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[Guled]

I've just gotten off a 12 hour shift at midnight, and I start bartending again at 7:30am. I started reading this thread on the bus home, and I had to stop because I literally would not be able to sleep if I let the cheapskate douchebags here get to me, but right now I just have to say this... Serving and bartending is no more "just carrying a plate to people or handing them a bottle" than prostitution is "just lying in a bed with your legs in the air". You are selling a part of your soul.

And for the fucken record:
- I am Australian
- I live in Toronto
- I think the non North American system of paying a living minimum wage to everyone is much much much better than the way the US and Canada operate.
- This is never an excuse not to tip in the US or Canada.
- If you ever leave less than 10% on a bill, or tip less than $1 a drink, you are a bad customer. No ifs ands or buts.
- Bad things happen to bad customers. Hope you don't leave anything behind, come back to that establishment again, or come back to an establishment that employee moves on to. People move around a lot in this industry.
- If you really have a bad experience, and I'm not talking about not getting the proper number of fucken refilled pops your fat arse believes it is entitled to for $2.50, talk to a goddamn manager. That way something will actually get done about the problem
- I bartend and wait to pay bills, I am a semi-professional standup comedian. Ha motherfucking ha.


Jesus, I fucken swore to myself I wasn't going to reply to this shit... Fuck...

people like you is part of the reason why I never tip (unless they do a much better then avg job)

They're entitled to fair compensation for a job well done. With any luck they won't have to serve too many cheap customers.

your right, they do deserve fair compensation. But it should be the responsibility of the employer not the customer. If they won't give you fair compensation, forcing the customer is not the way to go. There are lots of other jobs out there that you could get min wage in

 

[KHarvey16]

your right, they do deserve fair compensation. But it should be the responsibility of the employer not the customer. If they won't give you fair compensation, forcing the customer is not the way to go. There are lots of other jobs out there that you could get min wage in

Do you live in North America?

 

[Guled]

Do you live in North America?

Canada, Toronto specifically.

 

[Mik2121]

Other jobs at least pay minimum wage everywhere. If you do actually live in a country where this is not true and servers earn a decent living without tips, as powerCAPS has said I have no idea why the hell you'd participate in this discussion.

I participate because it's always fun. It's not like this is the first time I get into the tipping discussions

And where I live, when I worked as a waiter I got paid, in USD, about $9, which is the minimum wage but it's so minimum you can hardly live with that. Almost every other job get paid more, but if I worked there was because I couldn't work anywhere else so that's my problem. Of course, if it's a better restaurant and the server has much more experience, he will get paid more. I guess it's the same in the US?.

Again, if the service is good I will of course give him some extra tip. Hell, I've even tipped some people here where I live, even if they barely know the concept of tipping (outside of seeing it in American movies), just because they did an excellent service.

 

[KHarvey16]

Canada, Toronto specifically.

The cost will always be paid by the customer. Whether they pay $3 and hour and you tip or they pay $10 an hour and they charge more for food, you will pay.

 

[powerCAPS]

people like you is part of the reason why I never tip (unless they do a much better then avg job)

And people like you are the reason why I never feel bad doing bad things to people like you.

 

[Mik2121]

And people like you are the reason why I never feel bad doing bad things to people like you.

And you talked about bad customers? You are just a shitty bartender.

 

[powerCAPS]

Canada, Toronto specifically.

Ahahaha. Awesome.

 

[KHarvey16]

I participate because it's always fun. It's not like this is the first time I get into the tipping discussions

And where I live, when I worked as a waiter I got paid, in USD, about $9, which is the minimum wage but it's so minimum you can hardly live with that. Almost every other job get paid more, but if I worked there was because I couldn't work anywhere else so that's my problem. Of course, if it's a better restaurant and the server has much more experience, he will get paid more. I guess it's the same in the US?.

Again, if the service is good I will of course give him some extra tip. Hell, I've even tipped some people here where I live, even if they barely know the concept of tipping (outside of seeing it in American movies), just because they did an excellent service.

In the future you need to mention you are from a country where tipping is not customary. Otherwise it very much looks like baiting.

 

[powerCAPS]

And you talked about bad customers? You are just a shitty bartender.

Hey, I'm just like you. Trying to fight the system through negative reinforcement. High five.

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

The cost will always be paid by the customer. Whether they pay $3 and hour and you tip or they pay $10 an hour and they charge more for food, you will pay.

