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Zach Braff wants your Kickstarter money for a Garden State follow up

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That's right, people are paying Braff to make this film and then, after he makes his movie with all the free money and graciously giving people a PDF of the script and a streaming link to songs he collected, he gets to cash in on the sales of this movie from those SAME people again.

Except that anyone at the $30 level or higher gets to watch the movie for free in an online screening with a Q&A afterwards. Split that cost with 1 friend and it's only marginally more expensive than going to see it at the theater. Split it with 2 or more friends and it's cheaper than going to the movies.

But that this is THE WORST kickstarter project in that it's a cash grab for Braff and the backers are letting themselves get exploited, because he is Zach Braff and they like Zach Braff.

You don't have to love it or like it, but it's certainly not the WORST project. The Penny-Arcade and Susan Wilson money grabs were arguably worse. David Fincher raised half a million dollars for a demo reel of The Goon that was supposed to be used to pitch studios on a feature-length film. And backers are not even allowed to the finished demo reel.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Fair enough, you get to watch the movie once, on a livestream (which hopefully won't cut out and which hopefully will be in HD).

Of course, if you're not in the US, this means getting up in the middle of the night sometime, hopefully on a day you don't have to work the next morning.

Seriously, most other kickstarters offers a digital download of the movie, it's not that hard and it's the LEAST a movie kickstarter should offer for 20~30 dollar reward tiers and above.

You don't have to love it or like it, but it's certainly not the WORST project. The Penny-Arcade and Susan Wilson money grabs were arguably worse. David Fincher raised half a million dollars for a demo reel of The Goon that was supposed to be used to pitch studios on a feature-length film. And backers are not even allowed to the finished demo reel.

Very well, it's equally as bad as those though, definitely not better. All are good examples of people abusing their fame to get free money because they can.
 

border

Member
Very well, it's equally as bad as those though, definitely not better. All are good examples of people abusing their fame to get free money because they can.

The people that funded The Goon demo reel don't even get to see the demo reel they helped support. I don't see how you can objectively say that's not worse than a film-funding project where backers at least get to view the finished product.

And yeah, it's lame that the reward is a livestream, but as a result the movie will be instantly pirated. So if you really want a "digital download" copy, I think that as a backer you can kinda ethically justify just downloading a Divx movie file of the stream from Pirate Bay. At that point you're just time-shifting your viewing of something you already paid for.
 

Wiktor

Member
For gaming the celebrities Kickstarters have been the best thing to happen to the smaller ones too, as they increased the cash flow to smaller projects. A lot of niche successes would never happen if it wasn't for the big boys raising the interest in the whole model.

I doubt it will be any different with movies.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
Stop blaming Zach Braff for 'ruining' Kickstarter and indie art

The Guardian said:
Let's be honest, the backlash against Zach Braff's new crowdsourced movie project is directed towards capitalism more than Braff himself.

Last month, the former Scrubs star took the bold step of using Kickstarter, a crowdsourcing site that entrepreneurs and artists use to try to fund projects by offering a range of incentives in exchange for money, to fund a new movie, Wish I Was Here – a "sequel in tone" to the 2004 indie hit Garden State. Braff is offering everything from a "production diary", for $10, all the way up to the opportunity to be a cast member for $10,000.

In the past the site has been used by artists with cult followings, who would otherwise be unlikely to be funded via the usual bureaucratic-capitalist routes. The appearance of a successful Hollywood actor using Kickstarter may have made some justifiably annoyed, especially when Braff smashed his $2m target in three days of setting up his page.

Braff makes it fairly clear in his videos that funding the film is a vanity project. He cites his desire for complete artistic control as justification for asking fans to help him out (and of course, he defensively states that he is also putting in an "ass-ton" of his own money, to bring the actual budget to about $6m). While it is certainly a romantic notion (and God forbid any British actor attempt to do something like this), one wonders if the fans, who were going to pay to see and buy the final film anyway, are going to get their money's worth. Relatively speaking, they are. While critics may snort at forking out $5,000 just to sit at some actor's table at a movie premiere, the fact is that this offer sold out almost immediately, and will probably end up being one of the most exciting nights of their lives for those five backers .

