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Youtuber Count Dankula found guilty of hate speech according to Scottish court

Airola

Member
It was an "evil idiot dog" joke.

While the genocide of the jews is part of our history and in that sense I understand some could be offended, I think the joke is still pretty much the same if he would've said something like "who wants to destroy the whole world" and the dog would made its excited "HURGHRUGH WOOF WOOF HURHGUHRUHU" noises as if that cute looking "idiot" dog is the most evil being ever.

The joke in this video was to make it look like that dog is such an evil nazi that he immediately reacts to even just mentioning a Jew. And obviously the way the dog looks like makes the joke funnier. Everybody loves pugs and everybody thinks they are cute and its funny to put those cute things in evil context. Jokes like that have existed quite a while now. There are lots of pictures online where some cute animal is minding its own business but with a caption with some evil shit written on it to make it look as if this cute animal is evil as hell.

No one should go to jail for that.
 

Relativ9

Member
Sets quite a precedent. I mean clearly, they can't possibly argue that his motive is the reason for the punishment. So it has to be the Nazi imagery/content itself they find so offensive that it's actually punishable by law. So if Nazi imagery independent of motive or context is offensive. Shouldn't any director of any movie dealing with WW2 also be guilty? Shouldn't Prince Harry?
 
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Mohonky

Member
haha I remember Harry dressing up as a Nazi. I would have hated to be the person that had to go in front of the press and explain that one.

If he'd done that today, man there would be riots in the streets.
 

lifa-cobex

Member
Sets quite a precedent. I mean clearly, they can't possibly argue that his motive is the reason for the punishment. So it has to be the Nazi imagery/content itself they find so offensive that it's actually punishable by law. So if Nazi imagery independent of motive or context is offensive. Shouldn't any director of any movie dealing with WW2 also be guilty? Shouldn't Prince Harry?

It's almost worth doing a survey in the streets.

"What would be more persuasive towards your political beliefs?"
A film director?
A dog?
A member of the royal family?
 

Kadayi

Banned
I'm still astounded by this. Good to see Johnathan Pie getting in on it. On point about the abject lack of mainstream coverage of this and the need for more people calling this travesty of justice out. Interesting to see that Dankula himself seems at peace with the idea that he is very likely to spend time in jail, but sees it as a necessary sacrifice to highlight the absurdity of the new legislation.

 

Corrik

Member
That was the context of the joke. He said his gf thinks the dog is perfect so he wanted to teach it something so far opposite of perfect just to wind her up.

Then he uploaded it so a few of his mates could have a laugh but it went viral; it wasnt intended to be for mass consumption.

The scary part is, some comedians have said much worse things, this opens up a whole new legal precedent for them to be afraid of.
Okay. Well, I didn't watch it, so I did not know the context. The context seems a bit different. It seems he is actually acknowledging the fact it is vile in it.
 
Reported you.

Oh, so you're a snitch REEEEEEEEE! Cool story bro, tell it again.

But if this was a post shitting on Christianity, would you report it? Furthermore, would you have made sure to make a big deal about reporting it? Somehow I doubt it.

Tbh, religion is kinda shitty in general, but Islam is by far the worst.
 

Kadayi

Banned
Truth? What truth may that be? Please explain instead of posting a video. I hate that tactic, "oohhh he posted a YouTube video/link so it must have some merit"

Are you too lazy to actually read?

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-bbcs-shameful-silence-on-the-telford-sex-scandal/

The BBC’s shameful silence on the Telford sex scandal

Extract: -

. While I could see that the BBC drama department might be unlikely to again commission a programme looking at the most serious and widespread child-abuse to have occurred in Britain in modern times I thought that they might at least still report the news. No such luck.
The front page of yesterday’s Sunday Mirror read ‘Britain’s ‘worst ever’ child grooming scandal exposed: Hundreds of young girls raped, beaten, sold for sex and some even KILLED.’ Like the scandals in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxfordshire and a growing list of other places, it seems that the victims are, once again, white British girls and the perpetrators men of ‘Asian’ background. Of course while in most other situations the word ‘Asian’ means ‘Asian’, for these purposes ‘Asian’ means ‘men of Muslim background, mainly Pakistani’.

So yeah a big sex scandal did come to light involving hundreds of girls many of whom were underage who were repeatedly gang-raped and the BBC surprisingly didn't even cover it.
 

Geki-D

Banned
I really, really, REALLY don't like the guy. But this is pretty damn crappy and I was sure it would get thrown out because it's so ridiculous.

That said, he was one to celebrate Destiny's Twitter ban due to false flagging so the guy himself clearly isn't all that much of a free speech exponent. At least not when it's for people he doesn't like.
 