The funny thing is I think that would be preferable to many people. I think people have a problem with paying more than what is on the bill. If it is there on the bill in the form of higher food prices, the whole argument of tipping or not tipping becomes a moot point.

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think we should be putting any blame with those who choose not to tip or those who choose to work in these low paying jobs. I think the blame should be placed fairly and squarely with the authorities who allow a system such as this exist. For a modern, first world country, this system of paying under minimum wage and expecting the customer to make up the rest surely seems quite absurd to me. Are there any other countries (first world countries that is) that have such a unfair system?

It's such a moronic thing to take a moral stance on. The fact is that waiters and waitresses do make (well) under the minimum wage in the U.S., and if you're going to go out to a restaurant, then tip them. If you don't want to tip, then take your cheap ass on over to a fucking drive-thru, where you don't have to tip. If you can afford to dine out, you can afford to shell a few extra dollars for the guy making $3/hr bringing you your food.

It's a really sad state of affairs when some believe that the waiter should head directly to the "authorities" or the government, as if he's somehow going to be heard and that it will magically reverse an entire wage system. I'm so glad I've never had to work a job like that, with all these cheap fucks around.

 

[Guled]

The cost will always be paid by the customer. Whether they pay $3 and hour and you tip or they pay $10 an hour and they charge more for food, you will pay.

I would have no problem if costs went up 15% and they gave them min wage. Its the principle I have a problem with, not the fact I have to pay more

And people like you are the reason why I never feel bad doing bad things to people like you.

But I'm this way because of people like you, you shouldn't be in the service industry at all if this is the way you act.

 

[KHarvey16]

The funny thing is I think that would be preferable to many people. I think people have a problem with paying more than what is on the bill. If it is there on the bill in the form of higher food prices, the whole argument of tipping or not tipping becomes a moot point.

Like I said previously, I've never eaten with anyone who didn't want to tip. Reasonable, intelligent people don't have a problem with it.

 

[Mik2121]

Hey, I'm just like you. Trying to fight the system through negative reinforcement. High five.

You are just being a horrible bartender. Shut up.

It's not my problem if you work somewhere where they pay you under minimum wage. That's a problem with the bar/restaurant or wherever you work. Then again, wanting to work somewhere where they won't pay you even minimum wage seems like a not very clever idea, so I guess I should stop discussing with you

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

It's such a moronic thing to take a moral stance on. The fact is that waiters and waitresses do make (well) under the minimum wage in the U.S., and if you're going to go out to a restaurant, then tip them. If you don't want to tip, then take your cheap ass on over to a fucking drive-thru, where you don't have to tip. If you can afford to dine out, you can afford to shell a few extra dollars for the guy making $3/hr bringing you your food.

It's a really sad state of affairs when some believe that the waiter should head directly to the "authorities" or the government, as if he's somehow going to be heard and that it will magically reverse an entire wage system. I'm so glad I've never had to work a job like that, with all these cheap fucks around.

North America is pretty much the only place a system like this exists. Either N.A has it wrong or the rest of the world do.

And I was not taking a high moral stand against it. Just questioning why it happens.

 

[Narag]

Hey, I'm just like you. Trying to fight the system through negative reinforcement. High five.

Reading stuff like that makes me regret tipping at all. I always leave a tip, diminished if service is poor, but its entirely irresponsible of you to demand a tip by putting a customer under duress with the notion of "tip of me or else."

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

Like I said previously, I've never eaten with anyone who didn't want to tip. Reasonable, intelligent people don't have a problem with it.

Would you continue to tip if you lived in a country where it was not expected?

 

[Door2Dawn]

Shut up.

you shut up!

 

[malek4980]

Chosen lifestyle. As indicated in the stats report, most minimum wage earners in Canada are women, then youths, then senior citizens. Most also live with their parents and boast little to no education, and over 60% of minimum wage workers do so part-time.

So you've in proportion you've got women with little to no education, young people paying for an education, in trasition to high school or dropouts, or senior citizens who need something to do or apparently saved nothing for retirement.

Students and Seniors make due with tax credits, women can do so if they have children and are otherwise homemakers (which is likely the case for such a high female representation and the high incidence of part-time workers).

So the question is, why should they have to be paid more in addition to the minimum wage and other social benefits already accorded to them for being at the very bottom? What is so special about this demographic?

So the minimum wage is high enough because most minimum wage earners tend to be women, seniors, and young people? How is a person's sex or age relevant to how much they ought to make?

One of the reasons why so many minimum wage earners live with their parents, as you mentioned, or with someone else is because they can't afford to rent their own places while making such low incomes.

