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[Neko Mimi Mode]

Can't speak for the Juniors, but I'm OK with the policies. They would negatively affect me (if I was buying XB1), but aren't as bad as I anticipated, especially coming from Steam, Origin, iOS and others.

Kudos to Microsoft for clarifying their policies when Sony don't have the balls to do the same.

 

[Dilly]

Because I own an Xbox and a 360, the timing is just coincidence. I really like Cerny and alot of things the PS4 are doing and will most likely buy one if I like the titles released on it. Unlike alot of people on here and other sites I have never had a problem with MS and I don't understand the massive hate because it seems that everything that comes out no matter how positive it is, is picked apart. Yet if Sony were to do the same thing it would be praised, talk about your double-standards.

It keeps getting better.

Do you read GAF with your eyes closed?

 

[Eusis]

No. There is not some anti Microsoft agenda here. Simply people voicing their concerns over anti consumer practices. I'm quite certain if Sony did the same, we'd have as much disappointment with their policies.
Probably more because they have already mentioned a few things that suggest the opposite.

Well, I admittedly can't claim complete innocence there, but my anti Microsoft sentiments were brewing over the last few years and I think I can attribute a lot of that to the course that ultimately culminated in this. Funny, given that going into this generation I wanted Sony to get a good throttling, though I guess Microsoft DID do its job there even if there's some minor issues (don't like how trophies further encouraged the notion of achievements spreading COMBINED with being unable to turn them off, and that "Only on Playstation" banner's a minor annoyance,) now it's Sony and Nintendo's turn to do the same to them, if not beat them out of the industry entirely.

 

[Sidewinder]

How do you feel about buying Steam games on discs in retail?

Don't like it that's why I buy them only at huge discount prices, no day1 on PC for me since I bought a new PC last year.

 

[theluma]

And I'm supposed to pay how much for this thing? Jesus Christ apart from anything else I DON'T support the used game market. Not because I'm above it or anything I just happen to not buy them. And yet we are just all getting slammed by drm. Makes me long for the days of swapping gb cartridges in the playground....seems a long way off now. I have to say if Sony pull this shit too, Nintendo will be feeling pretty good. Assuming the first real batch of wii u games is good why would anyone want to put up with launch game crap plus drm crap plus higher price point?

As it stands I'm really really hoping Sony have somehow dodged this bullet. I truly think that this is one of the most fundamental flaws a console(s?) has ever had coming into the market. In many ways more so than any kind of technical limitation.

 

[Perkel]

Wow. I always though all that talk about viral marketers infiltrating this place was paranoia, but this is pretty special.

If its like this here I'd hate to see how it is on the Reddit gaming sub. That place was already a hotbed of marketing employees, and it seems they're going all out on damage control here.

It always was true. Now consider places where there is no account approval like on NeoGaf.
Boards like GameFAQ are now probably infested with people who are defending MS for money and people are throwing shit at each other not knowing one side doesn't even care...

 

[TAJ]

wut?

Read the last few pages. A fun gif about it got reposted.

 

[~~Hasan~~]

Pretty much not, unless you count the virals. (several of them confirmed)

Really ? Lol what a low class attempt from microsoft. lolol i seriously just want to spit on their faces at this point. So sad

 

[Caayn]

Does Xbox Live Gold still count as a fee?

Knowning Microsoft? Probably not. XBLX Gold is just another fee you have to pay, to even get online with your games.

 

[graywolf323]

Can't speak for the Juniors, but I'm OK with the policies. They would negatively affect me (if I was buying XB1), but aren't as bad as I anticipated, especially coming from Steam, Origin, iOS and others.

Kudos to Microsoft for clarifying their policies when Sony don't have the balls to do the same.

what? seriously? Steam, Origin and iOS are vastly superior to this

 

[Perkel]

is there a reason yoy blurred your avatrar

That is a secret. Truth is, i did that to annoy people.

 

[Walshicus]

Don't like it that's why I buy them only at huge discount prices, no day1 on PC for me since I bought a new PC last year.

So for you, ceteris paribus, the existence of retail discs for Steam games is a negative?

 

[Pennywise]

I think all of the policies they announced are logical extensions of the fact that this is a digital-only console. The "retail" titles, such as they are, are like Steamworks games. It's not a retail+digital console, it's a digital-only console. I mean, imagine if a competitor to Steam popped up that had all of these policies. It'd be fairly standard--in some respect forward-thinking (being able to transfer a game you own to a friend, even once, is better than what Steam has right now; being able to trade in at select retailers is better than what Steam has now for both the retailer and the customer), in other respects a little behind the curve (offline mode being a 24 hour limit) I don't personally have a problem with digital only, I've got 600 games on Steam. And I'm generally a pretty future-proof kind of guy, none of my computers have optical drives anymore. I use Dropbox for everything. I love tablets I'm not someone who typically needs to be encouraged to adopt new tech or who worries about trading off the stability of current options for the cutting edge of new options.

