Xbox plans to exit gaming business if "off-console" Game Pass subscribers don't increase enough by 2027

I really do think that if Microsoft stuck to what they were best at, they would've been in a much better place today. I don't know about you all, but Xbox and Xbox 360 left an amazing impression. They were sooooo ahead with Xbox Live Gold, first person shooters on consoles, controllers, etc. They got the right exclusives made, focused on a certain gaming market that would've stayed loyal (many still are). They should've continued to iterate on these things, Xbox Live should be by far and ahead the best online ecosystem yet it's similar to PSN. The absolute critical error really was the shift of focus on Kinect, the greed to capture the Nintendo Wii level casuals. They focused resources on getting those dumb kinect games made. Xbox and Xbox 360 were the best consoles for graphics too and they lost that title with the One and even Series X. They really botched it hard.

Gamepass...I mean I really do appreciate the $1 deal for it, gaming has never been cheaper because of this. But Series X doesn't have the best graphics so I wouldn't ever play on it, would rather play on PC. And I'm just playing because it's too good of a deal and cheap, not because Microsoft is actually doing something unique and better. Everyone likes freebies.
 
Gamer79 said:
I would love for them to explain this to the shareholders.

We payed out nearly $10billion dollars to buy out some gaming companies but after a few years it did not work out so we are done with the experiment?
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Shareholders only care about profit.
If it's losing money, even if it had cost the business trillions of dollars they'd vote to get rid of it.
 
It makes me hesitant to keep buying games on Xbox. It probably won't happen but what if? I don't want all my games that I've purchased to one day only be accessible on some legacy 'cloud' service which will eventually be discontinued.
 
With all their accusations they have 8x(?) their first party studio count. Does that really seem like a company that is going to get out of the gaming business?
 
onQ123 said:
Buying Activision actually make it easier for them to dump the Xbox Consoles because they would be able to make money without a hardware base.
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Exactly. They will literally become more of a third-party publisher after Activision. Their cloud rights will rest with Ubisoft; they will publish games on PlayStation; they will publish games on Nintendo; they have already been publishing on PC; a large portion of their gaming revenue will start coming from Mobile.
 
Justin9mm said:
Well I'm not arguing that. In many ways you are right. But Valve and Nintendo don't have competing current gen consoles or hold monopoly on AAA games on console. I doubt either one would be stepping into that realm if Xbox left.
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It all depends on if Nintendo will get proper 3rd party support.

If they do, they'd be similar to a budget-console like Series S, except it wouldn't be shit.
And they already have a great games library if you like their 1st party output, along with innovations.

Nintendo can easily compete with Playstation, except maybe with big budget AAA-gaming as we know it.

That would be more a PC vs Playstation thing.
 
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Heisenberg007 said:
Exactly. They will literally become more of a third-party publisher after Activision. Their cloud rights will rest with Ubisoft; they will publish games on PlayStation; they will publish games on Nintendo; they have already been publishing on PC; a large portion of their gaming revenue will start coming from Mobile.
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That's why I believe Spencer was put in place to oversee the transition from console-giant to 3rd party publisher.

Xbox as a console-brand is done for.
 
Killjoy-NL said:
It all depends on if Nintendo will get proper 3rd party support.

If they do, they'd be similar to a budget-console like Series S, except it wouldn't be shit.
And they already have a great games library if you like their 1st party output, along with innovations.

Nintendo can easily compete with Playstation, except maybe with big budget AAA-gaming as we know it.

That would be more a PC vs Playstation thing.
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On paper Nintendo maybe could, but in my 30+ years of gaming experience that's not Nintendo imo. Psychologically, I don't see Nintendo wanting to compete in that space. That's just not them.

PC vs PlayStation? One is a console and one is a PC. It's not the same targeted consumer market.

Your reasoning is all what is possible. But it doesn't sound like you have been around gaming long enough to understand how these companies actually think.

All I can say is wait and see.
 
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Justin9mm said:
On paper Nintendo maybe could, but in my 30+ years of gaming experience that's not Nintendo imo. Psychologically, I don't see Nintendo wanting to compete in that space. That's just not them.

PC vs PlayStation? One is a console and one is a PC. It's not the same targeted consumer market.
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No, but if Xbox would leave, a lot will change within the industry.
Xbox fanbase will likely split between PC and Playstation.
There will also be overlap on all 3 platforms (PC, Nintendo, Playstation).
Competition will also mostly shift towards developers/games.

It'll be a whole different landscape. Probably for the better, if you ask me.

And let's not forget that there was a time when there was heavy competition between Nintendo and Sega. It's not like Nintendo would ne new to that.
It's just that they took a different approach when Playstation and MS started going head-to-head.
 
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Of course. I said before MS wants Xbox Game Pass to be a service like all other MS products. It's just their DNA.
 
Those business plans are called "moonshot". Start with an almost unreachable vision, and if you only reach have of it, it is already an success.
The Google-strategy. Well it is not so nice to work with this strategy as you always don't reach your goals which might hit your motivation after some time. But at the start you plan big.
 
Ozriel said:
Well, it's hard to argue they're going to be 'toast' post the ABK acquisition and the projected significant increase in revenue and profits.

