JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Whedon's fall from grace is somewhat interesting. Not too long ago it seemed like he could do no wrong.
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Zack Snyder's Justice League Coming to HBO Max in 2021
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Whedon's fall from grace is somewhat interesting. Not too long ago it seemed like he could do no wrong.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
David Ayer's Suicide Squad is also happening apparently
Hopefully we get all the Joker footage that was apparently cut.
AT&T offers glimmer of hope for David Ayer's cut of Suicide Squad
Justice League's Snyder Cut is coming to HBO Max, and a tweet teased the possibility of more DC do-overs.
www.cnet.com
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iconmaster
Banned
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I thought Aquaman and Shazam were fun. Not masterpieces but enjoyable imo
Your wish is for more Jared Leto Joker?
I wanna see everything Ayer did with him, at least. Maybe not another new film with him, but at least what Ayer intended for SS. It happened, might as well get the whole vision
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SirKicksalot
Member
Suicide Squad was meant to set up Justice League. This was the parademon design:
The original boss fight was never shot and other ideas were abandoned when JL was rewritten in the weeks after BvS tanked.
An Ayer cut was tested in competition with the studio cut that was eventually released, but it's still not the JL prequel it was meant to be.
The original boss fight was never shot and other ideas were abandoned when JL was rewritten in the weeks after BvS tanked.
An Ayer cut was tested in competition with the studio cut that was eventually released, but it's still not the JL prequel it was meant to be.
Snyder publically admitted he enjoyed Ayn Rand, and looks at the superheroes in a somewhat objectivist way.
Ever since then the leftist Twitter and progressives have hated this guy.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
This one from Vulture is even better - compares it to Trump and Brexit and says studios should have listened to other fan movements, such as the one to give Captain America a boyfriend
I stopped reading after the 3rd or 4th paragraph.
These nonces are such haters. With a lot of misinformation about the movie, pre-, post- and pre-mortem release. This writer knows NOTHING and comes off as a dilatant (sp?).
ManaByte
Gold Member
This one from Vulture is even better - compares it to Trump and Brexit and says studios should have listened to other fan movements, such as the one to give Captain America a boyfriend
The Vulture article is dumb, but it does link to this which gives a good history over the whole thing:
What I can still NEVER understand is how they went after Geoff Johns so bad.
Geoff Johns loves DC Comics more than ANYONE on this planet. He should be the Co-Publisher along with Jim Lee now that Didio is gone. But he's been branded "the snake" by these people.
(also Johns is completely responsible for the DC Universe shows Titans and Doom Patrol. And people seem to love those)
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Bolivar687
Banned
I read the Collider and Vulture articles and I can only reiterate how sad it makes me that people hold so much bitterness and resentment against these movies and their fans. I understand anyone who thinks Snyder's films are boring, pretentious, dour, or overlong, but the idea that they're somehow dangerous totally escapes me. Neither article succeeded in concealing their author's enduring grudge against gamergate or their imaginary parallels here. But I do think this similarly exposes the growing divide between the people who consume geek entertainment and the people who write about it, which is really only the political conscription of the professional class in modern society.
The career nerdists spent so much time and energy punishing Snyder for not recreating their own childlike memories of these characters that they now cannot tolerate that a subset of the community likes these films, or that the people in charge might actually sympathize with us. The best I can speculate is that they begrudge Snyder's films for their treatment of consequences. Ironman is allowed to make jokes while Manhattan is falling into ruin but Superman can only grimace in agony knowing a room full of people were incinerated just to get to him. Everything in Snyder's films, including purely altruistic acts of kindness, have consequences to them, whereas the liberal blogger's entire existence is bent towards a politics of no consequences for failure, making mistakes, or lacking discipline.
I don't want to indulge in these feelings but I cannot lie, it does bring me tremendous joy knowing that these people lost, and that they already had lost while they were still writing articles about the Snyder cut never happening or the community hurting its chances of ever coming out.
