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[Chairman Tickles]

This reminds me of something very relevant in history: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-12139150

 

[F0rneus]

The more I think about this case, the more I think it's frightening on it's implications about free speech. Freaking jail time over a Youtube joke video. Hate crime charge even. Was the video stupid? Yes. Was it offensive? Yes. Does this hate crime charge brings up awful implications about restrictions on speech? Yes.

This should have been laughed outta the court room. Distasteful jokes should not warrant arrest. Ever. I've done my research on the guy, and at worse all he was doing was a shitty joke to offend his girlfriend. Hate crime.

 

[DiscoJer]

Bear in mind, 30 years ago, Mel Brooks had a comedy song, The Hitler Rap. It was a top 20 hit.

 

[Mohonky]

I mean, I haven't watched the video, but the joke is pretty vile and shouldn't have been broadcasted publicly or even made. Gassing the Jews isn't particularly funny.

That was the context of the joke. He said his gf thinks the dog is perfect so he wanted to teach it something so far opposite of perfect just to wind her up.

Then he uploaded it so a few of his mates could have a laugh but it went viral; it wasnt intended to be for mass consumption.

The scary part is, some comedians have said much worse things, this opens up a whole new legal precedent for them to be afraid of.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Maybe this 22-year-old clip from a movie is relevant again.

Hilarious that the offense police are on the level of Clarence Thomas and Anthony Scalia when it comes to moral policing.

Shit, is the entirety of "The Producers" now a thought crime?

 

[StrikeNinja24]

I mean, I guess it's a crime against comedy? Wasn't particularly entertaining or witty at all, but nothing to get arrested over. He's just coming off as a shitty person.

 

[infinitys_7th]

I mean, I guess it's a crime against comedy? Wasn't particularly entertaining or witty at all, but nothing to get arrested over. He's just coming off as a shitty person.

The joke is basically the same as "The Producers" - make something so tasteless to purposefully make people feel disgusted.



There is no real difference between "Springtime for Hitler" and teaching a pug to raise its paw when it hears "Gas the Jews". It's the exact same joke - purposefully make people uncomfortable with something in ludicrously bad taste. There is meta with "Springtime for Hitler", of course, but the real-world audience is supposed to cringe just like the audience in the theater within the movie.

I think a lot of the bias in this case comes from Dankula's appearance. Economically, he is a leftist, once a communist. Certainly not a Nazi.

 

[Autoignition]

There is no real difference between "Springtime for Hitler" and teaching a pug to raise its paw when it hears "Gas the Jews". It's the exact same joke - purposefully make people uncomfortable with something in ludicrously bad taste. There is meta with "Springtime for Hitler", of course, but the real-world audience is supposed to cringe just like the audience in the theater within the movie.

I think a lot of the bias in this case comes from Dankula's appearance. Economically, he is a leftist, once a communist. Certainly not a Nazi.

No. There is a difference. There's a very big difference. In The Producers, the butt of the joke was Hitler. In this video, the butt of the joke is the Jews who were ethnically cleansed in WW2. That's a huge fucking difference and why The Producers is funny and why this video is fucking disgusting. Anyone on here who thinks the video in the OP is genuinely humorous is someone I never, ever want to be associated with.

That having been said, it's also disgusting that this guy is being sent to jail. You'd probably be hard pressed to find someone left on GAF more outraged about this video than I am, but jailtime is absolutely unacceptable. We can't defend free speech only some of the time. We have to defend it all the time, even when we hate it, otherwise any one of us could be next in the crackdown. Laws and loopholes will be exploited to oppress people, and that ain't a state of society I'm down to fucks with.

 

[infinitys_7th]

No. There is a difference. There's a very big difference. In The Producers, the butt of the joke was Hitler. In this video, the butt of the joke is the Jews who were ethnically cleansed in WW2. That's a huge fucking difference and why The Producers is funny and why this video is fucking disgusting. Anyone on here who thinks the video in the OP is genuinely humorous is someone I never, ever want to be associated with.

That having been said, it's also disgusting that this guy is being sent to jail. You'd probably be hard pressed to find someone left on GAF more outraged about this video than I am, but jailtime is absolutely unacceptable. We can't defend free speech only some of the time. We have to defend it all the time, even when we hate it, otherwise any one of us could be next in the crackdown. Laws and loopholes will be exploited to oppress people, and that ain't a state of society I'm down to fucks with.

"Springtime for Hitler" specifically makes light of the "Master Race" concept, which calls into the Holocaust, which was an ethnic cleansing.