They've since revised their key success criteria anyway. I'm not sure where you're getting your 'Activision and Gamepass' theory from.
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I got it from Phil's own words. I'm assuming what he said in court was the truth. I'm not assuming he lied just to make the ABK deal happen.
 
Allandor said:
Those business plans are called "moonshot". Start with an almost unreachable vision, and if you only reach have of it, it is already an success.
The Google-strategy. Well it is not so nice to work with this strategy as you always don't reach your goals which might hit your motivation after some time. But at the start you plan big.
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That's NOT what Phil said to the lawyer in court though. He said they want to hit the 100 million GamePass number by the end of FY27. Which is June 2028, right guys?
 
Zuzu said:
It makes me hesitant to keep buying games on Xbox. It probably won't happen but what if? I don't want all my games that I've purchased to one day only be accessible on some legacy 'cloud' service which will eventually be discontinued.
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As someone heavily invested in the Xbox ecosystem but thinks Game Pass is an absolute cancer, this really does make me step back and reconsider future purchases on Xbox. Forza Motorsport being always online is another head scratcher. Other than their dwindling number of sycophants, who the fuck is their audience? Some pie in the sky billions of gamers in India playing on their android phones? Yeah, good luck with that lol.
 
Kacho said:
As someone heavily invested in the Xbox ecosystem but thinks Game Pass is an absolute cancer, this really does make me step back and reconsider future purchases on Xbox. Forza Motorsport being always online is another head scratcher. Other than their dwindling number of sycophants, who the fuck is their audience? Some pie in the sky billions of gamers in India playing on their android phones? Yeah, good luck with that lol.
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It was supposed to be people streaming x cloud on phones. Years ago, I thought that would work but now not so much.

For years, analysts have been counting console/pc gamers and mobile games as a block. That has led to all kinds of shitty analysis. Mobile gamers are not playing in the same way. They are just standing in line and can't go a minute without fidgeting with their phone.
 
I just don't see Microsoft exit the console hardware market anytime soon. With no Xbox hardware available I just can't see Xbox third party and gamepass succeeding as much as they want it to.
Personally I'd love my next console be a PS6 with all of Microsoft Xbox third party games being delivered but I just don't see it happening.
 
100,000,000 subscribers @ $11 to $17 a month is $1.1 to $1.7 billion dollars a month. He wants to make $13 billion to $20 billion a year on subs alone.
 
Heisenberg007 said:
Exactly. They will literally become more of a third-party publisher after Activision. Their cloud rights will rest with Ubisoft; they will publish games on PlayStation; they will publish games on Nintendo; they have already been publishing on PC; a large portion of their gaming revenue will start coming from Mobile.
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If they can make like a bajillion kabillion times more money from becoming a 3rd party publisher (no more losses on xbox) Nadella will shitcan the consoles i bet.
 
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I think a thing that keeps xbox from getting axes is that it's their only consumer product anyone gives a shit about. Last alone has fans. Funny enough, that used to be done better by the games in the back of their software catalog.

They would like to have lifestyle brand hardware but it doesn't happen. They can't do it with the console. Especially after they've fashioned it into a budget brand.

They could stop the console adventure but I don't think that would make them any less intent on removing competitors. They would still not publish for ps. They'd still be looking for a way to buy or undermine steam. They'd still be a disease.
 
Crayon said:
I think a thing that keeps xbox from getting axes is that it's their only consumer product anyone gives a shit about. Last alone has fans. Funny enough, that used to be done better by the games in the back of their software catalog.

They would like to have lifestyle brand hardware but it doesn't happen. They can't do it with the console. Especially after they've fashioned it into a budget brand.

They could stop the console adventure but I don't think that would make them any less intent on removing competitors. They would still not publish for ps. They'd still be looking for a way to buy or undermine steam. They'd still be a disease.
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Latest leaked numbers indicate only 3 million subs on PC from 25+ million total. So axing Xbox right now would also mean abandoning Gamepass, they still have faith in the sub model.
 
dotnotbot said:
Latest leaked numbers indicate only 3 million subs on PC from 25+ million total. So axing Xbox right now would also mean abandoning Gamepass, they still have faith in the sub model.
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Only 3 mil on PC?!!! Yeah that definitely adjusts the equation a little bit. Holy crap. The streaming on cell phones is just not going to work out, so PC was the other way. The number of subs on console could end up up or down from there a couple years from now. A significant number of those subs are still on Xbox One, and when those people go to upgrade, they don't necessarily have to pick Xbox again.
 
Forth said:
I just don't see Microsoft exit the console hardware market anytime soon. With no Xbox hardware available I just can't see Xbox third party and gamepass succeeding as much as they want it to.
Personally I'd love my next console be a PS6 with all of Microsoft Xbox third party games being delivered but I just don't see it happening.
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Their next console was leaked to be an always online device in terms of both games and hardware, if they don't exit, and go through with that, then it still sounds like they have a foot out the door.
 
I think it's clear the whole point of gamepass and the activitsion purchase is a way for MS to slowly exit the hardware game.
They've repeated many times that they don't really care about hardware sales.
They just care about subscribers.

