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I am not paying 100 dollars more for something i do not want

Regardless of what it is. I can easily deal with the power difference, it does not bother me, but paying 100 smackaronies' for something i not only do not want, but actually despise with every bone in my body does not sit well with me. I do not think i am a unique snowflake in this situation, and imagine many people feel the same.

I feel the same for Wii U's Gamepad, i dont care how much you like to sit in your bed and play Super Mario Bros 1 for the 9428th time, just give me the console and a good gamepad, ditto for Xbox One.

 

[PJV3]

Should have spent the NFL money on Kinect software, people will buy something if it offers a worthwhile experience.

Now it's a dead weight, offer the option to buy an Xbox without, and try to come up with enough good software to entice people.

 

[JaggedSac]

If they remove the Kinect, they will then have to start pushing devs to create content for it since it will now be an accessory that they need to sell in order to recoup losses. Gotta do what ya gotta do though.

Should have spent the NFL money

Should have spent this on pretty much ANYTHING else. $500 million or so on a worthless damn deal. That was a LOT of games they could have funded.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

No the point I was making...

You think that Microsoft will keep on churning out core friendly titles once they start chasing those casual mass market dollars?

If the 360 is anything to go by there will be slim pickings for core gamers when this happens and more emphasis on family friendly shovelware.

It's bad news for core gamers if Microsoft are going to a more mass market friendly price point already, you'll be seeing fewer core gamer titles, not more.

So MS will target more casuals after dropping their casual pack-in? $500 is a better price for ensuring a "core" experience?

You know what, I can't. Bailing on this topic again. It's like Sony fans in 2007 arguing against a price drop, you can't argue with people this invested in a product war.

 

[Justice_dp]

Kill the one thing that is indeed added value and sell your console without any kind of advantage at the same price as your competition.

Losing the Kinect will kill the XBO. It would be just as crazy as a WiiU without the gamepad. It would make no sense or what so ever.

This is what losing the Kinect would mean:

1) Piss off the existing XBO user base as the paid more for a peripheral that is no more a core component of the hardware.
2) that they lose their one strength that can be used to show that they offer a different product than the competition.
3) that it brings them in a position, which enables Sony to run around circles around their pricing strategy for the whole generation at the added cost that they have no way to prove that they have a higher value than the sony.
4) Have a hardware that was built around a concept that was abandoned and thus leaves a seriously hampered console for a cycle of at least 3-4 years.
5) The people crying that Kinect is the reason they don't buy the XBO - is there reliable data that this would make a difference?

It's the same insane situation as the WiiU faces to be honest. The consoles were built around specific concepts and removing everything that is associated with those concepts will further ruin their position.

MS has to prove that Kinect is worth the money and console, not abandon it and prove Sony's "more power is everything we need!"-philosophy right.

 

[Iggins]

Joe Consumer doesn't really care about the difference at this point. If it's the same price, it's preference and what your friends have. The games look close enough for a mainstream buyer.

So how's that PS4 is outselling Xbone 2:1 if thats true? You're in denial, at this point everybody knows that PS4 is a superior console and thats enough to convince casuals.

 

[Discusguy]

that isn't actually true. if anything, it's the opposite. PSone beat out the N64, PS2 beat out the GC and xbox, the wii beat out the PS3 and 360.

price is the biggest factor, and when THAT is combined with a systems capabilities, then you see a landslide win. for me, much like the wii-u, MS is stuck trying to sell their system solely on their exclusives, because i see no reason anyone would buy the machine for it's multiplatform titles given they are consistently worse.

but you're right, they need to price accordingly. 399 with no kinect is all well and good, but it still sits next to a console that's the same price but more powerful. they need to undercut. no-one wants to pay the same/more for less.

Snes beat Genny
PS1 beat Saturn
PS2 beat Dreamcast
ps3 and 360 still selling a lot.
Wii U not selling great

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Kill the one thing that is indeed added value and sell your console without any kind of advantage at the same price as your competition.

