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[Yoshi]

As incredibly bad as it may sound, justice is not about making the victim feel better by punishing someone else. The “what else could person A do but try to ruin this person’s public and private life? Go to the cops... yeah, but with what proofs?”... this is what leads to innocents being hanged by the state to please the crowds as it used to happen... or they would fire on the crowds and burn revolting villages to the ground too... I guess people not been too too angry at the prospect of going from “better a guilty person free than an innocent in jail” to “better an innocent in jail than a guilty person free” would also not mind the latter shift in statesmanship .

I do not think you understood quite right what I wrote. I was never condoning going to Twitter to accuse people of crimes. On the contrary, that's what the legal system is for.

I was talking about the call for Quinn to face consequences if her accusations were wrong, to which I just said that the issue is, with imprecise accusations such as the ones she leveled here (at least in terms of rape), it is basically impossible to prove her guilt (in terms of libel). To prove her guilt it would be insufficient to be unable to prove her allegations, because Alec is not the one on trial then. If there are no proofs for the alleged rape, then Alec shouldn't have been convicted in a hypothetical court case and ideally, the court would be the only instance dealing with the accusation. But on the other hand, I do not think that Quinn should face legal consequences just because she is unable to prove beyond a doubt that the rape accusations were true. Which is why I said presumption of innocence is an insufficient answer to that point.

 

[SonGoku]

This is so sad and infuriating at the same time, something has to be done about this
Cunts like zoe shouldn't be allowed to freely run their mouth ruining peoples lives. This constitutes witch hunting, defamation and targeted harassment, twitter shouldn't allow this, twitter isnt the platform for sexual assault reports without a shred of evidence.

There should be government regulations that protect employees from being fired over allegations and twitter witch hunting campaigns just like they protect people from being fired over sex, religion, politics, sexual orientation etc.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wait I'm still confused. Did Alec really raped Zoe? Even if he did she should've gone to the Police instead of tweeting about it. If someone rapes me or threaten me and my family I would straight go to the police with all the evidence, not wait and tweet about it after a really long time.

From my understanding it wasn't a rape accusation, more of a controlling relationship and something about walking around with his fingers inside her Cunth.

There is plenty of shit going about this situation... public shaming knowing an internet mob would form and harass the person and the company he worked for, the company caring only how their public image was and shows how much they care about their employees (if they were covering it up before or if they just fired him now for the accusations posted online... there is no scenario where they are the morally innocent guys here), the mob’s thirst for blood not being satiated... the manifest impossibility for redemption (unless you are James Gunn... not that he should have been the mob’s target to begin with...).

 

[TraceTheTong]

Alec killing himself is really bad news, and I wish all his family the best.

Concerning Alec's death, Quinn deleted her twitter entirely, as did Night In The Woods devs, Scott Benson and Bethany Hockenberry.
Not surprised Quinn deleted her twitter, as especially since it can be used in evidence against her. I don't know why Scott and Bethanry deleted thier accounts. Acting on adrenaline, perhaps. Anita's twitter account is still online, though it is currently very, very silent.

It's just become too real for everyone.

I hope that it teaches people a lesson in innocent until proven guilty. I hope it gives opinion piece article writers a pause to think "the way these things are reported matters" and I hope it gives the twitter court of opinion pause to think before they type. You can't just dogpile people, you have read and think. I hope it gives us time to consider that this site should be for discussing games.

I doubt we'll see much of Quinn any more. If she is smart, she's hiring a lawyer and a PR wizard and has thrown her phone in the bin. In theory, the press should be hounding her for a statement on the event but somehow I don't think they will. This might be the only time in history that press gives victims respectable distance, but it's probably because they have no idea how to approach it. It's totally fucked their narrative.

I made an offhand comment about Alec's appearance in a post in this thread. It wasn't relevant to the topic and in poor taste, it's in poorer taste now. So I'd put my hand up and retract that, it's not needed. Sorry Alec, rest well mate.

The ResetEra thread on this is bounced between shock and self defense and was then locked. I reckon that is for the best.

Go play some games. I'm going to hop on MGS5.