But here are the problems:
1) No one views these policies as an advantage in any digital-only platform. They're a necessary evil. And they're one that's overcome with sweeteners. One sweetener is pricing. In Steam that's manifested in a few ways--frequent and steep sales on the whole catalogue, and the ability for developers to produce unlimited keys for free (and thus for third party resellers to sacrifice margin for volume and offer discounts). Will Xbox One games be $35 to pre-order? Will they drop to $5 within 6 months? I doubt it.

2) Digital-only PC platforms emerged in response to the decline of retail. Retail has not declined for consoles. It's still there. The Xbox One's direct competitors will have retail space. And the direct competitors will not necessarily have these policies. Maybe Microsoft ends up correctly predicting the future and riding the wave in advance, but it seems like Microsoft's competitors are healthy enough that this is too much too soon.

3) There exists no digital-only platform that requires an ongoing membership fee (or that encourages an ongoing membership fee). Ongoing membership fees tend to be for unlimited, all-access type services like Netflix--or even in the more limited form, Playstation Plus, or discount programs like Amazon Prime or Costco membership. It's true that Gold exists today, but today there's a platform that doesn't necessarily need the kind of sweeteners that the One will need.

So, I guess my conclusion is that given that we now know that Xbox One is a digital-only, not digital-first system, the policies are fairly unremarkable and the next question becomes how Microsoft will blunt these inherent limitations of digital-only systems and show advantages.

Quoting for those who missed it.

 

[TAJ]

Can't speak for the Juniors, but I'm OK with the policies. They would negatively affect me (if I was buying XB1), but aren't as bad as I anticipated, especially coming from Steam, Origin, iOS and others.

Kudos to Microsoft for clarifying their policies when Sony don't have the balls to do the same.

They're not avoiding the subject at all. They've said straight-out that you can use the console offline, period.
Of course, they could be lying.

 

[Leonsito]

Well, there are still some shitty things, but the rest looks way better than the rumors of the last months.

My biggest issue was the online-required at all time, a 24hour-check is a non-issue for me. I didn't want to have the Diablo 3 issues I had with random disconnects.

Kinect voice commands can be turned off completely, great news.

Used games doesn't really affect me, but it's a shame the new control over them from the publishers, let's see how this works in Europe with our regulations.

Regarding this last point, used games, things are not as worse as gaf has been saying this last months, we went from:

No used games at all -> Used games with a fee -> No fee

Of course there are still some clouds (lol) over this service, I don't understand the part of the "having a friend 30 days to gift/sell him your copy" he can't give it to anyone, eliminating third-hand sales, but can he give it back to me? the original owner?

 

[Ce-Lin]

forget down-clocking the GPU, we need to down-clock our Internet now, our games belong to The Cloud, the Microsoft cloud, as a game collector this seriously pisses me off to no end as there are certain Xbox exclusives I collect... I don't lend games so no big deal, I'm always online with no restrictions and good bandwidth but this stuff is legendary, as completely backwards and for sure they won't sell the Xbox One to as many gamers as they are selling the 360 to.

Of course there are still some clouds (lol) over this service, I don't understand the part of the "having a friend 30 days to gift/sell him your copy" he can't give it to anyone, eliminating third-hand sales, but can he give it back to me? the original owner?

"to anyone", this is, everyone includes you... so, no.

 

[Amatsu]

This sounds so horrible.

I can't stand when companies try to spin limitations as a feature.

It's like a homeless guy coming up to me and telling me he's going to stab me with a rusty knife, but hey, I should rejoice because it's a 6 inch blade and not a 12 inch one. Stab me blind, homeless dude! Stab. Me. Blind.

Fucking patronizing, their behavior and the way they word everything. Oh WOW MS, publishers ENABLE me to do something that I previously had more freedom to do??? Fucking thanks for that as yet unseen and unprecedented level of freedom... sign me up! It's the same shit politicians do when they don't want to be held accountable for anything, just fucking spin, spin, spin and dodge the actual questions/concerns then go on as if events never happened.

 

[Eusis]

what? seriously? Steam, Origin and iOS are vastly superior to this

May just mean that he's gotten so used to DD and depending on an account, but yeah, for me the additional stipulations are unacceptable. Especially since it's a closed platform which would have no real need for any of this if they didn't have their half baked compromise between digital ownership and trading in/sharing.

 

[Green Yoshi]

My friend hasn't got the internet. What do I tell him?

"Deal with it!" or
"Get the internet, it's awesome" or
"How about moving to another town?"

 

[jfoul]

All of this is going to be way too complicated for the average user. Parents buying consoles during the holidays should be interesting.

GiantBomb going over the drm stuff brings up even more questions.

