Astray
Member
Shhhhhh don't tell him he's gonna get madder.
MARVEL Tōkon: Fighting Souls is available for wishlist on Steam and PSN
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
Don't be fooled by the Bitter Critters acting oblivious to the fact this is a PlayStation game they just want to continue with their " This is the worst PlayStation Generation" masquerade because they can't claim that Battle Arena Toshinden or PlayStation All Stars were better fighting games & they can't pull out Marvel vs. Capcom 2 because they claim it's about PlayStation's output .
It was the 1st thing that I pointed out in my thread & I know they all showed up so why try to pretend that they don't know it's a PlayStation game now?
Lucifers Beard
Member
Day one for me on PS5 Pro. That was the game that stole the show for me and I'm not even a massive fighting game fan.
baphomet
Member
A first party game is a game made by a first party studio.
Even if Sony were paying 100% of the dev costs, this would still not be a first party game.
Mr Moose
Member
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RedC
Member
Icymanipulator
Member
Already put it on my wishlist : )
yurinka
Member
Yes, like all the other Sony GaaS going forward.
You're the one who doesn't understand what a first party game is.
First party game means it's a game published by the platform holder. Who owns the IP or the lead dev studio doesn't matter in the distinction between 1st and 3rd party games.
Marvel Tokon will be a PS first party game because will be published by Sony in PS, even if they don't own the IP. Same as happens with Marvel's Spider-Man, MLB, Stellar Blade or (after they sold the IP to Kojipro) Death Stranding.
Same goes with first party games with a lead dev studio not owned by the platform holder like Helldivers 2, Marvel's Spider-Man (before Insomniac's acquisitions) etc. These games, in addition to 1st party are sometimes also known as 2nd party.
3rd party games are the games not published by the platform holder of that platform.
So for the case of Marvel Tokon, it's a second party (so first party too) PS game. And its PC version a 3rd party (because isn't published there by Valve) Steam game.
Yes, when talking about gaming platforms:
- The difference between a 1st and 3rd party studio is if the studio is owned by the platform holder or not.
- The difference between a 1st and 3rd party IP is if the platfom holder owns the IP or don't.
- The difference between a 1st and 3rd party game is if the game is published by the platform holder or not.
- 1st party games that have a 3rd party studio as lead dev team are often also known as 2nd party games, specially when it's a 3rd party IP or when the publisher isn't the only one who funded the game.
- 3rd party studios who work in 2nd party games are sometimes also refered as 2nd party studios (case of Shift Up calling themselves the "first Korean PS second party studio" because they signed the "first Korean 2nd party PS game".
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baphomet
Member
Literally neither of those as are the definition of a first party game.
Never have been. Never will be.
A game made by a independent dev and funded by the console maker is second party.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Have they said if this will have a campaign / robust single player arcade mode or is it just an online gaas title?
Mr Moose
Member
Absolutely is. You're confusing first party game with first party studio. There's no such thing as second party game.
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baphomet
Member
No, I'm not.
Mr Moose
Member
bender
What time is it?
baphomet
Member
Yoshida continued: "We call second-party when an independent company created the game and funded it or joint funded it, so the IP is still owned by that company. A recent example is Rise of the Ronin by Koei Tecmo. PlayStation published that game so we call it second-party."
nial
Member
Stellar Blade showed us that IP ownership doesn't have much to do with specific game ownership. A lot of people thought that Shift Up would self-publish the PC port, but it was still released by Sony.
Worth mentioning that the Xbox version of Death Stranding also had the SIE Presents splash screen.
Yes, they did.
Mr Moose
Member
diffusionx
Gold Member
I am sure this is exactly what Sony wants, to release games that don't even identify with their core brand.
What a disaster.
baphomet
Member
The literal ex President of Sony Worldwide Studios says otherwise. I think he knows better than whatever lackey is running the Insomniac Twitter.