 

[Hudo]

I am disgusted at how the people on Twitter and some forums abuse terms like "depression" and "I was sexually assaulted/raped". 95% of the time, they just throw those terms around for personal gain, for some sort of acknowledgement from others. It's their entry card for a narrative that will ensure that people "care" for a while. And that's sickening. That's beyond disrespectful to all the victims who really suffer from any kind of abuse and who really suffer from depression. Those who really suffer don't go to Twitter and tweet about it. In fact, they usually isolate themselves and have big trouble talking to people at all, especially about topics like those. At least from my limited experience (I know a person that has been a victim of rape).

It makes me pretty angry to see that all those motherfuckers who scream about rape and depression online, only comprehend this as a game. It's a narrative for them, an act, a play. Quinn and her followers only have proven that they don't understand what they are talking about in the slightest. And they want to run a foundation caring for abuse victims? That's like me running a hospital because I've seen Emergency Room when I was a kid.

People who think that they "fight" abusers by going to Twitter and spread stuff without providing any evidence are exactly behaving like the people they claim to "fight against". The reasonable thing should be to go to the police, go to specialists (psychologists etc.) who are not only equipped to deal with situations like this, but who have been established exactly to help with situations like this. People who think that doing this shit on the internet is a solution, are, in fact, the problem. They are making it worse for everyone, especially for real victims.

I'm just so tired of all of this. It's tiring as hell. It's fucking unfair to the people who really need help. I am usually not one for revenge, as I think that revenge only worsens the situation, but I really wouldn't mind to see all of those, treating depression and abuse like a game, behind bars. I hope that Quinn et al. will face legal consequences for this. And fuck his sister for throwing her brother under the bus, she is even worse than fucking Quinn. That Quinn didn't go to the police is proof enough that she wasn't raped and can't provide proof that she was.

And ERA being like they are is nothing new here. They were behaving equally disgusting when the whole Etika thing happened. None of them know what abuse, depression and rape really is and feels like. You don't go around and play with things like that.

A girl asked me once why I sometimes am such a miserable misanthrope... well...

 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Quinn: X abused me
internet mob: X IS A MONSTER! SHAME SHAME!
people: this is for a court and a personal matter
internet mob: GRRRRRRRRRRARRRRRRRRRRRR FYCJ T+++ FUCK YOU FUCK MR X HOPE HE GETS WHATS COMING TO HIM
Quinn: ohno my mentions
internet mob: BELIEVE WOMEN X IS JUST ANOTHER AWFUL MAN AND AWFUL MANS HARMING QUINN
*X Kills himself*
*people look over at mob and Quinn*
internet mob: Let's be empathetic and nice about this
Quinn:

 

[GreyHorace]

So Zoe acknowledged that Alec apologized to her for the way he acted towards her, and yet she still posted this story on Twitter, knowing full well he was seeking treatment for his mental issues? If so then fuck her. This was a private matter between them and the fact that she posted it so soon after the Jeremy Soule accusations proves to me that she did it for the attention.

Now I don't think she wanted him to kill himself, but she still accused him of wrongdoing on public platform like Twitter. Did she really think the outrage mob would go easy on him? She bears some responsibility for what happened, no question.

Also:

RIP



"Please don't exclude me from the woke group."

With sister like this I would consider ending myself too.

That sister is a real piece of work. I guess that means no one is taking Quinn to court over this. Which sucks.

 

[MizzyLone]

Wait I'm still confused. Did Alec really raped Zoe? Even if he did she should've gone to the Police instead of tweeting about it. If someone rapes me or threaten me and my family I would straight go to the police with all the evidence, not wait and tweet about it after a really long time.

From what evidence has been presented, it seems like they were in a very toxic relationship after she had just left another even more toxic relationship.

She forgave the super bad guy and transferred all her bad feelings on the toxic rebound instead of the person that should have taken that hate.
[/QUOTE]

Alright then, she just bullied him to the point he couldn't take it and committed suicide. that should at least get her some jail time.. If not then we might lose some more people over these baseless accusations. IF someone accuses me over something and everyone I know cut ties with me the game/ project I'm working on is canceled and no one is there for me to hear my side of the story then I would too commit suicide. That's how human mentality works. I can't imagine what the dude went through.... Just sad.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I do not think you understood quite right what I wrote. I was never condoning going to Twitter to accuse people of crimes. On the contrary, that's what the legal system is for.

