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XCOM: Enemy Unknown |OT| Neo GAF is Under Alien Control

N

Nocebo

Member
Listening to the idlethumbs "three moves ahead" podcast is interesting. Concerning the maps the designer said that indeed maps are more directional. Meaning the aliens are generally "in front" of you. Not sure how I feel about that.
Maybe I'm being too critical. But I heard a lot of design decisions I didn't agree with. It's like the Oblivion of the XCom series to me. Enjoyable but feeling a little off.
Sorry for the negative tone in most of my posts though. Just want this to be good.
 
T

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
How many players can play in a multiplayer match? Is it just one on one? OP mentions nothing about that component.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Nocebo said:
Listening to the idlethumbs "three moves ahead" podcast is interesting. Concerning the maps the designer said that indeed maps are more directional. Meaning the aliens are generally "in front" of you. Not sure how I feel about that.
Maybe I'm being too critical. But I heard a lot of design decisions I didn't agree with. It's like the Oblivion of the XCom series to me. Enjoyable but feeling a little off.
Sorry for the negative tone in most of my posts though. Just want this to be good.
Click to expand...

He's only really right for the story missions and a few other ones (highway missions, for example). I guess if you miss that good old feeling of stepping off the skyranger and getting hit by reaction fire from every side more power to you...
 
B

Belgorim

Member
Looking forward to trying this one out.

So a question from a euro player. Will my digital pre-order from gmg not work until the 12th or is that only for retail?
 
Dakota47

Dakota47

Member
Belgorim said:
Looking forward to trying this one out.

So a question from a euro player. Will my digital pre-order from gmg not work until the 12th or is that only for retail?
Click to expand...

The game is Steamworks afaik so digital should unlock at the same time as retail.
 
G

garath

Member
Just got back from vacation and this game kinda just popped up on my radar. Watched that gameplay commentary video from 2k with the Firaxis guys and played the demo. Holy crap. I'm hooked. I think I'm going to have to pre-order even though I'm so overloaded with games.

It's just so awesome. And I want to reward publishers that still release a $50 retail PC game.
 
N

Nocebo

Member
Jintor said:
He's only really right for the story missions and a few other ones (highway missions, for example). I guess if you miss that good old feeling of stepping off the skyranger and getting hit by reaction fire from every side more power to you...
Click to expand...
No need to resort to strawmen. In the original XCom you had more of a situation on maps where you had to split up your troops and move in different directions to go after the aliens because they could be anywhere and you didn't always start in a corner of the map. Clearly one of Jake Solomon's gripes with the original game was pacing of the missions. Like you had several turns in a row where you had nothing happening and or you were scouring the map to find the last straggler or whatever. I personally feel that mostly added to the suspense of the game.

Also he said that because you were allowed to have big teams in the original you were almost forced to play with big teams (not true, I only had 8 guys at most) and subsequently wasted lots of time moving guys around thus affecting pacing negatively as well. So because you now have a smaller squad you can't afford to split up your team so much and in turn the gamedesigner shouldn't want to force the player to split up his team... the result of that design philosophy obviously has an impact on map design.
The interviewer mentioned he felt the maps were more directional and Jake Solomon agreed.

In a game like this I just don't like the idea of an invisible hand guiding things to make them more exciting if you know what I mean. I love games heavy on emergent gameplay. I'm just expressing my concerns that's all.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Nocebo said:
In a game like this I just don't like the idea of an invisible hand guiding things to make them more exciting if you know what I mean. I love games heavy on emergent gameplay. I'm just expressing my concerns that's all.
Click to expand...

I feel that it's at its worst in story missions (which are very often corridors) and at its best during just, well, general gameplay (abduction, terror missions, whatever). I mean, I can't fight your honest opinion, but bug hunts/closet busting was not my idea of suspense - as someone on the cast mentioned, closer to boredom than excitement.
 
M

Mupod

Member
Nocebo said:
Also he said that because you were allowed to have big teams in the original you were almost forced to play with big teams (not true, I only had 8 guys at most) and subsequently wasted lots of time moving guys around thus affecting pacing negatively as well. So because you now have a smaller squad you can't afford to split up your team so much and in turn the gamedesigner shouldn't want to force the player to split up his team... the result of that design philosophy obviously has an impact on map design.
Click to expand...

Yeah I generally ran with a small squad of 5-8 with a laser tank and a hovertank in the original, because any more and the game's pace turned plodding. Or I just had a bunch of dudes milling about doing nothing which annoyed me even more. So I generally tend to agree with the direction Jake chose, although of course I haven't played it so I can't say either way whether it lacks suspense or whatnot. I think it'll be fine especially in the special missions where you can't just camp out with overwatch freely. Even in the easy-ass demo with obvious enemy locations I proceeded very cautiously.