Losing the Kinect will kill the XBO. It would be just as crazy as a WiiU without the gamepad. It would make no sense or what so ever.

This is what losing the Kinect would mean:

1) Piss off the existing XBO user base as the paid more for a peripheral that is no more a core component of the hardware.
2) that they lose their one strength that can be used to show that they offer a different product than the competition.
3) that it brings them in a position, which enables Sony to run around circles around their pricing strategy for the whole generation at the added cost that they have no way to prove that they have a higher value than the sony.
4) Have a hardware that was built around a concept that was abandoned and thus leaves a seriously hampered console for a cycle of at least 3-4 years.
5) The people crying that Kinect is the reason they don't buy the XBO - is there reliable data that this would make a difference?

It's the same insane situation as the WiiU faces to be honest. The consoles were built around specific concepts and removing everything that is associated with those concepts will further ruin their position.

MS has to prove that Kinect is worth the money and console, not abandon it and prove Sony's "more power is everything we need!"-philosophy right.

Agreed. I'm starting to question these rumors. It's like let's throw as much stuff out there until something sticks. So far (much like Nintendo is facing with the Wii U and also faced with the 3DS and its unique capabilities at the time) are trying to convince consumers why Kinect adds value. Which so far has been poorly marketed by Microsoft and not having much in the way of software has hurt it as well. Not to mention the limitations of the original Kinect that killed its chances with the hardcore gamer.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

So MS will target more casuals after dropping their casual pack-in? $500 is a better price for ensuring a "core" experience?

You know what, I can't. Bailing on this topic again. It's like Sony fans in 2007 arguing against a price drop, you can't argue with people this invested in a product war.

No casual consumer will be interested at $500, no matter what Microsoft pack in.

Mass market consumers tend to make decisions on price alone because they don't understand the finer details.

With a more mass market friendly price point, the software lineup will have to change to suit their mass market tastes with or without Kinetic.

With limited software development resources it stands to reason that some of these development resources will have to move onto more casual family orientated titles.

Microsoft pretty much bailed out on the core gamer during the 2nd half of the 360's life span with just the odd token Halo or Gears of War title to keep things ticking over. The pickings will be just as slim, if not more so for the Xbone which seems to be accelerating through the core gamer part even quicker than the 360 did.

It stands to reason that if core gamers aren't interested at the current price point, casual players who are less interested in the technical details will be an easier sell. This is because they don't care/know about resolutiongate, the bitter after taste of the 180 or anything else that turns off the early adopters that are choosing the PS4 over the Xbone.

 

[jedmaxwell]

To save some money on marketing, you can have this for free microsoft.

 

[mrback]

£250 to £280 with tittyfall & no kinect & I would pull the trigger. not interested in kinect one iota

 

[kyser73]

No casual consumer will be interested at $500, no matter what Microsoft pack in.

Mass market consumers tend to make decisions on price alone because they don't understand the finer details.

With a more mass market friendly price point, the software lineup will have to change to suit their mass market tastes with or without Kinetic.

With limited software development resources it stands to reason that some of these development resources will have to move onto more casual family orientated titles.

Microsoft pretty much bailed out on the core gamer during the 2nd half of the 360's life span with just the odd token Halo or Gears of War title to keep things ticking over. The pickings will be just as slim, if not more so for the Xbone which seems to be accelerating through the core gamer part even quicker than the 360 did.

It stands to reason that if core gamers aren't interested at the current price point, casual players who are less interested in the technical details will be an easier sell. This is because they don't care/know about resolutiongate, the bitter after taste of the 180 or anything else that turns off the early adopters that are choosing the PS4 over the Xbone.

Got any supporting evidence for these assertions? The second - that consumers don't do prior research on product specs, reviews and so on - is a pretty bold statement to make.

 

[ElDuderino]

I bite when its $199. Needs better first party titles.

 

[TheExecutive]

Kinect was the only thing that made it different from the PS4.

Well the only thing that could possibly be considered a benefit that is...