I was talking about the call for Quinn to face consequences if her accusations were wrong, to which I just said that the issue is, with imprecise accusations such as the ones she leveled here (at least in terms of rape), it is basically impossible to prove her guilt (in terms of libel). To prove her guilt it would be insufficient to be unable to prove her allegations, because Alec is not the one on trial then. If there are no proofs for the alleged rape, then Alec shouldn't have been convicted in a hypothetical court case and ideally, the court would be the only instance dealing with the accusation. But on the other hand, I do not think that Quinn should face legal consequences just because she is unable to prove beyond a doubt that the rape accusations were true. Which is why I said presumption of innocence is an insufficient answer to that point.

What is your point then? Sure, the company the guy worked for has responsibility, so does each person in the mob that mobilised, but she knew... she ducking should have known this could happen... public accusation + internet mob = job loss, everyone cutting ties with the person == victory?

I bet that nobody expected him to take his life... but then she knew him so well not to know of his depression and that destroying his life with no support network might have done that? It is a super shitty situation and It looks like the mob is washing theirs hands off it.

 

[Ivellios]

Wait I'm still confused. Did Alec really raped Zoe? Even if he did she should've gone to the Police instead of tweeting about it. If someone rapes me or threaten me and my family I would straight go to the police with all the evidence, not wait and tweet about it after a really long time.
[/QUOTE]

From what i understand, there is actually no way know, since the only evidence is a Twitter post.

 

[Scopa]

Cunts like zoe shouldn't be allowed to freely run their mouth ruining peoples lives.

As much as it can be an inconvenience to give up something you enjoy, the only way to make sure hideous people like Zoe Quinn get no attention (and therefore unable to harm more people) is to boycott any gaming personality or publication that gives her a platform and time of day. Equally ResetEra, for that matter.

- gaming websites that put her in a positive light. Never click on them again.
- podcasts that stan for her. Unsubscribe.

Fuck all these pieces of shit. They are all complicit.

 

[Outrunner]

Alright. Quinn deleted her twitter. Now when will Resetera delete itself too?

 

[the Guynecologist]

Jesus Christ. I thought this might backfire but not like this. Rest In Peace Alec. Goddamn. Damn you Chelsea, damn you to hell. And damn everyone who turned their backs on Alec. Even worse, I'm betting good money Chelsea will be back with another sob story about how she's the real victim of all this. Give it a week, maybe a month. Fuck. I feel sick.

 

[Panajev2001a]

From what evidence has been presented, it seems like they were in a very toxic relationship after she had just left another even more toxic relationship.

She forgave the super bad guy and transferred all her bad feelings on the toxic rebound instead of the person that should have taken that hate.

Alright then, she just bullied him to the point he couldn't take it and committed suicide. that should at least get her some jail time.. If not then we might lose some more people over these baseless accusations. IF someone accuses me over something and everyone I know cut ties with me the game/ project I'm working on is canceled and no one is there for me to hear my side of the story then I would too commit suicide. That's how human mentality works. I can't imagine what the dude went through.... Just sad.

What a shitty situation...

 

[TripleSun]

What a goddamn shitshow.. Rest in peace man

What a fucking day

 

[Yoshi]

What is your point then? Sure, the company the guy worked for has responsibility, so does each person in the mob that mobilised, but she knew... she ducking should have known this could happen... public accusation + internet mob = job loss, everyone cutting ties with the person == victory?

I bet that nobody expected him to take his life... but then she knew him so well not to know of his depression and that destroying his life with no support network might have done that? It is a super shitty situation and It looks like the mob is washing theirs hands off it.