I really think you're overrating tax credits. As a low income-earner, I've never received more than a couple hundreds dollars worth of GST credits.

 

[KHarvey16]

Would you continue to tip if you lived in a country where it was not expected?

If they were paid a fair wage I would just tip for service that was above and beyond, sure.

 

[powerCAPS]

I would have no problem if costs went up 15% and they gave them min wage. Its the principle I have a problem with, not the fact I have to pay more

But I'm this way because of people like you, you shouldn't be in the service industry at all if this is the way you act.

I thought you were this way because of the principle, not because you've had bad service? Regardless, this is the way the service industry is. It doesn't really matter what you think. You are paying for service, and if you don't pay, you are going to get bad service. If you're lucky it will just be your server/bartender ignoring you next time you come back to a place. If you piss off the wrong server, and I know plenty of people in many Toronto bars and restaurants like this, they will fuck with you, and you probably won't even notice. So my advice to you is to watch the movie "Waiting" and take heed of the line "don't fuck with people who handle your food".

 

[Mik2121]

I guess if I was born in the US I would see the whole tipping thing differently, but damn.. I just can't see the reason why I'm expected to tip.

Kinda funny because where I live now, tipping is usually something rude, because it makes the waiter feel like he should be paid more to get his job done.
That's why I only pay when they know I'm not doing it because of that (usually on 'international' restaurants or otherwise, and mostly because I'm a foreigner and they probably think I'm just used to it, lol).

you shut up!

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

If they were paid a fair wage I would just tip for service that was above and beyond, sure.

Would you tip for service above and beyond at the supermarket/newsagent/drug store?

 

[KHarvey16]

Would you tip for service above and beyond at the supermarket/newsagent/drug store?

I don't even know what kind of opportunity there is for that in those cases.

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

I don't even know what kind of opportunity there is for that in those cases.

Couldn't you just say "Thanks for your extra effort. Here's a little something for you." I don't really see the difference.

 

[malek4980]

Couldn't you just say "Thanks for your extra effort. Here's a little something for you." I don't really see the difference.

We don't live and work free from societal expectations. If you tip workers not used to getting tips, they might get angry or embarrassed or their employers might become displeased.

 

[Narag]

I don't even know what kind of opportunity there is for that in those cases.

Eggs and bread bagged properly. A few extra painkillers in your prescription.

Spoiler

I've no idea either.

 

[KHarvey16]

Couldn't you just say "Thanks for your extra effort. Here's a little something for you." I don't really see the difference.

I can't really think of an instance where a person working at any of those places would go above and beyond. I mean, I guess if I were elderly and someone loaded bags of groceries in my car for me or something. That's definitely tip worthy.

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

Eggs and bread bagged properly. A few extra painkillers in your prescription.

Spoiler

I've no idea either.

You ask the deli staff at Safeway to slice your ham a particular way and they do it to your liking. Surely they deserve something extra. No?

 

[Rezbit]

Ugh I'm glad I live in a place that doesn't expect tipping. It's so confusing!

 

[Guled]

I thought you were this way because of the principle, not because you've had bad service? Regardless, this is the way the service industry is. It doesn't really matter what you think. You are paying for service, and if you don't pay, you are going to get bad service. If you're lucky it will just be your server/bartender ignoring you next time you come back to a place. If you piss off the wrong server, and I know plenty of people in many Toronto bars and restaurants like this, they will fuck with you, and you probably won't even notice. So my advice to you is to watch the movie "Waiting" and take heed of the line "don't fuck with people who handle your food".

you really really shouldn't be working with people at all. You chose this job, you knew the advantages/disadvantages. I'm paying for the food, a tip is a tip, its not curtain. You really should be taking out on your employer who pays you shit and not the customers who have and should have no responsibility in paying your salary. Like I said, part of why I don't tip is principle, but the other part is because of people like you. I hardly eat out a lot so I don't worry about what they'll do to my food next time.

 

[Mik2121]

I can't really think of an instance where a person working at any of those places would go above and beyond. I mean, I guess if I were elderly and someone loaded bags of groceries in my car for me or something. That's definitely tip worthy.

Say you go to some supermarket and you can't find something or you don't wanna spend much time searching because you are on a rush. You ask some of the people working there and they stop doing whatever they were doing to take you to the stand where they have what you are looking for.

Then when you go to pay, it's that same person (if it's an small supermarket or some drug store, chances of being the same person are higher), you'd give him some tip?

