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[Kysen]

If MS is serious about holding onto their marketshare in the UK that ￡425 price tag needs looking at. For reference ps3 released at that price and it was the chief reason for me switching to xbox which was far cheaper.

 

[PSGames]

This thread got very interesting.

I expected some commentary on this, but the direction it went surprised me.

The part that surprised me the most is the belief that we've somehow "lost our vision" or that we are "radically different" from what we announced.

Are we listening and adjusting the plans? We are. Are we making some concessions in areas where people have strong feelings? We are.

Are we altering are vision or losing faith? No.

We made one policy decision that was a major reversal around digital rights vs. physical media. It was the only time major features were changed, like family sharing, and some of the online check-in stuff that was related to it. It was the right call.

If you go back to the Unveil and E3 conferences, today's announcement doesn't change or diminish what we've said we were doing at all. All we said today is that we weren't going to brick the box if Kinect was unplugged. People making a leap thinking that means we've completely disconnected Kinect from the system would be wrong.

Once you guys experience the console, some of the criticisms may be valid, and many won't. The controller will not be the best way to navigate the dash - things like instant switching, snap mode, sign-in, and search are going to be vastly superior with Kinect. There is no controller UI that will beat "Xbox, Snap Skype", or "Xbox, Go to Killer Instinct".

The idea that the controller is the best way to navigate makes sense in reference to Xbox 360, but it's not true in Xbox One. You can completely control the dash with a controller, but many cases are deprecated versions of how it will work with voice.

If we were to remove Kinect from the bundle, then THAT would be a 180... but it's not going to happen. This was a very minor policy change, for people who had privacy concerns or repair issues. As someone earlier stated, my guess is that very few people will take advantage of the feature. But knowing it's there as an option is important.

Anyway, that's all my commentary on this. Bowing out for the evening.

I'm a huge Kinect fan and was starting to get a little nervous that Kinect would no longer be a focus. Thanks for the clarification. If all I wanted from a nextgen system was the best graphics I'd get a ps4 or gaming pc and call it a day. I prefer a fresh new experience and I have high hopes an improved kinect can provide that. But it will only get the attention it deserves if its standard with every sku.

 

[Freezie KO]

As someone earlier stated, my guess is that very few people will take advantage of the feature.

I love PR.

 

[Finalizer]

I love PR.

"Removing features is also a feature!"

 

[Ovek]

Ahh such a nice way to fuck all the developers who have been told of the past 24 months that every xbone will come will a always available kinect sensor.

But it's ok it was just a minor policy change.

 

[ElTorro]

As someone earlier stated, my guess is that very few people will take advantage of the feature.

Can the Kinect cable be also disconnected on the Kinect unit itself or only on the Xbox? If it can only be disconnected on the Xbox, I seriously doubt that anyone would bother with crawling into his or her entertainment setup just to pull-out or plug-in the cable repeatedly.

 

[Wynnebeck]

The one that want Kinect removed don't share your vision,for the console and still see it's developmental and technical limitations based on the old Kinect. They can go buy a PS4. Sony has decided to put no stake or faith into their camera and it will show in software diversity and sales.

My personal feeling is that to offer increased value for the $499 price, MS should offer one year of live gold free as well as a free digital copy of any single 1st party Xbox One game through to January 1st, 2015. That'll change the nature of things pretty quickly.

LOL this is ridiculous. "People who don't like Xbone can go buy a PS4!" I guess Xbone fans who don't want Kinect are out of luck. Also, why are you talking about Sony at all? This is about Kinect.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Ahh such a nice way to fuck all the developers who have been told of the past 24 months that every xbone will come will a always available kinect sensor.

But it's ok it was just a minor policy change.

all xbones will still have the kinect (at least for now). Its up to the owner whether or not he wants to turn it on or off. they can still put in those features and assume that when people are playing games the kinect will be on.

 

[Metfanant]

My personal feeling is that to offer increased value for the $499 price, MS should offer one year of live gold free as well as a free digital copy of any single 1st party Xbox One game through to January 1st, 2015. That'll change the nature of things pretty quickly.

Honestly? This is a console launch...I think the Xbone is a little overpriced (because I don't see the personal value of Kinect) but purely from a hardware cost standpoint the price is probably right at $499...just like I think the PS3 was a steal at $599 (considering stand alone BD players were going for $900+ at the time)...

But some.if you guys expecting mid-generation like bundles with free retail games or free XBL Gold are just crazy...if you want to play the early adopter game there is a cost that is associated with that...you don't get major freebies with launch consoles...