If we want to talk the ethics of this, donors are not being "ripped off" because the surplus-value of what Braff is offering – the profit from the backers' rewards – is visibly going towards the film rather than just to line someone's pockets, which is a lot more ethical than most profit ventures. It's funny how reasonably priced these novelties seem when nobody is profiteering; a large, autographed Braff print averages about $75 on Amazon. It comes with T-shirts, a soundtrack, a choice of print, an invite to a screening, a script and more, for only $50 extra on Kickstarter. The issue is that Braff refrains from offering giveaways of the actual film when it comes out so that, presumably, these fans will be paying for the film twice.

This is where some detractors are annoyed: if the film becomes a commercial success, its backers will see none of the money, though they helped get the project off the ground. But this is not how Kickstarter has ever worked, nor the movie industry, and thus seems to be more a criticism of capitalism than Braff himself. He isn't pretending to be a Marxist, but the transparency of the process inevitably opens up for this critique. It's arguably disingenuous not to mention who will enjoy the profits of the final release, as presumably, Braff won't only ensure the "integrity" of his movie, he'll get the greatest cut. Yet where else do consumers make this their business?

A more pertinent question is what this could mean for the traditional users of Kickstarter if this become a trend. The idea that Hollywood film proposals will lure away donors from projects that actually depend upon crowdsourcing sites doesn't really hold up. Kickstarter donors tend to listen to the entrepreneurs in whom they're already interested, rather than just cruise the homepage looking for worthy causes.

This isn't the demise of indie success stories. Braff himself points out that the day that he released his project, Kickstarter had its highest traffic day ever, and that this seems to have at least given a small boost to other projects. Whether you agree with him or not, Braff has brought the site a lot of positive attention, and his film probably won't hurt the more traditional and needy projects that made Kickstarter what it is.
 

Massa

Member
Fair enough, you get to watch the movie once, on a livestream (which hopefully won't cut out and which hopefully will be in HD).

Of course, if you're not in the US, this means getting up in the middle of the night sometime, hopefully on a day you don't have to work the next morning.

Seriously, most other kickstarters offers a digital download of the movie, it's not that hard and it's the LEAST a movie kickstarter should offer for 20~30 dollar reward tiers and above.

I think of Kickstarter as a means of making a project happen, not a pre-order system.
 
I hate how all these columnists are missing the point of why this Kickstarter is bad.

It's bad because Braff is using his celebrity to fund a movie. Normally, Kickstarters get funded because people want to see a certain product get made so they can get their hands on it. Which means, they are basically prepaying for a product they would want. Braff however is not giving you the product, you are paying for the privilige of Braff getting to make this movie.

Now, anyone can spend their money whichever way they want, but I find it ludricous that so many people are willing to pay money for the chance this movie might play at a local theatre (US only of course) so they can pay extra money (which goes directly into Braff's pocket) or pay another 10 to 20 dollars to get a physical copy of the movie (which goes directly into Braff's pocket).

That's right, people are paying Braff to make this film and then, after he makes his movie with all the free money and graciously giving people a PDF of the script and a streaming link to songs he collected, he gets to cash in on the sales of this movie from those SAME people again.

It's such a pisstake I can't wrap my mind around how people are willing to back this project. You don't get the final product. Braff shamelessly profits from you TWICE over (Three times if you go to the theatre as well as buy the DVD or Blu-ray).

That's the real problem here, not that he's a celebrity, not that he has money himself. But that this is THE WORST kickstarter project in that it's a cash grab for Braff and the backers are letting themselves get exploited, because he is Zach Braff and they like Zach Braff. If you're gonna throw away your money, please find a local cause and donate your 30 dollars to that instead.

Just because most kickstarters offer the product to entice people to fund does not mean that's the only strategy to take nor does it mean using an alternate system is bad, wrong, or a rip off.

Each individual Kickstarter is free to offer whatever they'd like as a reward. It's up to the individual to determine whether or not those rewards are worthwhile. For many, simply having a hand in helping make a film that they believe they will enjoy is more than enough. I don't understand why you or anyone else can't accept that.
 

ultron87

Member
Giving money just to see the thing get made actually seems more in the idealized spirit of Kickstarter than the glorified pre-order system it actually is. Of course a glorified pre-order system is a much wiser financial investment for backers.
 

Ithil

Member
I've been hearing about "fatigue" and "backlash" since early 2012. But nothing of the sort has happened, yet, and a couple of lame kickstarters do not spoil all the good ones.
 

inm8num2

Member
Stole this comment from an IGN article.

