I was at a japanese restaurant this evening and sat at the sushi bar. I had the option of leaving a four dollar tip, but instead I put half of it in the jar for the sushi chefs. Fuck the common practice of tipping the wait staff but not the actual makers of the food. I understand that under the current system, many waiters depend on tips, but it's a shitty system to begin with. I work with loans at a bank and help customers at my job (among other things) and can either put minimal effort into assisting customers or go out of my way to do a little extra when I don't need to. Where are my tips? Why am I not compensated by the customers directly based on the quality of my assistance? Oh yeah that's right, I'm not working with hamburgers.......what was I thinking.agrajag said:
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Yet another tipping thread...
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Sadako Yamamura said:
Probably not. You initiated contact with me to sell a game.
Guled said:
Say $5 of my taxes went to pay my mail man. If this portion of the tax were abolished and I was asked to just give the mail man $5, I would. It sounds like you'd be upset out of "principle."
Sadako Yamamura
Member
Ah, so there are different levels of above and beyond. If someone offers to help you carry your new T.V to your car parked at the other end of the car park you wouldn't tip because they offered, you didn't ask?KHarvey16 said:
Tkawsome said:
At the restaurant I worked for, 9% of sales were automatically reported to the government & taxed. If we made more than that, we had to include those tips as well. Therefore, if a table didn't tip us, we were still taxed on 9% of their bill. Also, regardless if a table tipped us or not, at least 1% of their bill went to the bartender and 2% to the bussers. Luckily I was a fairly good server and our restaurant was awesome, so it was never an issue.
I forget how much we were paid an hour... like $3.15/hr? By the time taxes were withheld for federal, state, local, social security & medicare, there was usually nothing left over. Everything the restaurant paid us hourly went toward taxes. Those of us without kids/houses/spouses would still owe more taxes when we filed our tax return. themoreyouknow.jpg
TBH, in a perfect world, I'd rather restaurants up their prices by 20% and pay servers accordingly. The servers would probably never see that money, which sucks. Plus a dinner rush only lasts, what, 2 hours? Unless you close or work a double, you only work 4-5 hours in a shift (the most hectic 4-5 hours ever), so you have to try to make the amount of money most people would in a 8 hour shift in half the time, which would be impossible with an hourly wage. It's just a fucked up scenario all around.
I worked at the same place for 5 years, 6 or so shifts a week. I'm 24 years old and can barely be on my feet for more than an hour now. Today I did yardwork for an hour & a half and could barely walk afterward. I'd get home from a shift and my husband would have to carry me in the house. I still can't believe how much my body deteriorated in such a short time frame. God I don't miss that shit. :lol
I'm a waiter at a fairly nice restaurant in my town....and let me just say this.
You suck if you don't tip at all. There are times when a waiter just has a couple bad moments or a really bad night. Sometimes something will slip off your mind, or you'll just go blank on one table. I understand if the server did everything wrong, but atleast give them 5-10%.
I don't think I've ever had a waiter that was so bad I felt he deserves less than 10%. Nine times out of ten you can tell they're either having a really bad night, or are completely swamped.
Also, the worst service isn't when the server forgets things and does a bad job, its when they clearly hate their job and don't care that you can tell. These servers are usually lifers and have been doing it too long, and rarely screw up, and I always tip them atleast 15%, but I'll take missing appetizers or long waits on refills over a depressing server anyday.
As for how I tip...I start at 20% and work my way up or down depending on servers, and I go in dollars, not %. I really can't recall tipping anyone lower than 15%. To most servers that is their paycheck. 15% of their sales. Not to mention the amount of shit you have to tip out to bussers, bartenders, etc...
You suck if you don't tip at all. There are times when a waiter just has a couple bad moments or a really bad night. Sometimes something will slip off your mind, or you'll just go blank on one table. I understand if the server did everything wrong, but atleast give them 5-10%.
I don't think I've ever had a waiter that was so bad I felt he deserves less than 10%. Nine times out of ten you can tell they're either having a really bad night, or are completely swamped.
Also, the worst service isn't when the server forgets things and does a bad job, its when they clearly hate their job and don't care that you can tell. These servers are usually lifers and have been doing it too long, and rarely screw up, and I always tip them atleast 15%, but I'll take missing appetizers or long waits on refills over a depressing server anyday.
As for how I tip...I start at 20% and work my way up or down depending on servers, and I go in dollars, not %. I really can't recall tipping anyone lower than 15%. To most servers that is their paycheck. 15% of their sales. Not to mention the amount of shit you have to tip out to bussers, bartenders, etc...
Mik2121 said:
Exceptionally fast, attentive service. Did I never have to ask to get my drink refilled? If normally offered, did they bring bread out quickly? Did they handle any special requests or problems with the food with a good attitude? Did they offer a nice conversation? Did they make me laugh?