 

[Rogue_element]

I am not paying 100 dollars more for something i do not want

Regardless of what it is. I can easily deal with the power difference, it does not bother me, but paying 100 smackaronies' for something i not only do not want, but actually despise with every bone in my body does not sit well with me. I do not think i am a unique snowflake in this situation, and imagine many people feel the same.
.

this

 

[TheExecutive]

No casual consumer will be interested at $500, no matter what Microsoft pack in.

Mass market consumers tend to make decisions on price alone because they don't understand the finer details.

With a more mass market friendly price point, the software lineup will have to change to suit their mass market tastes with or without Kinetic.

With limited software development resources it stands to reason that some of these development resources will have to move onto more casual family orientated titles.

Microsoft pretty much bailed out on the core gamer during the 2nd half of the 360's life span with just the odd token Halo or Gears of War title to keep things ticking over. The pickings will be just as slim, if not more so for the Xbone which seems to be accelerating through the core gamer part even quicker than the 360 did.

It stands to reason that if core gamers aren't interested at the current price point, casual players who are less interested in the technical details will be an easier sell. This is because they don't care/know about resolutiongate, the bitter after taste of the 180 or anything else that turns off the early adopters that are choosing the PS4 over the Xbone.

The casual market is never an easier sell but more a phenomenon. The Xbox brand went sideways when Mattrick took over. I have been saying this for years but Mattrick was just as poisonous to the brand as Kutaragi was to the PS brand but the PS brand has always had the full backing of Sony. Xbox brand not so much.

 

[cripterion]

I'm not down with a Kinectless version too. I bought this on the promise that we would get cool games that make use of the tech down the line and they would already kill it in it's first year? That would suck, especially after all the talk they did about it being part of the system.

The console hasn't even been out for 6 months and people here are already calling it a failure (well actually a some people were even calling it a failure before it was out but that's not the point), I know they don't have unlimited ressources but give it some time.
I think they need to lower the price though, of the console, no doubt, but also of the games. Xbox One and PS4 are just too expensive for the value they provide imo.

 

[Anion]

Watch the free game be Kinect Sports Rivals with the Kinectless Version

I'm curious to see where the Xbox one goes from here.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Got any supporting evidence for these assertions? The second - that consumers don't do prior research on product specs, reviews and so on - is a pretty bold statement to make.

Evidence?

Go into any retail store and you'll see it happening all day every day for a wide ranges of products and services.

Reviews and research only matter to consumers that are enthusiasts. Mass market consumers don't even know where to look for those reviews or research material.

If two products both say they will do "X" and if one is more expensive than the other, the vast majority of consumers will always go for the cheaper option.

 

[Nicktals]

Either get rid of the kinect with a price drop, or, what it always comes down to, give us games.

Part of me wonders if MS has painted themselves into a corner with Kinect. The device seems really impressive, but is it possible that MS has held off on pushing or implementing certain capabilities, due to fear of backlash?

Think of it this way, could they have heard from focus testing that people are actually really weirded out by their heart rate being monitored by the camera, or the camera basically being able to do an accurate full body scan?

Because either the Kinect doesn't have that much to offer, or MS doesn't know how to implement it at all, or they simply choose not to. But based on the ads I've seen, other than voice recognition, the Kinect gets very very little play.

If you're not going to create compelling software for the device, then drop it.

 

[Village]

Also WELP, now if microsoft could show me some games i really want ( HALO ) i might buy it ( i probably going to buy it for halo if its good because i like halo )

 

[RE_Player]

I'm not down with a Kinectless version too. I bought this on the promise that we would get cool games that make use of the tech down the line and they would already kill it in it's first year?

It was obvious Microsoft is getting out of the business of pure camera games. You'll get some here and there. like Kinect Sports, but it's main use will be the microphone, broadcasting and console navigation.