Eventually and inevitably, a rapidly growing site like Kickstarter will reach a critical mass where its services will attract the interest of "big names" and large corporations. At that point it will indeed become increasingly difficult for smaller projects and those made by "unknown" individuals and companies to establish any sort of awareness, much less get the funding they need. The same could theoretically happen for Steam Greenlight or any service aimed at enabling small projects to get on their feet; the prospect of money being up-fronted by consumers would simply prove irresistible to mega-corporations whose development budgets and exposure far exceed the Indies'.

My fear is that the increased digital distribution mechanic of upcoming game consoles will lead to an even worse situation than the industry is facing now; if EA, Activision, and other giants go all-in on Xbox LIVE and PSN, they will systematically push out, cannibalize, and eliminate smaller existing developers who already went digital...to escape the exact same thing happening to them at the brick-and-mortar retail level (yes, there's a reason many smaller developers' titles aren't available at your local Wal-Mart; the big companies make sure of it). Don't think for a second it won't happen; they'll make sure their "AAA" sequels are front-and-center on your dashboard store page and that everyone else is buried as far out of sight and mind as possible.

This is why I believe projects such as Kickstarter should exclude larger companies and those who already clearly have a decided financial and/or public awareness advantage (yes, even if said projects are for "creative" endeavors). It's the only way to keep the playing field at least somewhat level for the rest of us. As for Xbox LIVE and PSN, the digital realm is going to be the Last Stand for smaller and Indie game developers on consoles, and the console makers would be wise to do whatever they can to enable them to continue thriving for as long as possible. Because without them and the creative originality and genre diversity they bring, the demise of the small developer will effectively be the final nail in the coffin of the gaming industry.

Oh, and this quote by Braff is nonsense:

"It's not like when you go to the home page there's a big picture of me smiling at you," he continued. "You have to click through past a lot of other worthy projects to find it... It's just sitting there in a corner of the site."

You go to the homepage, search "Braff", and his project pops up. You don't "click through past a lot of other worthy projects." LOL.
 
You go to the homepage, search "Braff", and his project pops up. You don't "click through past a lot of other worthy projects." LOL.

Uh.. actually you do have to click through projects. From the homepage.. to find his project without actively searching for it I have to click the very first View All link I see, then click Film & Video on the sidebar, then click View All under the Popular subsection. During that navigation I actually do "click past" a good number of projects.

Arguing that you have to search his name doesn't counter his statement at all.. because at that point you'd be intentionally looking for his project. In which case you weren't likely to donate to something other than his project in the first place.
 

inm8num2

Member
Uh.. actually you do have to click through projects. From the homepage.. to find his project without actively searching for it I have to click the very first View All link I see, then click Film & Video on the sidebar, then click View All under the Popular subsection. During that navigation I actually do "click past" a good number of projects.

Arguing that you have to search his name doesn't counter his statement at all.. because at that point you'd be intentionally looking for his project. In which case you weren't likely to donate to something other than his project in the first place.

No. The "clicking through projects" point doesn't work because unless you know what you're looking for, you're just randomly browsing. Braff is saying that in order to find his project (meaning that you are looking for it) you have to go through other ones. That's not true. But if he's talking about random browsing, then of course his project would be mixed in with the rest and you wouldn't know when it might come up as you click past other projects.

His comment doesn't bother me, but it sounds like he's trying too hard to make his project seem like it's benefiting others by its sheer presence.

BEIh2dJ.png
 
No. The "clicking through projects" point doesn't work because unless you know what you're looking for, you're just randomly browsing. Braff is saying that in order to find his project (meaning that you are looking for it) you have to go through other ones. That's not true. But if he's talking about random browsing, then of course his project would be mixed in with the rest and you wouldn't know when it might come up as you click past other projects.

His comment doesn't bother me, but it sounds like he's trying too hard to make his project seem like it's benefiting others by its sheer presence.

Actually, what he's saying there is that his project being on the site isn't taking attention away from other projects. It's a response to the argument being thrown at him that if he didn't use Kickstarter, Joe Fan's $30 would go to an unknown/upstart Filmaker that has no other option aside from Kickstarter for funding.
 

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
The true purpose of crowdfunding, some say, is to offer creative types with no Hollywood connections a chance to pursue their dreams through small donations.

I feel like people such as these are misinterpreting Kickstarter's purpose. I'm pretty sure Kickstarter never wanted to be unknown-only. They're a company. They want the big hitters.

