notoccupanther
Member
Your home router will have a single IP range .. usually 192.168.1.0 ... so any device that connects will be within this range ... hence same 'family' ..
that's my deduction from it anyways .. willing to be corrected
Xbox One: Details on Connectivity, Licensing (24 hour check-in) and Privacy Features
- Thread starter mcfrank
- Start date
Your home router will have a single IP range .. usually 192.168.1.0 ... so any device that connects will be within this range ... hence same 'family' ..
that's my deduction from it anyways .. willing to be corrected
IdiotMyshkin
Banned
That damn box never has anything but the latest lego game in it.
Woo-Fu
Banned
What's so shocking? Microsoft broke them in with the multiplayer tax.
hgarrett54
Banned
Yeah. I only use my xbox for MP anyway ._.
AtomicShroom
Member
Pretty much. Anyone thinking MS hasn't thought this through and didn't think people would try to abuse it by having friends pooling together to share games are simply delusional.
Impeccable
Member
Now the initial outrage has calmed down both "more rational" Microsoft fans and the ones who are paid to do it for a living have an opportunity to change the tone of the discussion whether right or wrong. That's what we're seeing now. It's not just a voice in a hurricane today - expect more of it.
Beelzebubs
Member
You know with all this anti consumerism from MS and presumably Sony how long do you think it will take for massive DDoS attacks against their servers so people can't play single player games.
Black Republican
Member
So you can turn off Kinect?
IdiotMyshkin
Banned
Launch Day?
RepairmanJack
Member
No, it doesn't sound firmiliar... Sony pretty much says it's how it is right now. To register a game online is completely up to the publishers as it is now. Xbone requires the internet and confirming the game on every single game. There is a big difference. If sony comes out and says no console drm but publishers like EA, Ubisoft and Activision will require you to activate your game I will be 100% more satisfied with that than I am with Xbone. Don't see how those are the same...
Sounds like an online-pass. We'll know in a few days what SONY will be doing because Eurogamer will demand an answer to that question.
Yeah Sony has been saying this and putting the blame on Publishers from day one. Don't know why MS didn't say that from the beginning (unless they recently adopted Sonys model after the outrage) Sounds like there will be activation codes in those boxes for PS4. They have also said the system can be played without internet so that seems to be the difference at this point.
Cherry picking comments ?
There is a 17 page thread full of quotes from Aony saying the PS4 doesn't ever need to be connected to the net.
When they announce their DRM it can't possibly be as restrictive as Microsofts.
dreamer3kx
Member
Biggest thing for me is not being able to sell my games, I sell my games pretty frequently whether its on forums or craigslist, NOT GS, not one of those people who holds on to everything for long, Im hoping Sony doesn't do this or if so has a much better plan.
GlamFM
Banned
Oh.. so I guess you haven´t actually read what MS had to say.
MS also puts everything on 3rd parties.
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/an-xbox-one-drm-breakdown/2300-7459/
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I guess if you have no friends to borrow games with, have great internet, and never sell any of your games ever, you're ok with this. For the rest of us, the hobby isn't evolving in a way that benefits us.
GlamFM
Banned
I can see a situation where SONY sais you can play frist party games offline, but for third party games you will have to follow their rules.
I can´t see a scenario where 3rd parties would be cool with SONY not having those systems in place.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Just saw this on another forum:
shinra-bansho
Member
There is a system-wide internet-based DRM, regardless of the publisher. :\
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Hahaha you know you can go online (or use their app) and search to see which loaction has the game you're looking for? You can even reserve it online. I know my area has Redboxes all over the place, so you'll probably find what you need close by.
GlamFM
Banned
ThisWreckage
Banned
Gamers are among the most stupid demographic in entertainment. Is there a demographic that willingly, and happily, bends over as much as a lot of gamers? This is the same demographic that openly embraced DLC, faulty hardware, a paywall tax, and a paywall tax increase in one generation. Christ all mighty.
the way it is worded, 1 family member can access library at the time, not specific game.
they made it very complicated to understand on purpose. Although it is very short sighted purpose.
