Xbox One new marketing, a Kinectless version and a game for 400? CBOAT: Maybe

Summer seems too soon. I'd say fall-Christimas time if numbers continue like this. I mean it isn't a total sales failure really unless you are comparing numbers to PS4. I think $450 is more likely. $100 cut 6 months after launch? When have we ever seen that?

Also this is a total admission of failure for everything they said kinect is if they do this.
 
I usually don't comment on these sort of things, but it is my personal opinion that removing the Kinect in order to achieve price point parity with Sony is a horrible idea. Perhaps almost as bad as the rumored disc-less based option.

Microsoft has been parading the unique features of the Xbox One since last year, while simultaneously bragging about how advanced the Kinect 2.0 is and how the entire OS was built around it. As a Day One adopter of the PS4 and the Xbone, removing the Kinect would be a slap in the face of people like me who shelled out $500 for the system due to the "mandatory" Kinect that we were told games would soon take advantage of. It would fragment the market, and people soon realize that even with price parity, the PS4 is a more powerful system. In other words, doing such a thing would remove the only thing that makes the Xbone unique.

I totally understand that many people hate and don't want the Kinect, which is why I thought removing the mandate that stated it had to be always on, always listening, and always connected was a good idea. I think Microsoft should just figure out other ways to make the system more enticing to prospective buyers, even if it means taking a loss. A digital pack -in ala Wii U would be a good start. Maybe offer the same Xbone at $400 with a DD of Forza 5 or Dead Rising 3. Or maybe one with Titanfall for $450 during the summer.
 
You may laugh, but word of mouth that a console is better, stronger or faster can carry allot of weight.

Yes, casuals may not read face offs and threads about this game has 4 x MSAA, but the word of mouth damage has already been done.

This. So many casual gamers and non-gamers alike that i know express the same, "I hear the PS4 is way more powerful than the XBO" sentiment.
 
I think MS has room for a price drop.
I don't think Sony can or need to drop their price.

With both at $399, PS4 still outsells Xbone WW and might lose just US.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/11/26/teardown-suggests-xbox-one-manufacturing-cost-of-471/

Given the market conditions, new CEO, board etc. I dont think they will be willing to write off a billion dollar this year. At 10-12M consoles/yr.. absorbing $100 will not be easy for any one now.

They will be looking at some goofy stuff like disc less xbox one, where they can get a $30 cut on every game sold.
 
Also people tend to forget the Xbox One already had a free game included at launch : Fifa 14.

They would have to do more than a free game included with the console to make it more enticing imo.
 
Also people tend to forget the Xbox One already had a free game included at launch : Fifa 14.

They would have to do more than a free game included with the console to make it more enticing imo.

They did, but not in the US. We didn't get any pack-in. FIFA wouldn't work here anyway, since most of us Americans don't care for soccer. Madden might work a little better, but I do agree that they'd need to sweeten the pot a bit more.
 
They did, but not in the US. We didn't get any pack-in. FIFA wouldn't work here anyway, since most of us Americans don't care for soccer. Madden might work a little better, but I do agree that they'd need to sweeten the pot a bit more.

That's true, it's weird the US didn't get a free game with the console at launch considering it's their main market. Another stupid decision from the higher ups.

That was only in Europe though, wasn't it?

Yeah my bad, I forgot about it. At least you didn't/don't have the eye gouging price of the games to pay in Euros :p
 
That's true, it's weird the US didn't get a free game with the console at launch considering it's their main market. Another stupid decision from the higher ups.

they thought it didn't need one, most consoles don't launch with a game. It says more about their desperation in europe that they had to include FIFA.
 
It gives you access to your fantasy football scores on NFL.com, if you use that garbage website to play fantasy. Not sure about what else.

Wow...Seems like not much of return on that investment...I remember them announcing it, but have heard NOTHING of it since...

Think of the games that money could've funded...500 games with a million dollar budget...lol in my dreams.
 
Makes sense to ditch kinnect when the tv features don't even work in most countries. Why make us pay for a service that doesn't work? Or has that changed, finally?
 
Makes sense to ditch kinnect when the tv features don't even work in most countries. Why make us pay for a service that doesn't work? Or has that changed, finally?

How does Kinect have anything to do with the TV features? Removing Kinect won't solve that - you'd need to remove the HDMI-In/passthrough stuff, which would impact on the screen-sharing functionality (another USP) and negate the usefulness of Snap.
 