 

[powerCAPS]

Reading stuff like that makes me regret tipping at all. I always leave a tip, diminished if service is poor, but its entirely irresponsible of you to demand a tip by putting a customer under duress with the notion of "tip of me or else."

Look, if you leave a roughly 10% tip on bad service, servers generally take that in their stride and move on. Servers know when they provide bad service, for whatever reason, and adjust their expectations accordingly. And you know what, if the restaurant is swamped, and the server has 12 tables, and you had different people taking your drink and food order, and it gets screwed up, and no one fixes it, fine... leave no tip. Your server wouldn't remember you anyhow, and I doubt anyone would really hold that against you. But if you leave nothing on perfectly adequate service, or a bad tip on good service, why would your server do anything to help you next time you come back to that establishment? Especially if you leaving them nothing actually costs them money, as they have to tip out on their sales regardless of their tips. They are now paying to work for you. Fuck that shit.

 

[Divvy]

I thought you were this way because of the principle, not because you've had bad service? Regardless, this is the way the service industry is. It doesn't really matter what you think. You are paying for service, and if you don't pay, you are going to get bad service.

Uhh no, they are rewarding you for good service. The payment of the service itself is included in the price of the meal or drink. The very definition of tipping means that it is not required, irregardless of any ethical quandaries so it should never be demanded of a customer. You can try to spin your sleazy threat of "gimme a gratuity or else" all you want, but in the end, you're just a much of an asshole as the people who don't tip.

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

Say you go to some supermarket and you can't find something or you don't wanna spend much time searching because you are on a rush. You ask some of the people working there and they stop doing whatever they were doing to take you to the stand where they have what you are looking for.

Then when you go to pay, it's that same person (if it's an small supermarket or some drug store, chances of being the same person are higher), you'd give him some tip?

See! Mik2121 gets my drift.

 

[Davidion]

Say you go to some supermarket and you can't find something or you don't wanna spend much time searching because you are on a rush. You ask some of the people working there and they stop doing whatever they were doing to take you to the stand where they have what you are looking for.

Then when you go to pay, it's that same person (if it's an small supermarket or some drug store, chances of being the same person are higher), you'd give him some tip?

Why wouldn't you? If it's too much trouble to them, then you tip him. If it didn't hinder him, you shouldn't have to.

 

[KHarvey16]

should have no responsibility in paying your salary.

As a customer you are exactly the person responsible for paying his salary. Your money becomes his money whether it's through a tip or more expensive food. Just because you don't "see it" if it's included in the cost of the meal doesn't make any fucking difference.

Say you go to some supermarket and you can't find something or you don't wanna spend much time searching because you are on a rush. You ask some of the people working there and they stop doing whatever they were doing to take you to the stand where they have what you are looking for.

Then when you go to pay, it's that same person (if it's an small supermarket or some drug store, chances of being the same person are higher), you'd give him some tip?

Pointing me to the proper aisle is not what I would consider "above and beyond."

 

[Atrus]

So the minimum wage is high enough because most minimum wage earners tend to be women, seniors, and young people? How is a person's sex or age relevant to how much they ought to make?

One of the reasons why so many minimum wage earners live with their parents, as you mentioned, or with someone else is because they can't afford to rent their own places while making such low incomes.

I really think you're overrating tax credits. As a low income-earner, I've never received more than a couple hundreds dollars worth of GST credits.

It is relevant because the demographics show that the people who earn minimum wage are those that want to, or those that have no other choice. It also shows that these same people have less of an economic burden, paid in part by people that make more who pay their share.

In Canada you get a graduated tax rate that see's you pay less in taxes, GST credits, tuition credits, Childcare and Child Benefit, and old age deduction.

Just about the only people who don't get a benefit from working a minimum wage job are men and women who don't pursue an education, and even then, you're economic burden is less because you don't spend as much, incurring less taxes, or purchase assets like land which is continually taxed.

The question remains as to why you should be rewarded further than was already paid because you trapped yourself in a shitty job?

 

[Big-E]

Jesus fuck there are some cheap fuckers in this thread. Hope I would never have to share a meal with any of you guys or people like you.

 

[powerCAPS]

you really really shouldn't be working with people at all. You chose this job, you knew the advantages/disadvantages. I'm paying for the food, a tip is a tip, its not curtain. You really should be taking out on your employer who pays you shit and not the customers who have and should have no responsibility in paying your salary. Like I said, part of why I don't tip is principle, but the other part is because of people like you. I hardly eat out a lot so I don't worry about what they'll do to my food next time.