Obviously, neither "Springtime for Hitler" nor teaching the pug to salute are intended to endorsements of this - they are designed to be as purposefully offensive as possible for comedic effect. In one, the audience is the general population, and for the other the audience was Dankula's girlfriend who would be pissed that her dog was a little Nazi.

Notice that I did not post the part of the movie with LSD playing drugged-up hippie Hitler, merely the prologue. And it is still hilarious.

 

[nightfly]

What really gets me is they go after someone like this but barely do anything against all the imams spreading hate and violence at Mosques:

 

[Autoignition]

"Springtime for Hitler" specifically makes light of the "Master Race" concept, which calls into the Holocaust, which was an ethnic cleansing.

Obviously, neither "Springtime for Hitler" nor teaching the pug to salute are intended to endorsements of this - they are designed to be as purposefully offensive as possible for comedic effect. In one, the audience is the general population, and for the other the audience was Dankula's girlfriend who would be pissed that her dog was a little Nazi.

Notice that I did not post the part of the movie with LSD playing drugged-up hippie Hitler, merely the prologue. And it is still hilarious.

You didn't actually address my point at all about at whose expense the punchline of the joke actually is, but thanks for playing I guess.

 

[infinitys_7th]

You didn't actually address my point at all about at whose expense the punchline of the joke actually is, but thanks for playing I guess.

Because I did not post the portion which specifically mocks Hitler. I posted the portion before that, the prologue of the play. You specifically talked about it mocking Hitler, which what I posted does not do.

It ends with one lone guy in the audience clapping and getting attacked by the rest of the audience.

And, like I said, that portion is still hilarious because of the audience's reaction in the movie AND the pug thing is hilarious because I can just see his girlfriend's reaction to her dog becoming a brownshirt.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

The joke is basically the same as "The Producers" - make something so tasteless to purposefully make people feel disgusted.



There is no real difference between "Springtime for Hitler" and teaching a pug to raise its paw when it hears "Gas the Jews". It's the exact same joke - purposefully make people uncomfortable with something in ludicrously bad taste. There is meta with "Springtime for Hitler", of course, but the real-world audience is supposed to cringe just like the audience in the theater within the movie.

I think a lot of the bias in this case comes from Dankula's appearance. Economically, he is a leftist, once a communist. Certainly not a Nazi.

The funniest thing about the producers was that they made the play as terrible as possible on purpose so they could take the extra money for themselves, no strings attached. More shows mean more money spent on production. They wanted a bomb, and would of had it if the play wasn't unintentionally mocking the nazis in a satirical way. The complexity of their plans falling apart because of an unexpected hilariously feminist acting Hitler lead was the comedy.

I'm struggling to see what's comedic about having a dog react to ethnic cleansing statements because you can literally do that with any single word with a dog.

 

[infinitys_7th]

The funniest thing about the producers was that they made the play as terrible as possible on purpose so they could take the extra money for themselves, no strings attached. More shows mean more money spent on production. They wanted a bomb, and would of had it if the play wasn't unintentionally mocking the nazis in a satirical way. The complexity of their plans falling apart because of an unexpected hilariously feminist acting Hitler lead was the comedy.

I'm struggling to see what's comedic about having a dog react to ethnic cleansing statements because you can literally do that with any single word with a dog.

Because it was also meant to be purposefully bad - he did it to annoy his girlfriend.

Comedy is all about a juxtaposition of emotions. Disgust at seeing Hitler singing about the third reich, but joy at the terrible puns and hilarious dancing. Disgust at seeing a dog salute to "Sieg Hiel" and "Gas the Jews", but affection at seeing a beloved pet and adorable pug.

 

[Mohonky]

What really gets me is they go after someone like this but barely do anything against all the imams spreading hate and violence at Mosques:

This is the ironic part for me. They have arrested people for Islamaphobic remarks on social media, but they have had police guards for Sharia for UK marches carrying signs to behead those that insult Islam, death to apostates and will let Imams go on TV and talk about death for homosexuals, adulterers etc.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Because it was also meant to be purposefully bad - he did it to annoy his girlfriend.

Comedy is all about a juxtaposition of emotions. Disgust at seeing Hitler singing about the third reich, but joy at the terrible puns and hilarious dancing. Disgust at seeing a dog salute to "Sieg Hiel" and "Gas the Jews", but affection at seeing a beloved pet and adorable pug.

You're making a huuuuuge leap of logic here. I loved the producers and this didn't get a chuckle out of me. It was shitty execution.