On a related note my plan for EU is actually to make a squad that can split into two groups easily and have them function independently of one another if necessary. I've been reading a certain visual novel
Muv-luv
recently and one of the great points it makes is that having a squad of highly specialized individuals is a terrible idea because if one of them dies your whole plan can fall apart, plus you'd be under huge pressure to replace them even if they were just injured for a few days. Kinda funny how well this applies to X-COM but I guess the basic plotlines are pretty similar anyways.
 
M

markot

Banned
I loved that stuff in the original. It was search and destroy. It made it much more strategic. It was like the difference between a 1 front war and a 2 or 3 or 4 front one where you are surrounded. Its the corridorification effect. Not even stratagy games are safe. less suspense is terrible.
 
G

garath

Member
Jintor said:
I feel that it's at its worst in story missions (which are very often corridors) and at its best during just, well, general gameplay (abduction, terror missions, whatever). I mean, I can't fight your honest opinion, but bug hunts/closet busting was not my idea of suspense - as someone on the cast mentioned, closer to boredom than excitement.
Click to expand...

I've got to agree with this. I remember plodding through levels in the original trying to find that last alien to finish the mission. It was a little tiresome. I like the approach of the handcrafted maps designed to keep the suspense and action up.

I've only seen limited footage though. We'll see how the end game pans out.
 
E

electricpirate

Member
For those in the states looking for a coupon, make an account (this part is important I think) at newegg and use the code EMCJNNH224 to get 12 dollars off the pre-order.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16874166025

Hat tip to reddit
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/10t5ku/newegg_is_selling_topnotch_preorders_such_as/

I went xbawks, After booting up the demo I couldn't take the hitching due to my slowass hard drive. Time to accelerate the deposits into my PC building fund.
 
D

derFeef

Member
Just a reminder, europe folks can still get it 25% off with the "GMG25-EVFWS-4Z4ZN" voucher at greenmangaming (Steam version).
 
G

garath

Member
electricpirate said:
For those in the states looking for a coupon, make an account (this part is important I think) at newegg and use the code EMCJNNH224 to get 12 dollars off the pre-order.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16874166025

Hat tip to reddit
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/10t5ku/newegg_is_selling_topnotch_preorders_such_as/

I went xbawks, After booting up the demo I couldn't take the hitching due to my slowass hard drive. Time to accelerate the deposits into my PC building fund.
Click to expand...

Not worth it if you want the PC version unfortunately. Newegg has it at $60 instead of $50. Might as well get it a few days earlier and pay $2 more through steam (or $3 less through amazon, or $15 less through GMG lol).

Great for console versions though!!
 
G

Grimsen

Member
I remember looking for that last fucking alien on a TFTD cruiseship for 10-15 turns, only to find myself face to face with a bio-drone in a bathroom.

Tedious you say? hell yeah. :/
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
Also, Best Buy is giving $15 gift cards with a preorder. I did store pickup but you could also do free shipping. Either way they ship you the gift card immediately.

360

PS3

The physical PC version seems to be sold out.
 
N

Nocebo

Member
Gosh guys. There are other ways to prevent the dreaded "bug hunt" problem than killing emergent gameplay and limiting: the positions you start, where the aliens are seeded, the size of the map, size of the squad etc.
 
P

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Gvaz said:
I hope this isn't dumbed down from the originals, they were so good
Click to expand...

That fact that it has a cover system for dummies shows that it already is in that aspect.

Though for a more personal look at the game a demo is available through Steam so you can check it out for yourself.
 
N

Nocebo

Member
Jintor said:
so... some of the things they changed...?
Click to expand...
I guess my grammar was bad? I meant that yes that are the things they changed and I wanted to say that there are other ways to prevent the problem of hunting for the last alien because the map is big and aliens could be anywhere. Limiting those things I mentioned make the gameplay more rigid in my opinion.
 
C

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Can you blow holes in roofs/ceilings? Imagine this scenario :

Multiplayer, you're controlling a Floater and your opponent has barricaded himself in a house, you land on the roof and toss a grenade, will it then blow a hole that you can then descend through?
 
J

Jintor

Member
Ah, it's because you added the superfluous colon, it changed the meaning completely.

I'm just sick of people yelling dumbed down, consolised, blah blah blah (not you Nocebo). It's the most asinine complaint, especially when you haven't had a chance to poke around the entire tactical system yet.

I mean at a certain point X-com play pretty much devolved into expendable scouts and accurate snipers. Use the scouts to get squad site vision and go to town with snipers. It got even more effed up when you could mind control anybody within site range and then just daisy chain mind control, stack mutons in piles high and then make them drop their own grenades on themselves. That wasn't exactly high tactics.

XCOM's focus on positioning is so much stronger than the original's. Once you realise how badass flanking and height bonuses are, as well as individual LOS, and then taking into consideration specialised abilities like wall bursting, grenades, etc... I honestly think the tactical gameplay is way improved.
 
