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[SHADES]

Were you looking at Titanfall with your eyes...or with your heart? If you look with your feeble eyes you'll see the 792p...if you look with your heart, you'll see the love.

I wanted to love it but from what I've seen it's wearing thin on me. A friend uploaded some beta footage this morning & it just looks like CoD with mechs & after Ghosts I've seen enough CoD references for a life time. It really just reminds me of CoD with a couple of gimmicks chucked in on top for good measure.

 

[Rex_Harrison]

XBones biggest problem is that it costs $100 more than the PS4. It's not the Kinect.

Where MS really fucked up is deciding to make an all in "One" entertainment box instead of making a console on par or surpassing the PS4 in terms of raw performance. They need the Kinect because without it, it's just a console, and that's not its strong suit. The fact that it costs $100 more than the PS4 is a bit confusing to a lot of people and I think that is what is hurting sales a bit right now.

Because Xbone is obviously the weaker console, I think the Kinect should be thrown in to sweeten the deal, not raise the cost by $100. People feel like the Kinect is being jammed down their throats because of the extra $100, but if the Xbone cost $400 and you got a Kinect, I think a lot more people would be interested in that, not necessarily Gaffers, but I think casuals would eat that shit up.

The general public doesn't know which console is better for multiplats or which console can natively run1080p @60fps more times than not, all they see is XBone costs $100 more than PS4.

 

[Klocker]

sounds like wishful thinking on some peoples' parts and an overreaction.

not saying the shouldn't do something, hell even OG xbox dropped price three months after launch.

taking full price on the first 5 million is smart and a price drop or bundling is smart but removing Kinect?

nah

 

[w00zey]

The general public doesn't know which console is better for multiplats or which console can natively run1080p @60fps more times than not, all they see is XBone costs $100 more than PS4.

I don't think the general public cares if it is native 1080p or not they care about games and cost. At least going off of talking to my friends that game but aren't scouring message boards and watching videos. Which I presume is the majority.

 

[RetroStu]

I don't think the general public cares if it is native 1080p or not they care about games and cost. At least going off of talking to my friends that game but aren't scouring message boards and watching videos. Which I presume is the majority.

Thats because its true. Price is the most important thing for the vast majority of people and if Microsoft drop the price to PS4 level, watch the sales jump up considerably.
Price has always been the main deciding factor with the masses.

 

[EL CUCO]

sounds like wishful thinking on some peoples' parts and an overreaction.

not saying the shouldn't do something, hell even OG xbox dropped price three months after launch.

taking full price on the first 5 million is smart and a price drop or bundling is smart but removing Kinect?

nah

At the end of the day, MS has to analyze what the consumers want. They tried it their way, while its not a complete fail you have to wonder what the longterm effects will be.

If they removed Kinect and implemented a price cut, are the current XB1 owners going to run to the stores and trade them in? Nope...

On the contrary, if they announced what Cboat dropped for us, people that haven't bought one would be way more inclined to purchase one. Yes, MS is in a tough spot but I honestly dont see any other option if they want to stay in this race. Break a few early adopters hearts to gain some more seems like a move they are going to need to make.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I usually don't comment on these sort of things, but it is my personal opinion that removing the Kinect in order to achieve price point parity with Sony is a horrible idea. Perhaps almost as bad as the rumored disc-less based option.

Microsoft has been parading the unique features of the Xbox One since last year, while simultaneously bragging about how advanced the Kinect 2.0 is and how the entire OS was built around it. As a Day One adopter of the PS4 and the Xbone, removing the Kinect would be a slap in the face of people like me who shelled out $500 for the system due to the "mandatory" Kinect that we were told games would soon take advantage of. It would fragment the market, and people soon realize that even with price parity, the PS4 is a more powerful system. In other words, doing such a thing would remove the only thing that makes the Xbone unique.

I totally understand that many people hate and don't want the Kinect, which is why I thought removing the mandate that stated it had to be always on, always listening, and always connected was a good idea. I think Microsoft should just figure out other ways to make the system more enticing to prospective buyers, even if it means taking a loss. A digital pack -in ala Wii U would be a good start. Maybe offer the same Xbone at $400 with a DD of Forza 5 or Dead Rising 3. Or maybe one with Titanfall for $450 during the summer.

