Mass murderer Breivik threatened hunger strike over Rayman Revolution

Is there a reason people believe this? As lenient as the original sentence I bet he gets out on the first day possible.

How is the original sentence lenient if he got the max he could under their laws?

and I chose to believe in the system, there was a guy here quite a long time ago who killed 4 cops during a robbery and he was kept in forvaring for a long damn time, actually until he was 77 and old as fuck, not deemed a danger to anyone or anything anymore which I think is reasonable. Breivek you can make the argument for just needs to be able to do his propaganda to be dangerous though so I could see him stay in forever.
 

zhorkat

Member
Is there a reason people believe this? As lenient as the original sentence I bet he gets out on the first day possible.

The sentence was the longest sentence they could legally give and can be extended indefinitely. I don't see how it's that lenient.
 

ffdgh

Member
gallows.jpg

Nah the thousand year door is too good for him.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Is there a reason people believe this? As lenient as the original sentence I bet he gets out on the first day possible.

How the hell is it "lenient" when it's the maximum sentence in Norway? Should they have broken their own laws and made the sentence longer than they're legally allowed to? Educate yourself and then come back.
 

ShinAmano

Member
The sentence was the longest sentence they could legally give and can be extended indefinitely. I don't see how it's that lenient.
How the hell is it "lenient" when it's the maximum sentence in Norway? Should they have broken their own laws and made the sentence longer than they're legally allowed to? Educate yourself and then come back.


77 Dead that is a lenient sentence. I don't care what country you come from. That is about 200+ lives destroyed.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
77 Dead that is a lenient sentence. I don't care what country you come from. That is about 200+ lives destroyed.

And no sane person thinks he's actually getting out after 21 years. Again, they're not legally allowed to give anyone a longer sentence than that in Norway, so what do you think they should have done? Rewritten their laws for one person?
 

...

77 Dead that is a lenient sentence. I don't care what country you come from. That is about 200+ lives destroyed.

This was lenient as they didn't give him a sentence under US law. I agree. why don't these third world countries like Norway understand? So lets get angry about this system that has shown to be working well, fuck that, we want him to be given 658 years in prison.
 

Dryk

Member
Norway prison sounds pretty nice, lack of freedom aside...

Can't understand why prisoners have access to video games and tellies and stuff anyway tbh.

i can respect the rehabilitation thing in Norway prisons, but not the luxuries the prisoners have.
The idea is that someone that has spent 20 years stewing and being systematically stripped of luxuries, autonomy and humanity doesn't readjust to society very well. Judging from the results they seem to be on to something (obvious).
 

ShinAmano

Member
And no sane person thinks he's actually getting out after 21 years. Again, they're not legally allowed to give anyone a longer sentence than that in Norway, so what do you think they should have done? Rewritten their laws for one person?

I don care about the law it is lenient. And like I said before is there a reason (aka has there been someone in a similar situation) that people believe he wont get out after 21 years?

...
This was lenient as they didn't give him a sentence under US law. I agree. why don't these third world countries like Norway understand? So lets get angry about this system that has shown to be working well, fuck that, we want him to be given 658 years in prison.
Why are you angry?
 

faridmon

Member
The prison systems goal we have here in Norway is to rehabilitate, not punish.

Generally yes, in this case, No fucking way. Even the most stupidest politician we have would never see his sentence as anything but punishment for this guy.

EDIT: Re-reading the thread, HOLY SHIT Amirox, you are a stronger person than I ever will be! Damn!
 

GolazoDan

Member
Generally yes, in this case, No fucking way. Even the most stupidest politician we have would never see his sentence as anything but punishment for this guy.
If it's not rehabilitation it's more likely to be to provide protection for the rest of society by removing the irredeemable individual.
 
I don care about the law it is lenient. And like I said before is there a reason (aka has there been someone in a similar situation) that people believe he wont get out after 21 years?

There's obviously no one in the exact same position as having killed as close to as many as Breivek, but just googling quickly I can find there being lots of Norwegians in forvaring (110-120 in 2011), mostly rapists and pedophiles.

Why are you angry?

Because I thought your post was silly and we have had this same discussion way too many times in OT.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Ilúvatar;100868216 said:
Would you be in favor of "rehabilitating" Hitler or Stalin?

If they can't be rehabilitated, they'll stay behind bars for the rest of their lives, where they can't hurt anyone. But if they can... then we've saved a life.

Society ought to exist to take care of its members. When someone commits a crime, society (for one reason or another) has failed. Either their circumstances forced them into an impossible situation, or they weren't properly educated. We want to minimize crimes as much as possible.