 

[todog]

And here I am constantly complaining about the 3DS being region-locked. Christ.

And rightly so! Just because this whole DRM issue is fucked up beyond belief doesn't make a region-locked handheld console any better.

 

[TAJ]

I don't understand the part of the "having a friend 30 days to gift/sell him your copy" he can't give it to anyone, eliminating third-hand sales, but can he give it back to me? the original owner?

No, he can't. One transfer per game.

 

[Freshmaker]

When I saw that I interpreted "Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games," to mean they don't take an extra cut as a platform from third-party transfers, but reserve the right to do so as a first-party publisher for the games they publish.

I will not be buying and Xbox One.

I'm done with XBL gold after this year. There's nothing left to support.

 

[Sidewinder]

So for you, ceteris paribus, the existence of retail discs for Steam games is a negative?

No, I like collecting games and therefore I do buy games with boxes, but on Steam it has become more like the exception, I can buy Steam codes from all over the world for far less than I'd pay the disc here in Switzerland or even UK.

That's how I'm going to handle it, if I ever should buy a Xbone (very improbable) or a PS4 with the same DRM, no-used games etc.: Buy less games or when they get dirt cheap, because I often sell my used console games if I don't think they're worthy of my collection and that gives me money to buy new ones.

But that's not the only problem with the Xbone, always-online, Kinect mandatory, less raw power than PS4 etc.

 

[AGoodODST]

The required connection has, I think, even worse implications.. It basically means your Xbone is a time bomb just waiting to be turned into a brick when Microsoft don't feel like keeping their servers online anymore.

No going back to play your games 10/15 years down the line.

 

[Leonsito]

What the fuck? It was all true. All of it. And nothing about this is good.

I'm not talking directly to you, but taking your post as an example.

No, almost anything was false (or at least is false now, things could have change this last weeks), all the threads here were about, always-online, no used games at all and kinect can't be turned off and will be always listening, and all those three major points are false right now.

 

[amstradcpc]

Can't speak for the Juniors, but I'm OK with the policies. They would negatively affect me (if I was buying XB1), but aren't as bad as I anticipated, especially coming from Steam, Origin, iOS and others.

Kudos to Microsoft for clarifying their policies when Sony don't have the balls to do the same.

What the f?. People like to be directed by corporations or what?.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

They're not avoiding the subject at all. They've said straight-out that you can use the console offline, period.
Of course, they could be lying.

They haven't qualified their used game policies or any other issue which has already been proven to be insisted on by EA, Acti and Ubi. If Microsoft go ahead with this, it ties Sony's arms further.

I hope Sony go against the grain and deny it, but in the end I'll probably just buy the console with the best games anyway. I hate Origin with a passion but when needs must...

What the f?. People like to be directed by corporations or what?.

What kind of post is this?

 

[dragonelite]

Summary?

Microsoft wants to fuck people in the ass.
Most of us say, "no thanks. fuck off."
Some, "Sure, here's the lube"

Seems about right.

 

[IdiotMyshkin]

What the f?. People like to be directed by corporations or what?.

I like to be sodomized, but not THAT hard!

 

[Perkel]

Dude, you can't just ask that outright.

Although, I've been thinking, if there's Sony shills amongst the new juniors, they're doing a much better job at hiding than the MS ones.

Ofcourse they are doing better job. They don't have to even post anything.
MS is perfect marketing for Sony.


I already see commercials and ads everywhere:

"You can't lend your game to your friend on Xbox One, PS4 can. Buy PS4."

And that is simplest and best ads that can win over people.

That being said EU does not have gamestop or other centralized gaming shops beside UK. Most of countries used game market is 98% by ebay or other comparable services or simply person to person.

This is megakill for EU market.

 

[BuggyDClown]

Someone want to help me understand this 10 person thing about playing games. It confuses me.

 

[Shadow Ranger]

This console just sounds more horrible with each passing day. It's as if it's their first foray into the gaming world. As eveyone else says, Sony need to be really dumb to follow this. This is the golden chance to taken the baton and just run for the hill.

 

[amstradcpc]

I like to be sodomized, but not THAT hard!

jajaja, I edited. But well, yeah, directed by corporations = very hard sodomized.

 

[derFeef]

Ofcourse they are doing better job. They don't have to even post anything.
MS is perfect marketing for Sony.


I already see commercials and ads everywhere:

"You can't lend your game to your friend on Xbox One, PS4 can. Buy PS4."

And that is simplest and best ads that can win over people.

That being said EU does not have gamestop or other centralized gaming shops beside UK. Most of countries used game market is 98% by ebay or other comparable services or simply person to person.

This is megakill for EU market.

Wut? that's pretty wrong.

 

[Walshicus]

What the fuck?. People like to be sodomized or what.

... I hear it's popular with some people.