I was initially answering to someone who said she should face consequences if her allegations were wrong, so my point on that was about "how would you even prove that", to which he answered with presumption of innocence, which in my view does not make much sense. But to state my position in a concise way:
- Twitter is not an appropriate place to complain about illegal behaviour (much less legal, yet bad personal behaviour). This should be dealt with in a public court.
- It is unknown whether Quinn's accusations are true or not, the correct thing to do would be to treat Holowka as innocent until a court case proves his guilt [which is of course not happening anymore]
- At the same time it is not known whether Quinn has lied, so it would be wrong to treat her as a liar (on this issue), just because the accusations against Holowka haven't been proven right
- I would wish, but have no high hopes, that people will learn that Twitter hate mobs (and invoking them) are deeply immoral, because they can only act on accusations, not proofs and have, except for the jail time, the same social consequences as a legal verdict of guilty. Which is unfair because there is no proper way to defend yourself against wrong or imprecise allegations leveled at Twitter. There is no judge, no jury, no attorney, just the court of public opinion, which is fickles, aggressive and unreliable.

 

[Doomtrain]

Holy fucking shit. Zoe Quinn is what genuine evil looks like. RIP Alec. Also: fuck Alec’s spineless ex-teammates. And fuck Twitter.

 

[Outrunner]

The lack of self awareness, for fucks sake.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I was initially answering to someone who said she should face consequences if her allegations were wrong, so my point on that was about "how would you even prove that", to which he answered with presumption of innocence, which in my view does not make much sense. But to state my position in a concise way:
- Twitter is not an appropriate place to complain about illegal behaviour (much less legal, yet bad personal behaviour). This should be dealt with in a public court.
- It is unknown whether Quinn's accusations are true or not, the correct thing to do would be to treat Holowka as innocent until a court case proves his guilt [which is of course not happening anymore]
- At the same time it is not known whether Quinn has lied, so it would be wrong to treat her as a liar (on this issue), just because the accusations against Holowka haven't been proven right
- I would wish, but have no high hopes, that people will learn that Twitter hate mobs (and invoking them) are deeply immoral, because they can only act on accusations, not proofs and have, except for the jail time, the same social consequences as a legal verdict of guilty. Which is unfair because there is no proper way to defend yourself against wrong or imprecise allegations leveled at Twitter. There is no judge, no jury, no attorney, just the court of public opinion, which is fickles, aggressive and unreliable.

I get your overall position, but in a single post you stated that presumption of innocence does not make much sense and then that it actually does (“ the correct thing to do would be to treat Holowka as innocent until a court case proves his guilt”) .

 

[cormack12]

It's just become too real for everyone.

These people live fully online. This is just an espiode of entertainment to them. Forgotten when the next big 'reveal' drops.

I also see 'super' is the new adopted adjective by these people as well. To follow in the footsteps of 'yikes', 'literally shaking' etc. At least it gives you an easy way to know who to avoid when skim reading for interesting and insightful posts. Did any of them stop to think 'Night in the Woods' was part of a larger exorcism for Alec. They're always talking about how video games are art and should be held to a higher standard, yet cannot even see past their own blind hatred to consider how much this could have played a part in his own rehabilitation. That's what Recovery Art is ffs. A lot of these people hide behind saying they have mental health issues, anxiety and all this other shit. I'm sorry but most of them are just hateful little shits who only want to do harm, while all backpatting each other about the 'hard lives' they lead, absolving themselves of all responsibility. Being used by the insane spreading influence of 'gaming jounalists' who seek to embed themselves in all communities to weaponise them on their crusade to stay relevant as they fall below the standards, demands and intelligence required to write for actual publications of note.

Not only are their opinions straight off a manufacturing line, but they are producing bottled hate. Thy are right about one thing, these people are not gamers.

 

[EviLore]

The lack of self awareness, for fucks sake.

I'm clearly the real villain in this story.

 

[MizzyLone]

The lack of self awareness, for fucks sake.

That's the shit you say when you're getting paid for not working for the past 2-3 years, No Killer Instinct new seasons, Extinction was like an Indie Game with probably the worst Art Style. The only difference here is Zoe didn't kill herself over every hate she got even though the hate was warranted and she deserved it but Alec did even though nothing was proven and he was innocent until proven guilty. If a prostitute comes to me and say she's been raped I would send her to a mental hospital.