The career nerdists spent so much time and energy punishing Snyder for not recreating their own childlike memories of these characters that they now cannot tolerate that a subset of the community likes these films, or that the people in charge might actually sympathize with us. The best I can speculate is that they begrudge Snyder's films for their treatment of consequences. Ironman is allowed to make jokes while Manhattan is falling into ruin but Superman can only grimace in agony knowing a room full of people were incinerated just to get to him. Everything in Snyder's films, including purely altruistic acts of kindness, have consequences to them, whereas the liberal blogger's entire existence is bent towards a politics of no consequences for failure, making mistakes, or lacking discipline.
I don't want to indulge in these feelings but I cannot lie, it does bring me tremendous joy knowing that these people lost, and that they already had lost while they were still writing articles about the Snyder cut never happening or the community hurting its chances of ever coming out.
SuperGooey
Member
I can't think of anything more embarrassing than the #releasethesnydercut cult. Star Wars fans are pretty bad, but at least there have been a couple good Star Wars movies. There are no good Zach Snyder films, especially MoS and BvS, and nothing could save JL from being anything other than a laughable pile of shit. Please, stop this quest for validation in you love for action figures punching each other.
PrCat88
Member
The hate boner is strong in this one.
Piku_Ringo
Banned
Joker 2019 baby
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Revolutionary
Gold Member
On the one hand, it's great that Snyder's cut will finally come to fruition and we can see what was meant to be.
But on the other hand, it's Zack Snyder and I don't think editing will 'save' the film.
Having said that, I am looking forward to seeing Darkseid in the flesh. But I'm almost 100% certain that the film/series won't be as good as Apokolips War.
But on the other hand, it's Zack Snyder and I don't think editing will 'save' the film.
Having said that, I am looking forward to seeing Darkseid in the flesh. But I'm almost 100% certain that the film/series won't be as good as Apokolips War.
ManaByte
Gold Member
The animated movies are usually better. Except when Bruce Timm has Batgirl fucking Batman.
Bolivar687
Banned
It's not an edit. The version Snyder completed was much longer and hardly any of it was used in the theatrical cut. Almost none of his Superman footage was used. The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg all had real origin stories and set ups to their own movies. It has a completely different score and composer. Other Justice League characters and villains beyond the main cast made appearances.
There's a very long and awesome Screen Rant feature breaking down all the changes but it kinda gives away everything about it:
Justice League: Every Confirmed Change to Zack Snyder's Version
So... what was the original like?
screenrant.com
Revolutionary
Gold Member
I know that. I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying they're editing Whedon's cut, I'm saying that the "Zack Snyder's Justice League" project is essentially re-doing the editing/post-production process because there is no new footage being shot - it's all about editing his footage the way he had originally intended (or close to it) before he had to step away from the original project.It's not an edit. The version Snyder completed was much longer and hardly any of it was used in the theatrical cut. Almost none of his Superman footage was used. The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg all had real origin stories and set ups to their own movies. It has a completely different score and composer. Other Justice League characters and villains beyond the main cast made appearances.
There's a very long and awesome Screen Rant feature breaking down all the changes but it kinda gives away everything about it:
Justice League: Every Confirmed Change to Zack Snyder's Version
So... what was the original like?
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It's not an edit. The version Snyder completed was much longer and hardly any of it was used in the theatrical cut. Almost none of his Superman footage was used. The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg all had real origin stories and set ups to their own movies. It has a completely different score and composer. Other Justice League characters and villains beyond the main cast made appearances.
There's a very long and awesome Screen Rant feature breaking down all the changes but it kinda gives away everything about it:
Justice League: Every Confirmed Change to Zack Snyder's Version
So... what was the original like?
It puzzles me how people just can't understand the theatrical release and the Snyder Cut are fundamentally TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's not an edit. The version Snyder completed was much longer and hardly any of it was used in the theatrical cut. Almost none of his Superman footage was used. The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg all had real origin stories and set ups to their own movies. It has a completely different score and composer. Other Justice League characters and villains beyond the main cast made appearances.
There's a very long and awesome Screen Rant feature breaking down all the changes but it kinda gives away everything about it:
Justice League: Every Confirmed Change to Zack Snyder's Version
So... what was the original like?