I honestly think they'd go disc-less before they drop Kinect. Digital downloads are gaining ground, and they'd be selling the disc-less version to more casual consumers who tend to play smaller sized games anyway. And tbh, disc-less with Kinect would be the smarter of the two options.

 

[.la1n]

I think it would be a smart move on Microsoft's part. They wanted the Kinect to be a bigger selling point than it ended up being. Admit the mistake now and remedy it. I still do not understand why they never opted to have two SKUs at launch in the first place.

 

[Final Boss]

Do people really buy the Xbox One for the Kinect, though?

No, but what other way is it to justify buying a weaker console with inferior multi-play games?

 

[justsomeguy]

Price cut to get parity with the ps4, then let people decide between Kinect/tv features, or more pixels

 

[CharminUltra]

Awesome if true, glad I waited.

Also, fuck Kinect

 

[BFIB]

$399 seems to be the sweet spot. My guess is MS will announce the price drop at E3, but I don't see Kinect not being included.

 

[The Real Napsta]

$400 price tag + Halo 2 Anniversary = sold

This ^

I'll buy one the second they are available for that price.

 

[Massa]

No, but what other way is it to justify buying a weaker console with inferior multi-play games?

Games and services, same as always.

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

I wanted to love it but from what I've seen it's wearing thin on me. A friend uploaded some beta footage this morning & it just looks like CoD with mechs & after Ghosts I've seen enough CoD references for a life time. It really just reminds me of CoD with a couple of gimmicks chucked in on top for good measure.

Sucks for you. Majority of the people who have PLAYED the game are loving it. Go look at the impressions thread. It's far from COD with Mechs. But hey.. I've played the game.

 

[badcrumble]

I honestly think they'd go disc-less before they drop Kinect. Digital downloads are gaining ground, and they'd be selling the disc-less version to more casual consumers who tend to play smaller sized games anyway. And tbh, disc-less with Kinect would be the smarter of the two options.

A discless SKU would certainly solve the problem of too many XBOs on the shelves at retailers.

And Microsoft really can't see "pissing off people who have already given you their money" as any sort of downside. If you've already bought an Xbox One from Microsoft, with regard to their hardware strategy, you are less important to MS than someone who hasn't bought one yet but might in the future.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Didn't we discover already that cboat was full of it? I'm so confused

 

[Cimeas]

I wanted to believe that Kinect would work, and it does its job fine, I suppose.

But that's it. There's no killer app. There's no magic moment when it all makes sense.

 

[BuzzJive]

Isn't Destiny coming to 360/PS3 as well?

Yes. And I already own a 360. At this point, I expect the 360 version to be so inferior that I'll want to shell out ~$400 to get the full experience, but maybe that won't be the case. Maybe I'll just hold out until the next must have game comes out.

 

[EL CUCO]

Didn't we discover already that cboat was full of it? I'm so confused

How so? These things can change as they go. Hell, I dont doubt that MS put in a call to EA and said "hey you have to get higher than 720p on Titanfall, we cant let those "insiders" be right."

These parts are constantly moving.

 

[ShinAmano]

The thing that still baffles me is..when the ps3/360 got announced and the prices hit I remember Microsoft was super happy that they were cheaper and that was the goal. I was sure that at worst the xb1/ps4 would be the same price...but thought microsoft would come in cheaper. I don't understand what happened.

That said I am an Xb1 owner...will grab a ps4 at some point.

 

[Biker19]

Lol @ "It's MS, they have the money".

Amseemingly highly inefficient and unprofitable subdivision of microsoft that currently has all the investor's eyes fixed on it, deciding it's future.
Now the newest console is looking to get dominated in their one previously strongest market and you expect them to take a complete bath on every unit sold just because they can? I'd like to see the pitch meeting for that one.

"Fuck it, let's flush away millions and millions of dollars to potentially increase marketshare. We're Microsoft!"

Imagine that you have to report to your investors about the profitability of this system:

Investor: "Why is Xbox One taking losses when it's supposed to make us money?"

"Well, we had to cut the price by $100 to get more consoles selling..."

What will happen if they say something like, "You know what? Fuck it, you either spin off the entire Xbox division, or you shut it down, because this division is never going to make us any more profit?", etc.

Microsoft is in a no win situation at this point.