G

garath

Member
Derrick01 said:
Uhh didn't the original have cover too?
Click to expand...

I think he wants it to be obscure and only apparent to hard core players. Making it more accessible instead of having to guess what piece of asset provides partial vs full cover and what direction is a bad thing apparently.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
Jintor said:
I'm just sick of people yelling dumbed down, consolised, blah blah blah (not you Nocebo). It's the most asinine complaint, especially when you haven't had a chance to poke around the entire tactical system yet.
Click to expand...
Regardless of what the final product is like there will be XCOM fans who claim that it is dumbed down and not "XCOM" enough. It was the same story with Deus Ex: HR last year. Personally I just look past those complaints and try to look at the game for what it is.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
The_Darkest_Red said:
Regardless of what the final product is like there will be XCOM fans who claim that it is dumbed down and not "XCOM" enough. It was the same story with Deus Ex: HR last year. Personally I just look past those complaints and try to look at the game for what it is.
Click to expand...

That was different. Human Revolution was definitely not nearly as well done as 1 and was missing quite a number of things. It was still a well done game as far as modern standards goes but people saying it's "dumbed down" absolutely had a point.
 
R

robin2

Member
Derrick01 said:
Human Revolution was definitely not nearly as well done as 1 and was missing quite a number of things. It was still a well done game as far as modern standards goes but people saying it's "dumbed down" absolutely had a point.
Click to expand...
So exactly the same of XCOMEU.
 
W

whalleywhat

Member
Derrick01 said:
That was different. Human Revolution was definitely not nearly as well done as 1 and was missing quite a number of things. It was still a well done game as far as modern standards goes but people saying it's "dumbed down" absolutely had a point.
Click to expand...

I think most of the failings of DE:HR had to do with Eidos Montreal just not being as good as Ion Storm Austin. It largely attempts to be faithful.
 
H

Hindle

Banned
Hmm I'm thinking they may add a tank for DLC. You know like VC. They would have to expand the maps to make it work.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
In Julian Gollop's (creator of the original X-Com) latest TBS game, Ghost Recon Shadow Wars, characters automatically take cover behind walls too. I don't call that dumbing down, I call that intelligent game design.
 
P

pahamrick

Member
I'd never played an XCOM game before, but the demo immediately made me pre-order and grab the X-Com Complete Pack off Steam. Best of both worlds!
 
R

robin2

Member
Neuromancer said:
In Julian Gollop's (creator of the original X-Com) latest TBS game, Ghost Recon Shadow Wars, characters automatically take cover behind walls too. I don't call that dumbing down, I call that intelligent game design.
Click to expand...
This argument doesn't make ANY sense. Shadow Wars design is totally different from X-COM, as it is a "predictable" kind of combat and meant to be very agile because its a game for a mobile platform.
 
C

Chrono Helix

Member
Just tried the demo, is it seriously only 2 missions?! And the first is heavily scripted too! Real excited for the game though! Is there any way to guarantee you capture alien corpses? In the second mission the first pair of aliens you meet linked themselves psychically, so somehow when I killed one both died. The flying aliens I shot down individually, and I just used a grenade to blow up the thin men. The only corpses the I salvaged were of the first pair.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
Derrick01 said:
That was different. Human Revolution was definitely not nearly as well done as 1 and was missing quite a number of things. It was still a well done game as far as modern standards goes but people saying it's "dumbed down" absolutely had a point.
Click to expand...
My point is not even that the complaints are necessarily invalid, I just think they are overly idealistic. Maybe it's just pessimism but I don't think any big budget game released today is going to be as mechanically complex (and at times archaic, although I admit there is a distinction to be made there) as something like the original Deus Ex or XCOM. However, I think Deus Ex: HR was still enjoyably complex in its own right, and I expect the same out of XCOM: Enemy Unknown.

Also, I haven't played the original Deus Ex or the original XCOM, which is why I added the "personally" to the last part of my comment. My point is that for me personally it doesn't matter if the new DE or XCOM isn't as complex as the original, I just want to look at the game for what it is outside of any preconceived notions about what it should be. If you are a huge fan of the original Deus Ex or XCOM then I can understand why you would feel differently, though.

Quite frankly I'm just incredibly excited that a game like this is being made with this kind of budget in the year 2012.
 
M

MrCompletely

Member
4 - 6 soldier squads? Back in my day, we could fill an avenger with 20 soldiers! And then spend an extra 30 minutes at the end of each map to manually move each one just to find that last alien! AND WE LIKED IT.

I can't believe they actually show your soldier stats while you're equipping him! Back in my day, we had to REMEMBER our soldier stats while equipping them before a mission! AND WE LIKED IT.

And whats this about line of site? Back in my day, if we wanted to get a 360 fov around our soldier, we had to manually rotate him 3 times. AND WE LIKED IT.

Have fun with your Fisher Price XCOM set.
 
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