LOL this is ridiculous. "People who don't like Xbone can go buy a PS4!" I guess Xbone fans who don't want Kinect are out of luck. Also, why are you talking about Sony at all? This is about Kinect.

Honest question..is gimping the TV guide feature worth being able to unplug Kinect?

 

[derFeef]

Ahh such a nice way to fuck all the developers who have been told of the past 24 months that every xbone will come will a always available kinect sensor.

But it's ok it was just a minor policy change.

What are you talking about? The games that require Kinect are oviously full Kinect games, and the features that are "only" minor are a small part of the games like we had now with voice control and such. There is no "fucking the developers" because of all this.

My gosh, everything MS does is bad one way or another it seems.

 

[Dead Man]

The one that want Kinect removed don't share your vision,for the console and still see it's developmental and technical limitations based on the old Kinect. They can go buy a PS4. Sony has decided to put no stake or faith into their camera and it will show in software diversity and sales.

My personal feeling is that to offer increased value for the $499 price, MS should offer one year of live gold free as well as a free digital copy of any single 1st party Xbox One game through to January 1st, 2015. That'll change the nature of things pretty quickly.

I don't think MS would see that as acceptable.

Ahh such a nice way to fuck all the developers who have been told of the past 24 months that every xbone will come will a always available kinect sensor.

But it's ok it was just a minor policy change.

What the hell are you talking about? It still will.

 

[Elrina]

Ahh such a nice way to fuck all the developers who have been told of the past 24 months that every xbone will come will a always available kinect sensor.

But it's ok it was just a minor policy change.

You do realize that those developers won't care if it can be unplugged or not, since every console sold can still be counted on to have one included, right?

They care about the attach rate, which will be 100%, meaning every single Xbox One owner will be capable of experiencing anything they make that requires Kinect, whether they keep it plugged in all the time or not.

People expressing displeasure over this are being way too dramatic. The only people this matters or affects at all are the people who want to be able to unplug it when they aren't actively using it for something.

 

[Alx]

"Removing features is also a feature!"

No feature has been removed. You'll still be able to do anything you could do with kinect, and it will still be included in the box.
The only thing that changed is that you can unplug it when you don't want to use it, while previously the console would have seemingly refused to work. It's something you can do now that you couldn't before, so it's a new feature.

 

[RedAssedApe]

My personal feeling is that to offer increased value for the $499 price, MS should offer one year of live gold free as well as a free digital copy of any single 1st party Xbox One game through to January 1st, 2015. That'll change the nature of things pretty quickly.

monkeys going to fly outta my bum if this happens. you aren't buying a bundle.

 

[Finalizer]

My personal feeling is that to offer increased value for the $499 price, MS should offer one year of live gold free as well as a free digital copy of any single 1st party Xbox One game through to January 1st, 2015. That'll change the nature of things pretty quickly.

Dat wishful thinking.

No feature has been removed. You'll still be able to do anything you could do with kinect, and it will still be included in the box.
The only thing that changed is that you can unplug it when you don't want to use it, while previously the console would have seemingly refused to work. It's something you can do now that you couldn't before, so it's a new feature.

I was just joking mang. The most accurate way to describe it would be to say, it gives you the option of utilizing a feature or not.

As I said earlier in the thread, it's probably the best solution to placating fears of having an always-connected Kinect while ensuring 100% attach rate for those who actually want to see the device used by developers. It wont please everyone, namely those who want a cheaper box without Kinect, but it's probably the one that gets the least eggs thrown at MS.

 

[damidu]

good.
now just get rid of the damned thing and give me a 350$ console ms.

 

[MogCakes]

No feature has been removed. You'll still be able to do anything you could do with kinect, and it will still be included in the box.
The only thing that changed is that you can unplug it when you don't want to use it, while previously the console would have seemingly refused to work. It's something you can do now that you couldn't before, so it's a new feature.

But it's not. It's a basic option. People have been questioning it's exclusion for a while now. To see it listed as a 'feature' is a bit much to swallow.

 

[Alx]

But it's not. It's a basic option.

An option is a feature. By definition, a feature is anything you can do with your device. Being able to turn your TV on and off is a feature, even if it is a basic one.

 

[xxracerxx]

No feature has been removed. You'll still be able to do anything you could do with kinect, and it will still be included in the box.
The only thing that changed is that you can unplug it when you don't want to use it, while previously the console would have seemingly refused to work. It's something you can do now that you couldn't before, so it's a new feature.

Jesus

 

[derFeef]

But it's not. It's a basic option. People have been questioning it's exclusion for a while now. To see it listed as a 'feature' is a bit much to swallow.