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

I wanted to believe that Kinect would work, and it does its job fine, I suppose.

But that's it. There's no killer app. There's no magic moment when it all makes sense.

Mine works great for what I use it for. I've been loving it. Hopefully Rivals is that game that starts the Kinect games off a bit. I like the first 2 Kinect Sports... I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy this one by the looks of it. Loved the little Wave Race demo. Brings back old memories.

 

[Lynn616]

No, but what other way is it to justify buying a weaker console with inferior multi-play games?

Exclusives.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

How so? These things can change as they go. Hell, I dont doubt that MS put in a call to EA and said "hey you have to get higher than 720p on Titanfall, we cant let those "insiders" be right."

These parts are constantly moving.

That's true. Well I'll take everything he says with a grain of salt. I thought MS already debunked the rumor about a kinectless xbone. I think it's likely that we'll eventually see one, so it's not too hard to take a stab in the dark on this one.

 

[cakely]

Pre-launch, I was confident that there would be a $400 Kinectless Xbox SKU soon after launch.

Soon after, reading this forum, it was drilled into my head, over and over again that that SKU would never happen. So I just sort of gave up on the idea of owning an Xbox One this year.

Now, again! More rumors. I don't really want to get my hopes up, but if there's really going to be a $400, Kinectless SKU with a pack-in game (Forza 5, or Dead Rising 3, please), I could go for that.

 

[Mastamind]

A discless SKU would certainly solve the problem of too many XBOs on the shelves at retailers.

And Microsoft really can't see "pissing off people who have already given you their money" as any sort of downside. If you've already bought an Xbox One from Microsoft, with regard to their hardware strategy, you are less important to MS than someone who hasn't bought one yet but might in the future.

Of course they can, software is the big money maker. Piss off those people and then they stop buying the software.

 

[SHADES]

Sucks for you. Majority of the people who have PLAYED the game are loving it. Go look at the impressions thread. It's far from COD with Mechs. But hey.. I've played the game.

Maybe, but that's my opinion that I've formed from footage that I've seen, I didn't say it played like CoD , but a lot of the gunplay/ challenges etc remind me/looks like CoD from what I've seen, and I've had my fill of CoD tbh.

I mean I brought an XBone for Titanfall mainly but so far I've not been impressed with either so sold it and tbh I don't feel like I'm missing much and even if I do from what I've seen & with Bluepoint doing the 360 version if want it that badly I'll bring the 360 out of retirement. Really, it's no biggy.

 

[Sydle]

The thing that still baffles me is..when the ps3/360 got announced and the prices hit I remember Microsoft was super happy that they were cheaper and that was the goal. I was sure that at worst the xb1/ps4 would be the same price...but thought microsoft would come in cheaper. I don't understand what happened.

That said I am an Xb1 owner...will grab a ps4 at some point.

• 360 won NA and UK (compared to PS3)
• Kinect sold like 25+ million units
• Gold memberships reached north of 35 million
• 40% of 360 usage was non-game

They got arrogant thinking these elements, particularly Kinect and the multi-media functions, indicated the Xbox brand worth a lot more to consumers than when 360 launched.

What baffles me is how they missed the part where PS3 caught them worldwide with a higher price. It's like it took them a whole generation to figure out it's because of all the games and new IP.

 

[SwiftDeath]

MS needs to drop the price of the XB1 by at least $100 to try and stay relevant in the console market. And they need to do so this year before the PS4 can get too much of a lead.

Given that assumption, there are only 2 logical options I see before them

1. Drop the price $100 while keeping the kinect.
2. Drop the Kinect as it exists currently and drop the price $100.

If they drop the price $100 while keeping the kinect. They are accepting something to the order of $80 losses on every console sold. With expectations of at least 10 million sold a year, you're talking $800 million of unforeseen losses right out of the gate after $100 million in controller R&D, $400 million for the NFL deal, and a billion dollars for games. They would be out at least $2.3 billion dollars without even counting the costs of renting warehouses for unsold XB1 stock during the periods it fails to sell what they expect. All of this just to ensure they can try and be more competitive with the PS4 while keeping the albatross that is the kinect in the box. There is no guarantee of success and almost complete certainty that they would still end up in 2nd place.

