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[Verger]

Reading the Dragon Age Origins v. Inquistion thread on the front page, I think XBX will be fairly similar in a Xenoblade (DA:O) v. Xenoblade X (Inquisition). Just like Inquisition, XBX while good, goes to an open world MMO-design and becomes bloated and more bland compared to Xenoblade. But like how Inquisition won all the game of the year awards, I wouldn't be surprised if XBX won most of them too and then a year later people start talking about how it wasn't as good as the original.

XBX is a really beautiful game world. I haven't really talked about it but the weather and environment effects are incredible and second to none at making the places feel cinematic and gorgeous. From snowstorms to heatwaves to lightning and rain, to butterflies and fireflies swirling around. It's a great, great looking world (even if the characters look pretty generic).

Right now the game still feels like about an 8/10 game at 70+ hours in. Unless something drastically changes in the last 2-3 hours of story that's left, I don't really see that changing. It's a good game, but it's not a great game imo and that makes it disappointing coming from the team's pedigree, especially since Xenoblade was truly a great game. It's no Xenosaga ep2 disaster, as Xenoblade X isn't a bad game by any means, but a lot of the time it's just kind of average one while only some of the time it's truly a great game and that's disappointing.

I have the feeling that the first focus of Xenoblade X for Takahashi and his team was "Let's see if we can make a gigantic open world where you can transition from a character on foot to a mech boosting across the sky at anytime seamlessly" and they did it and pulled it off in spades.

I just feel like "let's make an rpg to go in that world" came second.

You're definitely giving me several reasons to lose anticipation for this game here. I remember earlier asking if the game had shit sidequests like Dragon Age Inquisitions and it sucks that it seems to be the case. But if the main story isn't rewarding either then that's just as bad. Also hate how the world doesn't seem to be as interesting to explore and that you're going to keep going back and forth and back and forth over and over again. This is the kind of tripe I absolutely detest "Open-World" games for, and DAI was one of the worst yet (and for the record I've stopped playing Ubisoft games altogether because of that)

I worried that the combination of both on-foot and Doll gameplay and trying to create a world that could accomodate both without breaking things would be too much to ask of the development team. In the original game since you were only on foot the game world only had to take that into account, with the Dolls now they had to add that factor in as well when designing the world and I fear that was to the detriment of both.

And then of course there's the music which is just such a letdown after the originals. I'm definitely not as eager for this game as I originally was now.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

For example, she much prefers the expanded and wide cast in this game and their characterization (even if some of the cast is really bad), the way the expanded universe in-game comes together, and the much more widely customizable game/combat/team elements. To put it simply: the system is better to the gameplay

Did you she really think the gameplay was better? I assume that includes combat, but I found the original Xenoblade combat to be more enjoyable. Primarily because the whole aggro management system made sense. 40 hours in, and I feel like I still don't quite get the combat in this game.

 

[Vena]

Did you she really think the gameplay was better? I assume that includes combat, but I found the original Xenoblade combat to be more enjoyable. Primarily because the whole aggro management system made sense. 40 hours in, and I feel like I still don't quite get the combat in this game.

She's not said anything about having trouble with aggro? I'll ask. But yes, she does think the game plays better than the original.

 

[Bebpo]

You're definitely giving me several reasons to lose anticipation for this game here. I remember earlier asking if the game had shit sidequests like Dragon Age Inquisitions and it sucks that it seems to be the case. But if the main story isn't rewarding either then that's just as bad. Also hate how the world doesn't seem to be as interesting to explore and that you're going to keep going back and forth and back and forth over and over again. This is the kind of tripe I absolutely detest "Open-World" games for, and DAI was one of the worst yet (and for the record I've stopped playing Ubisoft games altogether because of that)

I worried that the combination of both on-foot and Doll gameplay and trying to create a world that could accomodate both without breaking things would be too much to ask of the development team. In the original game since you were only on foot the game world only had to take that into account, with the Dolls now they had to add that factor in as well when designing the world and I fear that was to the detriment of both.

And then of course there's the music which is just such a letdown after the originals. I'm definitely not as eager for this game as I originally was now.

It's not that bad in any of those areas. It's definitely better than Inquisition in world design like Hasemo says and you could avoid about half of the Everquest MMO boring fetch this or kill that quests.

It's still a good game, but there's never anything wrong with going in with a bit lower expectations only to be pleasantly surprised.

She's not said anything about having trouble with aggro? I'll ask. But yes, she does think the game plays better than the original.

I think the combat is better but the balance worse.

And yes, I also enjoy these gameplay discussions

Did you she really think the gameplay was better? I assume that includes combat, but I found the original Xenoblade combat to be more enjoyable. Primarily because the whole aggro management system made sense. 40 hours in, and I feel like I still don't quite get the combat in this game.

What kind of aggro problems are you having? My aggro solution is if you're fighting stuff a little above your level don't fight multiple enemies at once. At or below your level, aggro a full group. You can sneak by/run past most enemies in the game.

 

[InternHertz]

Well I finally beat the last boss, after gaining 3 more levels...and I had an easy time...

And so yeah, I really like the ending of the game! The cinematics were really well done, and it was interesting, so I'm really wishing they did it like that throughout the whole game :/

(ending spoilers incoming)
That said, what a bunch of jokers for

Spoiler

ending with that mega tease and the words "This story is never ending".