If we make a prison system designed solely to punish and make criminals miserable, what are we telling them? We're telling them that society isn't there to look out for them. We're telling them that it's there to hurt them, hold them back, and make them suffer. We train criminals to hate society, and then when they're released, they naturally return to criminality. Why should they respect an institution that hurts them?

If we make a prison system designed to rehabilitate criminals, we tell them that even when they make mistakes, society cares about them. That if they can follow the rules, they'll be rewarded and treated like human beings. That everyone in society ought to be treated with dignity and respect.

There are going to be people who cannot be reached, but as soon as we start making exceptions about which people deserve to be people, and which people should be treated like animals, we tell everyone that they can do the same thing. That's not the society I want to live in.

Prison is an extension of our education system. It should exist to teach and reform, not just to punish. Norway understands that, and that's part of why their recidivism rate is so much lower than the USA's.
 
The idea is that someone that has spent 20 years stewing and being systematically stripped of luxuries, autonomy and humanity doesn't readjust to society very well. Judging from the results they seem to be on to something (obvious).
Really hard to accept, but that makes a lot of sense.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
I don care about the law it is lenient.

Well, unfortunately you have to care about the law. Because that's how shit works.

And like I said before is there a reason (aka has there been someone in a similar situation) that people believe he wont get out after 21 years?

It was discussed a lot during the trial. Everyone seemed to agree that there's no way he's gonna be allowed back into society that soon, if ever.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Ilúvatar;100868216 said:
Would you be in favor of "rehabilitating" Hitler or Stalin?

Yes. Ghengis Khan too, for that matter. They are horrible human beings, and "rehabilitation" is not the same as "releasing into society." With individuals who committed crimes of the magnitude of Hitler (he would have died in prison not too many years after capture anyway given his inflictions), it's unlikely any court would rule to release the individual.

So what do you focus on? Well, you don't do it just for Hitler, but you have an environment that encourages rehabilitation. Education, so that perhaps one day he could understand the truth behind what he did. A humane environment, so that we focus on maintaining prisoner sanity and safety, to result in less prisoner on prison violence, and less escape attempts. More importantly still, it results in a far safer environment for prison guards as well.

And statistics back this up, prisons with rehabilitative environments are beneficial across the board, including to the community. On just the back of meaningful education alone, this study showed that criminals were 43% less likely to commit a new crime once leaving. It also showed doing such things actually REDUCES the cost of housing inmates, not increases. Study after study shows the same thing: less repeat criminals, less violence to other inmates, a decrease in common mental disabilities (and thus less cost in treating those prisoners). Reintegration into society for those deemed safe enough are helped immeasurably by such a rehabilitative prison stance. And that in turn helps society at large, who can now live alongside people who will contribute to paying their taxes and being good people.

The alternative is simply revenge for revenge's sake. It is not logical, and it helps only to serve our baser instincts. And I understand the desire. God, do I ever. But understand that it does not help anyone to simply behave off the back of sheer emotion.
 

ShinAmano

Member
There's obviously no one in the exact same position as having killed as close to as many as Breivek, but just googling quickly I can find there being lots of Norwegians in forvaring (110-120 in 2011), mostly rapists and pedophiles.

While there is a difference in those crimes (rapists and pedophiles can burn imo)...this says nothing to me about him getting out in 21 years.
Well, unfortunately you have to care about the law. Because that's how shit works..
I am free to believe what I want.


It was discussed a lot during the trial. Everyone seemed to agree that there's no way he's gonna be allowed back into society that soon, if ever.
We will see.
 
While there is a difference in those crimes (rapists and pedophiles can burn imo)...this says nothing to me about him getting out in 21 years.

Well it tells you they don't just let them out as soon as their sentence is over. Anyone who would think Breivik would get out after his sentence are hilarious, I could at worst/best see him getting out when he's on his deathbed.

I am free to believe what I want.

Sadly you are not free to break the law, lol.
 

zhorkat

Member
I don care about the law it is lenient. And like I said before is there a reason (aka has there been someone in a similar situation) that people believe he wont get out after 21 years?

The way the law is set up the period of detention can be extended in 5 year increments if it is determined that the person is still a danger to society. I would assume people think Breivik will not be released because he will continually be assessed as being a danger to society for the rest of his life. What makes you think that he would be deemed as safe to release back into society?
 

Josh7289

Member
Yes. Ghengis Khan too, for that matter. They are horrible human beings, and "rehabilitation" is not the same as "releasing into society." With individuals who committed crimes of the magnitude of Hitler (he would have died in prison not too many years after capture anyway given his inflictions), it's unlikely any court would rule to release the individual.

So what do you focus on? Well, you don't do it just for Hitler, but you have an environment that encourages rehabilitation. Education, so that perhaps one day he could understand the truth behind what he did. A humane environment, so that we focus on maintaining prisoner sanity and safety, to result in less prisoner on prison violence, and less escape attempts. More importantly still, it results in a far safer environment for prison guards as well.

