no matter what it is.

I'm just don't think that the HD install base will be big enough during the time of the next gen life cycle (except maybe at the end) to where an average buyer would choose to purchase one game console over another based solely because HD playback.

 

[KeithFranklin]

Nice post.

As to adoption of bluray - early on in its life it will be expensive and sell to videophiles. They will not want a PS3 for the same reason they didn't want a PS2 for DVD. So PS3 doesn't cannibalise bluray sales early on in the cycle.

First off PS2 is a totally different situation. DVD players had been out for 3 years already and had already dropped in price so that they were less expensive than the PS2.

The Videophiles (Raises hand) buy things early in the life cycle at huge costs because that is the only choice. Its not like the early machines are anything special. If presented with a cheaper, no much much cheaper alternative, most will choose that. Never has a new consumer electronics technology debut with 2 price points (low and high) so you cant claim from previous experience how this will play out. Can only use common sense. Common sense dictates that Videophiles research the equipment before purchasing and they will certainly know that they can pick up a PS3 for $300 rather than a Sony BluRay DVD player for $1000 and be nearly as happy with performance and ecstatic about price.

 

[Odnetnin]

Yeah, but realisticly how many "average joe" consumers are going to spend a few thousand bucks to buy an HDTV and replace their DVD collection because they bought a PS3.

Has any of the big video rental chains signed off on renting any BR or HD-DVD movies yet?

HD playback won't be important until next gen when the sets come down to more affordable prices.

What? I can't beleive you're saying this. Who would. Its about the forth coming titles on BlueRay.. The next pixar feature, the upcoming movies. Its not like we're all going to be chucking out our dvdplayers/ps2/xbox just because our blueray enabled PS3 is here. I have over 400+ dvds. I'm glad Sony went with the format; if only so we as gamers win; this statement has NOTHING to do with blueray movies but storage capacity for games. etc al.

 

[ypo]

Pay the fucking attention, Jesus. One of the big selling points for dedicated Blueray player is that it's recordable. PS3 doesn't have that. How many times should this point be repeated until you get it?

 

[Odnetnin]

Pay the fucking attention, Jesus. One of the big selling points for dedicated Blueray player is that it's recordable. PS3 doesn't have that. How many times should this point be repeated until you get it?

are you talking to me? What's with your statement. Who cares if its not recordable on PS3. Get a fucking BLUERAY player then instead of crying about it. The pluses of the blueray disc for PS3 is the storage capacity. If you want a PS3 that can record, ask sony to make one and pay a thousand bucks for it and have it called PSX3. And guess what.. I'm going to guess you're be bitching about that price too.

 

[ypo]

I wasn't responding to you!

I demand you retract your hate filled comments!!

 

[Odnetnin]

I wasn't responding to you!

I demand you retract your hate filled comments!!

my comments stand. Keith Franklin is actually right. You suck

 

[kaching]

Especially if the biggest draw back is only having to switch disks in the middle of a game.

The biggest drawback is actually more likely to be developers reducing quantity or quality of content in order to avoid releasing multi-disc games in most cases. There are a number of examples where this has occurred for GC releases of multiplatform titles. Multi disc games would be particularly bothersome in an always Live-enabled setup as well.

Also, all the nay sayers are are blaming MS for not having HD-DVD drives, IMO it's the people behind HD-DVD that could end up being the big losers in this, for not giving them away to MS in exchange for instant market share.

I think it's probably fairer to say it's a bit of both.

 

[KingV]

The biggest drawback is actually more likely to be developers reducing quantity or quality of content in order to avoid releasing multi-disc games in most cases. There are a number of examples where this has occurred for GC releases of multiplatform titles. Multi disc games would be particularly bothersome in an always Live-enabled setup as well.

I think it's probably fairer to say it's a bit of both.

The real question is how close to filling a DVD are most current games, and how much bigger will next gen's games be, on average? Certainly there will always be the occasional monster game that needs way more space than the Xbox2 discs allow, but will it be commonplace to have a game with highly compressed movies, or will they just be in 480p on Xbox2 rather than 720p or 1080i? That's still a downgrade, but nowhere near as bad as some of the really terrible artifacting seen on some gamecube games.