 

[Justice_dp]

I am not paying 100 dollars more for something i do not want

Regardless of what it is. I can easily deal with the power difference, it does not bother me, but paying 100 smackaronies' for something i not only do not want, but actually despise with every bone in my body does not sit well with me. I do not think i am a unique snowflake in this situation, and imagine many people feel the same.

I feel the same for Wii U's Gamepad, i dont care how much you like to sit in your bed and play Super Mario Bros 1 for the 9428th time, just give me the console and a good gamepad, ditto for Xbox One.

So why would you want to buy in inferior product? (and the WiiU and XBO are inferior to the PS4 if you remore their prime advantages)

The exclusive titles? The coment you made on SMB does not make it seem like you are too fond of Nintendo.

Consoles thrive if they are not carbon copies of each other with different power levels.

 

[knitoe]

The casual market is never an easier sell but more a phenomenon. The Xbox brand went sideways when Mattrick took over. I have been saying this for years but Mattrick was just as poisonous to the brand as Kutaragi was to the PS brand but the PS brand has always had the full backing of Sony. Xbox brand not so much.

In this day and age, especially with instant social media, people need to realize brand loyalty means nothing these days. Buyers will readily move from one brand to the next and back. If the product is better than the competitors, people will be informed. Thus, given similar experiences, it's simple to see how a more powerful plus cheaper console would out sale a more weaker and more expansive one.

 

[kyser73]

Evidence?

Go into any retail store and you'll see it happening all day every day for a wide ranges of products and services.

Reviews and research only matter to consumers that are enthusiasts. Mass market consumers don't even know where to look for those reviews or research material.

If two products both say they will do "X" and if one is more expensive than the other, the vast majority of consumers will always go for the cheaper option.

So that's a no then, coupled with another evidence-free assertion about consumer behaviour.

 

[JP]

Not really sure an xbox 1 without Kinect and $100 discount will achieve anything.

For there to be any value in this for Microsoft they need to be selling the machine cheaper than the PS4. When you compare the fact of how many third part games have been announced for Xbox 1 and PS4 even at the same price there's still no reason for people to buy the Xbox 1 over the PS4.

Particularly when the PS4 versions are the superior console versions of those particular games.

Microsoft just can't compete with Sony or Nintendo when it comes to game development so apart from what looks like what is going to be an absolutely tiny minority of exclusive games there just doesn't seem to be any reason for people to choose the Xbox 1 over the PS4.

If an Xbox 1 price drop is announced I wouldn't be that surprised to see Sony do what they seem to have done all along so far this generation and announce a price drop the week before them so that the PS4 would still the cheaper and preferable console to own.

It would make any Microsoft announcement look as ridiculous as they all have so far this generation.

 

[cripterion]

It was obvious Microsoft is getting out of the business of pure camera games. You'll get some here and there. like Kinect Sports, but it's main use will be the microphone, broadcasting and console navigation.

Isn't D4 supposed to be Kinect only?

And there's tons of games they could do for kids with Kinect. As an adult, I'm not into the whole flail your arms around thing but kids find it fun and are surely less picky than us when it comes to having fun with the Kinect.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Removing the only truly unique thing out of the box? Curious to see if it pans out.
Would be real heartwarming to see them admit that they were completely and utterly wrong about people's receptiveness for the ever-clunky Kinect sensor though.

Lots of R&D dollars down the drain.
But as gamers we can only hope this actually happens.

 

[Nicktals]

Also, can someone refresh my memory...What was the NFL deal? What does it offer to owners of the console?

 

[foxbeldin]

Also, can someone refresh my memory...What was the NFL deal? What does it offer to owners of the console?

I think it's an integration with an app that gives you stats or something like that.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

So that's a no then, coupled with another evidence-free assertion about consumer behaviour.

Want someone to spoon feed you knowledge?

Can't be bothered to use Google yourself?

Try Googling for "consumer behaviour theory" as a starting point.

If you've even the tiniest bit of retail experience or have done any sales optimisation work this wouldn't even be up for discussion.

