Toonami Shows Survivor

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Kill: Star Wars The Clone Wars
Kill: Star Wars The Clone Wars -Boring, Ugly show that puts me to sleep.

Save: Dragonball Z - For now I'll keep saving this just because.
 
Andrex said:
I know hating on DBZ is the hipster thing to do, but it really did have some great fight scenes, cool attacks, and memorable/likable characters. The pacing in the anime got pretty dull at times, but speaking outside the realm of this thread, that's more due to Toei than anything you can blame on Toriyama. The only thing Toriyama can be accused of is being formulaic, but that blame is better laid at the feed of Jump's editors.

What I can also say is that DBZ's filler is among the best there is, and the only filler arc it ever had was very short and fairly enjoyable. The same cannot be said of Naruto, One Piece, or Bleach, all of which have less-pristine filler records than DBZ.
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DBZ has two filler arcs. The first is better than the second. They also stretched what, three chapters into 12 or so episodes at one point? Ridiculous.

It still should win any Toonami popularity vote though without question.
 
MikeMyers said:
Sasuke (main character of Naruto) is the KING OF HATERED.

Sasuke is the deepest character since Hannibal Lector.
Click to expand...

He was driven insane by the simple fact that he'd never know what was under that mask.

ix5eV7n.gif
 
789shadow said:
I haven't even SEEN Dragon Ball Z.

As many times as you state the reasons why Dragon Ball Z is a bad show, your first reason for voting for it was shits and giggles.
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So you haven't even seen DBZ but vote to save it every round instead of a show you actually like? That makes no sense.

My reason for voting against DBZ is because I don't think it's a very good show, I've talked extensively in this thread about why I don't like it. You can take off the tin foil hat and stop putting words in my mouth now; DBZ is extremely overrated and gets by on nostalgia, I'm not just trying to be funny. I've been saying this all along, my stance hasn't changed.

I really think you're too emotionally invested in this sily game, you've made some pretty angry posts in here and the toonami thread. We're all here to have fun, try to relax man.
 
Gucci Messiah said:
So you haven't even seen DBZ but vote to save it every round instead of a show you actually like? That makes no sense.

My reason for voting against DBZ is because I don't think it's a very good show, I've talked extensively in this thread about why I don't like the show. You can take off the tin foil hat and stop putting words in my mouth now; DBZ is extremely overrated and gets by on nostalgia. I've been saying this all along, my stance hasn't changed.

I really think you're too emotionally invested in this sily game, you've made some pretty angry posts in here and the toonami thread. We're all here to have fun, try to relax man.
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My favorite shows don't need saving yet.
 
789shadow said:
My favorite shows don't need saving yet.
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Cool man. Not sure why you went super saiyan over One Piece though or started saving DBZ, a show you've admittedly never watched, after Lazybones voted to kill it. You're accusing people of revenge voting but being an active participant. Not that I'm against that, it's a part of the game in my opinion, but don't complain about it if you're going to do the same thing.

No hard feelings, not trying to start a fight.
 
I just think Naruto has surpassed DBZ in every aspect. Toriyama's never shown that much actual passion for his craft. On a technical level Toriyama can be persnickety, but Kishimoto imbues actual interest in his work. Theatrical storyboarding, clashes of personality, and actual overarching plot, et cetera. Naruto takes this a step further by focusing even more on character and theme. Characters have understandable motives beyond just being evil, egotistical bastards like Vegeta, Freeza, and Cell or simply wanting to fight, like Gokuu. Although Vegeta and Gokuu are perhaps the most unique characters in Dragon Ball there is little active forward thrust in their character arcs thanks to Toriyama simply writing each chapter without thinking ahead.
 
Wasn't Toriyama essentially forced into doing DBZ? I thought I read somewhere that he wanted to stop with Dragonball (the far superior series) or end DBZ early but couldn't due to its popularity in Japan. He stopped caring because he knew the series was shit.
 
Kill: Star Wars The Clone Wars
Kill: Star Wars The Clone Wars
Save: Dragon Ball Z

Star Wars is just fuckin' boring and puts me to sleep. Glad they pushed it to the time they did, but fuuuuck.

DBZ saving as I will every round, as it is synonymous with Toonami.
 
MikeMyers said:
Toryiama wanted to end it after the first arc in DB.
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That explains why every character is paper thin. At least long running shonen that followed in its footsteps, like Naruro, were able to learn how to properly flesh out characters.