If you don't agree with it, start a non-profit Kickstarter clone that focuses exclusively on unknowns. Otherwise, I see the celebrities as attracting larger audience to Kickstarter some of which may back other projects.
 

inm8num2

Member
From Quadrophenic

http://www.firstshowing.net/2013/za...-film-lands-josh-gad-and-gets-full-financing/

Just last month, Garden State director and "Scrubs" star Zach Braff turned to Kickstarter in order to help get his new directing effort, Wish I Was Here, off the ground as an independent production. Well, the film raised more than $2.6 million from more than 38,000 people, exceeding the $2 million goal, in about a week. Nice job, Kickstarter! Well, maybe not. THR has news that the Kickstarter response to Braff's film has actually inspired Worldview Entertainment to fully fund the project, and it seems like the campaign was just a pawn in getting a real company to back the project as opposed to just going the indie route. More below!

Supposedly a small percentage of the money raised from Kickstarter will be returned in the form of a fee to Kickstarter, though it's not clear what happens to the money after that. Basically, the issue here is that Braff's intentions to subvert the studio system and do things his own way without interference from a financial backer don't seem genuine at all now. With backing from Worldview Entertainment, the film isn't really what Braff purported the project to be from the beginning. I'm hearing that those who donated might still have time to cancel their contribution if they feel slighted.

Time to start pulling those pledges, people!
 
I wonder what the details of the financing are? Braff was clear pretty early on the 2 million wasn't enough to fund the film:

Now that you're officially film financiers, it's time to tell you a little more about how your film will become fully financed. Film financing is a smidgen complicated, but I shall break it down for you:

"Wish I Was Here" is a pretty ambitious indie film. It is larger in scale and scope than "Garden State". It's not a 2 million dollar movie. The budget will be comprised of 3 elements:

The money raised here on Kickstarter. (That's you. You rule. I love you.)
My own money. (Don't worry. A LOT! An ass-ton.)
Pre-selling select foreign distribution rights to a few countries.

The budget for the whole project will ultimately fall somewhere between 4 and 6 million dollars. I know that sounds like a lot of money. (And it is.) But just for some comparison, the studio version of this film would likely fall around 25 million.

I'm not defending Braff--I just thought it was clear that the Kickstarter funds weren't going to be enough to get the movie made.
 

inm8num2

Member
He said he was also partially financing the film but didn't disclose the amount.

He also said he would sell foreign distribution rights for the film (which is why he wouldn't be able to give a copy of the movie to backers LOL).

But now he has someone fully financing the actual production of the movie. What happens to creative control?
 

inm8num2

Member
Lucille Marron less than a minute ago

For heavens sake will people get it once and for all...our relatively small backing dollars-wise towards Wish I Were Here...is worth hundred-fold to us in being part of ZB's project. For my $forty contribution I receive many valuable and interesting benefits. Let it go detractors And naysayers!

I see ZB's backers have attended the Susan Wilson "School of Denial".
 

Quidam

Member

This has come from one source, hold your horses there chap

Tashbrooke speaking sense up in this thread! Firstly, this article from Firstshowing says that the studio is "fully funding" the film whereas the THR article says it will "fund much" of the film - Firstshowing is trying to imply that the money from Kickstarter is just going into Braff's pocket, which is patently untrue. As for this statement about a small proportion being returned via a fee to Kickstarter, I think this is THR not knowing how Kickstarter works - at the end of each successful, project, they take a fee as a percentage of the Kickstarter gross. This is standard protocol and not any conscious decision by Braff to give some money back.

There has been no deception here, so calm down people.
 
And that source is the Hollywood Reporter.

The Hollywood Reporter article says Worldview is doing "gap funding," not wholly funding the project. The Firstshowing article, which reads more like an editorial, takes a great deal of liberty with that info.

Gap funding, to me, paints a picture of paying for whatever extra funding is necessary that the KS, Braff, and the foreign rights proceeds don't cover.
 

And right at the top of the page of that link...

Update: Variety has a new report on this financing deal which changes the equation. In short, it says the funds from Worldview are gap financing, which is not at all what was reported earlier. To sum up, the production is doing foreign rights sales in Cannes, which we knew, and which Braff had disclosed weeks ago. Traditional loans against those sales may not come in fast enough to get the production going on schedule. So Worldview is, in essence, loaning that money to the production now so that it can move forward.