A guy on Era back in 2017 who worked on the movie posted what was Snyder and what was Whedon in the theatrical cut:
DCEU Era |OT| Crisis on Infinite Forums OT
It's something Marvel has made a point to do in every single one of their movies without exception and I can't understand why WB hasn't figured it out. It's a staple in pretty much all action movies too. Imagine if John Mcclane looked like this at the end of Die Hard instead of this
www.resetera.com
-superman in the cell phone footage is Whedon
- intro with Batman was Whedon, same with Batman in the plane talking to Alfred
- World without Hope montage was Snyder. The Lois bit with the empty bed next to her is actually from a later point in the movie repurposed for this
- Snyder original cut had the World without Hope montage go straight into Batman meeting with Aquaman in the village which went on longer as well. Same with their conversation after as Aquaman swims off
- Deleted Snyder scene with Martha and Lois talking in the apartment.
- Wonder Woman sequence in London is mostly all Snyder but trimmed down as the original had her taking out all the bad guys and additional slow-mo. Snyder loves his close up to convey information as there's a close up of the lead bad guy changing the gun from single to automatic mode after Wonder Woman stops the first bullet. Reshoots did add dialogue between Wonder Woman and lead bad guy before she stops all the bullets. This reshoot had everything finished to get it ready for the movie so I suspect this will be in extended version
- this cuts into the Amazonian which is Snyder and mostly not changed. A scene they removed was an Amazon being turned into a demon during Steppenwolf initial encounter. She kills herself before the transformation finishes. This shot was finished so maybe extended version
- anything with the russian family is Whedon
- Cyborgs dad talking to the janitor at Star Labs was Whedon
- Cyborg intro with his dad is a longer scene as well and Snyder . The scene starts with him looking at the people walking around the streets enjoying their lives as he looks on with envy.
- Wonder Woman meeting up with Batman while he repairs the jet was Snyder, them discussing the nature of the motherboxes on the Lake was Whedon.
- Thousand year battle is mostly the same in Snyder version, there was a back and forth between adding more focus on the Green Lantern or not. Darkseid actually showed up here as a visual stand in for Steppenwolf as one point the model wasn't quite ready yet.
- Flash scene filling out the forms and visiting his dad is Snyder
- Batman meeting Flash was Snyder. Whedon added 'people are slow, I'll try to keep up' bit
- Aquaman saving the man out in the sea was originally the end montage footage repurposed to here and it was Snyder. I believe the bits of him dumping the guy at the bar is Snyder as well
- Aquaman coming back as Steppenwolf tries and succeed in taking the motherbox is Snyder still. The only real change up is when Aquaman and Mera have a discussion which again went on longer and was a mix of both Snyder, Whedon and Wan as Aquaman was filming at the time
The discussion between Mera and Aquaman was deleted at some point and I believe someone fought hard for this to come back in the edit which I'm glad they kept in.
- janitor being taken by the demon is Snyder
- Woman on tv about her missing husband, Lois/Martha at the daily planet is Whedon
- Cyborg calling out to meet Wonder Woman and their meeting on the streets is mostly Snyder. There may be some minor bits with Cyborg as a reshoot but unsure. Alfred line about date night may have been ADR later
- Cyborg dad being kidnapped by demon to Gordon in the station to the gang meeting up on the roof and then heading to the sewers is Snyder but trimmed by a few seconds.
- Wonder Woman talking about 'doing this together as a team' and Cyborg 'didn't think you were real' were cut
- Flash panicking and Batman encouraging him to save one person is Whedon
- Cyborg saving his dad is mostly the same so Snyder.
- Wonder Woman openly taunts Steppenwolf was cut before shoving him through the wall. The fight is Snyder with added Whedon dialogue as Wonder Woman looks pissed Steppenwolf mentioned his axe having amazon blood on it.
- Flash interrupts Batman as he fights the demons, this is where the dodge sequence occurred and later cut. There was an attempt to keep it in for many versions with even a reshoot element of Flash saying 'I thought we were suppose to do this together!' Flash pushing the demon through the wall was later repurposed as Cyborg doing it. Most likely will not be extended version
- I believe Batman yells at Flash to ensure the Star Labs people are out with Cyborgs help as a demon starts to overpower Batman
- Scene with Cyborg getting people out as Flash looks on is cut
- the Flash getting people out one at a time is Whedon as is Cyborg dad explaining to him that they're after the box as Cyborg shoots a demon (repurposed from earlier)
- Batman fighting the demon on the higher level is Snyder with the WW fight still the same.