I've already considered going Nintendo only, this would cement it if Sony followed suit.
disastermouse
Banned
I haven't been able to read this entire massive thread but I have a few thoughts:
1. Microsoft may be effectively causing PCs to have a resurgence, as for now, mobile platforms simply don't have enough power to match PCs. Steam is an overwhelmingly better deal than what MS is offering.
2. They effectively HAVE addressed game rental, as that's what this licensing scheme IS, albeit it's long-term, limited use rental. Games on Xbone are basically rental-only at full ownership cost on a very limited and controlled format.
1. Microsoft may be effectively causing PCs to have a resurgence, as for now, mobile platforms simply don't have enough power to match PCs. Steam is an overwhelmingly better deal than what MS is offering.
2. They effectively HAVE addressed game rental, as that's what this licensing scheme IS, albeit it's long-term, limited use rental. Games on Xbone are basically rental-only at full ownership cost on a very limited and controlled format.
gutter_trash
Banned
if Sony goes down the same route, we will see an industry crash coming from consumer backlash
Consumers will stop buying consoles = video-game crash of 2014-15
Consumers will stop buying consoles = video-game crash of 2014-15
Sony have said , explicitly , that the console was designed without the requirement to EVER connect to the net.
Publishers may well implement used game DRM on the PS4, but it's unlikely that it will be online based.
If they back track I have no doubt they are for a world of shit.
theDeeDubs
Member
I agree. The only other option will be PC era CD keys. If Sony goes that route, Sony will end up having the MORE restrictive system. You wouldn't be able to share or trade games at all then. Would be ironic.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Amazing. WOW. So Next Gen. The Future. So Incredible. So Dealing With. Such PR. Double Rainbowing.
The 3rd party publisher opt-in is particularly troubling for the ownership transfer stuff. There are publishers that if given an option to restrict the number of times you can play a demo, they will set it to some ridiculously low number. If these guys think that people's ability to play demos for many number of times is a lost sale, what about enabling actual lost sales?
RepairmanJack
Member
Have you? That's giantbombs understanding of it, which I also think is wronga and blindly optimistic. The only single thing they say that is up to the publishers is reselling the games. Actually read what MS has put out, not someones interpretation of it. They say reselling and trading in games and the transfer of games is up to the publishers, all that means is the publishers that chose to do so can put a stop to that. Why would MS make a point of making all these restrictions and then say publishers can just ignore them? That wouldn't happen, the 24 hour check, the one game transfer, the approved retailers is all system wide. Plain and simple, you're just chosing how you want to see it, in the best light possible.
"We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers." That's the only time they mention publishers having a decision. All this means is publishers can say you can't trade in your games at MS's approved retailers.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
What I can't wait to see is how this will affect the mainstream success of the XBO.
Jack Videogames
Member
That won't happen. In this market, informed customers are the minority - they're shooting for the Blue Ocean of "OMG TEEVEE AND GAMES IN ONE!!"-like customers.
Castef
Banned
Also, no DRM issues on PCs!
I believe the family thing applies to only one console. Not sure though, I skimmed over that part.
People have been saying this all the time whenever you get bad news from xbox one.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Everyone likes a good fuck as long as you lube up first.
MMaRsu
Banned
.My thread got closed... I'm assuming because the mods thought it was too close of a duplicate to this thread. I don't know. Still I'd like to give people a better chance to read my thoughts relating to this announcement so I'll post them here. If this is violating some sort of GAF policy, please can someone let me know?
My thoughts were specifically regarding:
'Owning' your Xbox One Games, taking into account their latest information brief as detailed in the link provided by this OP.
My view was tailored for those of us who see games not just as a disposable or transient experience but who collect and perhaps re-visit those games many years, even decades after their orginal release. With Microsoft recently confirming many details of how they are going to apporach Licensing and Connectivity Features, we can now disect and predict with a greater degree of accuracy how they might allow the playing of Xbox One games, both now and well into the future.
