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[Kenai]

Atoms are these guys:

This is actually probably the simplest way to put it which is pretty hilarious.

 

[Foffy]

A dumb computer could continue to probe this particle indefinitely with no human operator and it would maintain its state. Not sure if that helps.

I wasn't making a distinction between "smart" things like humans and "dumb" things like computers, for they both exist as happenings in the cosmos.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I might be out of my depth here but my understanding is that the act of "observing" at that scale isn't a passive thing. You have to bounce something like photons off of the atoms in order to observe them.

Correct. Observing atoms at that scale is a physical interaction...imagine that the source of photons is a stun ray gun like of star trek fame.

 

[How About No]

Atoms are these guys:

Molecule :3

 

[Muppet of a Man]

This is actually probably the simplest way to put it which is pretty hilarious.

No, actually, it is not akin to this interaction at all on a physical level.

 

[Air]

So I think this indicates my line of thinking that things can't advance through infinitely-divisible space, and in fact it is only probabilities that determine that something has changed state/interacted with something else.

Meaning nothing really moves through space, probabilities just determine where things stand at a given moment. Something that interacts with nothing at all either doesn't exist, or is still interacting but on a very low probability basis. Meaning if a particle was to go very far away from anything in the universe, it would be increasingly less "real" in a deterministic sense; it might no longer be exactly where we would think it would be, but in many possible places at once, and only probabilities will define where it ultimately is after interactions increase again (for example, if a meteor got increasingly close to where that particle might be).

So Zeno was kind of right.

In a way we can see probabilities as a form of gravitational force; a particle "smears" across space in all directions at the same time, but probabilities will pull it into a specific direction, and those probabilities are basically the sum of all other states at a given time. Something is more probable if more interactions are occurring.

This is a very interesting idea. Do you have any links you could share that dive deeper into this?

 

[yogloo]

The Zeno effect applied to real life.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

You obviously are using a tool to observe these things in the first place. It's not simply because you are spectating them with your eyes.

Exactly. Not as mind baffling when you think of it this way.

 

[Kelsdesu]

God needs to patch this ASAP

Yo! Hahaha. You sir win the internet today

 

[Muppet of a Man]

the method of the observation is enough to induce stabilization for the atom


like.. hmmm.. imagine there's a ball rolling across the field, being moved by the wind. To measure it's size, you have to walk up and put a string around it. The string will stop the ball from moving. the ball doesn't "know" it has a string around it and stopped, your measurement method stopped it.

This is another good metaphor for what is happening.

 

[Walpurgis]

If you think you understand Quantum Mechanics, you do not understand Quantum Mechanics. -- My Quantum Mechanics professor

Seriously cool research. Didn't know of this effect but it seems to follow naturally from collapsing the wave form. Awesome stuff.

Oh my god! Do we have the same teacher?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Everytime I hear about this it makes me feel like we're in The Matrix and we've discovered a glitch in the system. They're going to reset us, yo.

I see what you did there : p

 

[GaimeGuy]

I think this is more "time stops in its tracks for an (unstable) atom when it is observed (or interacted with) in some fashion."

The strangest thing is, though, when they still had the measuring devices active, but the data recorders inactive, the atoms went back to behaving like waves.

 

[Mindlog]

Everytime I hear about this it makes me feel like we're in The Matrix and we've discovered a glitch in the system. They're going to reset us, yo.

Forever Free was such a disappointment.

 

[Vermillion]

If you think you understand Quantum Mechanics, you do not understand Quantum Mechanics. -- My Quantum Mechanics professor

Seriously cool research. Didn't know of this effect but it seems to follow naturally from collapsing the wave form. Awesome stuff.

Oh no no no!

I never said I understand quantum mechanics; that would be ridiculous!

 

[Foffy]

Oh my god! Do we have the same teacher?

Isn't that line of phrasing used more for concepts like Taoism, Zen, and Brahman? I've heard it used long before Quantum Mechanics was an established field in those philosophical domains.

 

[peakish]

Oh no no no!

I never said I understand quantum mechanics; that would be ridiculous!

Lol, I was actually targeting your second sentence. No-body knows why it happens!

But apparently some famous asshole plagiarized my professors's quote so nevermind

 

[3phemeral]

The strangest thing is, though, when they still had the measuring devices active, but the data recorders inactive, the atoms went back to behaving like waves.

Are you referring to this?:

The researchers observed the atoms under a microscope by illuminating them with a separate imaging laser. A light microscope can't see individual atoms, but the imaging laser causes them to fluoresce, and the microscope captured the flashes of light. When the imaging laser was off, or turned on only dimly, the atoms tunneled freely. But as the imaging beam was made brighter and measurements made more frequently, the tunneling reduced dramatically.

I'm not finding anything about a recording device turned off other than this example of "tuning" to force classical behavior by increasing laser-pulse frequency.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Are you referring to this?:



I'm not finding anything about a recording device turned off other than this example of "tuning" to force classical behavior by increasing laser-pulse frequency.

Exactly. A highly focused and concentrated stream of photons is a physical phenomena. a physical interaction occurs when it is pointed at the target particle.

 

[TronLight]

So the atoms of my monitor screen aren't moving right now, the ones of the wall behind my back are?!

 

[Turin Turambar]

With astronomy we are interacting with the light those objects have sent towards us. Measurement of that light destroys the photons that object has sent towards us.

Gravitationally, we are interacting with everything in the universe right now, as an aside.