I'll have to rewatch the final part though because I couldn't really see

Spoiler

any clue to figuring out who the man walking to Lao is

the first time.
I NEED to know what this all means D:

 

[Bebpo]

The affection levels are awful though. I just got another character (my 16th playable character) and instead of being excited "awesome, new character!" it's like "oh god, not another character I have to grind DLC affection missions if I want to see his/her story". I mean the game goes nuts at times. There are at least 2 characters that you can't get until after chapter 10 and then they expect you to be at 3 hearts with both after chapter 11 to do their next kizuna mission.

It was bad enough in the original having to get the 6 or so party members to 5 hearts, but now since the way XBX works is that almost no one gets character development in the main story (outside Elma/Lynne and their work bosses), all the character stories for each of the party members (their backgrounds, their motivations, their personal struggles) are all contained in their 2-4 kizuna/affection quests. but to see those cutscenes (full voiced and full production value) you have to get those party members to 4-5 hearts by the end and with sixteen+ members (and even brand new members you get 70 hours in start at 0 hearts) it's nothing but a pure grind for hours to unlock mission/cutscene and see their story.

The lvl.40 "pay money to skip grinding" DLC mission for affection gives about 20% of one heart per 3-4 minute mission. So about 15 minutes a heart, 1-2 hours of repeating the same 4 minute mission over and over again to get to 5 hearts with one character and there's 16+ of them. I dunno if I'll do that after I beat the game (hopefully the lvl.50 DLC quest gives at least half a heart per mission), or if I'll just youtube the rest of the cutscenes for each character. They should have just gone all the way and had a "pay $10 to press A to max everyone to five hearts". I would buy that.

 

[theSlacker]

The affection levels are awful though. I just got another character (my 16th playable character) and instead of being excited "awesome, new character!" it's like "oh god, not another character I have to grind DLC affection missions if I want to see his/her story". I mean the game goes nuts at times. There are at least 2 characters that you can't get until after chapter 10 and then they expect you to be at 3 hearts with both after chapter 11 to do their next kizuna mission.

It was bad enough in the original having to get the 6 or so party members to 5 hearts, but now since the way XBX works is that almost no one gets character development in the main story (outside Elma/Lynne and their work bosses), all the character stories for each of the party members (their backgrounds, their motivations, their personal struggles) are all contained in their 2-4 kizuna/affection quests. but to see those cutscenes (full voiced and full production value) you have to get those party members to 4-5 hearts by the end and with sixteen+ members (and even brand new members you get 70 hours in start at 0 hearts) it's nothing but a pure grind for hours to unlock mission/cutscene and see their story.

The lvl.40 "pay money to skip grinding" DLC mission for affection gives about 20% of one heart per 3-4 minute mission. So about 15 minutes a heart, 1-2 hours of repeating the same 4 minute mission over and over again to get to 5 hearts with one character and there's 16+ of them. I dunno if I'll do that after I beat the game (hopefully the lvl.50 DLC quest gives at least half a heart per mission), or if I'll just youtube the rest of the cutscenes for each character. They should have just gone all the way and had a "pay $10 to press A to max everyone to five hearts". I would buy that.

How does the friendship leveling work in this game? Like is there a good way of getting it if you don't want to exploit dlc? I remember the "cave of friendship" in the first game, where it was me just taking all the skills off of everyone's bars and constantly healing their status from the fire mob in some ice cave.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What kind of aggro problems are you having? My aggro solution is if you're fighting stuff a little above your level don't fight multiple enemies at once. At or below your level, aggro a full group. You can sneak by/run past most enemies in the game.

I should have said "hate." Hate management and monster control in general is just frustrating in this game compared to the past one. Maybe it's just the kind of player I am, but it seems less straightforward than the original Xenoblade, which I'm casually playing on the 3DS alongside this.

 

[Martylepiaf]

CD Japan shipped Xenoblade X OST CD today

 

[Bebpo]

Ok, I stand corrected, Dolls have to be affected by your character level somehow. I'm lvl.48 character now and my lvl.30 Doll is having no problem with lvl.52 enemies when I know that when I got my Doll at lvl.30 I was only able to fight enemies up to around lvl.43-44 with ease. Even when I upgraded it fully around lvl.38 I couldn't fight stuff over lvl.50. So there has to be some influence from the levels/character stats.

I think maybe it's like Xenoblade where enemy stats are modified by some % based on levels above/levels below.


Also for those who've beat the story, I'm assuming I should get lvl.50 Dolls and upgrade them up before taking on the final story chapter? I finished ch.11 at lvl.46 and I've been grinding the lvl.55 crocodiles in the white continent for a bit and already got to 48. Figure I should probably grind up to 50 and get lvl.50 Dolls before going for the final chapter/final boss?

 

[tonyh24613]

Ok, I stand corrected, Dolls have to be affected by your character level somehow. I'm lvl.48 character now and my lvl.30 Doll is having no problem with lvl.52 enemies when I know that when I got my Doll at lvl.30 I was only able to fight enemies up to around lvl.43-44 with ease. Even when I upgraded it fully around lvl.38 I couldn't fight stuff over lvl.50. So there has to be some influence from the levels/character stats.

I think maybe it's like Xenoblade where enemy stats are modified by some % based on levels above/levels below.


Also for those who've beat the story, I'm assuming I should get lvl.50 Dolls and upgrade them up before taking on the final story chapter? I finished ch.11 at lvl.46 and I've been grinding the lvl.55 crocodiles in the white continent for a bit and already got to 48. Figure I should probably grind up to 50 and get lvl.50 Dolls before going for the final chapter/final boss?

