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XCOM: Enemy Unknown |OT| Neo GAF is Under Alien Control

Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Spoony's review of XCOM.

http://spoonyexperiment.com/2012/10/16/xcom-enemy-unknown/

He makes some points that I agree on somewhat, but overall, I think he doth protest too much. But then again, that is his schtick, so I'll give him that.

There are reasons that the devs give in their interviews that go over why they made the various design decisions they did, and for the most part, I agree with them and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Most of the footage Spoony used in the game are from early game, and I get the feeling that he hadn't beaten the game yet when he made the review. If he had, his opinion might soften a little.

Then again, a lot of the issues I do have with the game are issues that I only realized once I had done multiple playthroughs. Things regarding the strategy layer. Spoony doesn't really delve into that, though.
 
T

TemplaerDude

Member
I get why he's complaining about he lack of customization, I really do.

But it's not that bad.

Also, uh, yeah, he clearly hasn't finished the game.
 
W

witchedwiz

Member
hopefully thanks to a kind gaffer selling this one cheap to me i might be joining you refined folks tomorrow!
ironman classic, here i fucking come!
 
F

fanboi

Banned
Rentahamster said:
Spoony's review of XCOM.

http://spoonyexperiment.com/2012/10/16/xcom-enemy-unknown/

He makes some points that I agree on somewhat, but overall, I think he doth protest too much. But then again, that is his schtick, so I'll give him that.

There are reasons that the devs give in their interviews that go over why they made the various design decisions they did, and for the most part, I agree with them and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Most of the footage Spoony used in the game are from early game, and I get the feeling that he hadn't beaten the game yet when he made the review. If he had, his opinion might soften a little.

Then again, a lot of the issues I do have with the game are issues that I only realized once I had done multiple playthroughs. Things regarding the strategy layer. Spoony doesn't really delve into that, though.
Click to expand...

Almost disagree with everything he complained about.

base defence... would have been awesome... that I agree on.
 
D

Darkone

Member
By the time i will finish the game i don`t think i will have any hair left on my head because of this game.
the missing shots is driving me nuts, 60%+ to hit and they miss.

Damm work, can`t wait to get home and play!!!!
 
B

betty swollocks

Banned
Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! Missed! 82%? Missed!

34%?

Hit!

Wooooooooooooooooooo!
 
P

patapuf

Member
i must be very lucky playing this game because so far, the precenteges the game told me have been accurate.

Haven't missed a huge amount of high percentage shots and overwatch works like 40-50% of the time.

Then again, i had an average of like 68% percent hit chance on my last playthrough. I prefer to hunker down/move/overwatch on anything below 45% hit chance. (unless i'm desperate) and my main damage dealers are assault shotguns and snipers.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
KO Traveling Hobo said:
And even then it wasn't early enough for the poison immunity to mean anything. Ghost armor beats AAA for snipers as well, imo. Four guaranteed crits is massive, and I'm pretty sure the grappling hook can reach further than the jets.
Click to expand...
The whole guaranteed crits thing should never have existed, take that away and ghost armor is still probably the best in the. game, but it wouldn't be so unbalanced. Even being able to ghost more than twice a map is too much.
 
C

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
God I love spotting people with the battlescanner and have my archangel sniper drop them from a far before the aliens even do their scatter move.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Don't play on ironman. Instead, save often and learn from your mistakes. You'll make a lot of them, but as long as you save well you shouldn't be frustrated by them.
 
M

McNum

Member
You know, let's talk mechanics for a moment. I've had a thought brewing in the back of my head about it for a few days, and now that I've completed the game once, I have come to a sort of idea.

Combat is all about the Hit/Defense roll. Which is basically the same thing. The math runs on uncapped percentage points, which are simply added and subtracted. So a +10% boost to a 50% hit chance is 60%, and not 55%. If you can manipulate the Hit% of both your troops and the enemy, you're in pretty good shape. Cover is the easy way, low is +20 and high is +40 defense. Which explains why flanking is so useful. Add to that a Smoke Grenade (with the Dense Smoke perk) and/or a Telekinetic Field for another 40% each as well as suppressing the opponent for -30% hit and you can, in full cover, covered by a Smoke Grenade and inside a Telekinetic Field be at 150% Defense. Even more fun, if you step out of cover, you're still at 110% Defense.

Basically, the enemy has to have a base accuracy of over 100% to hit you when you really get defensive. Of course, enemy grenades and psionic attacks are still an issue, (use Psi Inspiration for a Will Boost), and, well, you'll just have to eat the grenade if it comes to that. Basically, this idea is what to do when you trigger way too many enemies or a really nasty one lategame.

Of course, this is only the defensive half, I haven't quite found out how to cheese the Hit part so I can hit aliens with ease. I wonder how big a Hit bonus you can get. Holotargeting is +10% and so is the S.C.O.P.E., but I wonder if you can get higher than +20% bonus. That seems a little weak compared to the defensive cheese.