If they drop the kinect as it exists and drop the price, they can either simply drop the kinect completely and the costs to drop the price $100. This means of price drop is considerably less costly and far more reasonable from their shareholders point of view. OR they can develop a cheap $10 - $15 multi-directional array microphone/IR blaster that delivers 98% of the USP that everyone loves the kinect for. Seriously the majority of the cost is the kinect camera which outside of kinect-only games, streaming and skyping is useless. Fighter Within shows how great 3rd party games for kinect will likely continue to be from last gen, the fact it's going to take almost 6 months for MS to deliver a kinect based game to try and justify the majority of the cost of kinect is ludicrous.

The only rational move that MS has going forward if sales continue to be below expectations is to remove the kinect as it exists. If MS values the voice commands and IR capabilities of the kinect, there are easy solutions to implement them at less than a fourth of the cost of the kinect as it exists. There is no rational reason to keep the kinect as it stands currently if sales continue to be this low. Casuals will not buy a console this expensive to play dance games as the Wii and 360 still exist for less than half that price. Console sales have never been dictated by USP before last gen with the waggle era and Wii. It will not matter to the general audience if one console is more powerful than the other as much as the games and price will. If MS drops the price they can simply deliver exclusive games and justify their console in that way like every other damn console maker since the beginning of video games.

 

[xxracerxx]

It was obvious Microsoft is getting out of the business of pure camera games. You'll get some here and there. like Kinect Sports, but it's main use will be the microphone, broadcasting and console navigation.

It was a huge misstep that MS didn't actually have Twitch broadcasting at launch. That should have been one of the priorities.

 

[ShinAmano]

• 360 won NA and UK (compared to PS3)
• Kinect sold like 25+ million units
• Gold memberships reached north of 35 million
• 40% of 360 usage was non-game

They got arrogant thinking these elements, particularly Kinect and the multi-media functions, indicated the Xbox brand worth a lot more to consumers than when 360 launched.

What baffles me is how they missed the part where PS3 caught them worldwide with a higher price. It's like it took them a whole generation to figure out it's because of all the games and new IP.

Sounds about right. I hope the right the ship.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

They can drop Kinect and put a microphone in the front of the console (or as a USB attachment) and get cost down and keep all the voice command stuff.

People seem to like that but you seldom hear of people saying they use the gestures. Liking the room scanning to ID people and sign into profiles is about the only camera-specific feature I've heard people liking. And I doubt people think that's worth $100.

 

[Nickerbocker98]

Were you looking at Titanfall with your eyes...or with your heart? If you look with your feeble eyes you'll see the 792p...if you look with your heart, you'll see the love.

That's deep, man

 

[Killing_Joke]

A kinectless version seems kind of pointless imo. No one is going to buy the damn thing separate if they're already not interested in it. So suck it up and just lower the price with Kinect included.

 

[Effigenius]

They can drop Kinect and put a microphone in the front of the console (or as a USB attachment) and get cost down and keep all the voice command stuff.

People seem to like that but you seldom hear of people saying they use the gestures. Liking the room scanning to ID people and sign into profiles is about the only camera-specific feature I've heard people liking. And I doubt people think that's worth $100.

How long does that scanning take? Nobody else uses my consoles. I don't want to wait 30 seconds for the camera to identify me every time.

I do like the idea of voice commands. Could they work with the headset?

 

[RetroStu]

A kinectless version seems kind of pointless imo. No one is going to buy the damn thing separate if they're already not interested in it. So suck it up and just lower the price with Kinect included.

Eh?, but thats the point. If you don't want Kinect then you will buy the cheaper sku without kinect, if you do want kinect then you buy the more expensive sku.

 

[shone237]

This is good news in that it will keep developers from forcing kinect into their game. I just started playing Dead Rising 3 out of desperation for a next gen game and as soon as I realized it had kinect integration I immediately felt anger that I could not resell my used digital download.

I find it very surprising that xbone has yet to release a game like Kinect party. A simple VR game for kids. I've tried a lot of kinect games and that one is the only kinect game my kids have any interest in. When I saw the ps4 had those little robots, I just assumed Microsoft would have something too. Instead they have some horrible sport game that is EXACTLY the same as the one on the 360.

If the kinect fails at launch, nobody is to blame but microsaoft for it's lack of creating any use for it besides logging in.