 

[Dunkers92]

I'm not down with a Kinectless version too. I bought this on the promise that we would get cool games that make use of the tech down the line and they would already kill it in it's first year? That would suck, especially after all the talk they did about it being part of the system.

What made you think there would be cool games for the Kinect?

From the start Microsoft have been showing Kinect as nothing much more than gesture controls and voice controls for the OS, with a couple of token games, Kinect Sports and Just Dance. I don't think they ever said they would be making many games for it down the line.

That's why it's always been a head scratcher for me. Yes, the kinect does differentiate from the competition, but in business, even if you have that differentiator, it needs to show sufficient value and worth to the consumer for it to be a success. This is even more important when your product is more expensive than the competition.

And like I said, from the start, all Microsoft have shown this new and improved Kinect doing is voice commands and face recognition and the like. Ryse used to be a Kinect only game. I think them moving away from that says all we need to know on Microsofts confidence in a AAA being made specifically for Kinect

 

[open_mouth_]

Feb -> $499 w/ free game
March -> $499 w/ free game (Titanfall releases)
April -> $479 "unofficial" price drop with free game
June/E3 -> New $399 SKU w/out Kinect, $499 SKU w/ Kinect and bigger Drive
July -> Kinect Sold Separately @ $99
Holiday -> $399 SKU w/out Kinect plus 1 or 2 free games bundle

So a good time to buy IMO would be during the holidays, as always.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I think it has to price match PS4 with Kinect or undercut PS4 without it. Personally I think getting rid of the only unique selling point is a bad idea. Price is the main issue.

Still, we are only three months into the gen and anything can happen.

 

[zhao3gold]

How about put a Apple logo on the carton? It may help...

Seriously, Xbox One needs to be 349USD/349Euro to compete with PS4. But this brings more loss to Microsoft and for sure, the investors will be pissed.

 

[rvy]

I doubt they're gonna ditch the spyware infiltrator. It's the only thing they got going, otherwise it's just an underpowered and overpriced console.

 

[foxbeldin]

Feb -> $499 w/ free game
March -> $499 w/ free game (Titanfall releases)
April -> $479 "unofficial" price drop with free game
June/E3 -> New $399 SKU w/out Kinect, $499 SKU w/ Kinect and bigger Drive
July -> Kinect Sold Separately @ $99
Holiday -> $399 SKU w/out Kinect plus 1 or 2 free games bundle

So a good time to buy IMO would be during the holidays, as always.

I think it's realistic, except the separate kinect would be at least 130 to make it look like the kinect sku is worth buying.

 

[open_mouth_]

I think it's realistic, except the separate kinect would be at least 130 to make it look like the kinect sku is worth buying.

yeah plus the $499 sku would have a bigger hard drive by that point IMO

 

[EL CUCO]

This is inevitable. Unless MS pulls out some miracle numbers in the next few months, this is happpening.

MS has shown they're not afraid to knee jerk.

 

[open_mouth_]

Microsoft deserve every bit of this. They basically pulled a PS3 launch with all their arrogance and BS.

 

[geordiemp]

Want someone to spoon feed you knowledge?

Can't be bothered to use Google yourself?

Try Googling for "consumer behaviour theory" as a starting point.

If you've even the tiniest bit of retail experience or have done any sales optimisation work this wouldn't even be up for discussion.

I disagree with you - my 10 year old son and school friends all play 360 and move to Ps4 as its a beast and One is weak - they don't know why, its just accepted.

You may laugh, but word of mouth that a console is better, stronger or faster can carry allot of weight.

Yes, casuals may not read face offs and threads about this game has 4 x MSAA, but the word of mouth damage has already been done.

The console that is cheaper and plays the multiplayer games the best often succeeds, whereas other consoles have to get lots of good exclusives just to keep up.

 

[cripterion]

What made you think there would be cool games for the Kinect?

From the start Microsoft have been showing Kinect as nothing much more than gesture controls and voice controls for the OS, with a couple of token games, Kinect Sports and Just Dance. I don't think they ever said they would be making many games for it down the line.