So they shuld bury it in the manuals and not lose a word about it - that would make people happy?

 

[Wynnebeck]

Honest question..is gimping the TV guide feature worth being able to unplug Kinect?

Yes.

 

[CadetMahoney]

No feature has been removed.

Well some ppl here think it has for some reason.

 

[Elrina]

Honest question..is gimping the TV guide feature worth being able to unplug Kinect?

Obviously using the TV Guide features will require having the Kinect actually plugged in. My biggest concern is that the TV guide is locked behind the Xbox Gold paywall. I'd like to be able to unplug the Kinect, personally, at my home, when it isn't in use. However, my dad is interested in an Xbox One and he actively dislikes video games.

With such a heavy emphasis on the Kinect related television and movie features, I can't help but wonder why they would lock the TV Guide of all things behind XBL Gold. The rest of the new features I can vaguely understand, even if I don't agree with. But the TV Guide?

When I told him how the Xbox One worked, he was fine with paying a high upfront cost, for it's television/movie/skype abilities on his HDTV. But when I inform him that it will come along with an annual $60 fee, just for accessing the fancy tv guide in it, he's going to lose that interest.

Honestly, I see gimping the TV Guide as keeping it behind the paywall.

 

[FortMajor]

This thread got very interesting.

I expected some commentary on this, but the direction it went surprised me.

The part that surprised me the most is the belief that we've somehow "lost our vision" or that we are "radically different" from what we announced.

Are we listening and adjusting the plans? We are. Are we making some concessions in areas where people have strong feelings? We are.

Are we altering are vision or losing faith? No.

We made one policy decision that was a major reversal around digital rights vs. physical media. It was the only time major features were changed, like family sharing, and some of the online check-in stuff that was related to it. It was the right call.

If you go back to the Unveil and E3 conferences, today's announcement doesn't change or diminish what we've said we were doing at all. All we said today is that we weren't going to brick the box if Kinect was unplugged. People making a leap thinking that means we've completely disconnected Kinect from the system would be wrong.

Once you guys experience the console, some of the criticisms may be valid, and many won't. The controller will not be the best way to navigate the dash - things like instant switching, snap mode, sign-in, and search are going to be vastly superior with Kinect. There is no controller UI that will beat "Xbox, Snap Skype", or "Xbox, Go to Killer Instinct".

The idea that the controller is the best way to navigate makes sense in reference to Xbox 360, but it's not true in Xbox One. You can completely control the dash with a controller, but many cases are deprecated versions of how it will work with voice.

If we were to remove Kinect from the bundle, then THAT would be a 180... but it's not going to happen. This was a very minor policy change, for people who had privacy concerns or repair issues. As someone earlier stated, my guess is that very few people will take advantage of the feature. But knowing it's there as an option is important.

Anyway, that's all my commentary on this. Bowing out for the evening.

thanks again al. Hopefully it will stop all these posts about MS scrambling or having no focus but I don't it. Keep up the good work.

 

[lazydom]

Have any developers REALLY used kinect on a non-kinect game? Could it be that motion/voice controls don't really lend themselves to "hardcore gaming" rather than devs not using them this gen because kinect 1 didn't have a 100% attach rate?

 

[derFeef]

Also have to thank Mr. Penello for coming in here and giving us clarificaion (and dealing with us .
This is good times - I enjoy the new openness.

 

[MogCakes]

An option is a feature. By definition, a feature is anything you can do with your device. Being able to turn your TV on and off is a feature, even if it is a basic one.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feature
a : a prominent part or characteristic
b : any of the properties (as voice or gender) that are characteristic of a grammatical element (as a phoneme or morpheme); especially : one that is distinctive

^I don't consider being able to completely turn off a peripheral to be a prominent feature. It is basic.

So they shuld bury it in the manuals and not lose a word about it - that would make people happy?

Yes. Make a note that it can now be turned off completely and unplugged with no word spin. That would be great.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No feature has been removed. You'll still be able to do anything you could do with kinect, and it will still be included in the box.
The only thing that changed is that you can unplug it when you don't want to use it, while previously the console would have seemingly refused to work. It's something you can do now that you couldn't before, so it's a new feature.

That's really stretching what a new feature is.

Time to stahp, Alx.

 

[NullPointer]

But it's not. It's a basic option. People have been questioning it's exclusion for a while now. To see it listed as a 'feature' is a bit much to swallow.

If it was originally designed to expect the Kinect to be always physically attached, and MS decided to change that in the wake of feedback, and that change took planning, work, and testing, then yes, thats a feature, and in this case it's one worth bringing to people's attention.