It's completely subjective and entirely unique every time.
KHarvey16 said:
*sigh* I just can't understand your mindset, and this powercaps douche isn't making it easier. If there is any way someone could dissuade me more from tipping, I can't imagine it.
I feel absolutely no obligation to tip - and you can't make me feel guilty about it, nor can you make me fear the repercussions of not tipping.
Where I live, the gap between minimum wage and tip-environment minimum wage is minimal - insignificant enough for me to feel no obligations if service is poor. Maybe in an environment where someone is getting 2 dollars an hour, I would feel more obligated. But luckily that isn't something I need to worry about.
Even after saying all that, I don't think there is anyone in this thread who is 'against' the idea of tipping - who doesn't actually tip. I know I tip 90% of the time. You bring me my water without spilling it on my lap, and my food before it goes cold and that is 15% right there. I wish I didn't feel even that obligated to tip - but for some reason I do.
Really though, I don't know what makes waiters/bartenders... 'special' enough to warrant tips. When a bartender pours me my drink, why is this such the crazy feat that I must give me him additional 1-3 dollars? When the guy working at the book store spends a half an hour helping me decide what the best book for me to read is, is pleasant, and makes my trip a delight - why don't I feel obligated to tip him?
The whole idea is wack, and it makes me sad that I still contribute to the messed up system.
demon said:
Good man. I actually work in an open kitchen and I've gotten tipped a total of two times. One time an elderly couple at a table sent it over with the server. The other time, I got tipped because I helped a lady with some menial front of the house bullshit when we were about to close that the server should've done but didn't.
And here it is. The reason no one has the balls to stand up to this retarded system. When you help customers at a bank, or a shoe store, there's no taking your work into the back room and jizzing into it because you're fed up with a particular customer. Stay classy, you burger flippers.Big-E said:
Well ya I'd pay since they wouldn't be working for the gov anymore. My point was that their company pays them and I pay the company for the meal. In no other industry do I have to pay the wages of the employees. If they do their job and nothing more (like most do) then why should I give a tip. Now if they preformed above and beyond their job they are being paid for, I would give them something extra to show my gratitude (that goes for anything). but in no circumstance is the idea that I should be paying the employees wages just because the company they work for is not acceptable to me.KHarvey16 said:
If they do all that, trust me I would give him a tip, but just because it was an exceptional service. Sadly, most of the restaurants aren't like that (don't know about the US though). Not where I live now, but where I used to live (I'm from Spain), tips is optional and service barely ever like what you posted, so tipping for me was quite rareKHarvey16 said:
).Ya it sucks that the kitchen staff doesn't get paid more tips. I worked in one of the fanciest and most prestiguous kitchens in all of Vancouver with a small kitchen staff. The sous chef who also pretty much ran the place on weekends only got a bout 2% of the tips meaning the servers got most of them and they could easily bring in a grand on a busy night as $100 tips were not uncommon.
Mik2121 said:
No. In your example of the market clerk, their job is to stock and maintain the store. There's absolutely no reason for them to have to go out of their way to get anything for you that they didn't have in the first place. If anything they're doing for you seems to feel like a task that doesn't fit into their daily job description, then there's no reason why they wouldn't deserve a tip.
For whatever reason, customers just tend to assume that a part of the said job description includes "cater to our needs regardless of how inconvenient it is".
Big-E said:
This I don't like. I do feel like chefs deserve at least a little more of the tips than they usually end up with.
Did you think that through? Those are the only two fucking options.Atrus said:
And, anyway, no one works for the minimum by choice. "No, I'd rather earn less. No the minimum is enough--put your money away."
Do you not believe in progressive tax rates? Do you think people who can barely make any money should be paying the same rates as the rich?Atrus said:
Tuition deductions, child benefits, and old age deductions are not just available to minimum wage earners.
Maybe the federal and provincial governments provide these benefits, which you're greatly exaggerating, because employers don't provide them with living wages.Atrus said:
And is your expectation that everyone will peruse a higher education? Is this a reasonable expectation to have for every single person? No it's not. Some people may not be university material or they rather work with their hands. If they work hard, why should they be throw under the bus?
This is you being circular once again. Why do you think people who earn less spend less?Atrus said:
Not everyone gets to choose the situation they're in.Atrus said:
VPhys said:
I'm not gonna hold my breath
.Guled said:
I don't know why this is hard to understand. You are going to pay them whether you tip them or you pay more for your food. The money doesn't magically appear. Either you pay the waiter a tip directly or you pay the restaurant who then pays the waiter. There is absolutely no difference to you.
Big-E said:
Actually, in Alberta and most any restaurant I visit in Canada it isn't a fucking big deal. Everyone gets a minimum wage + tips and we don't have that atrocious 'Trickle Down' economics that happens in the states where they pay you nothing and expect tips to carry you up to minimum wage.