One Lv50 doll should be enough, two will be more than enough. Make sure you save before Elma

Spoiler

ask you twice.

 

[Bebpo]

Gotcha. Hit lvl.50 but wtf at the prices of the lvl.50 dolls. Gonna have to grind money quests just to get one. It's like one grind after another at this endgame. Whether for levels to get to lvl.50 mechs, money to buy lvl.50 mechs, affection to do the end kizuna quests that require 4/5 hearts, etc... even for an jrpg it's pretty grind-heavy at this point.

 

[Hasemo]

Gotcha. Hit lvl.50 but wtf at the prices of the lvl.50 dolls. Gonna have to grind money quests just to get one. It's like one grind after another at this endgame. Whether for levels to get to lvl.50 mechs, money to buy lvl.50 mechs, affection to do the end kizuna quests that require 4/5 hearts, etc... even for an jrpg it's pretty grind-heavy at this point.

Don't forget grinding materials to get lv 60 dolls.

 

[Bebpo]

Don't forget grinding materials to get lv 60 dolls.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna bail out after I get one lvl.50 doll and finish the story. Will see if I can find the remaining kizuna quest cutscenes on niconico or youtube. It just seems like the endgame/post-game is gonna be spending hours doing the DLC 4 mins quests over and over and that's just not worth my time.

 

[Vena]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna bail out after I get one lvl.50 doll and finish the story. Will see if I can find the remaining kizuna quest cutscenes on niconico or youtube. It just seems like the endgame/post-game is gonna be spending hours doing the DLC 4 mins quests over and over and that's just not worth my time.

Everything is better than dodging ten lightning strikes.

But why even subject yourself to post-game you don't seem to enjoy, lol. (Especially the last level of Dolls which are almost solely for the megabosses.) I can't imagine you were someone who ground out levels in Xeno1 for Abaasy either.

 

[Hasemo]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna bail out after I get one lvl.50 doll and finish the story. Will see if I can find the remaining kizuna quest cutscenes on niconico or youtube. It just seems like the endgame/post-game is gonna be spending hours doing the DLC 4 mins quests over and over and that's just not worth my time.

I thibk it took me 3 hours of that quest to get 4 lv 50 Dolls, maybe a bit more, but I stopped playing after doing that and reaching lv 60.
As much as I love the exploration, figuring out where to get certain drops and grinding affinity isn't exactly my idea of "fun".

 

[Bebpo]

Everything is better than dodging ten lightning strikes.

But why even subject yourself to post-game you don't seem to enjoy, lol. (Especially the last level of Dolls which are almost solely for the megabosses.) I can't imagine you were someone who ground out levels in Xeno1 for Abaasy either.

Actually I'm pretty sure I finished Xenoblade out 100%. I definitely remember that I hit max lvl and I spent about 120-130 hours in that game and loved every minute of it. I usually do everything in games (especially ones I like) because I like to see all the content, moreso if there's story or lore involved.

I'd love to see all the kizuna quests through, to see the final bits of story for a good chunk of the supporting characters, but doing a DLC affection quest over and over where you just are dropped in an arena and fight the same 4-8 enemies and don't get any xp/money anything besides affection level...it's pretty boring. If niconico or youtube has them, I can get the same experience but save myself 5+ hours of that.

There's a difference between post-game and pure grinding to get to post-game. Post-game fights are fun where you fight the toughest bosses the game has to offer and have to develop the best strategies and customization to defeat them.

Grinding xp/money/materials to get to the point where you can do the above is a separate matter and requires no brain, no strategies and nothing but your time. There's a dozen+ high quality games that have been released/are being released in 2015, would rather spend time on quality games than grinding.

And I might be wrong but I think the lvl.60 dolls are for the mega-bosses. The lvl.50 ones are for the endgame stuff and they're a grind to get.

 

[Vena]

Actually I'm pretty sure I finished Xenoblade out 100%. I definitely remember that I hit max lvl and I spent about 120-130 hours in that game and loved every minute of it. I usually do everything in games (especially ones I like) because I like to see all the content, moreso if there's story or lore involved.

I'd love to see all the kizuna quests through, to see the final bits of story for a good chunk of the supporting characters, but doing a DLC affection quest over and over where you just are dropped in an arena and fight the same 4-8 enemies and don't get any xp/money anything besides affection level...it's pretty boring. If niconico or youtube has them, I can get the same experience but save myself 5+ hours of that.

There's a difference between post-game and pure grinding to get to post-game. Post-game fights are fun where you fight the toughest bosses the game has to offer and have to develop the best strategies and customization to defeat them.

Grinding xp/money/materials to get to the point where you can do the above is a separate matter and requires no brain, no strategies and nothing but your time. There's a dozen+ high quality games that have been released/are being released in 2015, would rather spend time on quality games than grinding.

I'm sorry but there's nothing but pure grinding between Zanza/game completion and Abaasy (or the other four), and it has next to no lore attached to it. Its just a big ass dragon with a bunch of health and instakill ability. There are next to no skills left to get, no customization, nothing but just grinding up levels and enough Agility to speed tank the shit out of him with Dunban. (There's not much to do level/gamewise post high-50s in the game aside from just treadmilling the levels/gear as the story progresses, and you can beat Zanza long before you're even in the 80s. And the last leg of the levels is SLOOOOW.)

I suspect you may not have killed him at all or any of his ilk. I mean, heck, the entire affinity system and getting 100% affinity events in Xeno1 was a slog of a grind too. Also how the heck did you hit max level without grinding? Did you fight Zanza at level 99?