Firstly lets examine some of the key points from Microsoft's new Official announcement:
From this point we can see that the ability to play your Xbox One games is tied directly to the ability of your Xbox One to connect and communicate with the Xbox One Online servers. Hence after 24 hours if there are no servers... your games will not work. Again your entire game collection is only playable while Microsoft allow you to play them. This is a mechanism Microsoft have complete control over.
Various reasons exist why servers for multi-player games are eventually shut down. These include cost, lack of players and the need to encourage remaining players to role-over or buy into the latest product. For Xbox One - Every game, be it Single player or Multi-player, now require an online connection to 'check-in'. Microsoft have not and are unlikely to say that they will maintain this 'check-in' service indefinitely.
Then there is this:
As stated above, one of the primary reasons why support for older games get cut, is cost versus return. As the Xbox One ages and Microsoft eventually turns to its successor, certain questions arise. Specifically how long will it be viable for Microsoft to hold potentially hundreds if not thousands of digital copies of games in the cloud, which data I assume would need to be duplicated across multiple servers in different regions to maintain reasonable speeds. Remembering that their focus will be to shift resources towards their Xbox One successor. Clouds are a great idea but they need to be powered and have a considerable expense attached. Considering the modern game can run into tens of gigabytes, it seems not a matter of if, but when those clouds services will need to be put to more profitable uses.
Also there is this:
The key words in the quote above are 'opt in or out' and 'terms'. From this we can safely assume there will be a detailed EULA (End User License Agreement) attached to all Xbox One software. In terms of collecting older classics for the system that may end up being out of production, options may be limited or non-existent depending on what the publisher chose back in the day. To achieve the resale of games as stated, it is assumed this process will have to use either electronic or software based DRM. Either way, there will be costs associated with such a system, including implementing, accessing, maintaining, and expanding or adding to such a system. Yes even if its database driven.
The bottom line is, these costs will need to be recovered not just while the system is popular and in use, but into the future when support for the device slows or comes to a halt. If the DRM system that supports the resale or purchase of these games is closed down, how then do you acquire rare or earlier games that are no longer in production.
My thoughts were specifically regarding:
'Owning' your Xbox One Games, taking into account their latest information brief as detailed in the link provided by this OP.
My view was tailored for those of us who see games not just as a disposable or transient experience but who collect and perhaps re-visit those games many years, even decades after their orginal release. With Microsoft recently confirming many details of how they are going to apporach Licensing and Connectivity Features, we can now disect and predict with a greater degree of accuracy how they might allow the playing of Xbox One games, both now and well into the future.
Firstly lets examine some of the key points from Microsoft's new Official announcement:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/connected
From this point we can see that the ability to play your Xbox One games is tied directly to the ability of your Xbox One to connect and communicate with the Xbox One Online servers. Hence after 24 hours if there are no servers... your games will not work. Again your entire game collection is only playable while Microsoft allow you to play them. This is a mechanism Microsoft have complete control over.
Various reasons exist why servers for multi-player games are eventually shut down. These include cost, lack of players and the need to encourage remaining players to role-over or buy into the latest product. For Xbox One - Every game, be it Single player or Multi-player, now require an online connection to 'check-in'. Microsoft have not and are unlikely to say that they will maintain this 'check-in' service indefinitely.
Then there is this:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/connected
As stated above, one of the primary reasons why support for older games get cut, is cost versus return. As the Xbox One ages and Microsoft eventually turns to its successor, certain questions arise. Specifically how long will it be viable for Microsoft to hold potentially hundreds if not thousands of digital copies of games in the cloud, which data I assume would need to be duplicated across multiple servers in different regions to maintain reasonable speeds. Remembering that their focus will be to shift resources towards their Xbox One successor. Clouds are a great idea but they need to be powered and have a considerable expense attached. Considering the modern game can run into tens of gigabytes, it seems not a matter of if, but when those clouds services will need to be put to more profitable uses.
Also there is this:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license
The key words in the quote above are 'opt in or out' and 'terms'. From this we can safely assume there will be a detailed EULA (End User License Agreement) attached to all Xbox One software. In terms of collecting older classics for the system that may end up being out of production, options may be limited or non-existent depending on what the publisher chose back in the day. To achieve the resale of games as stated, it is assumed this process will have to use either electronic or software based DRM. Either way, there will be costs associated with such a system, including implementing, accessing, maintaining, and expanding or adding to such a system. Yes even if its database driven.