I wonder, though, does Suppression from different soldiers stack on the same target? Do smoke grenades stack? Just seeing if I can find a way to hit 60-ish% early in the game.
 
S

sTeLioSco

Banned
Aaron said:
Don't play on ironman. Instead, save often and learn from your mistakes. You'll make a lot of them, but as long as you save well you shouldn't be frustrated by them.
Click to expand...

follow this advice if you are completely new to xcom.also at every mission have a save from the beginning.

lets just say that guys that try xcom for the first time playing in classic ironman,wont be the first in line to get the next next game........
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
McNum said:
You know, let's talk mechanics for a moment. I've had a thought brewing in the back of my head about it for a few days, and now that I've completed the game once, I have come to a sort of idea.

Combat is all about the Hit/Defense roll. Which is basically the same thing. The math runs on uncapped percentage points, which are simply added and subtracted. So a +10% boost to a 50% hit chance is 60%, and not 55%. If you can manipulate the Hit% of both your troops and the enemy, you're in pretty good shape. Cover is the easy way, low is +20 and high is +40 defense. Which explains why flanking is so useful. Add to that a Smoke Grenade (with the Dense Smoke perk) and/or a Telekinetic Field for another 40% each as well as suppressing the opponent for -30% hit and you can, in full cover, covered by a Smoke Grenade and inside a Telekinetic Field be at 150% Defense. Even more fun, if you step out of cover, you're still at 110% Defense.

Basically, the enemy has to have a base accuracy of over 100% to hit you when you really get defensive. Of course, enemy grenades and psionic attacks are still an issue, (use Psi Inspiration for a Will Boost), and, well, you'll just have to eat the grenade if it comes to that. Basically, this idea is what to do when you trigger way too many enemies or a really nasty one lategame.

Of course, this is only the defensive half, I haven't quite found out how to cheese the Hit part so I can hit aliens with ease. I wonder how big a Hit bonus you can get. Holotargeting is +10% and so is the S.C.O.P.E., but I wonder if you can get higher than +20% bonus. That seems a little weak compared to the defensive cheese.

I wonder, though, does Suppression from different soldiers stack on the same target? Do smoke grenades stack? Just seeing if I can find a way to hit 60-ish% early in the game.
Click to expand...
The light plasma rifle gives +10. Having the high ground provides a bonus as well, with even more for snipers with Damn Good Ground.
 
M

McNum

Member
Jintor said:
What's better, 4 engies or $200. I'm flat fucking broke.

I tend towards the engies but they don't reduce build time :T
Click to expand...
If you have less than 20 Engineers, you want those, but if you need cash to make something nice, like guns, satellites, or armor, get that. It's hard to tell, really. It depends on the situation.
 
D

demidar

Member
McNum said:
You know, let's talk mechanics for a moment. I've had a thought brewing in the back of my head about it for a few days, and now that I've completed the game once, I have come to a sort of idea.

Combat is all about the Hit/Defense roll. Which is basically the same thing. The math runs on uncapped percentage points, which are simply added and subtracted. So a +10% boost to a 50% hit chance is 60%, and not 55%. If you can manipulate the Hit% of both your troops and the enemy, you're in pretty good shape. Cover is the easy way, low is +20 and high is +40 defense. Which explains why flanking is so useful. Add to that a Smoke Grenade (with the Dense Smoke perk) and/or a Telekinetic Field for another 40% each as well as suppressing the opponent for -30% hit and you can, in full cover, covered by a Smoke Grenade and inside a Telekinetic Field be at 150% Defense. Even more fun, if you step out of cover, you're still at 110% Defense.

Basically, the enemy has to have a base accuracy of over 100% to hit you when you really get defensive. Of course, enemy grenades and psionic attacks are still an issue, (use Psi Inspiration for a Will Boost), and, well, you'll just have to eat the grenade if it comes to that. Basically, this idea is what to do when you trigger way too many enemies or a really nasty one lategame.

Of course, this is only the defensive half, I haven't quite found out how to cheese the Hit part so I can hit aliens with ease. I wonder how big a Hit bonus you can get. Holotargeting is +10% and so is the S.C.O.P.E., but I wonder if you can get higher than +20% bonus. That seems a little weak compared to the defensive cheese.

I wonder, though, does Suppression from different soldiers stack on the same target? Do smoke grenades stack? Just seeing if I can find a way to hit 60-ish% early in the game.
Click to expand...

I had a sniper and she had 112 aim. I don't know how she got that, but that's what it shows and that's before SCOPE bonus I believe. She could solo Sectopods with ease.
 
B

BillyBats

Banned
Darkone said:
Is there a way to bring back a country that is leaving the Project?
Click to expand...