Outside of Canada, there are people who will do a better job than anyone here will ever do but aren't allowed to take tips and get paid less for the same amount of work you do, and may at times sleep 10 to a room because the owners of the restaraunt are exploiting cheap immigrant labor in said countries.
I'm not going to cry about someones pitiful sense of entitlement. As far as I'm concerned, I'm already paying a hell of a lot more taxes, and thus contributing my fair share of the economic burden derived from earning more.
It's not my fault said people chose this vocation or trapped themselves in it.
Sadako Yamamura
Member
Yes I am trying to sell you a game but I am also trying my best to make sure you are a happy customer like the waiters and waitresses.KHarvey16 said:
Davidion said:
Nah, 24 hours convenience store sometimes run out of some stock and it's not the clerk problem, because they just have to wait until the truck comes with the newer stock. If for some reason that day they sold much more and run out of stock, going out of the store and getting something I was asking for is quite out of their daily job description
Atrus said:
You have the most fucking retarded sense of entitlement I have ever seen. It must be comfortable knowing that scores of people think that you are cheap. I love your last line too "It's not my fault said people chose this vocation or trapped themselves in it". The amount of retardation in that one line is difficult to comprehend.
There is no reason why I should give a tip to someone who is just doing their job, not matter how low they get paid for it. That doesn't effect me, its their problem, not mine. I should just pay whats on my billKHarvey16 said:
you get paid 8.60 and you get tips, get the fuck out of herepowerCAPS said:
Mik2121 said:Nah, 24 hours convenience store sometimes run out of some stock and it's not the clerk problem, because they just have to wait until the truck comes with the newer stock. If for some reason that day they sold much more and run out of stock, going out of the store and getting something I was asking for is quite out of their daily job description
And that's the thing. Most stores (or even restaurants) that sell out of stock will not go out of their way to obtain more product.
Mik2121 said:If they do all that, trust me I would give him a tip, but just because it was an exceptional service. Sadly, most of the restaurants aren't like that (don't know about the US though). Not where I live now, but where I used to live (I'm from Spain), tips is optional and service barely ever like what you posted, so tipping for me was quite rare
Just saw this. That's pretty nuts; here in New York restaurant service that's at least decent will consists of all the things that he mentioned, on a regular basis.
I'm beginning to see why YOU don't tip. :lol
Anyways
What's funny about the tipping debate is that tipping is one of the, if not the last, direct methods of merit-based compensation and progressive taxation left in western society. It's funny to see how many people don't participate in it out of "principle". I'm often left to wonder what said principles are.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I'm pretty sure we all agree this is how it should be done, but it's not, so deal with it.Guled said:
The counter argument is that when tips are on bills, everyone gets pissed off anyway. Look at any discussion about delivery service or gratuity charges.
The real truth is that a lot of people are just cheap fucks.
a tip shouldn't be expected, a tip is a tip. Its a messed up system, there is no reason why I should give them a tip unless they do above and beyond whats required, especially if they make 8.60 an hourKHarvey16 said:
I shouldn't deal with it, its the people who agreed to get a job that pays less then min wage that should deal with itLiu Kang Baking A Pie said:
That's why I said I gave him extra money when he did that for meDavidion said:
Davidion said:
Yeah, I guess if in NY all places are like that and I enjoy the service enough, I would give them some tip. But not because it's 'expected', but because I want to.
You said it. It's a direct method of merit-based compensation. That means if someone does an extraordinary job, he deserves the tip. Then why is it EXPECTED for people to give tips ALWAYS?.Davidion said:
Kinitari said:
1. There shouldn't be any obligation. I've made my stance on that perfectly clear earlier in the thread. Flip side: how many people who won't tip ONLY won't if they received poor service?
2. Almost isn't minimum wage. I can't speak on that angle simply because the system in the US is as is. If I lived elsewhere where the system is completely different, then behaviors and expectations would change.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
A tip is expected. If the service is poor enough that you just can't tip because it isn't deserved, talk to the manager about how it sucked.Guled said:
So yes, you should deal with it. Tips are figured into their pay and that's why they make so little without them. Tips are their real paycheck that the employer assumes they will receive from customers that aren't cheap asses. By your suggestion, anyone making $15 an hour should just deal with it when their employer pays them $10 an hour, because hey, they shouldn't have agreed to get that job, right? It doesn't make any sense how you can think that way.
there is people here who thinks you should give a tip for getting even bad service, I shouldn't have to guess what they think its appropriateKHarvey16 said:
the thing is a tip shouldn't be expected. And there is no reason why I should deal with it. Either they give me a reason to tip or get a new jobLiu Kang Baking A Pie said:
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