Pure grind. I stand by my previous point that people played some other game called "Xenoblade" than I did, lol. Because I swear we're just checking off a list of things in Xenoblade (aside from the story being weaker in the main plot line). (Especially since I am replaying it now on the 3DS port... and am level grinding my way to Abaasy and farming Air mines for Agility gems.)

And I might be wrong but I think the lvl.60 dolls are for the mega-bosses. The lvl.50 ones are for the endgame stuff and they're a grind to get.

Indeed I was referring to the final frame, the 60s. Also you don't even really need a full set of 50s, I think.

Anyway, bed time for me!

 

[Bebpo]

Eh, maybe XB1 was a pure grind in the endgame. Hard to remember as it's been 5 years. Maybe I was more okay with wasting hours grinding back in 2010 as I had more free time and there weren't as many other great games to play (2015 is by far the best year in gaming since 1998 or 2004).

I think whether people are ok with pure grinding for dozens of hours to see endgame content is subjective and depends on if people like doing that (I'm not sure why anyone would like grinding a group of enemies over and over for a dozen hours) or if they have a lot of free time and not much to do and are really determined to get to the final game content.

But honestly, the best rpgs have tons of optional endgame/post-game content and don't require tons of grinding to have a chance against them. One of the best side-content filled jrpgs was Shadow Hearts 2 (especially the director's cut) and that game didn't have any grinding at all.

 

[kubus]

Haha Bepbo your posts could've been mine.

Also Level 50 now (you might've lvled up by now though) and starting the grind to get Lvl 50 Doll(s) so I can do the final story quest. Yesterday I did a hour of DLC support quest grinding to get enough Milanium to unlock the Lvl 50 Dolls with Company Management (I never bothered to upgrade the Sakura somethingsomething company). Now I'm grinding for money to buy a Lvl 50 Doll. I can't wait (/sarcasm) till I start the DLC character Kizuna quests... I had no idea you needed 3 hearts to activate the later ones :/.

I also 100%ed Xenoblade Chronicles and it's my favorite game ever. I went into XenobladeX blind except knowing about the basic features (so I couldn't have been overhyped) and after about 60 hours I think I can safely say that XenobladeX won't be topping the original in my opinion. Though I still have one story quest left... Hopefully the game has a good ending .

It's nowhere near a bad game but it has a lot of (small) issues. First and foremost being the silent protagonist. They should've went the Mass Effect route with this. I almost wish my character wasn't there because she just stands around in cutscenes and every time she "speaks" the music is interrupted and ugh. Takes you out of the game. Also Dolls are one of the best things about this game but also one of the worst. Once you unlock them and the flight pack, exploration loses its meaning since you can fly everywhere. Battles are also less interesting because classes don't do anything anymore. Doll customization could've been way cooler.

Anyway, I'll reserve final judgment for when I beat the story and finished up the rest of the quests .

Btw the music is awesome with a few exceptions. If I hear "Is this thing on? Is anyone there? Am I all alone?" one more time....

edit because people posted since I was typing a reply:
@Vena: I beat

Spoiler

Zanza

at Lvl 99 without doing any level grinding . As well as Abaasy. The only pure grinding I did was at that island to max everyone's affinity as well as to get some materials for the gems I needed to beat Abaasy. So it's possible

 

[tonyh24613]

I wont call most of the quests "post game content" since they're doable before main story ending. And one LV 50 + three LV30 dolls are pretty enough to finish them. With good research probes set, one should be able to earn a few millions while they're doing side quests. Materials and high level inner/doll weapons/equipments are what people needs to grind. One bug worth mentioning: treasure sensor ability only works on the forth party member.

 

[Bebpo]

Yeah, I really like the music too. The music, the graphics, the cutscene direction are all great.

On the white continent though there's some noise that is like this ambient owl noise or something and it's really annoying. It's not part of the music and I even heard it in some cutscenes there, it was so subtle I kept thinking it was something in my room lol Weird!

 

[tonyh24613]

Over the rainbow is too good. Sometimes I just fly and open the menu to enjoy.

 

[ivysaur12]

The grinding in XBC was really, really bad, especially when trying to go from level 68-85. Things got better after that, but man, those 15-18 levels were rough.

 

[Bebpo]

Over the rainbow is too good. Sometimes I just fly and open the menu to enjoy.

Yup. Sometimes I think the best part of the game is just being a mech flying simulator. Flying around the world and over rivers, free falling with a team of mech or rising in ascension up as the dawn comes out is awesome. The mechs feel really good, I think that's what they wanted to accomplish with this game and they pulled that part off.

 

[Vena]

edit because people posted since I was typing a reply:
@Vena: I beat

Spoiler

Zanza

at Lvl 99 without doing any level grinding . As well as Abaasy. The only pure grinding I did was at that island to max everyone's affinity as well as to get some materials for the gems I needed to beat Abaasy. So it's possible

"Only", lol. Even the healing farm for affinity takes ages. You need to repeat that ~250 times per character combination at Pink if you've never used them (so most of the cast if you have stuck to the best)... and its not even a fight, you're just standing around casting heals on naked, unarmed party members (or saving them from Daze/Stun). Unless you had some better way of doing it?

I have no idea how you got to Zanza at 99, did you do every single fetch quest on the way there? I beat Zanza at mid-80s (and even getting to there was a grind because the game slows to a crawl on levels post-60s) on my first play through and then farmed levels/mats for Abaasy.