What Sony did, that 1 upped MS and gave you some of the same in game experiences. Sony made voice commands a function of the Mic, which comes with every PS4. This took away from Kinect something very vital to Kinect and made it look small in comparison. They trumpeted Kinect voice commands as this great added value, something you couldn't do anywhere else.
 
If they remove the Kinect, they will then have to start pushing devs to create content for it since it will now be an accessory that they need to sell in order to recoup losses. Gotta do what ya gotta do though.

Should have spent this on pretty much ANYTHING else. $500 million or so on a worthless damn deal. That was a LOT of games they could have funded.

This is why I think it's a disaster to remove kinect. Giving unique experiences makes a console stand out. If they can't win with the best looking or performing content, it has to be unique, and kinect allows that. This will mean that dropping kinect in a sku must follow massive investment in exclusive content. Something MS has not been a huge producer of.
 
If MS goes through with this I would be willing to see it as a console I could buy now because they lost a lot of trust with their stated intentions for DRM and Kinect advertising.

By taking out Kinect there isn't a reason anymore to hate on them.

This is unlike the Wii U pad which I think would be an error in judgement to remove completely unless it had an additional $100 price drop.
 
180 to rule them all.

I wonder though, the console is set to launch in a whole bunch of countries this year. IF they introduce this new trimmed SKU, won't this be at launch in said countries ? I can't imagine MS to launch the full SKU AND the trimmed SKU in the same year, right ?
 
How does Kinect have anything to do with the TV features? Removing Kinect won't solve that - you'd need to remove the HDMI-In/passthrough stuff, which would impact on the screen-sharing functionality (another USP) and negate the usefulness of Snap.

I guess that is the feature I'm talking about. It's not even supported (the tv portion anyway) in most countries. Remove it and kinnect and the console gets even cheaper.

I'm guessing if you removed kinnect, snap becomes less useful anyway. Then you are back to using the controller for those features. Is snap entirely dependent on the hdmi pass through? I didn't think so. Keep that feature for folks that want to snap in netflix or something.
 
What Sony did, that 1 upped MS and gave you some of the same in game experiences. Sony made voice commands a function of the Mic, which comes with every PS4. This took away from Kinect something very vital to Kinect and made it look small in comparison. They trumpeted Kinect voice commands as this great added value, something you couldn't do anywhere else.

What they also did, by not making VC front and centre as a feature (and thus inviting unflattering comparisons with Kinect, which is built around it) is make it something that can be worked on as time goes on via FW updates and so on, giving themselves time to make it really great, or to simply let it die, based on usage stats and so on.

oneils said:
I guess that is the feature I'm talking about. It's not even supported in most countries. Remove it and kinnect and the console gets even cheaper.

Much like the OG PS3 when they removed BC and 4 of the 6 USB ports it launched with!
 
Much like the OG PS3 when they removed BC and 4 of the 6 USB ports it launched with!

Yeah, it gets the price down, at least. I'm betting a very small portion of people used those features. Don't want to start another debate, but I have an og ps3 and have used the BC only twice.
 
I love the system with Kinect I would choose to have the Kinect. Its just so damn useful and if the Kinect sports preseason is anything to go by it is very good for party games and maybe even adding function to hardcore games in the future. It isn't the fact that Kinect is a failure that might lead them to leave it out of the bundle, its just the price. And the great lineup for the X1 isn't enough for people to choose the X1 over the PS4. Its that simple.
 
Yes, but what's the point of a kinected Xbone? That's the interesting question that Microsoft can't answer.
Its awesome for voice and great for KSR so all they need are games. Its a great addition to the console and one of the reasons my PS4 gets little use until infamous. The internet sentiment that Kinect doesn't work is mostly a lie. Its a great device. I think MS would be wise to keep it in the box and take a loss instead. Kinect will be a big thing once the price of these machines gets into casual territory.
 
If MS want to make huge splash,offer 2 SKU, 399 with Kinect, 299 without Kinect.
299 is the price to open the casual market floodgate, make Kinect sport f2p, sell Kinect at 149 standalone. Make up the losses from K2 sales.
Definitely turn the tide, maybe win the war.
 
Wow...Seems like not much of return on that investment...I remember them announcing it, but have heard NOTHING of it since...

Think of the games that money could've funded...500 games with a million dollar budget...lol in my dreams.

At this point it seems like a massive waste of money. They might as welled burned 400 million dollars in a fire. Unless they are going to offer game streaming like NFL Sunday Ticket I don't see what benefit this could ever provide to the Xbox One.