Producer Stacy Sher says “Worldview may end up providing nothing at the end of the day beyond the gap loan depending on how we do in Cannes.”

If Variety is accurate, then any assumptions made about “full financing” from Worldview could be quite wrong, as would be conclusions (such as mine) drawn from previous reports. Our original article follows, and we’ll update as calls are returned or other info comes in.
 
Ah, didn't see that when I read I earlier.

It was likely updated after you read the initial article. Not your fault really. But what it does highlight is that there are so many people who are itching to shit all over him for this project that one misreported article spread like wildfire though other "news" sources.

It's pretty pathetic reporting all around since no one (subsequent publications) bothered to check THR's original article for accuracy before going on tangents.
 

Xyber

Member
But now he has someone fully financing the actual production of the movie. What happens to creative control?

I'll just leave this here. From the latest kickstarter update:

— The story out there about the movie being fully funded by some financier is wrong.

I have said on here and in every interview I've done on this project that the film would be fully financed from 3 sources:

My Kickstarter Backers
My own money
Pre-Selling foreign theatrical distribution.
Those three amounts will bring us to a budget of around 5 to 6 million dollars.

— What happened today is that a financial company agreed to fill in the gap between what Kickstarter backers have funded and what I have put in, and what the movie will actually cost. Shooting could not happen without this.

When you pre-sell foreign distribution, you don't get that money for some time. So you need to go to a company to provide something called "Gap Financing". They are essentially a bank. Loaning us the "gap" between what we've raised together and what we need to actually make the movie. I have no idea where a 10 million dollar number came from but it is wrong and a lie.

— This loan is secured against proceeds generated by selling the foreign rights to the movie. That's been the plan all along.

This loan, helps us start! We're opening an office and casting and we're fully under way. We couldn't be doing that without "Gap Financing" to cover our... (wait for it) gap. As these foreign sales are occurring as we speak at the Cannes Film Festival, you will likely be hearing more and more about them. It is good for us! More eyes on our movie.

You seem so mad about this getting funded.
 

inm8num2

Member
I'll just leave this here. From the latest kickstarter update:



You seem so mad about this getting funded.

Not mad, just curious. That was a legitimate question based on the now debunked notion of the film actually being financed by Worldview.

We jumped the gun a bit based on the one story. I can admit that. :p
 

linsivvi

Member
People who hate the project or his works will find the most flimsy evidence and jump to conclusions, but I guess that's the state of journalism these days.

I expect the same reporters to write negative reviews of the film when it comes out, regardless of the film's actual quality.
 
Bringing this thread back from the grave, the movie did quite well at Sundance

Zach Braff loves Sundance, and Sundance loves him back.

It’s been 10 years since Braff made a big Sundance splash with “Garden State,” and now the “Scrubs” star is back with “Wish I Was Here,” which earned rapturous applause following its Saturday premiere at the Marc, and a standing ovation for Braff as he took the stage for the trailing Q&A.

It was an auspicious start for the first Kickstarter-backed project made by a known Hollywood star to play in front of an audience — Rob Thomas’ “Veronica Mars” won’t premiere until March — and bodes well for a quick sale in Park City. “Garden State” was picked up by Fox Searchlight and Miramax for $5 million in 2004, and went on to gross $35 million worldwide.
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/sundan...tarter-fueled-wish-rapturously-213619023.html

And reviews
US Magazine

Variety

Hollywood reporter
 
I enjoyed garden State and loved the soundtrack but I feel paying full price at the movie theater is as much as I should be paying for a movie.
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Never watched Garden State, is it really as good as people claim it is?


It is fantastic, especially if you can identify with depression/being medicated, or immature/superficial relationships with everyone around you.

It is about depression and figuring out how to deal with that, but also about high school level relationships post high school, defined by its setting in Jersey.
 

Symphonia

Banned
It is fantastic, especially if you can identify with depression/being medicated, or immature/superficial relationships with everyone around you.

It is about depression and figuring out how to deal with that, but also about high school level relationships post high school, defined by its setting in Jersey.
I should love it then.
 
Never watched Garden State, is it really as good as people claim it is?

I love Garden State..still holds up and has themes most guys on NeoGAF can relate to. Great soundtrack, which is part of why it was called The Graduate of our times.

Cannot wait to see this movie. I was funding it in spirit, as I was out of work last year and had literally nothing to donate but excitement. He'll have my ticket money on likely more than one viewing.
 
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