I mean, heck, most of the content in XenoX game doesn't even need "post-game". From what I know, a 50 doll, a single one, is more or less enough for everything. The only reason to go beyond that is either (a.) you want to fight the megas (which are post game) or (b.) you want to trivialize fights while looking pimp. This is pretty much just farming for Abaasy.

 

[Schlomo]

One bug worth mentioning: treasure sensor ability only works on the forth party member.

What does that do? I couldn't find any explanation in the game.

 

[tonyh24613]

What does that do? I couldn't find any explanation in the game.

Better loots I think.

 

[kubus]

"Only", lol. Even the healing farm for affinity takes ages. You need to repeat that ~250 times per character combination at Pink if you've never used them (so most of the cast if you have stuck to the best)... and its not even a fight, you're just standing around casting heals on naked, unarmed party members (or saving them from Daze/Stun). Unless you had some better way of doing it?

I have no idea how you got to Zanza at 99, did you do every single fetch quest on the way there? I beat Zanza at mid-80s (and even getting to there was a grind because the game slows to a crawl on levels post-60s) on my first play through and then farmed levels/mats for Abaasy.

I mean, heck, most of the content in XenoX game doesn't even need "post-game". From what I know, a 50 doll, a single one, is more or less enough for everything. The only reason to go beyond that is either (a.) you want to fight the megas (which are post game) or (b.) you want to trivialize fights while looking pimp. This is pretty much just farming for Abaasy.

Farming affinity was the last thing I needed to do and luckily I switched most of my party around while playing so I only needed a few hearts for each character. Most of it was done by gifting tons of worthless items, I think, and the rest at the island. Yeah it was stupid but I absolutely wanted to 100% everything .
I totally did every dumb fetch quests along the way, haha. Anyone would call me crazy but I quite enjoyed it. I even printed out the entire quest list and ticked boxes for each quest I completed. My rule was "don't proceed to the next story quest until I did every quest in the area". The downside was that I was super overleved for the story bosses, so Zanza went down in seconds, haha.

 

[random25]

I already watched streams that beat the game with only the default lvl.30 dolls in tow, and party members that are just a little above lvl.50, with the avatar player having the highest at lvl.52, and lowest character at lvl.45. I really don't see grinding for better dolls to be a requirement at all.

 

[Bebpo]

I already watched streams that beat the game with only the default lvl.30 dolls in tow, and party members that are just a little above lvl.50, with the avatar player having the highest at lvl.52, and lowest character at lvl.45. I really don't see grinding for better dolls to be a requirement at all.

That's more for the post lvl.50 big monsters and their quests. And lvl.60 grind for super optional bosses.

And affinity grind is required as most of the final affinity quests require 4 hearts with all kinds of characters. And since the main story is pretty short and most of the character development is in the affinity quests, it is pretty required if you want to see a big chunk of the actual story in the game.

Just to play through the main plot though, you probably don't have to grind at all.

 

[random25]

That's more for the post lvl.50 big monsters and their quests. And lvl.60 grind for super optional bosses.

And affinity grind is required as most of the final affinity quests require 4 hearts with all kinds of characters. And since the main story is pretty short and most of the character development is in the affinity quests, it is pretty required if you want to see a big chunk of the actual story in the game.

Just to play through the main plot though, you probably don't have to grind at all.

But you said earlier that you need to get lvl.50 dolls so you can finish the game, since it seems you are having difficulty in the end game fights. Just saying that plowing through the main story up to the end doesn't really require higher level dolls when some already beat even the final boss using default dolls, and no super weapons to boot. Of course higher level dolls and weapons are for special monsters and side content, but grinding for the main story battles vary from person to person. One can grind for levels or money because they find the battles difficult, but another can just manage by using different battle strategies.

 

[TheMoon]

But like how Inquisition won all the game of the year awards, I wouldn't be surprised if XBX won most of them too and then a year later people start talking about how it wasn't as good as the original.

Rest assured XenobladeX won't be winning any GOTY awards unless it's from fansites. It being a Japanese RPG on Wii U will make sure of that regardless of quality.^^

The grinding in XBC was really, really bad, especially when trying to go from level 68-85. Things got better after that, but man, those 15-18 levels were rough.

There's no grinding in that game. What. Just do sidequests.

 

[Kanann]

This game need to sip some awards
but all I can see are only from RPG fansite

 

[Vena]

Farming affinity was the last thing I needed to do and luckily I switched most of my party around while playing so I only needed a few hearts for each character. Most of it was done by gifting tons of worthless items, I think, and the rest at the island. Yeah it was stupid but I absolutely wanted to 100% everything .
I totally did every dumb fetch quests along the way, haha. Anyone would call me crazy but I quite enjoyed it. I even printed out the entire quest list and ticked boxes for each quest I completed. My rule was "don't proceed to the next story quest until I did every quest in the area". The downside was that I was super overleved for the story bosses, so Zanza went down in seconds, haha.

I'm convinced you are a robot!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This game need to sip some awards
but all I can see are only from RPG fansite

I really don't see it happening at all outside of core RPG fan sites and Nintendo-exclusive media.

A lot of the mainstream gaming press in the west is going to hate this game.

Yup. Sometimes I think the best part of the game is just being a mech flying simulator. Flying around the world and over rivers, free falling with a team of mech or rising in ascension up as the dawn comes out is awesome. The mechs feel really good, I think that's what they wanted to accomplish with this game and they pulled that part off.