Andrex said:
I know hating on DBZ is the hipster thing to do, but it really did have some great fight scenes, cool attacks, and memorable/likable characters. The pacing in the anime got pretty dull at times, but speaking outside the realm of this thread, that's more due to Toei than anything you can blame on Toriyama. The only thing Toriyama can be accused of is being formulaic, but that blame is better laid at the feed of Jump's editors.

What I can also say is that DBZ's filler is among the best there is, and the only filler arc it ever had was very short and fairly enjoyable. The same cannot be said of Naruto, One Piece, or Bleach, all of which have less-pristine filler records than DBZ.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying Toriyama sucks or is to blame. I think we all realize he had little to do with the anime but that doesn't excuse the fact that it's a poor show. This isn't a referendum on the creator, it's critisicm on how his product was portrayed in animated form.

The pacing was god awful most of the time because the anime aired every single week for 10 years instead of in seasons. Due to this the animators had to stretch out 14 pages of fighting in the manga to 22 minutes of action in the anime a lot of the time. That's why viewers had to sit through characters powering up for multiple episodes, lengthy expositions in the middle of fights, additional scenes not present in the manga, etc. Obviously this isn't Toriyama's fault but that doesn't mean the show deserves a free pass. It's an obvious flaw.

Characters are formulaic and the plots/villains are rediculously similar, I already talked about this at length. It's the same thing over and over for 200 episodes.

- Extremely cruel alien shows up and wants to destroy a planet for no good reason
- Z warriors oppose them
- Somebody dies or is gravely injured, usually in dramatic fashion
- Z warriors realize they can't win yet
- Training phase
- Goku arrives
- Bad guys start getting beaten up
- Some type or jobbing occurs
- 'lol here's my true power' transformation trap card is pulled by the villain
- Epic battle ensues
- Goku and friends win through the power of friendship/determination/will power
- Dragon balls wish dead friends back to life
- Everything returns to normal

You think the filler is good, I think that it's mediocre. Different strokes I guess. What does it matter when it has no impact on the overall story whatsoever? It's like it never happened and is therefore a waste of time.

DBZ popularized the crappy long running shonen trend and contains a lot of the elements that people chastise One Piece, Bleach, and Naruto for. It was cool when we were 12 but if people had to sit through one episode of DBZ a week these days they'd really see how flawed it is.

I'm not even a DBZ hater, I just think it's incredibly overrated.

EDIT: Just realized my post count is 9001, haha!
 
Gucci Messiah said:
That explains why every character is paper thin. At least long running shonen that followed in its footsteps, like Naruro, were able to learn how to properly flesh out characters.
Click to expand...

Naruto just has more depth to its characters. Sasuke is bitter because his brother murdered his entire clan. Vegeta is bitter because he's a Prince who was spoiled by Frieza, until Vegeta choose to betray him.

Sasuke's storyline makes much more sense.
 
Man God said:
DBZ has two filler arcs. The first is better than the second. They also stretched what, three chapters into 12 or so episodes at one point? Ridiculous.

It still should win any Toonami popularity vote though without question.
Click to expand...

What was the other one? Pikkon?
 
Kill:Star Wars: The Clone Wars-It's boring
Kill:Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes-I can't stand superhero shows other than batman
Save:DBZ-Because it was essential to Toonami's rise to fame, and that alone makes it deserving of a save.
And because there are some actual awful shows on this list, and DBZ isn't that bad. ffs guys.
 
Naruto's villains such as Orochimaru are better than DBZ villain like Frieza because the former actually has a backstory. With Freeza, we don't know anything about where he originally came from or why he's a gazillion times more powerful than anyone else. We do get the whole backstory with him and the Saiyans, but even there he's already the same person as he is the present.
 
One thing that annoys me about the shift from DB to DBZ is going from skilled martial artists to shitty overpowered half-Saiyans. Yamcha had the Wolf Fang Fist and the Spirit Ball, the latter almost beat Kami for him. Tenshinhan had the Tri-Beam and the Solar Flare, and those moves were still relevant in Z. What did Gohan have? He had the Masenko (taught by Piccolo) and the Kamehameha (taught by Goku), both which are just big Ki blasts with no unique attributes. Future Trunks is in the same boat as Gohan, he just travels to a timeline when the villains are really weak and offs them from there.
 