Whatever man. That's great that you're fighting the good fight. And because of that, whether it's right or wrong, people are fucking with your food.

Especially in Toronto.

 

[Sadako Yamamura]

Pointing me to the proper aisle is not what I would consider "above and beyond."

When I was a manager at EB Games, I would call my regular customers whenever a new game came in that I thought may interest them. Is this "above and beyond"? Would you tip me for that?

 

[Mik2121]

Why wouldn't you?

Because it's... their job?

If they are really nice, and do some extra shit like say, going out of the store to somewhere else so they can get me what I asked for because they ran out of it, I will give them something extra because they were just so awesome, but otherwise not.

And I say that because it happened a few months ago. I went to this convenience store open 24h, at about 4am when they had run out of much of the stuff on the store, and I was already paying when I asked them for something else and they didn't have it. The clerk just left the store and went to another one quite near (it's a big chain store) and got that thing for me. I payed him with a bill and told him to keep the change (about 50% of the price I had to pay) because of all the extra effort. But otherwise, no.

 

[Neverfade]

What really 'chaps my ass' so to speak are the places that don't have waiter type serving and still expect a tip.

Chinese places (the take-out kind, not a buffet style)? Fuck you.
ice cream shops? Fuck you.

Hey Coldstone, take my tip out of the 5 dollar scoop of ice cream you just served me.

 

[Atrus]

Jesus fuck there are some cheap fuckers in this thread. Hope I would never have to share a meal with any of you guys or people like you.

No, it's just that North Americans in particular seem to believe that doing their job entitles them to gratuities and somehow turned the definition of 'Gratuity' into 'Entitlement'.

 

[Guled]

As a customer you are exactly the person responsible for paying his salary. Your money becomes his money whether it's through a tip or more expensive food. Just because you don't "see it" if it's included in the cost of the meal doesn't make any fucking difference.

no, I'm paying the company and the company is responsible for paying their workers. Are you responsible for the mailman's salary because you pay taxes?

Whatever man. That's great that you're fighting the good fight. And because of that, whether it's right or wrong, people are fucking with your food.

Like i said, I hardly eat out so I don't have to worry about that. Next time you are spiting in someone's drink, just know that they probably have a way better job then you and a lot well off, and that they were morally correct in every way to give you jack

 

[agrajag]

In united states, there are jobs where tipping is people's livelihood. At the restaurant where I work (I am a line cook), the hourly wage for the front of the house people is just a formality. If they had to live off that, they'd probably starve to death. However, since they do get tipped and lots of high rollers come to our restaurant, they make inordinately more money than me, which pisses me off. At the end of the day, the people who are directly responsible for making the delicious food you eat are the ones getting shafted.

 

[Mik2121]

Pointing me to the proper aisle is not what I would consider "above and beyond."

So what is it that you consider "above and beyond" for waiters?.

 

[devilhawk]

- If you ever leave less than 10% on a bill, or tip less than $1 a drink, you are a bad customer. No ifs ands or buts.
Jesus, I fucken swore to myself I wasn't going to reply to this shit... Fuck...

I almost always leave 20% tip for waiters and have occasionally left less or more if the service was drastically different from the norm. However, the $1 a drink shit gets on my nerves.

Typically it goes one of two ways, a bartender reaches into an ice chest and grabs a bottle OR I sit and wait 10 minutes for a drink as the bartender helps every chick that walks up and makes and takes several shots with his friends. There is no way I am tipping someone 33%+ for a ~$3 drink.

This doesn't mean I don't tip or that I haven't tipped a bartender well, I just think the $1 tip rule is bogus for many circumstances. The fact that most bars around here have drink prices not ending in .00 don't help.

Though oddly I and most people probably tip less with a tab because we'd normally leave 20%.

 

[Davidion]

Because it's... their job?

If they are really nice, and do some extra shit like say, going out of the store to somewhere else so they can get me what I asked for because they ran out of it, I will give them something extra because they were just so awesome, but otherwise not.

And I say that because it happened a few months ago. I went to this convenience store open 24h, at about 4am when they had run out of much of the stuff on the store, and I was already paying when I asked them for something else and they didn't have it. The clerk just left the store and went to another one quite near (it's a big chain store) and got that thing for me. I payed him with a bill and told them to keep the change because of all the extra effort. But otherwise, no.

Did you read my edit?

So what is it that you consider "above and beyond" for waiters?.

Making my meal outside of the food quality and other factors beyond their control a pleasurable experience.