Functional changes don't just fall out of the sky. They'll be working on this thing until the last moment possible, and beyond that point I'm sure. It sounds like we're hearing about things as they're being fully confirmed.

Releasing videos about improvements and features I don't see the competition doing anything comparable.

This is true. All's quiet on the eastern front.

 

[FortMajor]

Also have to thank Mr. Penello for coming in here and giving us clarificaion (and dealing with us .
This is good times - I enjoy the new openness.

for all the shit MS is getting they are keeping us in the loop and actually taking the time to interact with us. Releasing videos about improvements and features I don't see the competition doing anything comparable.

 

[c0de]

Seems to be important for a lot of people, not for me. If I buy it, then because of games which look very promising already.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Ahh such a nice way to fuck all the developers who have been told of the past 24 months that every xbone will come will a always available kinect sensor.

But it's ok it was just a minor policy change.

It doesn't fuck over devs. It's still going to be in the box, and we still have to pay for it even if we never intend to use it for anything.

 

[FeiRR]

Once you guys experience the console, some of the criticisms may be valid, and many won't. The controller will not be the best way to navigate the dash - things like instant switching, snap mode, sign-in, and search are going to be vastly superior with Kinect. There is no controller UI that will beat "Xbox, Snap Skype", or "Xbox, Go to Killer Instinct".

I love it when people tell me what is best for me. I think all mute, speech disabled and non-English speaking people will love your console as much. Xbox, stay in America.

 

[Finalizer]

for all the shit MS is getting they are keeping us in the loop and actually taking the time to interact with us. Releasing videos about improvements and features I don't see the competition doing anything comparable.

I seem to recall not too long ago how some users were getting sick of all the threads dedicated to Cerny interviews that kept popping up.

Short-term memory indeed.

(That said, I'd be totally down with a UI walkthrough, PS4 unboxing, and all those kinds of things TBH)

 

[xxracerxx]

for all the shit MS is getting they are keeping us in the loop and actually taking the time to interact with us. Releasing videos about improvements and features I don't see the competition doing anything comparable.

Keeping us in the loop? Oh mahgawd what saints!

I hardly call this keeping us in the loop. This is PR to get sales, plain and simple.

 

[MogCakes]

If it was originally designed to expect the Kinect to be always physically attached, and MS decided to change that in the wake of feedback, and that change takes planning, work, and testing, then yes, thats a feature, and one worth bringing to people's attention.

Functional changes don't just fall out of the sky. They'll be working on this thing until the last moment possible, and beyond that point I'm sure. It sounds like we're hearing about things as they're being fully confirmed.

It isn't a prominent part of the product in this case, however. As Albert said it's a minor policy change. IF implementing this changed the nature of Kinect's importance to the Xbox One (EDIT: or it's functionality), then it would be a pretty major change (and Albert's post hasn't given that indication), but even then it couldn't be called a 'feature'. It's a bit silly to advertise Kinect as "it features the ability to be unplugged!"

 

[Pseudo judo]

LOL this is ridiculous. "People who don't like Xbone can go buy a PS4!" I guess Xbone fans who don't want Kinect are out of luck. Also, why are you talking about Sony at all? This is about Kinect.

If the core part of your vision for your product isn't wanted by a selection of consumers but desired or at least accepted by a larger part of your consumers, is it better to abandon your vision to satisfy the minority? You say yes, I say no. It's a difference of opinion and hardly ridiculous. It seems natural to say that the ones who don't share your vision will go to the competitor. You can't get 100% of the market after all

I'm not a Kinect fan, didn't even consider it as a purchase for the 360 but I see where MS trying to go with it now and I'm over my former apathy for it. My problem with Xbox One is just the perception of value, nothing else.

 

[NullPointer]

I love it when people tell me what is best for me. I think all mute, speech disabled and non-English speaking people will love your console as much. Xbox, stay in America.

Jesus Christ. So talking up the merits of voice UI is some kind of backwards slight to those with speech impediments?

We're off the deep end here.

It isn't a prominent part of the product in this case, however. As Albert said it's a minor policy change. IF implementing this changed the nature of Kinect's importance to the Xbox One, then it would be a pretty major change (and Albert's post hasn't given that indication), but even then it couldn't be called a 'feature'. It's a bit silly to advertise Kinect as "it features the ability to be unplugged!"

Well, its a newly added capability. If this something patched into software after release it'd be in the patch list of features or changes. But I'm not really hung up on the terminology as much as the intent to get the word out, and techs seeing it as "something" customers might want to know about and take advantage of, whatever you want to call it.