Guys, if you keep on voting off the popular shows, then all we'll be left with for the next month are shows that no one cares about.

How about we focus on those kinds of shows first, hm?
 
Poltergust said:
Guys, if you keep on voting off the popular shows, then all we'll be left with for the next month are shows that no one cares about.

How about we focus on those kinds of shows first, hm?
Click to expand...

Too late now. We must kill all the popular shows so that the list is actually in reverse! lol

In that case Naruto can keep living. Being ranked one survivor of the worst anime would make me happy. We have truly been killing aka saving the popular shows from being the worst.
 
The amount of DBZ and Batman Animated Series votes, over the last couple rounds, is absolutely laughable. Wouldn't it be nice if people can participate in these threads coherently? Overrated does not equal BAD. However there are BAD shows left on the list..
 
Kill:Naruto
Kill:Shippuden
Save:Gundam Wing

Naruto sucks, Shippuden Sucks, Wing doesn't suck

Because votes don't carry over I don't even know why I bother to vote, if you don't target/save the show people are fighting over your votes end up meaning nothing like every vote I've cast so far
 
MikeMyers said:
Naruto's villains such as Orochimaru are better than DBZ villain like Frieza because the former actually has a backstory. With Freeza, we don't know anything about where he originally came from or why he's a gazillion times more powerful than anyone else. We do get the whole backstory with him and the Saiyans, but even there he's already the same person as he is the present.
Click to expand...

Are back stories necessary? It's cool to think we can understand why a villain acts the way they act, but it's not always necessary. The villain in 'No Country For Old Men' had no back story other than he kills people. I'm not relating that very mature movie with DBZ, but stating that back story isn't always necessary.

Frieza is my favorite DBZ villain. He was the first to do the multi-form thin, although I think YuYu Hakusho had done it before. He was a bit androgenous with a bit of a diva attitude. I don't find him to be anything like orochimaru except for maybe the color scheme. I do think Frieza's looks were alright, except the silly form 3. First look was a bit geriatric, but he was just chillin so it was fine. Second form was like Capt. Ginyu 2.0 which was alright, and final form was pretty sleak. I won't argue that the writing is pretty simple for a lot of DBZ, but for a kid it doesn't always matter. I watched DBZ as a kid and it was great, except for the ridiculous waits between training and fighting.
 
Poltergust said:
Guys, if you keep on voting off the popular shows, then all we'll be left with for the next month are shows that no one cares about.

How about we focus on those kinds of shows first, hm?
Click to expand...

Just because a show is popular doesn't mean that it isn't bad. Justin Bieber is extremely popular but makes terrible music. DBZ is the same except it gets by on nostalgia instead of hormones. It's a bad show and deserves to go, that's why it'll keep getting voted against.

Skid 4 Dead said:
The amount of DBZ and Batman Animated Series votes, over the last couple rounds, is absolutely laughable. Wouldn't it be nice if people can participate in these threads coherently? Overrated does not equal BAD. However there are BAD shows left on the list..
Click to expand...

I like Batman TAS but can understand why someone else wouldn't. Heck, I didn't enjoy the show as a kid; it took me until my college years to actually appreciate it.

DBZ is complete bullcrap in my opinion. It's overrated and generally bad, especially when compared to Dragonball. Toriyama didn't even want to do the series which explains why it's so bland and predictable. There have been a number of posts in this thread discussing why it is so flawed in retrospect but I have yet to see someone saving the show offer up a well thought out counter argument. Basically the reasons for saving it have boiled down to:

- nostalgia
- 'just because' aka no real reason
- 'haters gonna hate'
- revenge voting

What's laughable are the people who complain about Bleach, One Piece or Naruto but go ahead and hold DBZ up to a higher standard when it contains a lot of the bullshit people chastise those shows for. It popularized many irritating trends you see in long running shonen today.

I'm not trying to make a fuss out of the way people are voting because taste is ultimately subjective but the people constantly complaining about DBZ or anything else being voted against need to be quiet.

vikki said:
Are back stories necessary? It's cool to think we can understand why a villain acts the way they act, but it's not always necessary. The villain in 'No Country For Old Men' had no back story other than he kills people. I'm not relating that very mature movie with DBZ, but stating that back story isn't always necessary.