I mean did MS really think anyone would care one bit about checking their fantasy scores while they play Halo? I mean for fucks sake I have my phone and iPad at all times to check that shit.
 
Microsoft has been parading the unique features of the Xbox One since last year, while simultaneously bragging about how advanced the Kinect 2.0 is and how the entire OS was built around it. As a Day One adopter of the PS4 and the Xbone, removing the Kinect would be a slap in the face of people like me who shelled out $500 for the system due to the "mandatory" Kinect that we were told games would soon take advantage of. It would fragment the market, and people soon realize that even with price parity, the PS4 is a more powerful system. In other words, doing such a thing would remove the only thing that makes the Xbone unique.

Early buyers are those who are burned if a product doesn't live up to the standards it sets for itself. This is a risk we've always taken. Drastic measure sometimes have to be taken to save a product or company. MS isn't yet at that point, but if it comes to it, the Kinect is gone, "slap in the face" or not.

If the Kinect isn't driving people to the console, I don't see how leaving it in there is going to drive people to it. Unless the answer is price parity to PS4 and still including Kinect - which isn't happening because...

I think Microsoft should just figure out other ways to make the system more enticing to prospective buyers, even if it means taking a loss.

MS took 5 some years of a loss with the promise to the investors that it would pay off significantly later. We're at "later" and the video game margins for them are middling. Investors aren't happy and are already calling for the games/entertainment division to be divested. "Please understand" isn't an answer when there's been a clear shift in the dedicated game console arena that makes the rewards MS promised back in late 90s/early 2000s impossible to meet.

A digital pack -in ala Wii U would be a good start.

That worked well for Wii-U.
 
At this point it seems like a massive waste of money. They might as welled burned 400 million dollars in a fire. Unless they are going to offer game streaming like NFL Sunday Ticket I don't see what benefit this could ever provide to the Xbox One.

I mean did MS really think anyone would care one bit about checking their fantasy scores while they play Halo? I mean for fucks sake I have my phone and iPad at all times to check that shit.

Really. It's not like there isn't potential...If it came with redzone streaming or something, you could set an alert for certain teams so that it would pause your game and flip to the game, or something like that...but just for fantasy support seems...basically worthless.

I think both MS and Nintendo overestimated demand for integration with TV. I've been hearing about companion smart phone apps for quite a while, and never once have used one...Not sure why they thought they would be different.
 
If these rumors gain traction, sales are going to fall off a cliff until/unless they actually come to pass.
 
Kinect was the only thing that made it different from the PS4.

Exclusives?. Seriously kinect is the easiest thing to remove to bring the price down.
Kinect isn't as important to Microsofts plans now anyway since they went back on their orig plans (always online etc).
 
Wow...Seems like not much of return on that investment...I remember them announcing it, but have heard NOTHING of it since...

Think of the games that money could've funded...500 games with a million dollar budget...lol in my dreams.

well the nfl stuff will probably be built on. The console launched in november when the nfl season is mostly over. If it's still just nfl.com fantasy stuff next year, then it's a waste. Would be nice if that much money at least got them some streaming games.
 
Having brought & sold my XBone the only way MS would see me back as a customer would be:

Release decent software that utilises kinect.

Make kinect TV compatible with Euro/UK market.

Be competitive with PS4's price point.

Offer the £99/$99 whatever trade in offer the had recently for PS3 but for 360.

I don't feel at this time a Kinectless SKU would solve the problem! With the hardware differences it's what makes the XBone standout if there were decent software to bloody use the thing. I just don't understand the decision to make it the heart of the system but not utilise it from the get go?

I brought mine, played it for a week then got PS4, once that happened I stopped playing XBone as the games I'm into all ran & looked better so the XBone became a £600 brick after I moved it into the lounge. MS wanted to "Dominiate the living room" but in mine all it did was gather dust! There needs to be a reason to want/use the thing & at this point after seeing Titanfall(pun intended) I don't feel that's enough of a draw MS banked on.

Gimme me a reason to love your system MS.
 
I brought mine, played it for a week then got PS4, once that happened I stopped playing XBone as the games I'm into all ran & looked better so the XBone became a £600 brick after I moved it into the lounge. MS wanted to "Dominiate the living room" but in mine all it did was gather dust! There needs to be a reason to want/use the thing & at this point after seeing Titanfall(pun intended) I don't feel that's enough of a draw MS banked on.

Gimme me a reason to love your system MS.

Were you looking at Titanfall with your eyes...or with your heart? If you look with your feeble eyes you'll see the 792p...if you look with your heart, you'll see the love.
 