And statistics back this up, prisons with rehabilitative environments are beneficial across the board, including to the community. On just the back of meaningful education alone, this study showed that criminals were 43% less likely to commit a new crime once leaving. It also showed doing such things actually REDUCES the cost of housing inmates, not increases. Study after study shows the same thing: less repeat criminals, less violence to other inmates, a decrease in common mental disabilities (and thus less cost in treating those prisoners). Reintegration into society for those deemed safe enough are helped immeasurably by such a rehabilitative prison stance. And that in turn helps society at large, who can now live alongside people who will contribute to paying their taxes and being good people.

The alternative is simply revenge for revenge's sake. It is not logical, and it helps only to serve our baser instincts. And I understand the desire. God, do I ever. But understand that it does not help anyone to simply behave off the back of sheer emotion.

The way he's acting though, it's like a dark twist on "first world problems". Over a billion people have no idea whether they'll eat tomorrow. And he's complaining that his video games aren't fun. It's pathetic. He knew what he was getting into when he decided to end 77 human lives. He's being treated extremely well despite that. He should learn his place and be grateful for what he still has.
 

ShinAmano

Member
Well it tells you they don't just let them out as soon as their sentence is over. Anyone who would think Breivik would get out after his sentence are hilarious, I could at worst/best see him getting out when he's on his deathbed.



Sadly you are not free to break the law, lol.

First point we will see...like I said a country that supports such lenient sentences how can you be sure he wont be out on the streets after 21 years?
Yeah but he's free to believe he can break the law!
Second point...wtf does that even mean?
 
Give him Persona 4 and that will make him think long and hard about it.


Joke aside, I never really understood why they have these things in there. Although I never really looked up as to why or what they actually do have in prison. Since that stuff doesn't cross my mind ever.
 

Dryk

Member
Really hard to accept, but that makes a lot of sense.
To be fair though, from what I've seen on the subject the autonomy thing is the biggest deal. Prisoners in a lot of countries are controlled very tightly (told when to eat, when to exercise, when to shit, etc) and then they're just thrown back into society afterwards with no guidance. The stripping of luxuries just helps breed a deeper resentment of the system like sonicmj1 mentioned.
 
The real story here is the insane sentence he got in the first place.

He should've been summarily executed.

How the hell is 21 years the maximum sentence for killing 21 people there? The Norwegians have one messed up criminal justice system.
 

sonicmj1

Member
But what I am really curious about, is why I'm hearing anything this person has to say period? You're absolutely right, the press needs to be better about this. I should frankly not have to hear a single word from Brevik, he should be neither seen nor heard from. He should be bitching about having to play kiddie games and possibly forced feeding, without me having to hear a single complaint. He should have fallen off the face of the Earth media-wise while he's locked up.

It could definitely be argued that he deserves basic amenities, as a human right, but he doesn't deserve any media attention. None.

I agree with this. I don't need to hear his name ever again. He committed this crime for attention, and while he still ought to be treated with dignity, media attention is the one thing he isn't owed.
 
If he's extremely well behaved for 21 years I don't see why he wouldn't be let out, based on the goals of Norwegian prison.
Anyone can behave well if they want to, but when the psyche tests come out and he's still not fit, then he wont be let out, sure its possible he'll be mentally fit in 21 yrs time, but I highly doubt it for someone who has murdered that many people. Thats also assuming he even wants to be let out, who's to say he isn't afraid of being murdered himself when he gets out? He has it good inside.

Besides, 21 is the max punishment under Norwegian law and as everyone knows, there's no such thing as bending the law.
 

aly

Member
I told the story before, but trust me when I say I understand where you're coming from. And I do not judge anyone who cannot forgive. It was the most difficult thing imaginable for me to come around. The hardest thing I had to do in my life, even harder than quitting my drug addiction or losing one hundred pounds.

Here is a link to just one individual story of how horrible my mom's family is to her. A true warning, it's really horrible. She was raped literally hundreds of times by over a dozen relatives during her childhood. From the age of 5 to 8 she was called "little wifey" to her other family because everyone knew she was being molested and that my grandmother's boyfriend liked her more than my grandmom, but even still my grandmom denied it. For ages. If you want to have your stomach turn, read the link.

Like I said in this topic, my change of heart was so recent on all this that we're talking under two years (note that post came from 2011, where I was still unprepared to forgive them). It took forever for me to come to this place, because me and mom both realized things like this (and me being molested by a family member as well, even though I have vague memory of it) was destroying us. My mom still has trust issues to this day, and will wake up screaming at the top of her lungs if anyone taps her when she's asleep.

