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[3liteDragon]

[History of Video Games Vol.2] Early History of Marvel Games (included discussions with Activision, Microsoft & Sony)

An interesting segment on Marvel Game's early history and how they reached out to both Microsoft and Sony to explore potential first-party deals, how they had to negotiate with Activision to terminate the Spider-Man deal earlier than deadline, and some extra details on Sony/Insomniac/Marvel...

www.resetera.com

Quotes from Jay Ong (Executive VP & Head of Marvel Games) & Ted Price (Founder & CEO of Insomniac Games).

Marvel Games reaching out to Xbox & PlayStation & why Microsoft passed over a Marvel deal

What he needed was a publishing partner who hadn't adopted the "crappy licensed games" mentality. He needed a company with an eye for long-term investments, one with a vested interest that would benefit from building a franchise. That partner would need to have a deep pool of talent, commitment to quality, and inexhaustibly deep pockets. There were three companies that fit that description. One of them, Nintendo, mostly developed games based on its own intellectual properties.

Being from console first-party in my past, I pinged both sides, both Xbox and PlayStation, and said, "We don't have any big console deals with anyone right now. What would you like to do?" Microsoft's strategy was to focus on their own IP. They passed.

I sat down with these two execs from PlayStation third-party, Adam Boyes and John Drake, in August 2014, in a conference room in Burbank. I said, "We have a dream that this is possible, that we could beat Arkham and have one game at least and maybe multiple games that could drive adoption of your platform."

PlayStation, Marvel Games & Insomniac - Marvel's Spider-Man and a worthy rival to Arkham

Sony turned the project over to Insomniac Games,*18 an independent studio at the time, but one of Sony's most important partners. Insomniac had a long list of hits that were published under the Sony label—Spyro the Dragon, Ratchet & Clank, Resistance: Fall of Man, and most recently Sunset Overdrive.*19

Insomniac was an obvious choice for the project. As a studio, Insomniac had an impeccable record as both a designer of hit games and a reliable partner for Sony. Another plus, one of the studio's most recent games, Sunset Overdrive, incorporated a fast-paced, highly acrobatic style of combat that was equal parts parkour, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, and Call of Duty, a very Spider-Man style of fighting that involved swinging and grinding over cities while facing multiple enemies.

Insomniac's ability to create games based on already existing intellectual property may have caused some concern. Historically, the studio created IP rather than building off of other companies' ideas. In truth, other companies adapted Insomniac's IP.*20
When we heard of the opportunity, thanks to Connie [Sony Interactive Entertainment vice president of product development Connie Booth] at Sony, it was a real surprise for me because up until that point we had been working on our own IP and hadn't really contemplated working on existing franchises.

Sony's participation in this project would be anything but passive. Including marketing, the budget for franchise-building games like Marvel's Spider-Man routinely exceeded $100 million. With so much money and prestige on the line, Sony Interactive Entertainment assigned senior director Grady Hunt and PS4 designer Mark Cerny to consult on the project. Both men had worked as Sony consultants with Insomniac on early projects as well.

The three-way collaboration between Insomniac, Marvel, and Sony was a success. Having partnered with Insomniac many times throughout the PlayStation and PS2 eras, Sony executives had confidence in the studio's technical and game design savvy. For their part, studio founder Ted Price and his fellow "Insomniacs" understood how to work with Sony as well. Having worked in different industries serving a mostly similar audience, Price's Insomniacs had a natural affinity with their Marvel counterparts as well.

Very early on, we knew that there was a great chemistry between us and our compatriots at Marvel. A lot of that came from being able to learn more about the Marvel universe from those who were really experts in it…guys like Bill Rosemann [executive creative director, Marvel Games]. At the same time, the Marvel team was fantastic in trusting us to come up with a new story…to come up with a new take on Peter Parker, and to explore the mechanics of what Spider-Man could be in a modern game.

Along with its proven track record, Insomniac brought technical expertise to the project. Like so many games of the PS3/Xbox 360 era, Arkham Asylum was built using Unreal Engine 3, a versatile and powerful engine created by Epic. Insomniac used its proprietary Insomniac Engine.

The Insomniac Engine enabled us to create a very large city. The New York we created for Marvel's Spider-Man was ten times the size of the city we created for Sunset Overdrive and more detailed. More importantly, in Spider-Man you can go anywhere because you're Spider-Man. From the very beginning, we had to figure out how to make that work and make the views from the tallest buildings feel believable when we have limited horsepower to use. The goal is to be clever about how you display things and keep the game in frame while giving players a lot of freedom to do whatever they feel like at any time. Spider-Man is kind of the ultimate expression of that.

