Support NeoGAF

[Draff]

I'd definitely support a Kickstarter if that's what it takes to encourage Sega to translate.

 

[Asharakk]

Goddammit Sega!!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

They marketed the series multiple times. It sold like shit - that includes Dead Souls AND 4. How hard is this to understand?

They brought over 4 games and only one of them did good. They advertised, just as you wanted, and guess what happened?

The consumers didn't buy it. Also, if you really think marketing somehow solves the problem of people buying the game, you need to look into that stuff just a little bit more.

I'm going to need more than your assurances that they marketed it effectively. Saying "They advertised it, now don't you feel wrong?" doesn't really change that I never actually saw evidence of these advertisements.

 

[Parakeetman]

I'd definitely support a Kickstarter if that's what it takes to encourage Sega to translate.

I think it would be more of a legal mess than Sega would want to even bother with. Seeing how they dont even want to do it the normal way at this point in time, highly doubt anything roundabout would be appealing to them.

I'm going to need more than your assurances that they marketed it effectively. Saying "They advertised it, now don't you feel wrong?" doesn't really change that I never actually saw evidence of these advertisements.

basically my friend who isnt a core gamer, doesnt check gaming websites one day walked into a gamestop and saw the game was out. he was totally surprised and wondered why it wasnt announced more.

wasnt there some sort of stock issue too with the game being hard to find in general with physical copies in brick & mortar retail?

 

[TheSpoiler]

I'd definitely support a Kickstarter if that's what it takes to encourage Sega to translate.

See, this is what we should be discussing in these topics - viable solutions to Sega's issue of interest and money.

Honestly, I would too, if it meant every Kickstarter person who backed a certain amount got a copy of the game. Factor in all the costs and what a profit means for them, and put it out for a few months to see how it catches.

 

[luxarific]

This really bums me out, this is such a fun series of games to play and the characters are great. It's really unfortunate that Sega doesn't feel the likely profits vs. the annoyance/cost of translating are sufficient to port the game. Doesn't surprise me at all though - if they're not bringing over the mainline series, there was little hope for this one.

 

[kuroshiki]

More proof that neogaf doesnt do jack when it comes to sales.

 

[bigkrev]

I think it would be more of a legal mess than Sega would want to even bother with. Seeing how they dont even want to do it the normal way at this point in time, highly doubt anything roundabout would be appealing to them.



basically my friend who isnt a core gamer, doesnt check gaming websites one day walked into a gamestop and saw the game was out. he was totally surprised and wondered why it wasnt announced more.

wasnt there some sort of stock issue too with the game being hard to find in general with physical copies in brick & mortar retail?

I'm dead serious, how would you advertise to this person.

 

[Dysun]

Sega is dead to me

 

[Parakeetman]

I'm dead serious, how would you advertise to this person.

dont know, dont care as it isnt my job. DEAD SERIOUS.

Sega should know that the audience that they want to reach isnt the core fans as they would already be following the news about it. This is where marketing puts in a little more effort besides thinking a few banners on a website will do jack shit.

 

[jbug617]

Which one?

It was Verendus

 

[polyh3dron]

THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR NOT BUYING 10 COPIES OF DEAD SOULS

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Oh, hey guys, don't worry...the purchase of Atlus by Sega won't be detrimental to localization or anything, right? Right?

 

[TheSpoiler]

I'm going to need more than your assurances that they marketed it effectively. Saying "They advertised it, now don't you feel wrong?" doesn't really change that I never actually saw evidence of these advertisements.

You didn't see it. That's fine. I'm not going to spend my entire day searching Google when you can see for yourself. It wasn't COD level, but it had sections in magazines, trailers, and a demo for each game. Sony even advertised it on their blog during Dead Souls' release.

Can't speak to Y4 though.

Not that adverts could have changed that much for a niche title.

Oh, hey guys, don't worry...the purchase of Atlus by Sega won't be detrimental to localization or anything, right? Right?

And that's where I'm done with this topic.

 

[Parakeetman]

Which one?

In terms of announcements, it definitely appealed more to me than Gamescom did. And that's obviously not even everything out of SCEJ.

