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[Gowans]

One thing where MS's policy is starting to look very out dated is in custom & community content. They seem like timid cats scare to go swimming dipping in their toes and then running away in fear of getting wet.

Forza 2s Livery function was a huge success and probably the one biggest success story about open community made content on consoles so far with the news and galleries & communities about this popping up everywhere, but did MS not learn its lesson? (looks like Realtime Worlds did with the APB news).

They have made gestures with XNA recently but it seems like that's all we are currently getting from MS

No news on UT3 Mods system? Rumblings of level editors discouraged in games & recently games file sharing systems removed before launch in the case of N+ where for launch all the customer level sharing tools had to be removed over MS's fears.

It's it really that long since the 360 and next gen games speech by J Alard talking about community created content being a key factor in the next (now current) generation of games? and where is it?

 

[Ghost]

One thing where MS's policy is starting to look very out dated is in custom & community content. They seem like timid cats scare to go swimming dipping in their toes and then running away in fear of getting wet.

Forza 2s Livery function was a huge success and probably the one biggest success story about open community made content on consoles so far with the news and galleries & communities about this popping up everywhere, but did MS not learn its lesson? (looks like Realtime Worlds did with the APB news).

They have made gestures with XNA recently but it seems like that's all we are currently getting from MS

No news on UT3 Mods system? Rumblings of level editors discouraged in games & recently games file sharing systems removed before launch in the case of N+ where for launch all the customer level sharing tools had to be removed over MS's fears.

It's it really that long since the 360 and next gen games speech by J Alard talking about community created content being a key factor in the next (now current) generation of games? and where is it?

Fear of Lawsuits, hacking, and diminishing quality of user experience is more accurate I think.

 

[DECK'ARD]

It's it really that long since the 360 and next gen games speech by J Alard talking about community created content being a key factor in the next (now current) generation of games? and where is it?

Velocity Girl is NOT happy.

 

[Draft]

I believe it goes beyond the "omg 400 MS points" burns that MS rightfully receives. I believe there are forces within the company at a very high level who are philosophically opposed to granting certain creative freedoms to X360 users. They are not comfortable with allowing people to add and exchange user created content on the system, and so they will not allow it.

I agree that it is looking more and more antiquated as Sony has made a big push for it and even Nintendo (NINTENDO!) are jumping onboard with the Smash level editor.

 

[Tieno]

One thing where MS's policy is starting to look very out dated is in custom & community content. They seem like timid cats scare to go swimming dipping in their toes and then running away in fear of getting wet.

Forza 2s Livery function was a huge success and probably the one biggest success story about open community made content on consoles so far with the news and galleries & communities about this popping up everywhere, but did MS not learn its lesson? (looks like Realtime Worlds did with the APB news).

They have made gestures with XNA recently but it seems like that's all we are currently getting from MS

No news on UT3 Mods system? Rumblings of level editors discouraged in games & recently games file sharing systems removed before launch in the case of N+ where for launch all the customer level sharing tools had to be removed over MS's fears.

It's it really that long since the 360 and next gen games speech by J Alard talking about community created content being a key factor in the next (now current) generation of games? and where is it?

Regarding UT3 usermods for 360, in a recent interview Mark Rein said it's not looking on good on that front.

 

[Dark Octave]

I don't think it's a fear of change as much as it is a fear of the loss of control. And I can't say I dissagree with MS 100%, but maybe they can ease their grip a little.

 

[PuppetMaster]

It's not fear. That is just their excuse.

It is loss of a revenue stream if they start allowing the community to start making their own content. The revenue that comes from making people buy everything from their market place. They don't want to ever lose a grip on that.

 

[Gowans]

OK take this gimping of N+

Why fear of lawsuits when its probably a lot less restrictive than what they have already done with Forza 1 and 2?

and its not a MS produced title?

That feature should be included

 

[Borys]

It's not fear. That is just their excuse.

It is loss of a revenue stream if they start allowing the community to start making their own content. The revenue that comes from making people buy everything from their market place. They don't want to ever lose a grip on that.

.

Microsoft, like every smart company, is all about revenue and money.