Yeah, flying around with mechs is the most awesome part of the game for sure. They nailed it.

 

[Vena]

A lot of the mainstream gaming press in the west is going to hate this game.

Doesn't get much more mainstream than IGN, and they like what they've played so far (many hours in). 8-4 has pretty western sensibilities as well.

It won't win any awards for the same reason Bayo2 didn't, its on the WiiU. You slap Bayo2 anywhere else, and it would have been a heralded triumph like Bloodborne (to a slightly lesser extent in sales, though).

 

[theprodigy]

Doesn't get much more mainstream than IGN, and they like what they've played so far (many hours in). 8-4 has pretty western sensibilities as well.

It won't win any awards for the same reason Bayo2 didn't, its on the WiiU. You slap Bayo2 anywhere else, and it would have been a heralded triumph like Bloodborne (to a slightly lesser extent in sales, though).

Bayo 1 didn't win many GOTY awards from the media either though?

if anything, Bayo 2 actually did better with the media than the first game

 

[Vena]

Bayo 1 didn't win many GOTY awards from the media either though?

if anything, Bayo 2 actually did better with the media than the first game

Bayo2 is a better game, and Bayo1 didn't come out in a console cycle not only starved of big-budget titles but with critical flops left and right lining up your entire exclusive line-up. Its one thing to have a critical darling amongst a crowd of darlings, and another to be the only one amongst a cavalcade of mediocrity. (It also helps that Miyazaki has a fervent following, lol.)

 

[tonyh24613]

OC Gear is more useful than dolls when fighting on the ground, as long as the enemy is not size LLL or 10 levels higher than you. I prefer human fights if I can't one-shot the enemies with my doll. And how did someone finished the time-attack quest in 2 second? I need, like, 5 seconds to run to the enemy before I start the fight.

 

[Lumyst]

Doesn't get much more mainstream than IGN, and they like what they've played so far (many hours in). 8-4 has pretty western sensibilities as well.

Xenoblade got a great reception from Western reviewers, even when rereviewed for 3DS. It's the reason word of mouth spread for the series I'd wager. As one who followed gaming very casually, It was definitely the IGN review of the Wii game that put the game on my purchase list (that was mostly Bethesda RPGs, Mario and Zelda, haha). Xenoblade is very interesting in that it's clearly Japanese made in its creativity, but it inherits ideas from Western games. I felt about it like "Oh! So I can enjoy a Japanese made role playing game the same way I can enjoy Western made role playing games." The structure of this game is even more Western-ish, so to be blunt, I think they noted the best opportunity for the next game's appeal was to go further in that direction.

I actually can't predict what its reception will be since it could go any number of ways based on what people want from a JRPG vs. what they find appealing about video games in general, or even, players of JRPGs vs. a more generalist gamer. The impressions I've read linked in the OP include some that really liked it and already played it to 120 hrs; the player from 8-4 seems immersed as well. There's also those who aren't through with it and already want it to end so they can clear some space on their WiiU What I think is that the Xenoblade series can have something inherently desired by Nintendo fans the way they yearned for big worlds with new stories in their favorite Nintendo IP, and it just so happens to be delivered through a JRPG. It may end up being a product purchased and evaluated by fans of JRPGs, but I love that Trinen called it an epic on the scale of Zelda or Metroid, since appealing to the "Nintendocore" is the game's best opportunity. And for Nintendo, I bet the project benefitted them in that they could take risks on an IP that isn't so deeply tied to their brand, and observe the realities of making such a large HD game for core gamers (the credits show it is in fact a AAA production compared to what was done by Nintendo before, complete with outsourcing to many different companies).

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Doesn't get much more mainstream than IGN, and they like what they've played so far (many hours in). 8-4 has pretty western sensibilities as well.

It won't win any awards for the same reason Bayo2 didn't, its on the WiiU. You slap Bayo2 anywhere else, and it would have been a heralded triumph like Bloodborne (to a slightly lesser extent in sales, though).

I didn't mean to imply that the degree of mainstream-ness correlates with whether or not a person will like the game. IGN also has a lot of huge Nintendo fans on their staff. Also, 8-4 is not gaming media, they are a localization company.

I may end up being wrong, but I can totally see this game getting disparaged for its structure and various quality of life deficiencies.

I'm expecting a lot of 7s and 8s, honestly.

 

[theprodigy]

Sorry to break it to you guys, but you can beat the superbosses and

Spoiler

Zanza

at level 53, no grinding needed beyond getting the right equipment

 

[Vena]

I didn't mean to imply that the degree of mainstream-ness correlates with whether or not a person will like the game. IGN also has a lot of huge Nintendo fans on their staff. Also, 8-4 is not gaming media, they are a localization company.

I may end up being wrong, but I can totally see this game getting disparaged for its structure and various quality of life deficiencies.

I'm expecting a lot of 7s and 8s, honestly.

You expect a lot of 7's and 8's for a game like this? After Inquisition was getting praised to high heaven? That'd be downright absurd especially since this is a far better world-designed game and far better a lot of other things.

Your pessimism and/or dislike for this title is a bit too high, imo, to the point of being rather unreasonable given what we know.

Sorry to break it to you guys, but you can beat the superbosses and

Spoiler

Zanza

at level 53, no grinding needed beyond getting the right equipment

Pfft. Lies!

 

[Lumyst]

I may end up being wrong, but I can totally see this game getting disparaged for its structure and various quality of life deficiencies.