Yeah, I can see that. There were a fair few announcements even if SCE weren't as present.

Verendus....TLG....quell the unease man...what's happening on that front?

Alive and well. I would just keep it out of mind so when it does happen, you can go batshit insane.

Also bonus for Yakuza fans, this one is coming to the West. I can see the 'but that doesn't make sense' thoughts already but just believe. It's happening.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=80801349&postcount=6142

Oh, hey guys, don't worry...the purchase of Atlus by Sega won't be detrimental to localization or anything, right? Right?

Things like company acquisitions wouldnt even be in the same "budget" as game localization. So highly doubt it has anything to do with it.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Sega, I have a point that you cannot refute when it comes to this title being released in the west...

C'moooooooon.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Is verendus the guy that says that FF7 remake will happen?

 

[Kalamoj]

So sad...
Is there child prostitution or any other like that in Ishin? If not, I think Ishin is well suited for a low season release. Especially on a new console with a few games available.
A really dumb move, it was (imho) their best chance.

 

[CoffeeKillquest]

I'll try to give you a very vague idea of what I would probably charge as a freelancer if I was contracted to do a game like Yakuza. Let's take a look at this now increasingly cliche image that puts into perspective the word and character counts for the first three Trails in the Sky games. I'm fairly certain a Yakuza game isn't quite that wordy, but they're definitely up there, so we'll just use the Trails in the Sky figures as a rough estimate since it's difficult to directly ascertain character counts for a Yakuza game as someone not actually working on one.



I can't speak for salaried employees like (I assume) people who work at Atlus, as I've never worked for them, but for a typical text-based freelancing job, I normally charge somewhere in the neighborhood of $0.05 USD to $0.10 USD per Japanese character depending on the volume of the work and the nature of it. These are pretty standard rates for people that actually want to be able to feed themselves. Often times it goes on the lower end of the scale because the sheer volume of work I might get from a given client is enough to just outright offer them that sort of discounted rate to ensure I have work coming in, especially since I'm pretty good about getting stuff done in a timely manner, but sometimes it hits the higher end, especially if it's a smaller one-off job where I really do need to maximize my revenue in the short term to make it worth my time to work on that versus other work.

If a game like Yakuza were to clock in at the first Trails in the Sky's 1.5 million characters and I was (somewhat implausibly) asked to do it by myself, that job could cost Sega $75,000 if I charge them at that minimum $0.05 USD per word. That might look pretty high, especially considering that, again, a Yakuza game probably isn't that wordy. So let's maintain that $0.05 USD rate, but cut the word count by half, down to 750,000 characters. I would probably be at least a little surprised if the figure came in that low, but let's go with it for the sake of simpler math. That's still going to cost Sega $37,500 and, again, that's if we use my lowest normal rate. They can reduce the wait time by throwing more translators at it and giving each individual person less work to do, but it's not like anybody is going to take a serious pay cut in that scenario. It'll ultimately be a matter of several months of, at minimum, eight-hour work days until a sufficient final English script is ready to be submitted. I think I read somewhere that once localization work began on Yakuza 3, the proper translation process took something like 9 months. If we use that $37,500 figure, this amounts to about $4100 a month and if you've got at least two translators working on it, which is likely, that means you're paying them about $2050. That's hardly ideal, but I guess not entirely out of the question depending on who's being hired. I've definitely been undercut before by especially cheap translators that emphasize sheer speed over a quality bar that at least precludes coherence.