JKRMA

Banned
Are you too lazy to actually read?

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-bbcs-shameful-silence-on-the-telford-sex-scandal/

The BBC’s shameful silence on the Telford sex scandal

Extract: -



So yeah a big sex scandal did come to light involving hundreds of girls many of whom were underage who were repeatedly gang-raped and the BBC surprisingly didn't even cover it.

Are you too stupid to post an opinion with no context which has nothing to do with the topic? Just seemed really random where you took an opportunity to shit on Islam.

Well, I might as well do it...

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...gQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw24iugTSC24QKnmRb4MUZWO&cf=1

Guess people too focused on building the wall and Trump shit to focus on the above.

Trump himself too busy trying to build wall and have a trade war with China. Guess he's also too busy fighting all the lawsuits against him.

Why won't people look into this!! Oh because the are minorities going missing. Nevermind!
 

JKRMA

Banned
Oh, so you're a snitch REEEEEEEEE! Cool story bro, tell it again.

But if this was a post shitting on Christianity, would you report it? Furthermore, would you have made sure to make a big deal about reporting it? Somehow I doubt it.

Tbh, religion is kinda shitty in general, but Islam is by far the worst.

I really don't get the "cool story bro" part. Did you have a stroke with the first part of your post or something? I thougt this place was about open discussion and asking question and not a high school with immature shit like that? Do you feel good? Do you feel proud? Did you give yourself a pat on the back for posting it? A self high five? I am not even gonna respond to the rest of your post(as disgusting as it is you bigot) as you are no more than a child.
 
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Kadayi

Banned
Are you too stupid to post an opinion with no context which has nothing to do with the topic? Just seemed really random where you took an opportunity to shit on Islam.

The post I linked to was in one you responded to. It seemed to have escaped you. Also, how is exposing events that actually happened "shitting on Islam" exactly? You asked what 'Truth' as if these things are a fabrication and you were provided with evidence regarding it.
 

subsmoke

Member
Am I the only one who finds it a little scary that in many other parts of the world, you can be thrown in jail for saying something the government finds offensive? America isn't perfect but I'm very glad we have the right to freedom of speech here.
 

Geki-D

Banned
...None of this Telford stuff is relevant to this topic at all. I guess you could, you know; make a thread about that stuff if you so pleased but its starting to look like derailment.
Am I the only one who finds it a little scary that in many other parts of the world, you can be thrown in jail for saying something the government finds offensive? America isn't perfect but I'm very glad we have the right to freedom of speech here.
I don't live in the US, but free speech laws over there are truly a thing of beauty. It is indeed pretty scary, especially in this case where what happened is just incredibly ridiculous.
 
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I really don't get the "cool story bro" part. Did you have a stroke with the first part of your post or something? I thougt this place was about open discussion and asking question and not a high school with immature shit like that? Do you feel good? Do you feel proud? Did you give yourself a pat on the back for posting it? A self high five? I am not even gonna respond to the rest of your post(as disgusting as it is you bigot) as you are no more than a child.

Cry some more.

Islam is a more harmful and toxic ideology than other religions. Deal with it. Take a trip to the Middle East, or hell, Europe if you don't believe me.

Not all Muslims are bad, I know this. I've met Muslims who were wonderful, great people. It doesn't change the fact that Islam as a whole is by far the most regressive, destructive religion by far.
 
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Kadayi

Banned
...None of this Telford stuff is relevant to this topic at all. I guess you could, you know; make a thread about that stuff if you so pleased but is starting to look like derailment.

Perhaps, but at the same time from a media studies perspective, it's interesting how mainstream media is largely silent about both matters because both are inconvenient subjects. Contextually I agree with you, but within the frame of the moment, it's a fascinating counterpoint.
 
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JKRMA

Banned
The post I linked to was in one you responded to. It seemed to have escaped you. Also, how is exposing events that actually happened "shitting on Islam" exactly? You asked what 'Truth' as if these things are a fabrication and you were provided with evidence regarding it.


Fair enough, and I will admit to it. But with that said, why then did you simply put and I'm gonna paraphrase here, ", meanwhile with religious liberty Islam is doing bad things and they get away with it"? That seemed very very selective there against Islam, and you posted that with no correlation with the topic on hand. You realize there are a shit ton of stories that the media doesn't report compared to other topics for just about any group including Christianity, Hindus and men?

Real selective finger pointing there.
 
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JKRMA

Banned
Cry some more.

Islam is a more harmful and toxic ideology than other religions. Deal with it. Take a trip to the Middle East, or hell, Europe if you don't believe me.

Not all Muslims are bad, I know this. I've met Muslims who were wonderful, great people. It doesn't change the fact that Islam as a whole is by far the most regressive, destructive religion by far.