 

[border]

Not put Sony and say Panasonic in front of the judge. If BluRay DVD players do indeed cost in the $1000 range it is far easier for Panasonic to accuse Sony of of uncompetitive practices and a judge to listen if the device Sony makes that plays BluRay DVDs (not games) costs $300. Wont matter that the devices also plays games. It is the common functionality that the judge will make his/her decision on.

"Your" clueless. As I already said, anti-dumping laws are meant to protect domestic companies from foreign ones. Panasonic will not and cannot sue in the US because it's not a US company being attacked by a foreign competitor.

As has already been noted, other manufacturers are in the game of making BluRay recorders. That is how they will compete (or actually, sidestep competition) from a low-end BR-ROM. PS3 exists to cement BR as a content distribution format, and the other players are there to cement it as a recording format.

 

[Kleegamefan]

If is truly a BluRay DVD drive it will sell for $700 less then expected BluRay DVD players effectivly killing competitors offerings. I am not talking about the high end manufacturers like Denon or Onkyo. I am talking about Sony itself and others like Panasonic and Samsung that concentrate on the middle.

SO WHAT???

Look, the BRD forum is a consortium....all the BRD founders are QUITE AWARE of what Sony's intentions are with a BRD-ROM drive in PS3

Richard Doherty, Director of Panasonic Hollywood Labs has gone on record as saying he SUPPORTS the idea of an inexpensive BRD-ROM movie player in PS3...

This is hardly surprising since Sony is sure to sell TENS of millions of BRD-ROM drives in PS3....this would actually be desireable to the BRD founders as this gigantic (compared to HD-DVD, most likely) user base will not only help BRD eliminate HD-DVD but will help ALL the BRD members realise the ultimate goal....that is.... to allow more of the mainstream consumers to BUY MORE BRD SOFTWARE, where the *real* money is at...

If the words of the Director of Panasonic Hollywood Labs are to believed, there will be no dumping, sueing or much hand wringing over a cheap competitor in PS3 because just the very existance of this inexpensive and very mainstream BRD product is worth whatever product "canibalism" for the greater good of the format.....

Make no mistake, PS3 is *the* trump card for the BRD founders and was probably intended for the next PlayStation from day one...Hell, we @ GAF were talking about BRD in PS3 over a year before it was officiall announced because it is a NO BRAINER and somehow the other BRD founders weren't aware or prepared for this??? (*sarcasm off*)

Its going to happen whether we like it or not, but for shits and giggles, lets say there was no PlayStation 3 vehicle for Blu-ray?

Well, ultimately, BRD has many advantages over HD-DVD and vice versa...nobody really has a PS3-isque slamdunk trump card and so its SACD vs. DVD-A all over again.....

And besides, there are gaming consumers and there are Home Theater consumers and of those two, some are both (like myself)....

I am the exception, but I have three HDTVs....I desire a HD optical player and/or recorder for all 3 TVs and while my gaming room will have a PS3, the other 2 HDTVs will have higher priced, specialized BRD (and HD-DVD) player/recorders on them anyway...I have spoken to and seen that this is the exact intention of many of my fellow members of avsforums, for example (the early HD adopters)...

There will be *some* high-end BRD canablization by PS3, but I really think they are seperate markets, will be marketed as such and HD consmers who want to record HDTV (lots) will not look to PS3, for example...

Link? That's far and away the most optimistic number I've ever heard.

A study research firm In-Stat/MDR released Monday forecast that worldwide shipments of digital TV sets will reach 93 million units in 2008, up from a projected 17 million units this year.

http://ecoustics-cnet.com.com/Brigh...TV+sales,+study+says/2100-1041_3-5190195.html

the worldwide market for DTVs will grow from more than 12 million in 2003 to 118 million in 2008."

http://www.electronics.ca/reports/multimedia/digital_tv.html

IIRC, sonycowboy's numbers come from TWICE.com, which is an industry watchsite....you have to be a registered member to view the data, but I remember reading those numbers from twice a while ago.....sonycowboy, you can correct me if I am wrong..