That is one of the thing I never understood, and I read a pair of quantum mechanic books.

Physicists try to observe x subparticle at rest, but of course it's impossible, as to observe it you have to poke at it with a single photon or something like that, and then it starts to behave classically instead of a quantum wave or whatever. But... isn't every particle in the universe already interacting (or being "watched by") a zillion of other particles close by, by the gravity force, the weak and strong nuclear forces, etc etc? Which technically, it's a form of entanglement.
I can't only think it isn't a binary thing, but really there is a gradient of interaction/entanglement, and things start being "classical" as they reach a limit.

 

[makingmusic476]

So a watched pot actually never boils?

 

[3phemeral]

So a watched pot actually never boils?

Maybe if it were a quantum pot being blasted by pulsing eye lasers.

 

[FyreWulff]

That is one of the thing I never understood, and I read a pair of quantum mechanic books.

Physicists try to observe x subparticle at rest, but of course it's impossible, as to observe it you have to poke at it with a single photon or something like that, and then it starts to behave classically instead of a quantum wave or whatever. But... isn't every particle in the universe already interacting (or being "watched by") a zillion of other particles close by, by the gravity force, the weak and strong nuclear forces, etc etc? Which technically, it's a form of entanglement.
I can't only think it isn't a binary thing, but really there is a gradient of interaction/entanglement, and things start being "classical" as they reach a limit.

My understanding of quantum mechanics is surface level, but I think the idea here is how much interaction/energy in one 'local' space matters. Much like how space itself is expanding, but the gravity of the galaxy overcomes that stretching and keeps everything in the local area together, hence why we don't witness our galaxy or planet slowly stretching out, but we can verify light being redshifted since the space between us and distant galaxies is being stretched out.

So the gravitational effect from the rest of the universe is super weak.

 

[Orbis]

So the atoms of my monitor screen aren't moving right now, the ones of the wall behind my back are?!

Yes and they are plotting to kill you.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Yes and they are plotting to kill you.

So cute!

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

That's really strange.

 

[GaimeGuy]

That's really strange.

Welcome to the universe

 

[3phemeral]

So the atoms of my monitor screen aren't moving right now, the ones of the wall behind my back are?!

 

[Hexa]

A watched pot never boils.

Edit: Beaten. Damn it.

 

[Rest]

This is mind bottling. I always heard this said, and thought it was some misunderstanding caused by a lack of knowledge, that we simply didn't know enough yet to understand what really would happen, and that lack of data lead to an invalid conclusion. This is so strange.

 

[Chinner]

so if a scientist constantly observes me i will live forever?

 

[FyreWulff]

so if a scientist constantly observes me i will live forever?

If the scientist is traveling at light speed past you, yes.

Although you have bigger problems like that scientist ripping the earth apart from his infinite mass

 

[Razorback]

Quantum superposition humor. Love it.

 

[Chinner]

If the scientist is traveling at light speed past you, yes.

Although you have bigger problems like that scientist ripping the earth apart from his infinite mass

are you flirting with me

 

[onipex]

So shine a laser on an atom and it stops. One step closer to my timestop machine.

Then don't (or do) watch this.

Ha! Called it!

 

[Two Words]

So atoms are like the toys in Toy Story?

 

[Icyflamez96]

Hmm

 

[Vagabundo]

So the atoms of my monitor screen aren't moving right now, the ones of the wall behind my back are?!

Wrong way of looking at it. Your eye atoms aren't moving because your monitor is blasting it with photons collapsing its waveform.

 

[hal9001]

Nvm

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

So what you're saying is; if a tree falls in the middle of the woods and no one is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound?

 

[Foffy]

So what you're saying is; if a tree falls in the middle of the woods and no one is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound?

Define no one, first. Nature has living things in it. Is bacteria not life?

 

[Brakke]

This is mind bottling. I always heard this said, and thought it was some misunderstanding caused by a lack of knowledge, that we simply didn't know enough yet to understand what really would happen, and that lack of data lead to an invalid conclusion. This is so strange.

Mind... bottling?

 

[GaimeGuy]

So what you're saying is; if a tree falls in the middle of the woods and no one is around to hear it, then it doesn't make a sound?

Sounds is our brain's perception of vibrations in our eardrums. So if no one is around to perceive those vibrations, then no, the tree doesnt make a sound.

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

just like close your eyes or like you know look over there for a second

 

[Ultrabum]

The problem with these things is "being watched" really means being bombarded with photons/particles.

It's not like these things defy he second law of thermodynamics or anything.


It's not the same as watching something in the macroscopic world.

 

[Rest]

Mind... bottling?

Yeah, mind-bottling. You know, when things are so crazy it gets your thoughts all trapped, like in a bottle.

 

[Joyful]

Sounds is our brain's perception of vibrations in our eardrums. So if no one is around to perceive those vibrations, then no, the tree doesnt make a sound.

PAS (Potentially Audible Set)
everything was videogames

 

[Scrooged]

Sounds is our brain's perception of vibrations in our eardrums. So if no one is around to perceive those vibrations, then no, the tree doesnt make a sound.

That's a very limiting definition of sound. So if a tree falls next to a deaf person, it still makes no sound? Nah. The pressure wave that moves the air is sound. What we hear is our perception of sound. Not sound itself.

 

[GaimeGuy]

That's a very limiting definition of sound. So if a tree falls next to a deaf person, it still makes no sound? Nah. The pressure wave that moves the air is sound. What we hear is our perception of sound. Not sound itself.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)