Mr Moose
Member
And Phil Spencer.
manfestival
Member
Yeah I am gonna be day one getting this game. Love ARC sys but I do hate what they did with DNF duel. That game was so good. They let it die and decided to follow through with supporting it(dropping dlc/content) like a year later when the game probably had an active population of 150 people across platforms lol.
nial
Member
A differentiator from different types of, you know, first-party games, from a guy that was already outside of WWS management for 4.5 years when Rise of the Ronin was released.
Sony only reports first-party and third-party revenue, the former which would include the supposed ""second-party"" games as Sony gets all the revenue from each purchase of those (not counting retail cuts, ofc):
While the list of, by their own words, 'cumulative sell-through units of selected first party software titles' literally starts with Bloodborne:
Not to mention the fact that they repeatedly called Death Stranding 2 a 'first-party' game in their IR reports/slides:
yurinka
Member
Being GaaS refers to the business model of having an ongoing post-launch support (as long as makes financial sense and fits the company plans), often with updates tweaking or fixing the game and adding new features or content. Which often implies having microtransactions, DLCs, passes or a subscription.
Most GaaS focus on MP, but many of them have meaty SP content or are directly SP only.
All the main fighting games of this and the previous generation have been GaaS. So obviously this one too, since Sony wanted to expand their first party catalog to more genres, particularly MP and GaaS ones they didn't properly covered with first party.
Regarding this specific game, they didn't mention anything about game modes. Some other fighting games like Street Fighter 6, Mortal Kombat or Tekken have a meaty amount of SP content since launch. Other games like SFV started with a very limited barebones SP offerings but over time they kept adding cool stuff and ended having a huge amount. Other fighting games instead have a very limited amount of SP content.
When Sony makes a distinction between 1st and 3rd party games, the 2nd party games are included inside the 1st party group because 2nd party games are a subset of the 1st party games (all 2nd party games are also 1st party games, but not all 1st party games are 2nd party).A differentiator from different types of, you know, first-party games, from a guy that was already outside of WWS management for 4.5 years when Rise of the Ronin was released.
Sony only reports first-party and third-party revenue, the former which would include the supposed ""second-party"" games as Sony gets all the revenue from each purchase of those (not counting retail cuts, ofc):
While the list of, by their own words, 'cumulative sell-through units of selected first party software titles' literally starts with Bloodborne:
Not to mention the fact that they repeatedly called Death Stranding 2 a 'first-party' game in their IR reports/slides:
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Thabass
Member
A little bit of research will do you wonders.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Thx man. This game looks incredible im all in on it. I'd love a decent arcade mode as well as some fun online games and adding new marvel characters over time sounds perfect!
As a fighting fan of moons ago this looks like it could be amazing.
I do need to get back into sf vi and tekken 8 actually.
nial
Member
I think that's a good thing, actually. The last anime fighter published by Sony was in September 2010 (Bleach: Heat the Soul 7), so it's good that they're trying to diversify their current output. If they only released games that identified with their core brand, we would be stuck with AAAA action-adventure titles and Astro Bot.
bender
What time is it?
Arc System fighting games are way too complex for my circuitry and I'm closer to a Marvel hater than I am a fan, but I'll be there day one. The character designs are some of the best I've ever seen.
Astray
Member
Zacfoldor
Member
Correct. Honestly, this is the definition I've used since fucking Nintendo 1 and I'm not about to change it now, no matter what Insomniac goes by.
In this racket, 1st party games are games that were primarily developed by first party studios. When I search AI it says this,
"In video games, a first-party game is a game developed by a studio that is owned and operated by a console manufacturer. For example, Sony's Santa Monica Studios and Nintendo EAD are first-party studios. First-party developers create games exclusively for the platform that their parent company owns."
So yeah, that's what it means. Sony and Insomniac do not own this industry nor can they change the vocabulary. 1st party means games developed by 1st party studios. 2nd party doesn't exist = horseshite imho.
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Honestly, this is the definition I've used since fucking Nintendo 1 and I'm not about to change it now, no matter what Insomniac goes by.
In this racket, 1st party games are games that were primarily developed by first party studios. When I search AI it says this,
"In video games, a first-party game is a game developed by a studio that is owned and operated by a console manufacturer. For example, Sony's Santa Monica Studios and Nintendo EAD are first-party studios. First-party developers create games exclusively for the platform that their parent company owns."