$400 is still too much for a XB1 - even without a Kinect. They need to hit that $300 price range as fast as possible.

I need a Destiny console on September 9th. Microsoft will have to put up more of a fight if they want me to pick an XB1 over a PS4 that day.
 
Yup, if they sell it without its just going to be a weaker Halo machine. I can't see them doing this.

There is always going to be one of the consoles that weaker than the other, thats the way its always been. Why would it suddenly be a problem now?, especially when the most powerful console hardly ever sells the most in the first place.
 
$350
it'll never happen
(No Kinect) or bust at my house.

And even then, its pending on more future Gears details. Titanfall would be more of a supplemental game than a system seller for me.

I can see Halo moving some units.

The home of the multiplats is on PS4 this gen for sure though.
 
I usually don't comment on these sort of things, but it is my personal opinion that removing the Kinect in order to achieve price point parity with Sony is a horrible idea. Perhaps almost as bad as the rumored disc-less based option.

Microsoft has been parading the unique features of the Xbox One since last year, while simultaneously bragging about how advanced the Kinect 2.0 is and how the entire OS was built around it. As a Day One adopter of the PS4 and the Xbone, removing the Kinect would be a slap in the face of people like me who shelled out $500 for the system due to the "mandatory" Kinect that we were told games would soon take advantage of. It would fragment the market, and people soon realize that even with price parity, the PS4 is a more powerful system. In other words, doing such a thing would remove the only thing that makes the Xbone unique.

I totally understand that many people hate and don't want the Kinect, which is why I thought removing the mandate that stated it had to be always on, always listening, and always connected was a good idea. I think Microsoft should just figure out other ways to make the system more enticing to prospective buyers, even if it means taking a loss. A digital pack -in ala Wii U would be a good start. Maybe offer the same Xbone at $400 with a DD of Forza 5 or Dead Rising 3. Or maybe one with Titanfall for $450 during the summer.

Releasing a gimped version of your console for cheaper worked well for the 360, so I don't see how it wouldn't be beneficial for the Xbone. It wouldn't really fragment the market because people wouldn't be missing much by losing the Kinect.

Also, as shown in the past, the most powerful console doesn't always come out on top.
 
I think they will experiment with 55 or even 50 dollar digital triple A games as being standard price in a move to attract more people to the platform and to push digital. It would justify the bigger hard drives in newer Xbox One's coming out as well.
 
I can imagine them looking into it, but I don't think it will actually happen. They're even more f-ed than Nintendo in this regard. The Kinect 2 will not cost a 100 dollar to produce, but if they drop 100 dollars they're still at price parity with the PS, so they need to at least add a game to become interesting.

What this means is that MS will again start losing money on their Xbone. With the 360 games licenses and XBL gold profits that are currently keeping the Xbox division afloat likely dropping off a cliff soon, an Xbone being sold at a loss would mean a third extensive period of being in the red for the division. I simply can't see MS going oh allright it's necessary so we'll dominate the fourth generation then, just wait and see.

No just like Nintendo they simply have to make the Kinect work. Or they'll try to keep the minimal margins and drop out with their heads raised next gen (maybe introduce a streaming box at best).
 
I usually don't comment on these sort of things, but it is my personal opinion that removing the Kinect in order to achieve price point parity with Sony is a horrible idea. Perhaps almost as bad as the rumored disc-less based option.

Microsoft has been parading the unique features of the Xbox One since last year, while simultaneously bragging about how advanced the Kinect 2.0 is and how the entire OS was built around it. As a Day One adopter of the PS4 and the Xbone, removing the Kinect would be a slap in the face of people like me who shelled out $500 for the system due to the "mandatory" Kinect that we were told games would soon take advantage of. It would fragment the market, and people soon realize that even with price parity, the PS4 is a more powerful system. In other words, doing such a thing would remove the only thing that makes the Xbone unique.

I totally understand that many people hate and don't want the Kinect, which is why I thought removing the mandate that stated it had to be always on, always listening, and always connected was a good idea. I think Microsoft should just figure out other ways to make the system more enticing to prospective buyers, even if it means taking a loss. A digital pack -in ala Wii U would be a good start. Maybe offer the same Xbone at $400 with a DD of Forza 5 or Dead Rising 3. Or maybe one with Titanfall for $450 during the summer.

Great post

The worry now, to my mind, is that Microsoft will panic to the extent that they will cut off their nose to spite their face.
 
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