Marvel's Spider-Man was indeed a worthy rival for the Arkham games. Breaking Spider-Man into the top tier of games wasn't only a question of money and technology; it was a question of finding a team with a grand vision. Insomniac wanted to create an iconic game for an iconic superhero. Marvel's active participation ensured a new level of authenticity. Wanting to create a PlayStation-exclusive franchise, Sony not only lent Marvel's Spider-Man a gigantic marketing budget, the console giant also offered technical support from start to finish.

When it came to Spider-Man, Activision wasn't prepared to compete against games like Batman: Arkham Asylum. Sony was. To date, the Arkham games and Marvel's Spider-Man are unrivaled among superhero games for sales, with a steep drop to the next tier down. In 2020, as Sony prepared to release PlayStation 5, the exclusive game headlining that release was Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales.

Marvel's Spider-Man was the first time that Marvel proper realized that games as a medium could drive the brand…could drive "brand affinity," as we call it.

 

[anthony2690]

Good, for selfish reasons, no interest in marvel super heroes.

 

[Kokoloko85]

But Moneyhat?

 

[LeftThumbstick]

Good.

 

[Cyber_hunter026]

So does this end the narrative that sony moneyhat spider-man?

 

[Hendrick's]

I'm glad. Disney Marvel is garbage.

 

[DarkMage619]

So does this end the narrative that sony moneyhat spider-man?

I always thought Sony money hatted Street Fighter and Final Fantasy. Games that had a history of multi-platform releases. According to this story there was no Marvel game and they were looking for a partner to create one. A little different.

 

[M1chl]

Guardians were fucking great, so that's a loss, but if they would publish the other game, well that would probably make the brand look worse than no game.

 

[Dick Jones]

So are we blaming Don Mattrick on that one?

 

[Mister Wolf]

Smart move.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

So does this end the narrative that sony moneyhat spider-man?

Sony even let insomniac choose which marvel property they would work on. Insomniac chose Spider-Man and now wolverine.

I can't even imagine how much that Spider-Man 2 on PS5 will do. By that point the PS5 will be at around 50M units sold...crazy numbers I'm sure

 

[Zeroing]

So does this end the narrative that sony moneyhat spider-man?

In a perfect world, yes!

 

[Cyber_hunter026]

I always thought Sony money hatted Street Fighter and Final Fantasy. Games that had a history of multi-platform releases. According to this story there was no Marvel game and they were looking for a partner to create one. A little different.

Nope, if I recall a certain amount of people said that sony moneyhat the spider-man ip. now this comes out, it people sing a completely different tune. funny

 

[Warablo]

You guys are really trying hard to spin the blame on Microsoft that Spiderman is exclusive. Sounds like more Marvels fault.

 

[elliot5]

Sounds like we have Microsoft to thank for Spider-Man by passing up IP, focusing on their own projects like Sunset Overdrive which allowed Insomniac to prove their mettle for Spider-Man (/s?)

 

[kingfey]

What studios would make marvel games anyway?
This was unfavorable deal to them, considering they aren't out of halo,Gears, forza.

This was the best outcome for both parties.

Sony with big marvel characters, and 3rd parties for other marvel games.
Meanwhile, Xbox would diversify their IPs outside of gears, forza and halo.

 

[Spitfire098]

Spiderman 2 selling gangbusters!

 

[nominedomine]

Phil doesn't miss.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I don’t have an issue with Insomniac making Marvel games. Somebody needs to make great games for Marvel fans.

 

[skit_data]

I think Insomniac + Sony was a perfect fit. Sony already have stakes in Spider-Man being a successful IP because of the movie rights and Insomniac has the raw talent to create and the right tone for Spider-Man.

 

[nikos]

Good, for selfish reasons, no interest in marvel super heroes.

This.

I respect it.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[skit_data]

I don’t have an issue with Insomniac making Marvel games. Somebody needs to make great games for Marvel fans.

As someone who is genuinely uninterested in the MCU and haven’t seen a Marvel Movie since Age of Ultron but really likes the Spider-Man games I’d also like to point out that somebody also needed to make great games for non-Marvel fans

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I wouldn't be surprised if insomniacs Spider Man outsold all the other ones at this point lmao

 

[Bartski]

Microsoft's strategy was to focus on their own IP. They passed.

good lord.

I couldn't care less about Marvel but I love those inside stories, very interesting.

 

[Kokoloko85]

I always thought Sony money hatted Street Fighter and Final Fantasy. Games that had a history of multi-platform releases. According to this story there was no Marvel game and they were looking for a partner to create one. A little different.

Your right on Street Fighter.
Final Fantasy has a history of being an exclusive. Nintendo had 1-6. Playstation had 7-12/X2

 

[01011001]

Marvel games generally suck ass. Spider-Man is the exception not the rule, and Spider-Man works so well because his powers are fun when translated into gameplay elements.
usually that is not the case.

with Hulk for example all you can really do is to make a generic beat em up... or Iron Man is usually boring because constantly flying around and using weak ass looking hand blasters is simply not that fun.