Their endgame isn't to beat PS and Nintendo.

Their ideal endgame is to put gamepass on PS and Nintendo.
 
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Raonak said:
I think it's clear the whole point of gamepass and the activitsion purchase is a way for MS to slowly exit the hardware game.
They've repeated many times that they don't really care about hardware sales.
They just care about subscribers.

Their endgame isn't to beat PS and Nintendo.

Their ideal endgame is to put gamepass on PS and Nintendo.
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We actually have proof to validate this theory now; Phil Spencer's leaked emails literally talked about this.

PlayStation and Nintendo, however, aren't having any of it, and rightly so.
 
I could see MS making some kind of deal with Sony if this were to happen. "We will completely exit consoles if you allow gamepass on Playstation"
 
Badlucktroll said:
I could see MS making some kind of deal with Sony if this were to happen. "We will completely exit consoles if you allow gamepass on Playstation"
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I think this is ultimately the idea.

If anything, Starfield would've been more successful.
Just look at the sales split for FC24 and MK1.
 
Looking at the widening market share in the most important territories for Xbox, NA and Europe, I wonder if internally they're in panic mode right now or chill about their tactics so far this gen.
 
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Go_Ly_Dow said:
Looking at the widening market share in the most important territories for Xbox, NA and Europe, I wonder if internally they're in panic mode right now or chill about their tactics so far this gen.
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They completed the largest acquisition in gaming history like a month ago. I'm sure they're pretty confident in what they have coming.
 
64bitmodels said:
The great thing about acquisitions is that even when you have no console, the acquired companies can still publish games.
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James Sawyer Ford said:
Becoming the largest third party?
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I mean already they're more of an ecosystem holder than anything nowadays. Hardware is just a part of their offering, not a central requirement like with Nintendo or Sony.


I don't really care what they do with their hardware moving forward. Just keep the Game pass coming and I'm happy.
 
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I don't know how they don't go 3rd party+GP at this point. The consoles are not selling well. They've said they can't make high quality/polished games like Sony. They talk about getting constant releases to feed gamepass. They need these acquisitions to have a ROI. I also don't think the time table changed. At first I was thinking the ABK deal took awhile, I'm sure this date has been pushed a few years, but if you think the next generation of hardware is coming in 2028, then you probably announce your plans in 2027 . . .
 
analog_future said:
They completed the largest acquisition in gaming history like a month ago. I'm sure they're pretty confident in what they have coming.
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Not necessarily.

Just look at Starfield. They bought Bethesda to make it exclusive, lost (by their own words) 10 millions of expected PS5 sales and that game has already left all the charts after a month.

Yes they'll make a lot of revenue from all the acquisitions (yet out of the big 3 they're the only ones NOT sharing profits, which is what actually matters), but they're not going to keep on throwing money away with hardware that's not selling.
 
Missed this thread before but isn't he saying that if they hit 100 million gamepass subscribers mainly on the back of selling xbox's this would be considered failure. Ie not that hitting 100 million GP subscribers is the failure but that having to sell xboxs to do it is the bad part of the equation. They don't want to keep selling boxes as the main way of driving the business, they want to be a service company but without paying a 30% fee if they can get away with it.
 
If true then in 2027 Xbox owners would lose all games they bought digitally as well.

...hurray for our Digital Future.
 
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Banjo64 said:
No growth in a 9 month period. Wild projections. Should be an interesting couple of years ahead.
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And how many billions wasted on Bethesda's incompetent ass. They're not the studio they once were. ES6 cannot be Skyrim with better graphics.

Todd Howard still has his head so far up his ass. At least they're no longer using that garbage engine.
 
iHaunter said:
And how many billions wasted on Bethesda's incompetent ass. They're not the studio they once were. ES6 cannot be Skyrim with better graphics.

Todd Howard still has his head so far up his ass. At least they're no longer using that garbage engine.
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What do you mean they're no longer using that engine? As always it's the same one as before with improvements, and it will be the same in TES6.
 
Soodanim said:
What do you mean they're no longer using that engine? As always it's the same one as before with improvements, and it will be the same in TES6.
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I could've sworn I read somewhere that they won't be using the creation engine anymore. Could be mistaken though. I really hope they do...
 
iHaunter said:
I could've sworn I read somewhere that they won't be using the creation engine anymore. Could be mistaken though. I really hope they do...
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It's definitely the CE2 in Starfield, and I'll be very surprised if they don't keep it for TES6. The things that (previously?) buggy engine offers are things other engines aren't doing. Object permanence being the most known one.

I don't have a source for that though, just confidence.
 
Go_Ly_Dow said:
Looking at the widening market share in the most important territories for Xbox, NA and Europe, I wonder if internally they're in panic mode right now or chill about their tactics so far this gen.
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Bro....lol

Do you guys not understand that their about to be in second place in revenue, just behind Tencent and above Sony next quarter? Microsoft and ABK together is basically all the financing they'll ever need. Xbox - even the console isn't going anywhere. Not 5o mention you guys are taking Phil's words out of context......again. Good Lord't!
 
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