- Steppenwolf throws WW to the wall and then charges his axe at her which she dodges, this attack causes a chain reaction in which the building starts to crumble on the outside and there's now falling debris which leds towards a cut of the Star Labs people outside with the Flash. He see the debris falling so he uses his speed to punch the debris out of the way from the people but somehow misses the last big piece in which Cyborg shoots it out of the way. This was cut and in the original trailer:
This sequence had mostly finished VFX but I doubt you will see this in extended
- Batman saying 'my turn' is Snyder and is cut replaced with 'I didn't bring a sword' and 'he's tall' is Whedon.
- Cyborg asking Flash to go check on the others is cut. VFX was finished as well
- Flash helping WW with her sword is Snyder. Face plant joke after is Whedon
- Whedon reshoot of Flash replying with 'does he mean me?' when Steppenwolf mentions the Old Gods blood is cut
- WW doing her arm thing, Flash being taken by the demons, Cyborg taking over the vehicle and shooting at Steppenwolf and the flood is Snyder
- Reshot element from Wan of Aquaman emerging from the water to kick Steppenwolf before turning back to try to help slow down the flooding.
- 'did he just bail?' is ADR in, not part of Snyder original cut.
- Meeting up with Gordon and Cyborg coming back with the box is Snyder. Some scenes trimmed down
- Steppenwolf speech about finding the last box is mostly the same in Snyder.
- The gang going to the Batcave is Whedon, there was an extended scene with Flash and Alfred and Flash hugs Alfred some reason.
- The gang talking about the nature of the boxes and bringing back Superman is Whedon. Gal was not available during this time as she was doing press tour for Wonder Woman so her double was her stand in and even did some acting and that bit with her hitting Batman. In the wide shots if you look carefully you can still see that it's not Gal.
The footage of Gal was shot on a later date with green screen and composited in
- Batman talking to Alfred about Superman was Whedon
- Batman overlooking the ship is Snyder. Batman talking to Wonder Woman about the plan overlooking the kryptonian ship is Whedon
- the Lois shot from earlier in the opening montage movie was a part of this sequence as Alfred attempts to call her as well. Snyder
- break into the kryptonian ship was a longer, Cyborgs dad fakes a code red to get everyone out of the lab so the gang can get in without any major issues. There was some more additional dialogue with Flash and Aquaman. Snyder with a small chance that this may be in the extended
- preparing Superman body for the ship is Snyder.
- deleted scene - Cyborg having a premonition during his countdown. During the count of 'one' he starts to see things of possibly future events such as the end of the League, knightmare world and more importantly Darkseid.
- Superman resurrection and battle with the league members is mostly Snyder with bits trimmed down.
- Flash mentioning 'pet semenetary' is Whedon
- Flash actively tries to kick Superman during their fight which was cut
- Anytime Superman is talking during this is Whedon, even 'do you bleed?'
- Batman making a quip about if he's bleeding is Whedon
- Steppenwolf stealing the last box is the same in all versions
- Superman coming home to his farm with Lois is Snyder.