 

[Effigenius]

Probably comes with Titanfall

I bet it's Forza.

 

[xxracerxx]

I do like the idea of voice commands. Could they work with the headset?

Of course, but there are people here who are bitching about having to use a headset. So the offered solution is include a mic in the console itself or as a small USB mic.

 

[Nymphae]

Wow, I still am skeptical they would ever ditch Kinect. That would be such a failure.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't I suppose. Not many want it included right now it seems, but they take it out, then everyone is going to lambast them for going back on their strategy once again, and neutering the TV functionality they worked so hard to hype.

 

[samus4ever]

How long does that scanning take? Nobody else uses my consoles. I don't want to wait 30 seconds for the camera to identify me every time.

I do like the idea of voice commands. Could they work with the headset?

Scanning takes less time then it does for my tv to power on.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't I suppose. Not many want it included right now it seems, but they take it out, then everyone is going to lambast them for going back on their strategy once again, and neutering the TV functionality they worked so hard to hype.

Remove kinect, include a very cheap microphone/IR blaster array, TV functionality and voice commands work exactly the same way while saving likely $60 - $65 BOM

What's the problem now?

 

[Nafai1123]

It was a huge misstep that MS didn't actually have Twitch broadcasting at launch. That should have been one of the priorities.

I don't think they realized what a big draw it would be. I'm still amazed at how popular it's been on PS4 and how it's basically driven PS Eye sales all on it's own. If they had streaming at launch I think there would be a very different narrative regarding Kinect.

 

[twinturbo2]

Great post

The worry now, to my mind, is that Microsoft will panic to the extent that they will cut off their nose to spite their face.

Same here.

 

[hooligan]

Imagine that you have to report to your investors about the profitability of this system:

Investor: "Why is Xbox One taking losses when it's supposed to make us money?"

"Well, we had to cut the price by $100 to get more consoles selling..."

What will happen if they say something like, "You know what? Fuck it, you either spin off the entire Xbox division, or you shut it down, because this division is never going to make us any more profit?", etc.

Microsoft is in a no win situation at this point.

You know nothing about the how public corporations actually work and their relationship with investors, much less anything about the business of selling consoles. The first half of the console cycle is loss leading to sell hardware while the second half is profitable as costs go down and license fees go up. The xbox one is no different. The PS4 is no different. They will lose money in the early years and make money in the later years. The investors that matter (the ones who control millions and billions of dollars in MSFT stock) i.e. not people like you, understand that consoles lose money in the early years. The idea (and this is all this is, an external idea by wall st analysts and activist shareholders that has never come out of the mouth of any MSFT executive) to spin off the xbox division is a strategic question of whether an enterprise software company should be selling videogames and tablets at all. It has nothing to do with whether it loses or makes money, and especially nothing to do with if a console loses money in the first year, which it is SUPPOSED to do. In fact companies spin off divisions that make a lot of money all the time if they are not strategic.
On a different note, the broader question for MSFT and Sony is are the second half profits justifying the losses? And it is looking more and more like the answer is no, unless they find more revenue streams for the second half of the cycle. At this point Sony has the better hardware, but if both are still in the game in 5 years my money is on MSFT innovating and finding those new revenue streams even with an inferior box. If those revenue streams don't exist this is surely the last generation of "consoles" as we know it so just enjoy them while we have them.

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

Maybe, but that's my opinion that I've formed from footage that I've seen, I didn't say it played like CoD , but a lot of the gunplay/ challenges etc remind me/looks like CoD from what I've seen, and I've had my fill of CoD tbh.

I mean I brought an XBone for Titanfall mainly but so far I've not been impressed with either so sold it and tbh I don't feel like I'm missing much and even if I do from what I've seen & with Bluepoint doing the 360 version if want it that badly I'll bring the 360 out of retirement. Really, it's no biggy.

I think you'll have fun playing it. It's fast and furious.

 

[DR3AM]

does anybody here actually use the Kinect besides the voice commands?

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

does anybody here actually use the Kinect besides the voice commands?

Skype with my Mom so she can see her Grandboys... use a code and auto sign in are my most used with the cam right now. Waiting excitedly for Kinect Sports.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Waiting excitedly for Kinect Sports.

Isn't there a Rivals demo though?