That's one thing that bothered me while playing, besides the bugs. I guess those countries are using that measly 150 bucks or so a month to build their own XCom. You should be able to get them back somehow.

Beat the game, just awesome. Too many bugs though. I think I experienced every one of the bugs that have been brought up here.

I also had a dream the other night about a new game using the xcom engine but set in the 1970's in a New York police station. Instead of soldiers, you had police recruits. Instead of the underground base, you had a precinct. Instead of Earth, you had New York City and its boroughs. You could research new weapons, vehicles, tactics etc. Missions took place near famous attractions to seedy rundown hoods. Oh well.

Also, maybe I played this game and the original too much but I swear this song by New Edition uses the old xcom sound effects at the very beginning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE77mos-ppo
 
T

T.O.P

Banned
sTeLioSco said:
follow this advice if you are completely new to xcom.also at every mission have a save from the beginning.

lets just say that guys that try xcom for the first time playing in classic ironman,wont be the first in line to get the next next game........
Click to expand...

thanks, i'll try on normal without the irom man thingy for now :D
 
D

demidar

Member
BillyBats said:
That's one thing that bothered me while playing, besides the bugs. I guess those countries are using that measly 150 bucks or so a month to build their own XCom. You should be able to get them back somehow.

Beat the game, just awesome. Too many bugs though. I think I experienced every one of the bugs that have been brought up here.

I also had a dream the other night about a new game using the xcom engine but set in the 1970's in a New York police station. Instead of soldiers, you had police recruits. Instead of the underground base, you had a precinct. Instead of Earth, you had New York City and its boroughs. You could research new weapons, vehicles, tactics etc. Missions took place near famous attractions to seedy rundown hoods. Oh well.

Also, maybe I played this game and the original too much but I swear this song by New Edition uses the old xcom sound effects at the very beginning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE77mos-ppo
Click to expand...

Funding is out of whack. I can do a lot more with more funding but countries are unwilling to give me it, yet demand so much on a shoe-string budget. Yet when I make 2 plasma rifles for $300 and give it to a second-world country they give me $1800 in return, 2x more than the monthly funding I had at that time. These countries are fucking selfish and to teach them a lesson I will join the aliens and scorch the earth.
 
T

TTG

Member
Kyouji said:
This is exactly what's happened to me, and I'm taking a break from the game because of the wipe.
Click to expand...

If you make it to the very last encounter and you haven't figured out THE strategy, post in this thread... or you will lose. Took me a few reloads, until I realized what was what.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
patapuf said:
Doesn't titan armor provide more HP for less cost than ghost/archangel armor?
Click to expand...

2 hp, 3 if you are an assault with extra conditioning. That doesn't compensate for the ability to turn invisible 4 times and get a guaranteed critical hit, extra movement, increased defense, and a grapping hook.
 
D

David Incorporated Esq.

Member
michaelius said:
Does Titan armor fire resitance protect from exploding cars ?
Click to expand...

Know what? I think it could. One time I had a heavy in titan armor next to a truck that blew and he didn't take any damage. I can't tell if that's because of the heavy bonus where you get -2 damage when under cover or the armor, though.

BillyBats said:
That's one thing that bothered me while playing, besides the bugs. I guess those countries are using that measly 150 bucks or so a month to build their own XCom. You should be able to get them back somehow.
Click to expand...

In the original game they lose hope, turn traitor and cut a deal with the aliens. You can assume that's what's happening in this game as well.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
Jintor said:
What's better, 4 engies or $200. I'm flat fucking broke.

I tend towards the engies but they don't reduce build time :T
Click to expand...

If this is the Let's Play, it's still early. You don't need the Engineers just yet, and you're broke as fuck in the first few months. I would take the $200.
 
M

michaelius

Banned
Yeah in the situation screen i saw something about Chinese officials being seen with aliens in the TV news part of the screen (btw those are some really amzing headlines there )
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
Hah, took down a Warship with a dinky ass jet.
Which was armed with an EMP cannon and burned all three consumables to do it
 
T

TTG

Member
Some thoughts, now that I finished a complete playthrough:

-I don't know what you guys are on about, complaining about the final level.
It's shorter than the alien base, which is a plus. It runs the enemy gamut in the first part, which is ok. The battle against 2 sectopods is one of the most exciting ones in the game. The only other time I faced that was on a battleship, which the player has a big chance of missing, or presumably running into before the sectopods are unlocked. I also liked the last encounter. You could plow on ahead, fighting 3 ethereals and their back up, or you could take stock and remember that all the other bad guys were projections by some psi powered creature. A nice, almost puzzle element.

-Like the first point, this is also on the heels of just completing the game... I like the story! Simple enough reason, it doesn't fall into the same pitfalls a majority of games do. It doesn't try to be some drama on an Oscar scale AND funny AND emulate some incredible action movie. There's no Killzone crap here.