Frieza is my favorite DBZ villain. He was the first to do the multi-form thin, although I think YuYu Hakusho had done it before. He was a bit androgenous with a bit of a diva attitude. I don't find him to be anything like orochimaru except for maybe the color scheme. I do think Frieza's looks were alright, except the silly form 3. First look was a bit geriatric, but he was just chillin so it was fine. Second form was like Capt. Ginyu 2.0 which was alright, and final form was pretty sleak. I won't argue that the writing is pretty simple for a lot of DBZ, but for a kid it doesn't always matter. I watched DBZ as a kid and it was great, except for the ridiculous waits between training and fighting.
Click to expand...

I can give a pass to not fully explaining a villains motivations in a 2 hour movie. However, there's no excuse for a lack of characterization in a television series spanning nearly 300 episodes, that's just poor writing. Frieza, just like most of the one demensional bad guys, is an extremely cruel alien who wants to become immortal and destroy planets. We have no idea how he got rediculously powerful or why he's such a heartless dick. All we know is that he committed genocide based off of a rumor. What a cool guy.

Story is necessary in a long running shonen, that's the reason why viewers tune in to watch every week. Saying that it doesn't matter makes no sense to me. You've admitted that DBZ was cool as a kid and I agree. However, looking back at the show objectively as an adult, it is extremely flawed, and in my opinion, just plain bad. I think DBZ gets by almost purely on nostalgia, I'd like to see people watch all 298 episodes today and try to tell me it's an amazing show. Kai fixes a lot of the pacing issues but the original toonami series was an absolute slog to get through.

Frieza was not the first villain to have multiple forms..not by a long shot. Many anime before it had pulled that trap card, unfortunately DBZ abused the hell out of it. That was just a cop out used to pad arcs and sell toys in my opinion though.
 
Kill: Zatch Bell
Kill: Zatch Bell
Save: DBZ

ZB is basically stuck in my crosshairs now. DBZ is in no way bad enough to be removed yet, y'all just hating.
 
Holy hell, I might vote to kill DBZ just so people stop talking about it.

I'm not gonna do that, but damn, some of you guys take this way too seriously.

Anyway...

Kill: Storm Hawks
Kill: DICE

Save: Zatch Bell

I doubt it's in danger, but the concept was pretty neat and I remember enjoying it. No idea if it holds up.
 
Hahaha oh god. I'm changing one of my votes based on how terrible the vocals of that theme song were.
 
MikeMyers said:
I just think Naruto has surpassed DBZ in every aspect. Toriyama's never shown that much actual passion for his craft. On a technical level Toriyama can be persnickety, but Kishimoto imbues actual interest in his work. Theatrical storyboarding, clashes of personality, and actual overarching plot, et cetera. Naruto takes this a step further by focusing even more on character and theme. Characters have understandable motives beyond just being evil, egotistical bastards like Vegeta, Freeza, and Cell or simply wanting to fight, like Gokuu. Although Vegeta and Gokuu are perhaps the most unique characters in Dragon Ball there is little active forward thrust in their character arcs thanks to Toriyama simply writing each chapter without thinking ahead.
Click to expand...

Wait, Danzo didn't turn evil because he wasn't chosen to be the Third Hokage? Obito didn't turn evil because his love interest was killed? His entire reason for supporting the Moon's Eye plan is to have Rin back in his life. Madara didn't turn evil because Hashirama was chosen to be the First Hokage over him? Orochimaru didn't end up betraying the village and leaving till after Minato was chosen over him? I kinda see a pattern going on here.

MikeMyers said:
Naruto just has more depth to its characters. Sasuke is bitter because his brother murdered his entire clan. Vegeta is bitter because he's a Prince who was spoiled by Frieza, until Vegeta choose to betray him.

Sasuke's storyline makes much more sense.
Click to expand...

Vegeta is bitter because his entire race minus him, Raditz, Nappa, Goku, and later revealed to be canon, his brother, were killed off. He only followed Frieza till he felt he was strong enough to face Frieza. Just like Sasuke, he sought vengeance for their death.