Please tell then how and explain how it is more harmful than any other religion? I know some indigenous and African people who would prob want a word with you Mr. "Quote cool saying from high school here".
 

Geki-D

Banned
Perhaps, but at the same time from a media studies perspective, it's interesting how mainstream media is largely silent about both matters because both are inconvenient subjects.
In regards to this case, you'd expect any news organisation to be against the result seeing as it sets a really bad precedence that could be wielded against the media at any given time.
But with that said, why then did you simply put and I'm gonna paraphrase here, ", meanwhile with religious liberty Islam is doing bad things and they get away with it"? That seemed very very selective there against Islam, and you posted that with no correlation with the topic on hand. You realize there are a shit ton of stories that the media doesn't report compared to other topics for just about any group including Christianity, Hindus and men?
Real selective finger pointing there.
Is this directed at me??
 

JKRMA

Banned
In regards to this case, you'd expect any news organisation to be against the result seeing as it sets a really bad precedence that could be wielded against the media at any given time.

Is this directed at me??

No, I apologize, did not delete your quote. I will edit my post.
 

Kadayi

Banned
Fair enough, and I will admit to it. But with that said, why then did you simply put and I'm gonna paraphrase here, ", meanwhile with religious liberty Islam is doing bad things and they get away with it"? That seemed very very selective there against Islam, and you posted that with no correlation with the topic on hand. You realize there are a shit ton of stories that the media doesn't report compared to other topics for just about any group including Christianity, Hindus and men?.
I don't honestly care about what the particular ethnicity of these men was, or what their religious beliefs may be. What I do care about though is that this and other abuses were known about and not acted upon by the authorities at every level of governance because said organisations were petrified that any intervention they undertook to tackle the matter head-on could be potentially spun as racist, and so the perpetrators we allowed to go unchecked until the amount of abuse reaching endemic proportions and couldn't be ignored.

Rape destroys lives. That's not a throwaway line, that's an absolute fact I've witnessed first hand. The abuse these girls suffered will haunt them forever, and it was allowed to occur because a great many people in authority stood by and did nothing for years.

Now I certainly don't weigh the travails of a youtuber whose going to go to prison for up to a year for a misunderstood gag due to an asinine ill-conceived law anywhere remotely on that level, but I do think that absurd injustices regardless of what they are should be brought to light, and it's a sad indictment that these things aren't, because they are subjects that do need to be tackled openly.

In regards to this case, you'd expect any news organisation to be against the result seeing as it sets a really bad precedence that could be wielded against the media at any given time.

Absolutely. it's such a ridiculous conclusion that it absolutely needs to be covered, because if it isn't legally quashed and therefore becomes case law then it could have a massive impact on all manner of things media related, through the setting of a precedent, until a statute revision is put in place, and that could take years.
 
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JKRMA

Banned
Yes, but investigating the sex slavery would be intolerant towards the beautiful and progressive religion of Islam, the religion of peace.

Please realize the difference between your first two posts I quoted e.g. the above and what you just now posted. Big diference. Feels better, right? I will again ask, why did you feel to post the way you did the first time? Rape is extremely wrong yes, but it seemed you tied it to Islam specifically. The reason I feel that is because the topic had nothing to do with rape, yet you painted Islam bad, not rape specifically. Why?
 
Fellow members of the community:

We got a crossfire of reports from this thread which can end up scalating to thread closure and various bannings from both sides of the debate.

i beg of you tolerance and self control.

Of course it's hard to contain ourselves when we witness something we consider an injustice but insults don't improve the quality of the discussion, instead dilutes it, changing it's nature and make us focus in matters that are not relevant to what's really important.

We' ll set aside all the previous reports and start from a blank state where we'll all respect each other. Yes, we are putting some faith in the people debating here, so please put up your best effort.
 

JKRMA

Banned
I respect that. Does that mean though the folks called out for their prior unwarranted and unrelated comments that I called out will not have to answer to
 
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Kadayi

Banned

People aren't up in arms about this because of the person charged. They're up in arms about it because of the implication. It was a stupid joke, and certainly not a tasteful one, however, he has been charged with inciting hate speech and from a legal perspective, such a judgement establishes a precedent of case law for future convictions. It's not about judging his character, it's about judging his actions and their intent, and a willful misinterpretation by the judiciary that apparently ignores context is an extremely dangerous road to go down.
 

Fnord

Member
This is what happens when you don't have freedom of speech. It must be all encompassing or it will crumble. When you erode rights, little by little, an actual slippery slope happens and seeing people cheer for this is baffling as they don't see what is happening. They don't realize they have given immense power to the government. They don't realize they are next.