That's why it's always been a head scratcher for me. Yes, the kinect does differentiate from the competition, but in business, even if you have that differentiator, it needs to show sufficient value and worth to the consumer for it to be a success. This is even more important when your product is more expensive than the competition.

And like I said, from the start, all Microsoft have shown this new and improved Kinect doing is voice commands and face recognition and the like. Ryse used to be a Kinect only game. I think them moving away from that says all we need to know on Microsofts confidence in a AAA being made specifically for Kinect

Well the fact that they've made a point that they wanted to have it included in all their consoles from the get go and them confirming that it was associated with the console so that devs knew it was there for all Xbox One owners, unlike the previous generation.

I don't need triple A games too. They could make games like Asura's Wrath or Binary Domain with Kinect in mind.

 

[Jamie OD]

Also, can someone refresh my memory...What was the NFL deal? What does it offer to owners of the console?

NFL app that kept you up to date on everything including NFL.com fantasy football. Also probably a ton of advertising crossover between the two.

 

[silver.tongue]

I wonder if Sony would react. If MS cuts to $399, and Sony goes to $350, they'll be back to square one.

I think MS has room for a price drop.
I don't think Sony can or need to drop their price.

With both at $399, PS4 still outsells Xbone WW and might lose just US.

 

[sinnergy]

Microsoft deserve every bit of this. They basically pulled a PS3 launch with all their arrogance and BS.

Yup. But not all was bad, I would have like to see the 24 online on Xbox. look at all the World of Warcraft players, they all need to be online otherwise you can't play.

Blizzard even has a day that servers are out all day for updates..

it's a state of mind.

 

[monome]

only thing I want is a disc-less unit.

A regular yet kinect-less version would be lame at this point.

kinect-less and disc-less version to adress hardcore players and fight off Steam machines would be nice too.

 

[quetz67]

The day I will die laughing is when Microsoft announces a Kinect-less Xbone for $399 and Sony drops the $299 bomb the same day.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I don't believe they'll give up Kinect. I think they're just going to suck up losing 100 bucks. It's MS. They have the money. They should of done that from the get go.



Not even close to the same. I'm not coming in the house and then grabbing a head set to make commands to turn on my everything. I walk in the room home from work and say Xbox On... EVERYTHING turns on. My TV, receiver and Direct TV all turn on. Having to put a head set on imo is not the same as just walking into a room and just start saying commands. It's an awesome feature if you have your whole home entertainment system hooked up to it.

Lol @ "It's MS, they have the money".

Amseemingly highly inefficient and unprofitable subdivision of microsoft that currently has all the investor's eyes fixed on it, deciding it's future.
Now the newest console is looking to get dominated in their one previously strongest market and you expect them to take a complete bath on every unit sold just because they can? I'd like to see the pitch meeting for that one.

"Fuck it, let's flush away millions and millions of dollars to potentially increase marketshare. We're Microsoft!"

 

[kyser73]

Want someone to spoon feed you knowledge?

Can't be bothered to use Google yourself?

Try Googling for "consumer behaviour theory" as a starting point.

If you've even the tiniest bit of retail experience or have done any sales optimisation work this wouldn't even be up for discussion.

You do know how debate works, right? You make a claim, provide some evidence to support it.

I spent 10 years working in advertising across FMCG and electronics and all the evidence I was ever confronted with - academic and business - was that pre-purchase research was dependent on a huge variety of other factors, ranging from class background to the immediate circumstances of the purchase (e.g. did the consumer like the sales person), so don't be getting on your high horse about being asked to evidence a hugely sweeping generalisation (and one I might add that wasn't required to make your point about the direction of software development one that I completely agree with, along with all your other points).

 

[mrback]

Really should have gone for a consumer choice route from the start. full dancing kinect sku & entry level kinect less sku. you have to give consumers a choice or make the kinect a must have piece of kit which it just isnt, dont get me wrong the tech of the device is impressive but I'm just not interested in it so there must be plenty of people like myself who think the same thing.