MikeMyers said:
One thing that annoys me about the shift from DB to DBZ is going from skilled martial artists to shitty overpowered half-Saiyans. Yamcha had the Wolf Fang Fist and the Spirit Ball, the latter almost beat Kami for him. Tenshinhan had the Tri-Beam and the Solar Flare, and those moves were still relevant in Z. What did Gohan have? He had the Masenko (taught by Piccolo) and the Kamehameha (taught by Goku), both which are just big Ki blasts with no unique attributes. Future Trunks is in the same boat as Gohan, he just travels to a timeline when the villains are really weak and offs them from there.
Click to expand...
Ok, as a Naruto fan, I have to stop you here and now. Naruto and Naruto Shippuden follows the same path Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z went. How many iterations of the Rasengan does Naruto has right now? How many
transformations
does he have? What about all the bullshit power ups Sasuke was given to be evenly matched to Naruto who has
sage mode and Kurama's chakra
? Hell, now the Uchiha can somehow unlock the
Rinnegan
. I fully expect Sasuke to sport a brand new set of
Rinnegan
eyes soon in the manga. Trust me, it will happen. Naruto Shippuden is DBZ 2.0 except shittier. The fights, just like DBZ, are overly drawn out over several episodes. Then we have the fillers. DBZ at least made sure the fillers had some sort of continuity to them. Naruto Shippuden on the other hand complete fucks up the continuity. Well, to be fair, Kishi already did that with the manga. Before you ask for examples, I'll give you some:

1) Tobi/
Obito
-
this is more specifically about his physical looks and abilities. In Kakashi Gaiden, we are told the events of the short story takes place a year before Kurama is released in the village. Obito was shown to be much smaller than Minato yet a year later, he was roughly the same height. Then there's the fact he was on equal footing with Minato before Minato took the Hiraishin to level 2. Yes, you can say Madara trained him well but the old man could barely move from his throne.

2) Nagato, Konan, and Yahiko -
These three were Jiraiya's first students. Not Minato and the other two. Towards the end of the Second Shinobi World War, Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade faced Amegakure's leader (I forgot his name). On their way home from their loss, they came upon the three kids. Jiraiya chose to stay with them. He spent, what, three years with them, training them before returning back to Konoha. Yet, in the manga and the anime, they are shown to be younger than Minato. The recent Obito episodes has shown that the trio are in their late teens/early twenties. Jiraiya around this time period would be 37-38 (in Shippuden, he's 54, subtract 16 from his age) while during the Second World War, he is said to be in his early twenties.

And please don't get me started on the inconsistencies between the manga and anime. For one,
the manga states Jiraiya and the others earned their Sannin rank towards the end of the Second Shinobi World War. The anime says it was the Third. There's the whole Tobi thing that was going on recently in the anime. I could go on but I have a birthday party to set up.

Dude, I enjoy Naruto as much as you but, no disrespect, you must be blind if you don't see the similarities between DBZ and Naruto.

Anyway, here's my kills/save:

Kill: Duel Masters - shitty Yu-Gi-Oh! wannabe.
Kill: Blue Dragon - I rather play the game than watch the anime.
Save: DBZ

Edit:
just remember the Third Bijuu arc. That doesn't even get a nod later on when Naruto meets the bijuus. At least they acknowledge the Six Tailed Jinchuriki when Naruto fights his reanimated corpse.

Edit #2: Hid Naruto spoilers for those who don't watch the Japanese version. I would watch the English dub but I can't stand some of the voices for several characters. Hell, I don't even know where exactly the English dub is currently at.
 
Crimsonlink said:
Too late now. We must kill all the popular shows so that the list is actually in reverse! lol

In that case Naruto can keep living. Being ranked one survivor of the worst anime would make me happy. We have truly been killing aka saving the popular shows from being the worst.
Click to expand...

In this world, SAO is now #1. Enjoy!

pg0eoDh.gif
 
Voting time
Kill: Duel Masters (It took me a few days to remember how much of a cheap rip-off this was to Yu-Gi-Oh)
Kill: D.I.C.E. (Don't remember liking this show)
Save: Zatch Bell (Might as well use this save on something that could actually use it)
 
Yeah time to vote:

Kill: Duel Masters
Kill: D.I.C.E.

These are both terrible shows.

Save: Dragonball Z

It doesn't deserve to go out this early still. People just gunning for it now.
 
Kill: Duel Masters - One of a gazillion shows that tried to capitalize on the popularity of Yugioh way back when, I'm just not a fan of it.
Kill: Duel Masters

Save: Dragonball Z
 
I would like to suggest we NOT post spoilers for any of the following shows which are currently airing on Toonami:

Bleach
Naruto Shippuden
One Piece
Soul Eater
Sword Art Online

And also for Blue Exorcist and Black Lagoon, which will be coming to Toonami soon.
 
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