 

[Kadayi]

Alec killing himself is really bad news, and I wish all his family the best.

Concerning Alec's death, Quinn deleted her twitter entirely, as did Night In The Woods devs, Scott Benson and Bethany Hockenberry.
Not surprised Quinn deleted her twitter, as especially since it can be used in evidence against her. I don't know why Scott and Bethany deleted their accounts. Acting on adrenaline, perhaps. Anita's twitter account is still online, though it is currently very, very silent.

It's just become too real for everyone.

I hope that it teaches people a lesson in innocent until proven guilty. I hope it gives opinion piece article writers a pause to think "the way these things are reported matters" and I hope it gives the twitter court of opinion pause to think before they type. You can't just dogpile people, you have read and think. I hope it gives us time to consider that this site should be for discussing games.

I doubt we'll see much of Quinn any more. If she is smart, she's hiring a lawyer and a PR wizard and has thrown her phone in the bin. In theory, the press should be hounding her for a statement on the event but somehow I don't think they will. This might be the only time in history that press gives victims respectable distance, but it's probably because they have no idea how to approach it. It's totally fucked their narrative.

I made an offhand comment about Alec's appearance in a post in this thread. It wasn't relevant to the topic and in poor taste, it's in poorer taste now. So I'd put my hand up and retract that, it's not needed. Sorry Alec, rest well mate.

The ResetEra thread on this is bounced between shock and self-defense and was then locked. I reckon that is for the best.

Go play some games. I'm going to hop on MGS5.

I'll be honest I think you expect too much from these people.

Also, nothing disappears from Twitter. The reason for the account deletions is the vague hope that legalities won't ensue, though if they're naive enough to think those accounts can't be pulled up from the archives they're demented.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Wait, what?! Alec killed himself?! I haven't been following this thread for a while. This is … I don't know what to say right now.

 

[Kagey K]

I'm clearly the real villain in this story.

Clearly everything that happens in the video games industry is your fault. It must be a burden to carry such responsibilities.

Why do you let shitty games happen and make good people die?

 

[kbear]

This was great, thanks for posting

 

[Scopa]

I'm clearly the real villain in this story.

Nah, you’re just infamous.

 

[MizzyLone]

I'm clearly the real villain in this story.

Yeah guess you were in the room with Alec shouting everything hateful in his ears, telling him how lonely he is and everyone he called a friend just left and how you destroyed his career and encouraged him to commit suicide... oh wait that wasn't you that was Zoe and her Lynch mob

 

[Hudo]

I'm clearly the real villain in this story.

Well, either you or the Epic Game Store! (shit is getting ridiculous...).

 

[FranXico]

Miss Quinn seems to be acquainted with the law, since she tried to remove evidence of cyber-bullying from the internet.

 

[The Scrivener]

Bad news all around. Peace to the developer, his game was amazing, and comments suggest he worked on the OST too, well, it's a stunning OST. His game, like his life, had a depressingly political twist come the end.

 

[Halo is Back]

Loot boxes, gambling, insane crunch times, sexual harassment (allegedly) running rampant, and SJW journalist........man Im glad I don't work in the game industry

 

[the Guynecologist]

This was great, thanks for posting

You should read his book, So You've Been Publicly Shamed, it's from 2015 but he nailed what real damage social media mobs can do to people's lives. Also find copies of some of his other books, Them is my personal favourite. In it he hangs out with extremists and tries to see what they all have in common. It ends with Jon breaking into Bohemian Grove with Alex Jones, it's one of the funniest stories I've ever read.

Just trying to lighten up the thread a little.

 

[A Regular Guy]

Good, go tell him what kind of sick of a person he is. See if he cares.

He's not gonna change his 'innocent until proven guilty' stance sooner or later. Well unless he himself got fucked up by this shitstom. Dude really is short sighted and brainwashed.

Short sighted? Yes! Not sure if brainwashed, but I really don't like how much he changed to appease to the mob of Era. The Chaz I knew a long time ago, before gamergate, was genuinely a good dude that wanted to get into the industry. But the Chaz I see now, is indeed doing it wrong. I just hope he realize that being part of a mob to gain industry insider info, is the wrong approach.