 

[Mohonky]

You're making a huuuuuge leap of logic here. I loved the producers and this didn't get a chuckle out of me. It was shitty execution.

Huge leap? Its literally what he said....its also the very first thing he said. And you're talking about huge leaps of logic?

 

[Papa]

No. There is a difference. There's a very big difference. In The Producers, the butt of the joke was Hitler. In this video, the butt of the joke is the Jews who were ethnically cleansed in WW2. That's a huge fucking difference and why The Producers is funny and why this video is fucking disgusting. Anyone on here who thinks the video in the OP is genuinely humorous is someone I never, ever want to be associated with.

That having been said, it's also disgusting that this guy is being sent to jail. You'd probably be hard pressed to find someone left on GAF more outraged about this video than I am, but jailtime is absolutely unacceptable. We can't defend free speech only some of the time. We have to defend it all the time, even when we hate it, otherwise any one of us could be next in the crackdown. Laws and loopholes will be exploited to oppress people, and that ain't a state of society I'm down to fucks with.

I would argue that the butt of Count Dankula’s joke was also Hitler because he distilled his entire being into something a dog can replicate.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

Huge leap? Its literally what he said....its also the very first thing he said. And you're talking about huge leaps of logic?

Apparently the courts found it otherwise. Just because you're saying it doesn't automatically mean that's how it is. Execution is key, and it was terribly done.

It came off as "This is an incredibly childish thing to do and I'm going to try to rationalize it by mentioning something popular that is vaguely related!"

 

[infinitys_7th]

Apparently the courts found it otherwise. Just because you're saying it doesn't automatically mean that's how it is. Execution is key, and it was terribly done.

It came off as "This is an incredibly childish thing to do and I'm going to try to rationalize it by mentioning something popular that is vaguely related!"

The court opinion was, by its own account, "subjective" opinion.

Not really evidence of any kind.

He never compared it to The Producers - that was me. Dankula's video starts out by him specifically saying his intention was to annoy his girlfriend. That is actually objective evidence, which the court ignored based on subjective opinion. Judges are not paid to be comedic critics.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

The court opinion was, by its own account, "subjective" opinion.

Not really evidence of any kind.

He never compared it to The Producers - that was me. Dankula's video starts out by him specifically saying his intention was to annoy his girlfriend. That is actually objective evidence, which the court ignored based on subjective opinion. Judges are not paid to be comedic critics.

Courts and judges are the interpretations of the law, which is subjective to a degree. If it was only to annoy his gf, he doesn't tape it. He does it in front of her a few times, she gets angry, they move on.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Courts and judges are the interpretations of the law, which is subjective to a degree. If it was only to annoy his gf, he doesn't tape it. He does it in front of her a few times, she gets angry, they move on.

If they are subjective, then I can say they are wrong with as much validity as when they say they are right. I just don't have a thug in a uniform to back up my opinion.

 

[StrikeNinja24]

If they are subjective, then I can say they are wrong with as much validity as when they say they are right. I just don't have a thug in a uniform to back up my opinion.

Same with the constitution and the amendments.

 

[Kadayi]

Ridiculous especially given the blind eye turned to those who truly do deliver hate speech. I hope the outcry about this makes the national media and a serious review is made of this legislation and how it is utilized.

 

[Punchpudding]

The situation is ridiculous but it's right there in the law as it is written even if this is not the kind of problem the law was originally supposed to address. It seems similar to the bill C-16 issue in Canada; created with good intentions but general enough to lead to unforeseen or ridiculous results.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Anyone worked out where the line is yet?

 

[lifa-cobex]

Watch out Brit-gaf,
There coming for you.

 

[KINGMOKU]

The situation is ridiculous but it's right there in the law as it is written even if this is not the kind of problem the law was originally supposed to address. It seems similar to the bill C-16 issue in Canada; created with good intentions but general enough to lead to unforeseen or ridiculous results.

Oh this is not unforseen. This is how governments slowly gain power. You can't yank mass freedoms away from the populace all at once. You have to use safety and freedom as excuses to do so slowly. These laws are for the "safety" of others and your a terrible person if you don't agree and you may become a problem so we'll monitor your online profile just to make sure.

Brainwashing people into believing free speech can only go so far is a decisive step in curbing all speech. This is why I will fight to the death to allow speech I loathe as when you have the government deciding what speech is allowable, well, the results are obvious.

Those who cheer this dont deserve free speech. Those who cheer this are ignorant of history. Those who cheer this are enemies of freedom.