But again, your mistake is thinking everyone should see this as an affront, when clearly a lot of people are in favour or indifferent.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I can't believe people are OK with these rules, especially the way you can give games to others. One thing that does sound interesting:

•Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

But this sounds too good. What's stopping people from giving 9 other friends those family accounts?

 

[TAJ]

They haven't qualified their used game policies or any other issue which has already been proven to be insisted on by EA, Acti and Ubi. If Microsoft go ahead with this, it ties Sony's arms further.

I hope Sony go against the grain and deny it, but in the end I'll probably just buy the console with the best games anyway. I hate Origin with a passion but when needs must...

I don't see how it's necessary to clarify further. One-style DRM needs frequent authentication unless their DRM is actually worse and doesn't allow sharing or trade-ins of any kind.

 

[Perkel]

I'm not talking directly to you, but taking your post as an example.

No, almost anything was false (or at least is false now, things could have change this last weeks), all the threads here were about, always-online, no used games at all and kinect can't be turned off and will be always listening, and all those three major points are false right now.

No they are not.

- It is almost always online (remember 1h of play ?)
- there will be no used market at start (tweet)
- and kinect always listens even if your xbox is off and waits for "xbox on"

All of that is more or less what was leaked with few patches but doesn't change fundamental things for this console.

 

[amstradcpc]

... I hear it's popular with some people.


But again, your mistake is thinking everyone should see this as an affront, when clearly a lot of people are in favour or indifferent.

Well, then only hope not the majority of the people is like that or our future as a species will be like "Blade Runner" ( i am not talking about the sodomizing part by the way .

 

[Ashes]

reads op...

 

[Walshicus]

No they are not.

- It is almost always online (remember 1h of play ?)
- there will be no used market at start (tweet)
- and kinect always listens even if your xbox is off and waits for "xbox on"

All of that is more or less what was leaked with few patches but doesn't change fundamental things for this console.

You can disable the Kinect listening for "Xbox On".

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

I'm not talking directly to you, but taking your post as an example.

No, almost anything was false (or at least is false now, things could have change this last weeks), all the threads here were about, always-online, no used games at all and kinect can't be turned off and will be always listening, and all those three major points are false right now.

There were many issues and you have just lumped them into this one sentence which is just wrong.

Always online - People knew it was 24 hours before MS confirmed it. Plus it's more like online required which isn't exactly better. Ms have confirmed what we had heard

No used games at all - I don't know who thought that but we heard of fees and restrictions on trading and selling games. Ms have confirmed what we thought

Kinect Always Online - Even if you turn it off isn't it still listening for that 'Xbox On' command? Just how 'off' is it really if it still has to be connected to the Xbox

At least 2 points out of the 3 actually happened. The Kinect thing is sketchy at best.

 

[soulassssns]

reads op...

Where is the version with the Xbone in it? Lol

 

[Aiii]

I'm sure Sony is feeling some pressure from big publishers to follow Microsofts model and who knows, maybe they are.

It would be pretty dumb, if they didn't follow MS and kept things as they are the consumers will likely flock to them. The publishers, even if they would initially be threatening Sony to boycot their system in favor of the Xbone, will always follow where the gamers are.

So, lets hope Sony is not doing any of this, so we can add this trend finally.

 

[Hackbert]

Ofcourse they are doing better job. They don't have to even post anything.
MS is perfect marketing for Sony.


I already see commercials and ads everywhere:

"You can't lend your game to your friend on Xbox One, PS4 can. Buy PS4."

And that is simplest and best ads that can win over people.

That being said EU does not have gamestop or other centralized gaming shops beside UK. Most of countries used game market is 98% by ebay or other comparable services or simply person to person.

This is megakill for EU market.

mhh? not totally correct. i guess gamestop is not so well spread in Europe as in the US, but even in smaller cities you will find these silly stores. I shuckle everytime, when i see games which are now free, selled for nearly full price to the ignorant. ( in this case DC Universe Heroes)

 

[Ce-Lin]

jajaja, I edited. But well, yeah, directed by corporations = very hard sodomized.

jaja ? Spain GAF oh I'm not alone : )

 

[Hackbert]

jaja ? Spain GAF oh I'm not alone : )

?? Spain? Ja means yes in german. you learn something new every day ^^

 

[amstradcpc]

jaja ? Spain GAF oh I'm not alone : )

We are legion!. I prefer "jajaja" to "LOL" but i forget in english forums people don´t understand it . The same happens to me with the "eh", writing "huh" sounds strange...

 

[romulus91]

So many junior apologists. It's just crazy and disgusting, given the matter XD

well let me speak on behalf ....... fuck . that. noise............ just because these 'requirements' dont affect you now does not mean taking away those rights is somehow ok. i think the majority of gaf see this as an indication of what the industry will become and it does not look good