So yeah, that's what it means. Sony and Insomniac do not own this industry nor can they change the vocabulary. 1st party means games developed by 1st party studios.
Do you feel that Donkey Kong Country was a Nintendo game?
nial
Member
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
They will accomplish what they want, which is to make money
RedC
Member
You mean a AAA single player game.
Little Mac
Member
baphomet
Member
Well Nintendo own the Donkey Kong IP, so that is first party.
How about, do you consider Goldeneye, Banjo-Kazooie, or Killer Instinct to be first party Nintendo games?
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yurinka
Member
Yes. It looks really promising.
I'm a fighting games fan since the late '80s and hope they also include a good enough SP content. As reference, I cleared the Street Fighter 6 arcade mode 3 times with each character to unlock all the related illustrations and spent over 135 hours in its World Tour mode. So I'd love to see Marvel Tokon featuring a huge amount of SP content.
There are several things that make me think it will have a budget bigger than the typical one seen in fighting games due to several reasons:
- Sony wants to enter new genres & subgenres normally not covered by 1st party, particularly MP ones. So will want to make sure this one is very successful
- Sony wants to expand their first party GaaS offerings having titles covering several GaaS types, in this case fighting, in both PS and PC. So will want to make sure this one is very successful
- Sony is used to spend AAA budgets, normally way higher than the one of the typical fighting game
- Sony will want to prove Marvel they're a great partner with other IPs and genres, and can produce other big hits other than with the open world action adventure of Spider-Man
- Sony will want to prove Marvel they're a more successful partner in fighting games than Capcom
- Sony seems to be all in with this game, because they even bought EVO apparently shortly after signing the game, and also are making an arcade stick for it
- We saw in leaked documents (part of the Insomniac hack) that several years ago Sony was carefully tracking the data of the fighting games as (the only) special group of interest within the PS GaaS titles, pretty likely to learn which ones worked better and worse in each metric and why.
What this CM said doesn't contradict what Shuhei Yoshida (or Shift Up, Hermen, Sony or basically everybody in the industry) said: first party games are those published by the platform holder. Including those using an IP or a lead dev team studio they don't own.
Sometimes the first party games (so published by the platform holder) who have a 3rd party studio (so not owned by the platform holder) are also called 2nd party games, particularly in the specific cases where the platform holder doesn't own the IP/isn't the only one who funded it.
First and third party are more commonly used terms specially in formal/legal/fiscal reports etc. To use 2nd party is less frequent specially in formal/legal/fiscal reports, but still present there, as seen in the Shift Up ones related to their IPO or fiscal reports for investors or regulators.
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This situation is closer to Donkey Kong ,
Rare didn't just pop up & decided to make a Donkey Kong game that's the same situation here this game is Sony's I.P the characters are Marvel.
Sony is the one who decided to make this game .
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
You make some great points there, when you think about it! And youre right about EVO and it just clicked again. Sony want to clearly support the fighting community and have a game that can be included and drive excitement for the tournament.
Im getting even more hyped now!
Did you enjoy the arcade mode on SF VI? I must dedicate some time to that game. I bought it day one and haven't played for more than 3 hours
im dissappijted in myself.
baphomet
Member
Literally NONE of this is Sony's IP.
nial
Member
Do you think Dragon Quest III HD-2D Remake is not a Square Enix game?
diffusionx
Gold Member
if Sony's leaders are as stupid and shortsighted as this, then they are doomed in this space.
baphomet
Member
They've always had exclusive publishing rights to the series. They don't own the Dragons Quest IP, nor the monsters nor music in it
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
only two?Not to mention the fact that they repeatedly called Death Stranding 2 a 'first-party' game in their IR reports/slides:
Who does 'marvel tokon: fighting souls' belong to?
That's a brand new I.P
So you don't see PlayStation Studios?
nial
Member
I know, do you consider DQ3HD a Square Enix game?
'Major first-party titles'
So it's not a Square Enix game?