I do feel like I'm dragging him down right now, but I don't want Chaz to be destroyed, just wanted to point out his hypocrisy.

 

[Kagey K]

Loot boxes, gambling, insane crunch times, sexual harassment (allegedly) running rampant, and SJW journalist........man Im glad I don't work in the game industry

Man if you think the games industry is bad, you don’t want to see what happens in the name of big paper.

 

[MizzyLone]

Also, Anita just recently said that she made the #metoo campaign for video game industry, Hey Anita if you don't know, the #metoo campaign of entertainment led to a lot of investigation, Police was involved, a lot of evidence was presented and alot of actual shits were arrested meanwhile your #metoo Campaign led to no police investigation, no evidence was presented, all your campaign did was bully a guy to the point he committed suicide. GG Anita you are really an inspiration to the retards that just want to make money by making the industry as shitty as they can.

 

[cormack12]

Did metokur do a stream? Can't find it on bitchute

 

[oagboghi2]

Loot boxes, gambling, insane crunch times, sexual harassment (allegedly) running rampant, and SJW journalist........man Im glad I don't work in the game industry

Add on top of that you get paid less than other tech fields. I’m surprised the talent pool doesn’t shrink.

 

[Zaffo]

Add on top of that you get paid less than other tech fields. I’m surprised the talent pool doesn’t shrink.

You get paid for playing videogames and bitching about the latest political controversy, it's the perfect job for the modern blue haired 20 year old with no real world skills, a useless degree, and lots and lots of hot takes on why life is unfair to him.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

Nah, you’re just infamous.

 

[The Scrivener]

People on this thread have talked about how what happened is limited to a very small circle of gaming forums, but it seems awareness of the issue is very much alive with the talk of toxic masculinity. In fact, just Twitter search her name for a good shitshow. Radical feminists, trans activists, and games journalists are all coming to the support of ZQ.

 

[nush]

(unless you are James Gunn... not that he should have been the mob’s target to begin with...).

 

[petran79]

RIP



"Please don't exclude me from the woke group."

With sister like this I would consider ending myself too.

I am sure she wanted to lash out and even mention names. That tweet is far too calm for such a small time frame after the event. But I think she did the right thing, no need to stir the social media Civil War even more. Who knows what intimidating messages or phone calls they received

Let's hope the usual 14 year old idiots don't start insulting women and spewing rape threats.

I agree but if you are an adult and become depressed because of some 14 year olds, problem lies with you and the ones that leave you exposed to them

 

[cormack12]

 

[Nickolaidas]

Really interested to see if Eurogamer will update its article.

No? Okay, then.

 

[brap]

LOCK HER UP

 

[nush]

Did metokur do a stream? Can't find it on bitchute

Yeas, it was on Youtube and it was glorious. The SJWs tried to mass report his channel in advance of the stream so he took down all of his videos and deleted the stream as soon as it finished. he was one step ahead of the cat ladies.

 

[demigod]

The real crime is anyone dating Quinn, good grief she's a fucking 4 at best.

 

[Hostile_18]

Super sad day whatever happened for all parties concerned.

It's good to bring these things to light (if its genuine) and if not the legal consequences should be pretty serious. As others have said the police should be the first port of call.

It just shows though that the internet shouldn't be the judge and jury. For all we know either party could be innocent, or there is a middle ground where both parties acted wrongly etc.

People can be so reactionary without even knowing the facts. A level headed approach especially in these early stages is so important. Note to employers: suspending a colleague while an investigation takes place is the right way to go, not cutting ties the second an accusation is made to appease a outrage mob.

Resetera is nearly 100% Alex's guilty and even on here around 50% said Zoe was lying or insinuated it, especially earlier on in the thread when even less facts where known.

One verdict might be more likely than another but when we can't say to a high degree of certainty one way or another let's be respectful understanding of both parties and let the law decide..

 

[nkarafo]

I hope this is enough to bring era down for good. Those people are sick

If it becomes known to more people that it's a shitty place with shitty people that's great.

But i still prefer it exists. It contains these people so the rest of us can avoid them. It's also a central hub where they can be checked.