Now you might be thinking to yourself that Sega can make back those translation costs by just selling a few thousand copies. But as I and Parakeetman have been saying, translators aren't the only people you need to pay in order to bring a localization to market. Somebody also has to be paid to transplant that English script back into the game, which can still be a bit of an ordeal as some companies still don't plan ahead for localizations while developing the base game. After all, game localizations don't just entail changing the text to a Latin script, but they also routinely include graphic edits (e.g.: menu options, etc.) and technical modifications to account for the logistics of how that Latin script is processed and rendered differently in a computer compared to an Asian one like Japanese (e.g.: changing the byte type for character encoding, font kerning, etc.). Then somebody (or more like multiple people) has to be paid to test the English version of the game to make sure the localization didn't break something and if something does break, which is to be expected, then either the translator and other the other production members involved have to be brought in to fix things, whether the solution requires a script modification, glitch fix, or something else entirely. That process continues and everyone involves obviously keeps getting paid to work on it as necessary. Then after all of that, you get to pay for the certification process with Sony or whichever console maker you're working with and then if you still have money after all that, you get to pay for publishing and distribution to actually get it into the hands of the public. Bear in mind that even if you go completely digital, the console makers are likely still going to take a cut for every purchase made on their digital store and if they have technical requirements like drafting up an electronic manual, somebody has to be paid to go and make those things too before the game can come out. Also note that I haven't even included the costs of hiring voice actors or licensing the original Japanese assets to reuse them overseas as the Yakuza games normally do, neither of which is going to be particularly cheap on top of everything else that actually has to be done to make a game localization functional and playable.

None of those people involved in all of that work are going to be willing to do their respective jobs for free out of the kindness of their hearts, even if they want to help bring those games over as badly as the foreign fans want to play them. Again, everyone has to get paid enough to be able to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads. As I've hopefully shown with a translator, it's not that hard to be pushing survivability issues once your rate is at a low enough figure and they're only one part of a much bigger equation. A lot of those other people in addition to the translators are probably getting paid full-time salaried wages, so it's pretty easy to see the overall budget for a localization ballooning to be at least several times just what the translators alone cost.

Again, it's hard to know the specific costs for a game like Yakuza without actually being involved and there's definitely some back and forth in terms of overall payment and completion timelines as a freelance translator because both sides are interested in getting the work done. But they each have their own needs that have to be addressed in order to undertake the work comfortably and satisfying those needs gets pricey fast.

Hopefully my insight helps a little!

This was really interesting to know thank you for informing me on the process of localisation.

 

[bigkrev]

dont know, dont care as it isnt my job. DEAD SERIOUS.

Sega should know that the audience that they want to reach isnt the core fans as they would already be following the news about it. This is where marketing puts in a little more effort besides thinking a few banners on a website will do jack shit.

So Sega should have put TV ads out? Giant Billboards? Big ads on Websites like ESPN?

Do you realize only games that the publisher has hopes of selling millions get this treatment?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

SEGA: Fuck you Gaijins.

Ahahahahaha.

 

[bboymaestro]

Sega confirmed to hate/fear Western money. This has to be some sick joke involving old World War II crimes or some shit. Sega just doesn't like other markets.

 

[Crazymoogle]

I just wish Sega hadn't made the classic mistake of putting the western future of a series on the back of a spinoff. It's a terrible strategy for igniting interest in the mainline series. Didn't work for Capcom with Phoenix Wright and it didn't work here.

Anyway, goodbye dear Yakuza. Go have a great time in the cardboard box with Retro Game Challenge and your philosophical brothers (Ridge Racer, Ace Combat...)

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Don't these games sell like dog sht in the west?

 

[Null&Void]

Well, it was nice knowing you Sega. Goodbye.

 

[Astarte]

Now my idol adventures will never continue. Sega, please.

 

[Coxy]

The argument about whether it sells enough or not is irrelevant. They didnt stop localising this series because of its sales. They stopped EVERYTHING in favour of Aliens Colonial Marines. DOZENS of games were cancelled because of that piece of shit. Sega were so fully scammed by that game that they put everything on it and it bombed.

I'm not sure any game in history has ever killed so many other projects. Everyone blaming everything else but the $60m elephant in the room that was literally a scam is ridiculous.

 

[Parakeetman]

Now my idol adventures will never continue. Sega, please.

 

[TheKaeptain]

hahahahaha I fucking love Cruising.

 

[HyperBitHero]

I own the game, but I want to play it in english!

 

[Astarte]

Holy shit Haruka

 

[Uthred]

Oh, hey guys, don't worry...the purchase of Atlus by Sega won't be detrimental to localization or anything, right? Right?

But it hasnt been detrimental, its remained exactly the same, unless you live in some magic reality where SEGA localised Yakuza 5?