 

[Nerevar]

IIRC, sonycowboy's numbers come from TWICE.com, which is an industry watchsite....you have to be a registered member to view the data, but I remember reading those numbers from twice a while ago.....sonycowboy, you can correct me if I am wrong..

yeah, I just realized that it was HDTV and EDTV - which I can believe will be in 40% of all homes in a few years. I expect flat-panel EDTV displays to really sell to a lot of casuals who just go to circuit city or whatever to buy a TV. It's at the right price point and it's got a lot of the whiz-bang features (flat, bright, cleaner picture) that are easily noticeable.

 

[teh_pwn]

This brings back memories.

Funny that people will defend inferior memory so much. I hope you'll enjoy your compressed PS3->Xbox2 ports.

As for people interested in the BR movie capabilities, count me in. I'm going to use it as my BR box for a while, probably with a cheap $400 HDTV (by next years prices, so like a 30" widescreen Samsung 1080i/720p set.).

 

[Kleegamefan]

Well, teh_pwn (god, I wish Xbox 360 had a name as cool as yours) you CAN get a 27-inch Philips widescreen HDTV monitor (1080i) for under $500 today so I think in 1 year you will be able to get 30 inch for 400 easily...

http://www.electronicsnation.com/en/products/flypage/prod_id/26PW8402

 

[teh_pwn]

I would get one this Fall for Xbox2, but I still have a year of college and co-op work left which means a lot of moving. A 30" HDTV probably weights a ton.

 

[sun-drop]

lol at the notion of the other BRD brands getting pissed at sony for trying to make BR a success via ps3 .... u HAVE to be kidding me.


anyways, could someone jog my meory and tell me at what point in time did sony make offical that ps2 was going to use a DVD drive and also allow movie playback out of the box?


and then contrast and compare to the timing of Blu-ray for ps3 PR from sony .... seems to me one of the very 1st pices of legitamte news for ps3 was the BRD news. CLEARLY of huge importance to sony that they are so eager to associate it with a sure fire hit like playstation.

 

[Crag Dweller]

Well, teh_pwn (god, I wish Xbox 360 had a name as cool as yours) you CAN get a 27-inch Philips widescreen HDTV monitor (1080i) for under $500 today so I think in 1 year you will be able to get 30 inch for 400 easily...

http://www.electronicsnation.com/en/products/flypage/prod_id/26PW8402

That brings up an interesting question Klee, will hdtv owners that don't have hdmi inputs(like the one you link to above) be able to take full advantange of what Blu-ray can offer?

 

[KeithFranklin]

border,

Ever notice that a US company (MS) has been sued in Europe and a Japanese company (Nintendo) was sued in the US.

 

[border]

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I've already talked about. Anti-dumping legislation is for domestic vs. foreign companies. Foreign vs foreign and domestic vs domestic are not applicable.

 

[KeithFranklin]

Notice that I removed dumping from the argument and simply changed to anti-competitive behavior, because dumping confused the issue from the real argument. I believe I only mentioned dumping in my very first post about this.

 

[border]

Well obviously lawsuits between multinational corporations are possible....though as it's already been pointed out, if the BR partners weren't okay with Sony's plans then they wouldn't be BR partners.

 

[Kleegamefan]

That brings up an interesting question Klee, will hdtv owners that don't have hdmi inputs(like the one you link to above) be able to take full advantange of what Blu-ray can offer?

No...

 

[Crag Dweller]

No...

I guess I was hoping that there could be some sort of reprieve for the owners of hd component output only hdtv's. Oh well, by christmas 2006 prices should be down enough to get a more capible hdtv than the one I have now.

Btw, how do you think sony will handle the output on games for the ps3? Will the same restrictions that stop analog hd from being used to playback movies on blu-ray media be in place for games also?