Wow.

Exactly. Imagine this same law being instituted in the US (thankfully, we have a First Amendment to protect us... for now). Can you imagine what kinds of things Trump would consider "grossly offensive" and start having people arrested for? This is the world these people are creating. And it's scary as fuck.
 

Fnord

Member
""The First Amendment really was designed to protect a debate at the fringes. You don't need the courts to protect speech that everybody agrees with, because that speech will be tolerated. You need a First Amendment to protect speech that people regard as intolerable or outrageous or offensive — because that is when the majority will wield its power to censor or suppress, and we have a First Amendment to prevent the government from doing that."

-Steven Shapiro
Legal Director, ACLU

Dead. On. Perfect. Pitty it doesn't apply in Scotland.
 

camelCase

Member
Am I the only one who finds it a little scary that in many other parts of the world, you can be thrown in jail for saying something the government finds offensive? America isn't perfect but I'm very glad we have the right to freedom of speech here.
It is absurd to me that people who criticize the govt the most are the ones who so badly want them to decide what is OK and what is not OK to say.

There is no gray area in a case like this, it is a clear example of incarcerating someone because they said a distasteful thing. What an awful time we live in where this essential freedom is questioned. Shame on all those who advocate for this man to be prosecuted.
 

It's Jeff

Banned
I am a big fan of European countries, wish America would adopt much of their government stylings :)

I'll definitely agree on standards like prison and certainly labor - the latter is an unspoken crisis. But are you defending this particular aspect? Why is that?
 
Fellow members of the community:

We got a crossfire of reports from this thread which can end up scalating to thread closure and various bannings from both sides of the debate.

i beg of you tolerance and self control.

Of course it's hard to contain ourselves when we witness something we consider an injustice but insults don't improve the quality of the discussion, instead dilutes it, changing it's nature and make us focus in matters that are not relevant to what's really important.

We' ll set aside all the previous reports and start from a blank state where we'll all respect each other. Yes, we are putting some faith in the people debating here, so please put up your best effort.

How much of a crybaby do you have to be to report a post?
It's hard to imagine such fragile adults exist, but then a mod will make a post like this exposing the forum.

Strange times.
 

Blackie

Member
I am confused. Are you saying you are happy with the verdict for this case?

Absolutely. Nazism is no joke and should not be made light of/normalized with levity of any sort.

I'll definitely agree on standards like prison and certainly labor - the latter is an unspoken crisis. But are you defending this particular aspect? Why is that?

I'm not defending it, only celebrating it. Certain things should not be joked about or popularized in media, like Isis/KKK/Nazism.
Globalism is the new normal and that means we need to be inclusive and promote diversity. European countries tend to have strong hate speech laws which I am in favor of. Freedom of speech is wonderful, however hate speech should never have a platform. We need to love each other, not divide each other with any type of hate.
 
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J Bro

Banned
Our Trump and Republican-led government should enact strong hate speech laws, and our police force, the ones who have shot a lot of unarmed black people, should crack down hard on it.

Indeed, fellow liberals. Good plan.
 

It's Jeff

Banned
Absolutely. Nazism is no joke and should not be made light of/normalized with levity of any sort.



I'm not defending it, only celebrating it. Certain things should not be joked about or popularized in media, like Isis/KKK/Nazism.
Globalism is the new normal and that means we need to be inclusive and promote diversity. European countries tend to have strong hate speech laws which I am in favor of. Freedom of speech is wonderful, however hate speech should never have a platform. We need to love each other, not divide each other with any type of hate.

Sure, I can understand the good intention behind that. What are the consequences you fear by allowing hate sppech?
 

Dr. Claus

Banned
Absolutely. Nazism is no joke and should not be made light of/normalized with levity of any sort.



I'm not defending it, only celebrating it. Certain things should not be joked about or popularized in media, like Isis/KKK/Nazism.
Globalism is the new normal and that means we need to be inclusive and promote diversity. European countries tend to have strong hate speech laws which I am in favor of. Freedom of speech is wonderful, however hate speech should never have a platform. We need to love each other, not divide each other with any type of hate.

Okay, so we should also put people such as Matt Stone and Trey Parker behind bars for making Nazi/KKK/ISIS jokes. Throw the writers for specific Family Guy episodes behind bars as well. Dave Chapelle, Louie CK, Frankie Boyle, Jimmy Carr, should I go on? Hell, if we are just ignoring comedians, why not go after my great grandfather. He is 104 and fought for America during WW2, but who cares about that? He made jokes about Nazis and Jewish folk so that means he should also go to jail using your inane logic.

I do not think you fully understand the nature of Count Dankula's joke, nor about jokes in general.
 
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