- Gang discussing their plan of attack now is Whedon
- Batman and Wonder Woman talking about leadership and her fixing his arm is all Whedon
- Superman talking about the ring is Snyder and cut. Superman talking to Lois in the field is Whedon. Not sure if Martha showing up to meet her son is Whedon or Snyder
- Steppenwolf preparing the unification is the same in all versions
- Cyborg finding the location is Whedon which leads to the gang getting on the ship is Snyder
- deleted scene of Superman coming back to the kryptonian ship and getting his suit back. VFX was finished so maybe extended version
- Aquaman with the lasso of Truth is all Whedon, Gal again wasn't here so body double in the wide shot with Gal elements being shot later
- Batman taking down the shield and the league helping each other out to reach Steppenwolf is Snyder. Close up of Wonder Woman smiling is a Whedon as well Batman making quips during this scene
- Deleted scenes - showing various people around the worlds reacting to the unification process as red skies and lightening start to happen (Martha/Lois, Cyborg Dad, Gordon, Aquaman village at the beginning, london and so forth)
- Trailer scene with Wonder Woman saying 'shall we?' with Aquaman and Cyborg was adjusted. 'Shall we' was cut and replaced with the new Whedon line
- Cyborg and Flash stuff here is mostly now all Whedon
- Batman telling Flash to get people to safety is Whedon
- lots of Wonder Woman and Aquaman fighting are adjusted or reordered but still Snyder
- Superman coming back is all Whedon. There was a wide shot of Superman during the 'I like truth' which was removed but the final edit of how it plays out is better in my opinion
- Superman with the slow mo punch dodge is Snyder. As before anything with Superman talking is Whedon during this finale
- Original previs was Wonder Woman cutting off Steppenwolf head but later changed. Steppenwolf demise was reworked a few times
- Steppenwolf fear demise through the boomtube is Whedon
- there was concept art showing the trinity looking through the end of the boomtube revealing Darkseid. Unsure if this element was ever filmed as the movie itself never had it in any version I saw.
- The slow mo shot of all of them with Flash fist bumping Cyborg is Snyder
- close up with the trinity is three different elements composited together as the actors were not available at the same time.
- the end montage is Snyder (yes, even that weird run Flash does) with Whedon element being Wonder Woman stopping the robbery in London
THE END
Flash doing the race with Superman = Whedon
Lex discussing forming their own league = Snyder
My main thought which was a better version:
- I believe that Snyder original version was more leading towards a UC style edit like BvS as I felt there was a lot of moments for the movie to breath but with some wtf ness in characters moments (flash basically standing around and doing nothing when he could do stuff) where as I feel Whedon had a lot more character beats and dialogue between them to punch it up.
- I'm not too sure if there will be an extended version but if there was I can easily see an additional 10-20 minutes.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
We already knew this but still
Becuase they were lied to by Warner Bro’s, who marketed the change as Whedon continuing on what Joss. Not Warner’s Bro’s using Snyder family tragedy to reboot the film
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
EXACTLY!
ManaByte
Gold Member
01011001
Banned
SuperGooey
Member
Fair enough response; though, I honestly don't feel anything for DC films other than embarrassment. I did enjoy Shazam a bit, and Joker was OK, but I have a question:
Do you really think a Zach Snyder cut will make Justice League a good movie?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Given that they re-shot almost the ENTIRE movie save for some scenes where you can tell it came from the original cut and not the re-shot scenes (that upper lip, fat Bruce, disjointed scenes that didn't go together, etc), there was almost nothing left of the movie that Zack shot in the theatrical release. They re-did the story, VFX and more to change to what the EXECUTIVES thought would help once Zack left to tend to his family after his daughter's suicide.
This is all confirmed from Zack, cast and crew...
Bolivar687
Banned
Yes, I love his DC films. Please do not misspell Mr. Snyder's first name (thanks).
PrCat88
Member
I think if you enjoyed 'Man of Steel' and 'Batman v Superman' then chances are you will enjoy this movie as this will be the followup Snyder was gearing towards when he made 'BvS'.
That said, if you hated 'Man of Steel' and 'BvS' then this movie probably isn't going to win you over, but would be worth seeing to compare and contrast alongside the 'studio/whedon' theatrical cut.
For me, I'm personally looking forward to watching Henry Cavill without a CGI jaw. That alone could easily make this film worth it.
There are other reasons though. Junkie XL was fired and replaced with Danny Elfman. While I enjoy Elman's work, he didn't have enough time to score this film and a lot of the music is variations of music from previous films like his 'Batman 89' theme, the John Williams 'Superman' theme, the Hans Zimmer 'Man of Steel' theme, etc. Like the film itself, it was a mishmash Frankenstein's monster of different ideas. So, I'm presuming Snyder will rehire Junkie XL to score the film as he intended.
A lot of the footage from the trailers, concept art and behind-the-scenes photos also paint a much larger film experience. Where as the theatrical cut was trying to fit under two hours I imagine this additional footage will help explore the characters and story.