-Getting to the best part of the game: the design. The game layers so many elements on every scenario and the player is always directly responsible for the outcome of each one. At a broad stroke, look at each mission going in. Besides all the classes and the objectives(maybe the least impressive part of it), the player is always testing out ideas and decisions he's made going in. Early in the game, it's the arch thrower and maybe a shiv. Later it's psi powers and ultimately it's how different types of armor and promotions inter act on the battlefield. On the Geospace end of it, things are much more one note, but again, the amount of systems that are simulated and are left up to the player to manage is large. Even that stupid ship vs ship battle has some element of interaction and preparation that the player controls.

I feel like the other stuff, that's really good, has been discussed at length. Like, not being afraid to let the player fail etc. Anyway, on to the flaws:

-There's a significant disconnect between the hit and defense percentages and what's happening on screen. Obviously, both sides are shooting through walls, but there are other times when it sucks. How many times did you try to reposition a squad member into what plainly looks to be a better position, closer or otherwise, and are rewarded with the same or a lower percentage? Or, even better, that enemy can no longer be targetted. A lot of the learning curve there is familiarize yourself with how the system runs and to disregard how things look. This happens in other games, stealth games come to mind where you're paying attention to how the AI is tuned vs what it looks like onscreen.

-I wish the difficulty spikes were more than, "you accidentally walked in on 8 aliens having lunch and your turns and squad members aren't properly aligned to deal with it", or "by the time you realize you need to build this shit, it's already too late. Go ahead, wait a couple of game weeks for it to come online".

That's the short version and then there are the bugs! Still, what a great game.
 
M

Mupod

Member
Basileus777 said:
2 hp, 3 if you are an assault with extra conditioning. That doesn't compensate for the ability to turn invisible 4 times and get a guaranteed critical hit, extra movement, increased defense, and a grapping hook.
Click to expand...

Of course, but it's also something like a third of the cost and you get it much earlier. Ghost armor is what, 45 elerium?

Ghost armor really is the key to walking all over Classic though. It's crazy how you can sometimes even track patrols through the fog of war if you find them first with your ghost armor support scout or whatever. It also saved my heavy after a very awkward discovery of 2 chryssalids, a berserker and a muton at the end of my turn on my last terror mission. Shoot once with bullet swarm then cloak, so overpowered.
 
S

Sotha Sil

Member
Jintor said:
Terror missions on classic are tense as fuck
Click to expand...

I love them. Really makes you fear for your men. Classic Ironman is a blast so far, really hope I won't run into a game-ruining bug.

TTG said:
-I wish the difficulty spikes were more than, "you accidentally walked in on 8 aliens having lunch and your turns and squad members aren't properly aligned to deal with it"
Click to expand...

Good point. I'd love running into aliens that are fully prepared, and the assault troops definitely should have a sneak perk to counter this. And I hear the X-Com bases could be attacked in the original game? DLC, please!
 
D

duckroll

Member
Sometimes this game feels so random. The first time I did my first Terror mission, it was a large map in a military base with tanks and a warehouse at the far end. There were like 4 floaters, 6 chryssalids, and 3 zombies. I couldn't do it. The squad selection was wrong. So I loaded back to the command center, and I did some customization with my men, and tried the mission again with a new squad.

The map was completely different even though the operation name was the same and country was the same. This time it was a tiny urban area. I rescued one guy I see right at the start. Then while staying in about the same area I started in, my squad killed 4 floaters, 2 chryssalids, and 1 zombie. I didn't even get to explore the map. Mission Accomplished. Excellent rating. Totally wasn't expecting that.... but I'm not complaining! :p
 
R

Rufus

Member
I'm actually seeing a lot of maps for the first time on my subsequent games (I'm having terrible luck on Classic...).

garath said:
The ghost armor gives you a grappling hook?
Click to expand...
It's basically a straight upgrade of the Skeleton Suit, but with added cloak functionality.
 
B

Basileus777

Member
garath said:
The ghost armor gives you a grappling hook?
Click to expand...

Yes. I made a mistake with the health though, there's a difference in 4 between the armors.

Ghost armor gives you +2 movement (+4 if dashing), +20 defense, a grappling hook, the ability to stealth four times per mission (attacking while stealthed is an automatic critical hit), and 6 HP. And activating stealth is a free action.
 
M

Mupod

Member
garath said:
The ghost armor gives you a grappling hook?
Click to expand...

Yep. It's a direct replacement for the skeleton suit.

Anyways I have a question about the final mission:
I heard that if your 'chosen' psi soldier dies causing you to fail the mission, you actually get the option to retry. Is this true and does it happen on ironman?
Because I'd feel really stupid for training/gearing up an entire backup squad in case of FISSION MAILED if this is true, although there's no way that I'm gonna test it myself for obvious reasons.
 
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