It is a minor change, but an important one I think, and am glad it was done.

 

[Bsigg12]

I love it when people tell me what is best for me. I think all mute, speech disabled and non-English speaking people will love your console as much. Xbox, stay in America.

This here, is a great post.

 

[ElTorro]

It isn't a prominent part of the product in this case, however. As Albert said it's a minor policy change. IF implementing this changed the nature of Kinect's importance to the Xbox One, then it would be a pretty major change (and Albert's post hasn't given that indication), but even then it couldn't be called a 'feature'. It's a bit silly to advertise Kinect as "it features the ability to be unplugged!"

From a software engineering point of view, it is a new requirement for externally visible functionality, and, hence, fully qualifies as a feature. So I agree with NullPointer.

 

[xxracerxx]

Jesus Christ. So talking up the merits of voice UI is some kind of backwards slight to those with speech impediments?

We're off the deep end here.

Accents and non-native speakers are not something to scoff at.

 

[MogCakes]

From a software engineering point of view, it is a new requirement for externally visible functionality, and, hence, fully qualifies as a feature. So I agree with NullPointer.

I'm speaking from a consumer's point of view.

Well, its a newly added capability. If this something patched into software after release it'd be in the patch list of features or changes. But I'm not really hung up on the terminology as much as the intent to get the word out, and techs seeing it as "something" customers might want to know about and take advantage of, whatever you want to call it.

It is a minor change, but an important one I think, and am glad it was done.

We agree in intent and are pretty much just arguing semantics I just don't think it should be defined as a 'feature' in the sense of something a customer would read on the back of a product package.

 

[NullPointer]

Accents and non-native speakers are not something to scoff at.

Does the current Kinect only do english? Have they spoken about non-english speech recognition improvements when it comes to Kinect 2/Xbone?

I don't know, am actually asking here ;P

 

[KnockOneOff]

Problem is, I'm seeing NOTHING new for this next gen

The consoles and controllers look just like the previous generation!

Pretty much just like buying a new graphics card for my PC

 

[glaurung]

Does the current Kinect only do english? Have they spoken about non-english speech recognition improvements when it comes to Kinect 2/Xbone?

I don't know, am actually asking here ;P

I believe Kinect also recognizes the following languages:

French
German
Italian
Japanese
Spanish

Source: http://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-360/kinect/speech-recognition#9eb44282119347fe82c0bea26710a2c2

This is all about Kinect 1.0 though.

 

[Finalizer]

I love it when people tell me what is best for me. I think all mute, speech disabled and non-English speaking people will love your console as much. Xbox, stay in America.

Now now, let's be fair here - it's not like every company in the world is going to hold back features just because 100% of the audience can't/don't want to use them. If they were totally doing away with controller navigation of menus or whatever, that'd be one thing, but this is just giving a new option for those who can use it, and now those who don't want to or can't in the first place can unplug the device if they choose to.

 

[Freezie KO]

Keeping us in the loop? Oh mahgawd what saints!

I hardly call this keeping us in the loop. This is PR to get sales, plain and simple.

Wait, you mean Albert is getting paid to interact with a target market after a disastrously low sales projection from pre-orders?

I thought he liked us.

 

[Alx]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feature
a : a prominent part or characteristic
b : any of the properties (as voice or gender) that are characteristic of a grammatical element (as a phoneme or morpheme); especially : one that is distinctive

^I don't consider being able to completely turn off a peripheral to be a prominent feature. It is basic.



Yes. Make a note that it can now be turned off completely and unplugged with no word spin. That would be great.

That's really stretching what a new feature is.

Time to stahp, Alx.

In engineering, "feature" has the same definition as "functionality" :
http://www.dictionaryofengineering.com/definition/feature.html

A characteristic which is meant to be useful, unique, or otherwise favorable. For instance, safety, convenience, or electrical characteristics which are especially suitable for a given task or function.

If it does something that you want it to do, it's a feature.
(some even have a wider definition, "if it does something we said it would do, it's a feature", hence the old programmer joke "it's not a bug, it's a feature !").

 

[ElTorro]

I'm speaking from a consumer's point of view.

Sure, but someone internal to Microsoft would see it as an engineering issue with all the technical and organization implications already mentioned. That is the reason why I don't see a reason to roast him over the use of the word "feature".

 

[xxracerxx]

Does the current Kinect only do english? Have they spoken about non-english speech recognition improvements when it comes to Kinect 2/Xbone?

I don't know, am actually asking here ;P

I personally have not read anything on improved non-English speech recognition, but I do know Kinect v1 has some issues with it. Just search on YouTube for examples.