Disparage is a strong word, usually there is an accepted tradeoff of some things when comparing a more linear experience to a full open world design, and many people who play RPGs really do enjoy the propositions that are possible because of those tradeoffs. The first Xenoblade did give a good feeling of allowing the player to do/check out things at their leisure, provided they advanced to the next area to add more locations to explore and go back to. Does Xenoblade X seem to you to not hit enough of the "highs" that are possible with a more carefully guided experience/story, but rather, has an abundance of content that doesn't quite reach that "highly satisfying" feel? (I guess that could also apply to the way the story is presented. Like, I did look at some cutscenes where there's lots of standing around and talking, rather than awesome action scenes that drive things forward rather decisively. A Famitsu reviewer mentioned a "slow tempo" and perhaps that is what the reviewer experienced, that they would rather not be subjected to that but instead, have the game "cut to the point." This could be something that is unrelated to the open world vs. linear tradeoff.)

But to evaluate open world games, the question I've felt is best to ask myself is "Do I feel rewarded for taking action?" It could be frustrating if, say, taking action means having to collect random blue crystals rather than, say, finding cool dungeons with contraptions to toy with in an action-adventure, new villages with fresh stories in them, etc., the way that popular open world WRPGs are. That's my curiousity about how reviewers will take to a story and world that forces them to do those things some players loved to hate about Xenoblade's gameplay People did find Xenoblade's gameplay addictive though in total, blue orbs and all, and they loved its world, despite it being light on options to interact more directly with its environment. (Though there was some fun, if janky, platforming, haha)

Proactive exploration tends to be the forte of the best received open world RPGs, yet the abundance of stuff to level up, the joy of seeing numbers go up, a satisfyingly complex battle system, seeing characters lives change through a story, unique art and world design, is what can make a JRPG good. If there are deficiencies in either realm, I wonder if the strengths of the other makes up for it to make a greater sum. That's why I'm so excited for this game, if only to answer that question for myself. It may have been said that Xenoblade addressed deficiencies in JRPGs by incorporating some Western ideas, but this game's structure reminds me so much of Western made games that it might be daring to address deficiencies in WRPGs by incorporating JRPG ideas. (They mentioned how stoic the worlds in WRPGs can feel, for instance.) If the product is received as deficient in both realms though, that would be the risk, yet even if that's the case, because the previous Xenoblade's gameplay was found enjoyable, there should be players who can enjoy this product in some way still.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You expect a lot of 7's and 8's for a game like this? After Inquisition was getting praised to high heaven? That'd be downright absurd especially since this is a far better world-designed game and far better a lot of other things.

Your pessimism and/or dislike for this title is a bit too high, imo, to the point of being rather unreasonable given what we know.

On the other hand, your zealotry in defense of a game you've yet to even play comes off as a bit odd to me, so opinions and all that.

I think Dragon Age Inquisition was massively disappointing overall, but it's important to see what parts of it were praised when discussing it comparison to other games. In terms of exploration, it was that you could go into a new area and run into all sorts of interesting NPCs and monsters and mini-dungeons that frequently had lots of story telling along with them. I found most of that stuff to be really unrewarding in the end, personally, but it resonated with a lot of reviewers.

There's really none of that in Xenoblade X. It's an open world (in a truer sense of the word than Dragon Age, for sure) with some neat environments to navigate once you get a flying mech, but there really isn't much of note to find by just wandering around. Unless the various vistas are reward enough for you when it comes to exploration, it's going to feel a bit empty to a lot of people. There are almost no (maybe even zero) NPCs to encounter in the world that kick off any interesting quest chains.

So it lacks the randomness and dynamism that people love about open world games such as Skyrim, GTA, Red Dead Redemption, etc. but also doesn't have any of the static content discovery elements of MMORPGs and games that are set up like them (Dragon Age Inquisition, for example). What it gains is some cool verticality with the environments in certain areas, but that only becomes apparent once you get the ability to fly. Personally, I don't think that's going to be enough for a lot of reviewers, especially when it takes 30~40 hours to get to that point.

Disparage is a strong word, usually there is an accepted tradeoff of some things when comparing a more linear experience to a full open world design, and many people who play RPGs really do enjoy the propositions that are possible because of those tradeoffs. The first Xenoblade did give a good feeling of allowing the player to do/check out things at their leisure, provided they advanced to the next area to add more locations to explore and go back to. Does Xenoblade X seem to you to not hit enough of the "highs" that are possible with a more carefully guided experience/story, but rather, has an abundance of content that doesn't quite reach that "highly satisfying" feel? (I guess that could also apply to the way the story is presented. Like, I did look at some cutscenes where there's lots of standing around and talking, rather than awesome action scenes that drive things forward rather decisively. A Famitsu reviewer mentioned a "slow tempo" and perhaps that is what the reviewer experienced, that they would rather not be subjected to that but instead, have the game "cut to the point." This could be something that is unrelated to the open world vs. linear tradeoff.)