 

[CartridgeBlower]

For people who have played both, what's the better game to import Y5 or Ishin? I've played every game in the series up to 4.

 

[SmugFox]

Sayonara Sega!

 

[Parakeetman]

For people who have played both, what's the better game to import Y5 or Ishin? I've played every game in the series up to 4.

well obviously if you played all 4 games why wouldnt you want to start with 5 first?

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Why wouldn't they bring it outside Japan? They don't like money or something?

 

[Redx508]

100% how i feel

 

[Parakeetman]

Holy shit Haruka

lol gaf killed the gif

*edit

aaaaaaaaaaaand its back

 

[Paracelsus]

Pepsiman: thanks for the insight, those seem numbers doable via kickstart in a matter of days though, even including some stretch bonus like "send Pepsiman to a polynesian resort after he's done with the project".

How come is the kickstart subject taboo when dealing with translations?

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

Will it work if we run a Twitter campaign bugging Sega?

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

Also, Crunchyroll translates tons of anime every week to what I guess is a very niche audience. How worse translating a Yakuza game could be?

 

[RobbieNick]

Was ANYONE actually expecting that one to reach Stateside?! If Yakuze 5 wouldn't , then why would a Yakuza in ancient Japan that's even more enriched in Japanese culture have a chance?

 

[Parakeetman]

Pepsiman: thanks for the insight, those seem numbers doable via kickstart in a matter of days though, even including some stretch bonus like "send Pepsiman to a polynesian resort after he's done with the project".

How come is the kickstart subject taboo when dealing with translations?

Because game localization is more than just translations. Just because translations are finished in no way shape or form does that mean sega will magically say OH WHY SURE.
As there is all the work that goes into putting that into said game along with everything else after that which basically is what Pepsiman also explained. All of which costs money.

Also, Crunchyroll translates tons of anime every week to what I guess is a very niche audience. How worse translating a Yakuza game could be?

lol sorry yeah Im not even going to bother answering this one past saying, you really think you can compare slapping subtitles onto a video file to localizing a game?

Was ANYONE actually expecting that one to reach Stateside?! If Yakuze 5 wouldn't , then why would a Yakuza in ancient Japan that's even more enriched in Japanese culture have a chance?

Because the game has no real connection to the previous titles it works as a stand alone product. Those who know whos who with all the cameos big plus for them, those who dont its not big loss as stated its not connected to the main line story, therefore as a product acting as a catalyst for driving sales of the original series it works better than releasing 5 which would only attract those who have been playing through the series.

They really fucked up a good chance here if this does turn out to be true after E3 and no word on the game.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Was ANYONE actually expecting that one to reach Stateside?! If Yakuze 5 wouldn't , then why would a Yakuza in ancient Japan that's even more enriched in Japanese culture have a chance?

Because samurai stuff is easier to sell than "it's basically GTA with a bunch of Japanese people." And because the competition Sega would face on the PS4 is tumbleweed.

 

[FiveMinuteHero]

Because game localization is more than just translations. Just because translations are finished in no way shape or form does that mean sega will magically say OH WHY SURE.
As there is all the work that goes into putting that into said game along with everything else after that which basically is what Pepsiman also explained. All of which costs money.



lol sorry yeah Im not even going to bother answering this one past saying, you really think you can compare slapping subtitles onto a video file to localizing a game?

Yeah, it shouldn't be an after thought. If the translation is placed during the making of the game it probably wouldn't be more complicated than "slapping" it in.

 

[Yaqoub]

This sucks, but I guess it's easy to see coming...

I'm currently enjoying it a ton with KHHsubs's guide.

 

[ShogunDarius]

the amount of times a company says "no plans" and then do something is uncountable so that interview means nothing imo

 

[DXLelouch153]

hopefully Sony force their hands
with money

 

[SolidusDave]

It was Verendus

Yeah I remember him not even just hinting at it but flat out assuring everyone that it will get localized

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Yeah I remember him not even just hinting at it but flat out assuring everyone that it will get localized

I missed the comments from Verendus, did he/she say that both this and Y5 would be localised or just Y5 with people hoping/assuming this would be as well?