I can't put it any more bluntly then that.

 

[OH-MyCar]

I always perceived Scotland as the bad-ass black sheep of the U.K. that was rolling around in glass while everyone else tried to maintain some veneer of propriety. Who knew they'd offer the world something more embarrassing than Bono & Gary Glitter.

 

[lifa-cobex]

I always perceived Scotland as the bad-ass black sheep of the U.K. that was rolling around in glass while everyone else tried to maintain some veneer of propriety. Who knew they'd offer the world something more embarrassing than Bono & Gary Glitter.

When i was up last year, they had communist party's just roaming the streets. My mate tells me they are up and down the main city street by him all the time.
Really bloody bizarre.

 

[J Bro]

When you're done expressing what a gross miscarriage of justice this is, don't forget to tell everyone about what an asshole the victim is so we know you're a cool dude.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Watch out Brit-gaf,
There coming for you.

God, what a bunch of brats. Scotland must be ashamed.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Internet, I love you.



Guys, I swear, this was not me. Synergy of great minds, as it were:

 

[The Sane Psycho]

True talk, this is ridiculous. The guy was simply making offensive jokes. I make jokes like this all the time. Even if it was actual hate speech (which it's not), I would still defend his right to say it. If some neo nazi was saying something along the lines of " I fucking hate kikes because they control everything and always act like innocent victims, and niggers are all uncivilized monkeys that look better hanging from a tree," I would think the guy was an ignorant piece of shit, but I would still feel that he has a right to his free speech. Like it or not, hate speech is free speech. And to show that I'm not unbiased on this issue, as a white man with blonde and blue eyes, I would still feel like a black man would have every right to say something along the lines of "All crackers are white devils always keeping us down, and the world would be a better place without them." I would think the guy was a total fucking moron, but he still has the right to his views and his speech. Whatever happened to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?"

 

[It's Jeff]

Whatever happened to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?"

It gets hijacked every decade or so. The PMRC knew what was best for the kids and their influential ears. Conservative Christians took the ball and ran with it next. Liberals are just taking their turn. Pendulum, cycles, sine waves, and all that.

History doesn't lie. The power stat reveals that this process of controlling speech doesn't work in the long run, at least not in the States.

The not bug but feature of American government that people don't appreciate is the gridlock actually prevents hysteria from leaving permanent marks on our legislation. I know I'm glad there isn't musk of republican '94 all up in this piece. You want a class like that making the rules on who can say what?

Right. So free speech stays, you throw a brick through a window that has "Jew get out" written on it, your ass goes to jail. Don't fuck with it, it works and is fair for everyone. I mean it, don't fuck with it. This may be the one thing our country has gotten right.

 

[Punchpudding]

Oh this is not unforseen. This is how governments slowly gain power. You can't yank mass freedoms away from the populace all at once. You have to use safety and freedom as excuses to do so slowly. These laws are for the "safety" of others and your a terrible person if you don't agree and you may become a problem so we'll monitor your online profile just to make sure.

Agreed. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here but that's how it happens; if not from the original lawmakers then someone down the line.

 

[way more]

No. There is a difference. There's a very big difference. In The Producers, the butt of the joke was Hitler. In this video, the butt of the joke is the Jews who were ethnically cleansed in WW2. That's a huge fucking difference and why The Producers is funny and why this video is fucking disgusting. Anyone on here who thinks the video in the OP is genuinely humorous is someone I never, ever want to be associated with.

I would say the butt of the joke is the GF who is upset that her dog is acting happy to racist thoughts but the guy is certainly using the Holocaust as a way to make that joke. Therefore another "victim" of the joke are modern day Jews who do have a claim about it being offensive. If it's my Bubbie or Uncle Sol saying they are offended I'll agree but if it's my friend Brendan Horowitz I'll tell him to brush it off.

Right. So free speech stays, you throw a brick through a window that has "Jew get out" written on it, your ass goes to jail. Don't fuck with it, it works and is fair for everyone. I mean it, don't fuck with it. This may be the one thing our country has gotten right.

I like that.

 

[Lionel Richie]

No. There is a difference. There's a very big difference. In The Producers, the butt of the joke was Hitler. In this video, the butt of the joke is the Jews who were ethnically cleansed in WW2. That's a huge fucking difference and why The Producers is funny and why this video is fucking disgusting. Anyone on here who thinks the video in the OP is genuinely humorous is someone I never, ever want to be associated with.