 

[Dark Octave]

OK take this gimping of N+

Why fear of lawsuits when its probably a lot less restrictive than what they have already done with Forza 1 and 2?

and its not a MS produced title?

That feature should be included

How did they gimp N+?

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

It's not fear. That is just their excuse.

It is loss of a revenue stream if they start allowing the community to start making their own content. The revenue that comes from making people buy everything from their market place. They don't want to ever lose a grip on that.

I have the feeling this is the real answer. :/

 

[Slavik81]

How did they gimp N+?

N+ was going to be able to do custom map sharing using leaderboards, but it was struck down by the Microsoft because there was not going to be a system by which the developers were going to judge and approve the content.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I agree that it is looking more and more antiquated as Sony has made a big push for it and even Nintendo (NINTENDO!) are jumping onboard with the Smash level editor.

Forge >>>> Smash Bros editor.

But regarding the OP, I agree, MS is restricting community content too much.

 

[Gowans]

How did they gimp N+?

Sharing your custom levels created in the level editor was an option in the game but MS showed some concerns and it was removed only the ability to share your created levels by being a mutliplayer host still remains.

 

[Mojovonio]

Because MS wants to lose the console race.

I don't know.

 

[Dark Octave]

N+ was going to be able to do custom map sharing, but it was struck down by the Microsoft because there was not going to be a system by which the developers could reject content created with the level editor.

That would probably reduce the need to buy a sequel or map packs as well. But doesn't Eets allow for level editing? But I have no idea if you can share user created maps.

 

[Mamesj]

It's it really that long since the 360 and next gen games speech by J Alard talking about community created content being a key factor in the next (now current) generation of games? and where is it?

Everything he was talking about was a euphemism for something you will need to pay for.
"Customize your dashboard" = buy gamerpics and themes
"Community created content" = ads ads ads and "sponsored" content
"velocity girl" = Harlot!

 

[Safe Bet]

It's hard to sell map packs at $10 a pop if you have users creating and distributing them for free...

 

[tanod]

Whatever they're doing now, it's a far cry from what they were saying LIVE would be like at E3 2005.

 

[Gowans]

Whatever they're doing now, it's a far cry from what they were saying LIVE would be like at E3 2005.

True true, bring back Alard!

It really does seem that MS are scared to take the leap into the this generation in some ways but then you have the MS published games like Forza 2 & Halo 3 Forge being leaders in this, it makes no sense.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

I don't want to see a scenario whereby anyone can put a mod up for a game, although some great things have come out of the modding community (hai counterstrike) there is also an absolute plethora of shit you have to wade through to find something that is worth your time. So I can understand MS wanting to ensure that what is put up on Live will provide a quality experience for the end-user.

But at the same time, I think that end-users shouldn't feel disenfranchised from content creation. The recent XNA announcements is great as it brings more content to XBL, but once you get past the PR and GDC speech all it will amount to is XBLA Lite, a place where MS can chuck a load of 200pt mini-games (And Dishwasher... ). The car customization in Forza 2 is great, even if it is freakin' time consuming to create anything more complex than Eric Cartman. Forge was a good idea, but I would hazard a guess that people are using it for tricks and giggles than any sort of serious level editing work.

The content creation we've seen in games so-far just about amounts to what one should be expecting from 'The Power of Next-Gen', but I don't think that anyone has created a robust and accessible tool-set through which people feel truly empowered to create good quality content.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Forge was a good idea, but I would hazard a guess that people are using it for tricks and giggles than any sort of serious level editing work.

Forge is resulting in some TOTALLY AWESOME user-created content.

 

[gkryhewy]

Regarding N+, that's really lame on MS' part.

 

[Slavik81]

The content creation we've seen in games so-far just about amounts to what one should be expecting from 'The Power of Next-Gen', but I don't think that anyone has created a robust and accessible tool-set through which people feel truly empowered to create good quality content.

XNA is fucking great, actually. They just need to prioritize it and fix up the rough edges.

 

[Confidence Man]

Far Cry's map editor was pretty good, and you could share your levels with each other. I think it comes down to developers' willingness to invest in something like that, and of course the fact that they'd be essentially working against themselves if they ever wanted to release marketplace DLC.

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

Forge is resulting in some TOTALLY AWESOME user-created content.