The bottom line is, these costs will need to be recovered not just while the system is popular and in use, but into the future when support for the device slows or comes to a halt. If the DRM system that supports the resale or purchase of these games is closed down, how then do you acquire rare or earlier games that are no longer in production.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
And that's still better then what Microsoft is offering. My PS4 wont be a brick after being offline after 24 hours and I can still buy Sony games (The main reason im buying the damn thing) without any changes if those are the rules in place. Microsoft killed any interest I have in the system by making me check in all the time.
All they had to do was put the same system in place that Sony is proposing and I would have bought a Xbone for Microsoft games and ignore all of the games from these
publishers. Microsoft putting these stupid system based rules in place took me from buying an Xbone and buying a couple exclusives a year to never wanting an Xbone at all.
R_thanatos
Member
lol this is comedy gold.
MikeE21286
Member
This is my profile:
I buy only new games
I sell these games back (not all, but some) via eBay, Amazon Marketplace, Amazon (directly), Best Buy, or Gamestop
The thing that pisses me off the most is the fact that not only do I lose lots of that ability, but games also lose their life and are tied to a server. It's games as a service and it sucks. I don't own anything.
If I ever do end up buying an Xbox One this type of practice will SEVERELY limit the amount of games I buy. The only way they can combat this is buy having extremely deep-discount sales (a la Steam). The most I've ever paid for a digital only game is $35.
I buy only new games
I sell these games back (not all, but some) via eBay, Amazon Marketplace, Amazon (directly), Best Buy, or Gamestop
The thing that pisses me off the most is the fact that not only do I lose lots of that ability, but games also lose their life and are tied to a server. It's games as a service and it sucks. I don't own anything.
If I ever do end up buying an Xbox One this type of practice will SEVERELY limit the amount of games I buy. The only way they can combat this is buy having extremely deep-discount sales (a la Steam). The most I've ever paid for a digital only game is $35.
RepairmanJack
Member
Even if you didn't skim the part was specifically vague. There will be restrictions and they aren't talking about those restrictions.
So, 24 hour check in officially confirmed.
Nope. Never getting an Xbox One.
I will not pay to lease games. If I buy a single player game I want it to work now or 20+ years from now.
Imagine a world where every NES cartridge, all expired and didn't work all at the same time when the every 24 hour "permission to play" servers were determined to no longer be necessary.
Nope. Never getting an Xbox One.
I will not pay to lease games. If I buy a single player game I want it to work now or 20+ years from now.
Imagine a world where every NES cartridge, all expired and didn't work all at the same time when the every 24 hour "permission to play" servers were determined to no longer be necessary.
I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but the topic is a bit too big at this point to go hunting for the answer:
What happens when the next-gen Xbox is released 8 or 10 years from now or the Xbox after that? I mean typically publishers and developers stop hosting servers and providing support to old software and hardware once replacement merchandise is released. You don't see Nintendo offering much in the way of support for NES, SNES, N64, or Cube. How will people play their Xone games years from now? Sure, the next system could be backwards compatible, but given MS record of this (360 isn't 100% BC and Xone isn't BC at all) why should anyone expect otherwise moving forward??? It sounds like people are going to invest a ton of money into this, and then 2 or so years after its successor is released, but out of luck and unable to play any if their old games.
What happens when the next-gen Xbox is released 8 or 10 years from now or the Xbox after that? I mean typically publishers and developers stop hosting servers and providing support to old software and hardware once replacement merchandise is released. You don't see Nintendo offering much in the way of support for NES, SNES, N64, or Cube. How will people play their Xone games years from now? Sure, the next system could be backwards compatible, but given MS record of this (360 isn't 100% BC and Xone isn't BC at all) why should anyone expect otherwise moving forward??? It sounds like people are going to invest a ton of money into this, and then 2 or so years after its successor is released, but out of luck and unable to play any if their old games.