But to evaluate open world games, the question I've felt is best to ask myself is "Do I feel rewarded for taking action?" It could be frustrating if, say, taking action means having to collect random blue crystals rather than, say, finding cool dungeons with contraptions to toy with in an action-adventure, new villages with fresh stories in them, etc., the way that popular open world WRPGs are. That's my curiousity about how reviewers will take to a story and world that forces them to do those things some players loved to hate about Xenoblade's gameplay People did find Xenoblade's gameplay addictive though in total, blue orbs and all, and they loved its world, despite it being light on options to interact more directly with its environment. (Though there was some fun, if janky, platforming, haha)

Proactive exploration tends to be the forte of the best received open world RPGs, yet the abundance of stuff to level up, the joy of seeing numbers go up, a satisfyingly complex battle system, seeing characters lives change through a story, unique art and world design, is what can make a JRPG good. If there are deficiencies in either realm, I wonder if the strengths of the other makes up for it to make a greater sum. That's why I'm so excited for this game, if only to answer that question for myself. It may have been said that Xenoblade addressed deficiencies in JRPGs by incorporating some Western ideas, but this game's structure reminds me so much of Western made games that it might be daring to address deficiencies in WRPGs by incorporating JRPG ideas. (They mentioned how stoic the worlds in WRPGs can feel, for instance.) If the product is received as deficient in both realms though, that would be the risk, yet even if that's the case, because the previous Xenoblade's gameplay was found enjoyable, there should be players who can enjoy this product in some way still.

I think you hit the nail on the head when it comes to how most people evaluate open world games.

I also agree with what often makes JRPGs good in relation to their western counterparts. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's particularly proficient in those elements, either. The structure is certainly there, with the normal quests and kizuna quests, to really flesh out the world and characters over time, but I think the cast of party members available in the base game is... well... just not very good at all. A bunch of annoying walking stereotypes outside of a few instances and not many of them have revealed any depth in 40 hours of play (and only two more story quests left), but I obviously haven't played their kizuna quests to completion.

I wrote it earlier, but by far the most interesting content in the game so far has been with the normal quests, which feature some really interesting stories that actually deal with complex issues in certain cases. Many of them are multi-part and take a long time to complete. They're very cool, but they also have the lowest production values. No voice acting, little to no cutscene direction, and just reading text for the most part. I almost wish they had focused their resources on these quests over the main story, which has been terribly underwhelming for me and I'm 83% through them all. It kind of peaked for me at Chapter 4, which showed a lot of potential for where the story might go, but it's just been kind of dragging its feet since then. Worse part is that I think I can already see what the game's big twist or reveal is going to be. I hope my suspicions are betrayed, of course.

 

[TheMoon]

Guys, be nice. Don't make Elma mad!

 

[Vena]

On the other hand, your zealotry in defense of a game you've yet to even play comes off as a bit odd to me, so opinions and all that.

This is probably true, though not really intended. I'll apologize either way since it wasn't what I meant it to be like.

All the same I have people (well now its three since a couple of others have the game) at my ear who tell me that some statements are simply not correct (by their opinion) or peculiar sounding, especially since I don't have the game at the moment all I can do is talk with friends about what I read or hear, and they'll obviously tell me whether they agree or what their impressions are...

There's really none of that in Xenoblade X. It's an open world (in a truer sense of the word than Dragon Age, for sure) with some neat environments to navigate once you get a flying mech, but there really isn't much of note to find by just wandering around. Unless the various vistas are reward enough for you when it comes to exploration, it's going to feel a bit empty to a lot of people. There are almost no (maybe even zero) NPCs to encounter in the world that kick off any interesting quest chains.

Such as this bold. And its not only the people who have my ear, its people in this very thread who have said much the opposite to this fact. Going out on a quest and ending up at some opposite end of the world ten quests deep on some random adventure they hadn't set out or even intended on doing sounds very different from the bold. Something is making people do this, people here, the guys at 8-4, people on my ear, etc, and it can't be the whole lot of nothingness and "just vistas". (And its not like they disagree with everything, there is definitely a "lots of grind" opinion about some aspect of the game, especially the later Kizuna and max-frame dolls. The person who first got the game (and who's impressions I posted) and powered through over 150+ hours definitely got tired of the later grind, specifically on the frame-60 dolls and upgrades, for example, but her opinion is still utterly glowing of the 150+ hours it took to get there.) There are other points of disagreement too but at this point I'm just parroting what "he said, she said" so its not really of much worth.

So ya... opinions vary a lot it seems.

Edit: Its interesting to listen to the Witcher 3 podcasts and discussions now, very topical on WRPGs/Open World.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Going out on a quest and ending up at some opposite end of the world ten quests deep on some random adventure they hadn't set out or even intended on doing sounds very different from the bold.

This really hasn't been my experience at all.

In general, you simply don't get quests out in the open world. You get almost all of them all in NLA. While you may have multiple quests that take you nearby destinations, in most cases you need to actively switch your tracker over to that other quest to really know.

The kind of scenario you're describing really hasn't happened at all in my 40+ hours with the game and I don't see how it can happen organically given how the game is set up. I know exactly the type of gameplay you're talking about, but it really isn't how this game is set up even if I wish it were.

 

[InternHertz]

I'm at 71.49% according to the gamepad and I may have found my first "well eff' this game this is bullshit" moment that makes me want to stop playing altogether :/

I was tired and saved during a Kizuna quest even though I had said to myself a few minutes before that I wouldn't do that.
So now I'm stuck in that shitty quest, in a shitty cave full of lava, with shitty AI partners that suicide in said lava even if I try to rally them. The boss should be cake but of course because it's a large type he has too much health and deals a lot of damage regardless of the difference in levels.

Unless I get to know good tactics to deal with this crap, I think this will mark, at least, a break in my playthrough.
The worst thing is that I know I'm to blame because I effin' saved when I was not supposed to. If I hadn't done this I would've just reloaded before the quest and tried something else...