But together we went to therapy, and also separately, and me and her had many discussions that went so deep into the night that it was like a refreshing shower when we were done. But what we concluded both was that forgiveness was the only way - true, all-encompassing forgiveness, the kind that allows you to wish these people success and the fortitude to change their own flaws. It was completely true to her faith and religion as well, as well as my outlook about humanity as an atheist. We cried a lot over it, and we found strength in each other. And we forged that path together, and it has changed us forever. I cannot emphasize enough what it did. Despite my mom's illness slowly killing her, I haven't seen her this happy in years.

Amir0x, I just really wanted to thank you for this post. Not just because of the way it applies to this case, but the because of the way it applies to people in general. We went through something similar with my mom, and all I felt was anger towards the people who hurt her. Honestly, I wanted them dead, and it was hard to get over. Forgiveness is hard. But keeping in anger and hate does nothing. Like you said you can only wish those people success and hope they change. That even goes for people like Breivik. I hope he gets help. I hope he regrets his actions and get rehabilitated.. Death won't do anything, but put another body in the ground.I know you are an atheist, but I really wish you could give a speech or something at my church about true forgiveness ( something very hard to have) or something, because that was beautiful and most importantly I think very true.
 

Tenrius

Member
I don care about the law it is lenient. And like I said before is there a reason (aka has there been someone in a similar situation) that people believe he wont get out after 21 years?

The only way he's getting out is if he's no longer considered a threat to society. I have to stress that it's not very likely (judging by past cases and so on), but what's in it for you if he does get out? That would mean that he's no longer considered a threat to society and is therefore free to go. That's how it works.
 
Amir0x, I just really wanted to thank you for this post. Not just because of the way it applies to this case, but the because of the way it applies to people in general. We went through something similar with my mom, and all I felt was anger towards the people who hurt her. Honestly, I wanted them dead, and it was hard to get over. Forgiveness is hard. But keeping in anger and hate does nothing. Like you said you can only wish those people success and hope they change. That even goes for people like Breivik. I hope he gets help. I hope he regrets his actions and get rehabilitated.. Death won't do anything, but put another body in the ground.I know you are an atheist, but I really wish you could give a speech or something at my church about true forgiveness ( something very hard to have) or something, because that was beautiful and most importantly I think very true.
If everyone thought this way, the world would be a much better place, sadly its not in everyone to forgive.

The only way he's getting out is if he's no longer considered a threat to society. I have to stress that it's not very likely (judging by past cases and so on), but what's in it for you if he does get out? That would mean that he's no longer considered a threat to society and is therefore free to go. That's how it works.
Everyone reacts the same way, 77 murders? No way is he ever gonna change! Its the wrong way to think, but its understandable why...Someone who is capable of doing that doesn't have much humanity in them, and thats exactly what you need to change.
 

Tenrius

Member
I don't understand the weird bloodlust a lot of the people are exhibiting in this thread. Let's look at the facts: a man kills 77 people. That is a crime. He consequently gets the maximum possible punishment with good prospects to spend his entire life in prison, unless he is somehow rehabilitated (which is, again, not very likely). He's given access to some basic entertainment like books and video games, because, while those are not human rights per se, human beings tend to suffer without access to them.

Now some people in this thread have been saying that the Norwegian government should kill him, that he should not be allowed access to said basic entertainment or that he has to have some other misery brought unto him. Why is that? This is a serious question, because I just can't make a connection between any of these things and the facts above. I think it's a very cruel and, frankly, a very barbaric thing to say.
 

ShinAmano

Member
The only way he's getting out is if he's no longer considered a threat to society. I have to stress that it's not very likely (judging by past cases and so on), but what's in it for you if he does get out? That would mean that he's no longer considered a threat to society and is therefore free to go. That's how it works.

Where did I say anything about it applying to me? I just said that the sentence is lenient.

I don't understand the weird bloodlust a lot of the people are exhibiting in this thread. Let's look at the facts: a man kills 77 people. That is a crime. He consequently gets the maximum possible punishment with good prospects to spend his entire life in prison, unless he is somehow rehabilitated (which is, again, not very likely). He's given access to some basic entertainment like books and video games, because, while those are not human rights per se, human beings tend to suffer without access to them.

Now some people in this thread have been saying that the Norwegian government should kill him, that he should not be allowed access to said basic entertainment or that he has to have some other misery brought unto him. Why is that? This is a serious question, because I just can't make a connection between any of these things and the facts above. I think it's a very cruel and, frankly, a very barbaric thing to say.

77 families will never be able to enjoy the comfort of their sons/daughters/brothers/sisters and this guy complains about not having a PS3...
 
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