 

[jroc74]

Hind sight and all that but.....

Cot Dayum....

 

[kingfey]

good lord.

I couldn't care less about Marvel but I love those inside stories, very interesting.

They kind made good decision on that.
While marvel is good, MS doesn't own those ips. So that would be a waste of time for them.

One of thing we/everybody complains about xbox is their games. Considering what they have now, I would say, their gamble paid off, at the result of losing spiderman.

At least this is not bad as passing Sega offer. That was the most moronic decision from them.

 

[DarkMage619]

Nope, if I recall a certain amount of people said that sony moneyhat the spider-man ip. now this comes out, it people sing a completely different tune. funny

Pretty odd to say Sony money hatted a series that didn't exist. I could see Sony leveraging their movie Spider-Man control but not a nonexistent title. This story mentions Marvel in general and Sony went with Spider-Man, again something their company already had an association with. Spider-Man from Insomniac was always just a Sony game.

So are we blaming Don Mattrick on that one?

Looks like the time frame was 2013/14 who was head of Xbox then and how long would that person have been there?

Phil doesn't miss.

What does any of this have to do with Phil Spencer? I assume you blame him for MS not taking the GTA3 deal too?

 

[azertydu91]

Marvel games generally suck ass. Spider-Man is the exception not the rule, and Spider-Man works so well because his powers are fun when translated into gameplay elements.
usually that is not the case.

with Hulk for example all you can really do is to make a generic beat em up... or Iron Man is usually boring because constantly flying around and using weak ass looking hand blasters is simply not that fun.

Iron man VR is awesome though.

 

[Dodkrake]

Xbox ambassadors now:

 

[ManaByte]

I always thought Sony money hatted Street Fighter and Final Fantasy. Games that had a history of multi-platform releases. According to this story there was no Marvel game and they were looking for a partner to create one. A little different.

It also has nothing to do with the movie rights.

 

[phil_t98]

I personally love marvel films but I think the bubble has burst since end game. Spider-Man is it’s own entity so Microsoft never getting their hands on that so I can’t say am to botherd really

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Good, we don't need pre-established IP to make a good game. I rather an avowed or starfield than a pre-established marvel IP slapped on existing game formulas. Plus the games usually exist in a genre that isn't my favorite. But playing as x superhero in general just doesn't appeal to the kind of gamer I am.

 

[01011001]

Iron man VR is awesome though.

VR makes a lot of things better than they are without VR sure, but even there it's not that amazing of a game all in all

 

[ShirAhava]

Good. They dodged a bullet

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Guardians were fucking great, so that's a loss, but if they would publish the other game, well that would probably make the brand look worse than no game.

Not really a loss, it came out on the system, good and they didnt have to pay for it. Plus it sold poorly. The only reason to have a marvel ip exclusive is to bring over new customers...which guardians based on poor outreach would not have done. I think its a win for everyone how it worked out. Sony gets to be the big IP company, xbox gets to rebuild while basically owning the wrpg genre which those games dont really fit in.

 

[Kokoloko85]

I'm glad. Disney Marvel is garbage.

Its not really Disney’s Spider-man. Nothing to do with the movies

 

[azertydu91]

VR makes a lot of things better than they are without VR sure, but even there it's not that amazing of a game all in all

I disagree.

 

[Hendrick's]

Its not really Disney’s Spider-man. Nothing to do with the movies

Disney 100% approves these games and their content.

 

[legacy24]

So are we blaming Don Mattrick on that one?

 

[phil_t98]

so spiderman is awesome but made by a Sony studio. what other marvel games are Stella games?

 

[Urban]

The salt in this thread is already very strong.
Keep it coming boys

Good, for selfish reasons, no interest in marvel super heroes.

I'm glad. Disney Marvel is garbage.

This.

I respect it.

 

[Clear]

Good. They dodged a bullet

This is Xbox first party in 2014! They didn't dodge anything!

 

[kingfey]

I personally love marvel films but I think the bubble has burst since end game. Spider-Man is it’s own entity so Microsoft never getting their hands on that so I can’t say am to botherd really

They killed avengers, and their big names.

Post marvel is kinda shit with no iron man and captain America.
Its like killing batman and superman from DC.

 

[jroc74]

Funny seeing some of the replies.

Pretty sure the replies would be the opposite if it was an Xbox exclusive with the game sales it has right now.

No need to down play.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Disney 100% approves these games and their content.

They done a great job then but I dont think they are making all the decisions for Insomniac, they probably just sign it off.

Altogether, for the amount of super hero movies released and tv shows, Disney has done a better job than anyone. They have yet to have a Batman & Robin, Justice league, Fantastic Four or Spiderman 3

 

[Dick Jones]

I went back and checked. Insomniac were making an Xbox exclusive (Sunset Overdrive) that came out months after they said no to Marvel. It could easily have been an Xbox game with the same studio. Wow.