That is true, but the majority of people playing Halo 3 are not using it. They are logging on, killing their friends, then logging off again. Not enough is being done to attract attention to the things created in Forge into the consciousness of the average H3 player.

MS, or Bungie...I don't know who control it all... should be having weekly playlists whereby they select some of the better Forge created content for people to play. At the moment Forge still seems to be "For the enthusiast".

*I haven't played H3 since before Xmas...maybe they've added something like that.

 

[Ghost]

OK take this gimping of N+

Why fear of lawsuits when its probably a lot less restrictive than what they have already done with Forza 1 and 2?

and its not a MS produced title?

That feature should be included

Isn't N+ published by MS on XBLA? In which case they did the certification for it, and they charged the developers for that certification, I imagine certifying a custom content creator costs great deal more money. Where's the proof that MS forced them to gimp it and didn't just ask for more money to test it?

As you've pointed out, content creators like this one are already available in other titles.

 

[Slavik81]

Isn't N+ published by MS on XBLA? In which case they did the certification for it, and they charged the developers for that certification, I imagine certifying a custom content creator costs great deal more money. Where's the proof that MS forced them to gimp it and didn't just ask for more money to test it?

As you've pointed out, content creators like this one are already available in other titles.

Point 2.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9956831&postcount=582

 

[Psychotext]

MS is a massive target for baseless lawsuits. All you need are a couple of user created mod to infringe on someones IP or have porn / objectionable material in it and the hounds will come running.

...and MS is scared witless of that.

 

[Ghost]

Point 2.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9956831&postcount=582

Ahh, fair enough then, still that isn't really specific enough to say for sure that user generated content is a no-no. Does sound more like a 'we'll make money off the map-packs' thinking there though.

 

[xblarcade]

I've heard rumblings (not facts by any stretch) that the real issue behind the gimping was Metanet's ability to setup and maintain the servers needed for this feature.

If this is truely the case, I certainly don't blame Metanet, but rather MS for not having the hosting of UCC built into the live service.

 

[Draft]

MS is a massive target for baseless lawsuits. All you need are a couple of user created mod to infringe on someones IP or have porn / objectionable material in it and the hounds will come running.

...and MS is scared witless of that.

Come on. Sony may not have MS money but they aren't exactly broke either, and they don't seem scared.

I wonder... does MS open themselves up to any additional liability by making you pay for Live? Can Sony kind of wash their hands of any funny business on PSN by saying, "hey, it's free, it's there, what do you want us to do about it?" Whereas MS is taking money for the service, does that behold them to police it a little bit more actively? Genuine question.

 

[Psychotext]

Come on. Sony may not have MS money but they aren't exactly broke either, and they don't seem scared.

Sony isn't half the target for lawsuits that MS is... they're not scared, yet.

 

[Mrbob]

The answer is money. They want to profit off of everything now.

Their methods are starting to look old and outdated. As a user said before, it is definitely a far cry from what they talked about E3 2005. Sony is taking that ball and running with it. We'll see if they can keep up with this closed system. Giving power to the gamers to edit, create, and share is the future of gaming.

 

[phez]

Fear of Lawsuits, hacking, and diminishing quality of user experience is more accurate I think.

This. And the money. You know, trying to make a profit this time around? It really isn't much more complicated than that. If you want an open platform, just buy a PS3, where those factors don't matter too much to Sony?

 

[FF_VIII]

Forge is resulting in some TOTALLY AWESOME user-created content.

Put custom forge levels into its own matchmaking room then it becomes relevant.

 

[Mrbob]

Adding to my above post, I don't see what the worry is about being able to create and share content. If anything, this will keep gamers coming back to said game and not forget about it.

For example, imagine if Capcom added a level creator for making customer Mercenaries scenerios for RE5. It would be easy and friendly to use. You would be able to plop down enemies, items, landmarks, buildings just like setting up areas in Dark Cloud. Then you could save these custom maps and share them with others. Perhaps Capcom could have centralized download service where people could also rate the maps as well. Something like this would definitely make me come back to my RE5 disc to see what is new.

It doesn't even have to be something this advanced. A simpler game like N+ would have been amazing if you could share levels online. Sad to see MS struck this down.