That having been said, it's also disgusting that this guy is being sent to jail. You'd probably be hard pressed to find someone left on GAF more outraged about this video than I am, but jailtime is absolutely unacceptable. We can't defend free speech only some of the time. We have to defend it all the time, even when we hate it, otherwise any one of us could be next in the crackdown. Laws and loopholes will be exploited to oppress people, and that ain't a state of society I'm down to fucks with.

This is how I feel because I don't think the video was funny at all, it was edgy as fuck as most of these usually are. However, I can also confirm with some authority that exactly 0 jews died or were put in danger because of it. Bad comedy should be a sign that you need to consider a career change, not a criminal record or fucking jail time.

 

[J Bro]

Thank god everyone feels the need to point out how edgy or dumb they think the joke was.

 

[way more]

I'll point out that I think training your dog to do a hitler salute is pretty funny. Each dog has a specific quirk that you can get them to do on command. My dog would crawl like a WWI soldier under barbed wire. We would say, "commando crawl, commando crawl!" and she would do it. If I had a dog that did this . . .

I would definitely do that on a command. But I would make a joke out of it by having her do it and then scolding her for being a nazi. "Evil dog, why are you so racist! Why are you so racist," while giving her tummy rubs.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

It turns out he can actually get 12 months jail. And he's already under house arrest.

 

[lifa-cobex]

It turns out he can actually get 12 months jail. And he's already under house arrest.

The prosecution tried to push for five years at one point.

 

[Nicktendo86]

The thing that really gets me about this case is that no-one made a complaint to the police about the video. Police Scotland decided themselves that is was wrong and then looked for complaints.

 

[Hissing Sid]

Did you know that the Erich von Manstein taught his dog to do the Hitler salute as a piss take? He wasn’t a great fan of moustachioed clown apparently.

Pretty sure Hitler must have gotten wind of this as it wasn’t exactly a secret amongst the higher ups and there were plenty of grima wormtongues hanging around him all the time.

And you’ll never guess what? Manstein wasn’t arrested. Manstein wasn’t brought before a kangaroo court. Manstein wasn’t convicted.

That’s right Scotland, you’ve reacted worse than Adolf Fucking Hitler to the same joke!

 

[Relativ9]

I'm actually kind of glad this happened. I mean my sympathies to the Dankula guy, but I've been saying for years that hate speech laws are dangerous and fundamentally unethical. But every time I've had discussions about it with people they've presented my views and my fears as impossible scenarios that would never happen and have always argued that the laws are good because they stop racists from harassing people. Me arguing against them then inevitably gets falsely equated with me defending racists, and then the virtue signaling and shut-down tactics aren't far behind.

We needed a pure, clean and patently absurd example from a forward-thinking European democracy. We needed a way to show these people that they actually agree with us, but that they just don't know it yet.

 

[Dunki]

Bear in mind, 30 years ago, Mel Brooks had a comedy song, The Hitler Rap. It was a top 20 hit.

Since were are on Hitler raps



These guys would totally not fly these days but I love them XD

 

[Unknown Quantity]

In the context it was funny, tasteless yet humorous. It was meant to be funny, he wasn't trying to incite hatred, fear or make light of the situation.
The posts off topic from the edf prick defense force should be in that relevant thread where we can rightly call you out.
Don't mention priests, football coaches, celebs touching your kids, just those foreigners.

 

[bigedole]

So, I'm a direct descendant of Holocaust survivors. I've been to the Memorial Museum in DC and have found names of my ancestors engraved there. Pretty much all of my family on either side has practicing jewish relatives within 1 generation. I'm saying all of this to make it clear that I have perspective on the subject matter of the dudes video. I'm not going to lie, my wife and I have been whispering "Jew" and giving surprised looks to each other for the last 24 hours That shit was funny, even if some of it was in bad taste. I can still laugh at it, and I sure as fuck don't feel like it's reinforcing any negative stereotypes towards me or my extended family. Scotland is being ridiculous, period and thank god that would never fly in the US. Anyone defending the idea that this is a crime is a literal piece of shit.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Pie has also made a point of notice

 

[Dr. Claus]

This makes me genuinely sad to see. An innocent man's life is ruined because of grossly incompetent politicians, lawyers, and psychotic people. When I did some reading on this incident, I noticed a very vocal minority that openly calls him an alt-right supporting neo-nazi. Pushing false information so they can have someone they can hate. Laughing and hoping that the man dies in prison. This is despicable and pushes a nasty precedent moving forward.

While I am of scottish descent, I still have a large group of family that reside in Scotland and this... this makes me sick to my stomach to see.