And on that note, I've seen Snyder's extended cuts of 'Watchmen' and 'BvS' and I would recommend them over the theatrical cuts. Sure, they are 3 hrs long, but there's some pivotal scenes that I feel better enhance the experience and I hope that to be the case with 'Justice League'.
Also, I just want to take the time to appreciate how certain online critics and pop culture broadcasters were that the Snyder Cut wouldn't come out.
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sobaka770
Banned
Well 2020 had been terrible so far but at least we'll have something to laugh at in 2021. I'm not going to say anything new here but I find Zack Snyder visually talented but totally inept at telling a good story. I believe that Whedon parts were mostly the only good snippets in Justice League, because he actually knows how to write characters. Obviously the whole movie was a Frankenstein's monster anyway so it was doomed to failure. In any case after BvS and MoS a rational studio would not spend hundreds of millions of dollars on finishing that story in a 2 parter bloated mess of a movie anyway but I guess the gears were already turning.
This Snyder Cut is an internet meme going live and the genius of it is whether the actual result is surprisingly good, despite everything going against it, or terrifyingly bad like Snyder latest outings in both ways it'll be entertaining to see unfold so bring it on.
This Snyder Cut is an internet meme going live and the genius of it is whether the actual result is surprisingly good, despite everything going against it, or terrifyingly bad like Snyder latest outings in both ways it'll be entertaining to see unfold so bring it on.
ManaByte
Gold Member
PrCat88
Member
OK, nice misdirect from the footage compilation.
ManaByte
Gold Member
So I guess killing jews is OK when it comes to capeshit?
PrCat88
Member
Posting a compilation of people saying Snyder Cut doesn't exist=Antisemitism? That's quite a take.
ManaByte
Gold Member
No, but you're giving views (and thus money because his channel is monetized) to a guy who envisions himself as a Nazi soldier executing Jews in Hollywood.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
nah he's always been a mix of good and bad. i saw Alien Resurrection when it came out in the theater. that sick stunk.
yeah Man of Steel was 80% an incredible movie, one of the best Superman movies of all time and im a giant fan since i was a little kid. Snyder's got some magic in him yet imo.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
Look if you want to give support to to a guy who photoshopped his picture on a Nazi soldier executing a Jewish guy that's on you.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I didn’t say whole career.
People hold Firefly/Serenity in high regard, when The Avengers can’t our a decade later he was touted as a golden boy, somewhat
I don’t think I was that off-base
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
I wished for the One Piece dub to come back. The price was a global pandemic....worth itYour wish is for more Jared Leto Joker?
#Phonepunk#
Banned
this could be largely self flattery on part of the studio, Marvel being a big brand, hyping itself up, "look what a great job we did, this guy did this impossible and made comics cool again". the way they also congratulated themselves on the first black and woman comic book movies. in reality he and they are just above average but very good at promotion. this is bc they are now owned by perhaps the greatest promotional corporation of all time.
the more time goes on, the more i like the grimdark Snyder Superman. i appreciate BvS on the level of listening to Smashing Pumpkins or reminiscing about Hot Topic. it has that edge of teen angst. lots of movies try to be nihilist or subversive, but this is one i feel has that kind of emotional & visual tone going for it. scriptwise it was a mess but i think it was trying to do too much in one movie, it could have been two, maybe three. its clear Snyder had some kind of overarching storyline in mind. it would be cool to see him do stuff on a grander scale.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Nvm whatever
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
your not wrong he was definitely a hot item w a string of . i just think a lot of the time the industry likes to fluff itself up.
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PrCat88
Member
Do you have a backup of this vid that he did? You're really hard pressed on this guy. Also, I can't imagine a guy that's supporting a Snyder cut is actually antisemitic especially when the film itself includes members of the Jewish community. He's so against Jews that he wants to promote and give more money to Ezra Miller?
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ManaByte
Gold Member
In 2012 Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run was still fresh in people's minds and in an era of Ike Perlmutter and the Creative Committee having an iron grip on the Marvel movies, it came off as a win to have him direct the movie.