 

[gkryhewy]

Well, this is good news re: n+:

Nick architected an ingenious level-sharing scheme which was disallowed at the last minute, but we will hopefully be able to do a Title Update to the game to re-enable sharing between all users when Microsoft figures some things out later this year, so get ready for that. Sharing levels is something that the DS/PSP versions should do very well, in the meantime.

 

[soco]

i believe their newfound focus on security is helping a bit to hinder their attempts.

not only that, but to implement this kind of thing decently, is a toooon of effort. they've got a lot of things to consider, that don't need to be considered as much elsewhere, such as age restrictions, broken downloads, etc.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Put custom forge levels into its own matchmaking room then it becomes relevant.

That's funny because I find playing custom games with my friends to be totally relevant.

 

[harSon]

XNA already completely shits on everything else community content related on consoles...

 

[ToxicAdam]

If Rockstar could get sued for their hot coffee mod, could MS get sued for having pornographic, user-created content on their service?

It seems like a possibility in today's lawsuit happy society.

 

[Ghost]

XNA already completely shits on everything else community content related on consoles...

Hopefully this will become abundantly clear when there's actually distribution method for it, gamers say 'nothings happened' but over 200 games were created for dream build play, that doesnt count all the engine and technology work that's been done, once there's potentially money in it I expect it'll grow even faster.

If Rockstar could get sued for their hot coffee mod, could MS get sued for having pornographic, user-created content on their service?

It seems like a possibility in today's lawsuit happy society.

Seems like their way around that for XNA is to not bother rating anything officially, and just class every single game as Adult Only on their parental lock software.

 

[onegoodlogan]

Xbox 360 & Community Content - Fear of Penorz

 

[Cynar]

Why have mods and level editors when you can charge for it as DLC?

 

[Dunlop]

The answer is money. They want to profit off of everything now.

Those fucking bastards, thank GAWD Nintendo and Sony are in it for hugs and tickles.

Their methods are starting to look old and outdated. As a user said before, it is definitely a far cry from what they talked about E3 2005. Sony is taking that ball and running with it. We'll see if they can keep up with this closed system. Giving power to the gamers to edit, create, and share is the future of gaming.

Putting aside your endless Pro-Sony lovefest posts, I agree that they need to open up LIVE but the probelm is:
- LIVE currently has no equal in terms of functionality
- Sony has not seen any noticable returns on "taking that ball and running with it", UT3 has sold like shit.

Until either of those 2 issues are addressed, MS will not feel the pressure to open up LIVE. Hopelly LitteBig Planet will at least address the 2nd point

 

[radjago]

If it's profit they want, they why don't they take submissions from users so they can regulate the content or pricing? Or better yet, let anyone put any user-made content they want, but charge for each piece of content uploaded and let the community police it through ratings and flagging, a la Youtube. Charging money should ensure only the best work gets uploaded and the crap level is kept to a minimum.

 

[Slavik81]

XNA already completely shits on everything else community content related on consoles...

XNA's fantastic, but it's not a replacement for mods and custom levels. I can't build a Team Fortress 2 level in XNA and play it with my friends. Nor can I install a server mod to help me admin my TF2 server. Or do custom stat-tracking, etc.

Putting aside your endless Pro-Sony lovefest posts, I agree that they need to open up LIVE but the probelm is:
- LIVE currently has no equal in terms of functionality

Damn right. Services like Steam and Xfire outclass it by quite a wide margin.

 

[djtortilla]

geez, why is everybody defending microsoft?


there is no excuse for this crap.


its the same reason, why you have to use points, pay $100 for 20gb and buy the official wireless headset.

they are just milking their customers

 

[JdFoX187]

I think it's a combination of smaller factors. Someone mentioned Microsoft is charging for Xbox LIVE and has made it a closed service, so the company is liable for anything that's put on the service. The Microsoft suits are probably scared shitless of getting sued over something to the extent of the GTA Hot Coffee scandal. It wouldn't effect their bottom line too much, but it'd really effect their reputation.

Also, Microsoft is getting money off downloadable content and that's a pretty big revenue stream. That seems to be the obvious factor as well. I think it's going to be a while before things change.