Pretty sure FROM would just tell you to deal with it, like the first one, you're supposed to die. And this is the second sequel so they needed something new. This is a steam sale purchase now.
#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Dark Souls 2 is supposed to be hard, and it is incredibly hard. The torch mechanic might have been removed because it was to clunky to implement properly. And this is also ignoring the fact that it is used in certain parts of game.
They playtested it and most likely got rid of it because people didn't like it that much. The torch issue is really not that important, as shit like this happens all the time with game development.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
I'm not sure of the legality of pubs putting non-representative images on their game boxes. Logically I would say 'it happens all the time, surely if it were illegal someone would have said something by now' but logic rarely applies to the legal world in the way we'd think so I don't know.
I will assume that you aren't a trained lawyer though, and that your opinion on the legality of the box "art" is as valid as mine.
While this was true for the 8 and 16 bit era, my experience is that it hasn't been a common practice for several generations. It's certainly not common to see a disparity on the level of the DS2 downgrade.
I'm talking about boxes of games.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Yes, this has happened with following notable games:
- all of the games ever.
ps. developers don't put the images on the back of the box, but that applies to whom put the images on the box too.
Stealthcobra
Member
Its funny nobody ever gave nintendo shit. None of their box art looks like the actual game. You see these images on the box and part of you gets you thinking of these fantasy images... When the truth of it is... It looks nothing like the box art ever. Same concept. The game is fun.. I like it. Not gonna bitch about shadows and lighting.
Notable: Mario 3's box has a screenshot of a level that doesn't exist.
I wouldn't, but it has made me more tempted to hold off to see what the PC version is like. And possibly hold off a bit more to see if a PS4 version is coming.
If the PC version is basically the same and we hear nothing of the PS4 version, then I'll most likely grab it on the PS3
This is important to recognize. The marketing team likely finalized their package months before release and were not asked to make any changes and most importantly WONT be asked to make any changes. Not out of malice, but because it doesn't much matter and likely isn't illegal.
But what does "doing this" mean? I'm not twitting anyone, I don't even agree with the #YOULIED tag, I think it's way too hostile, I'm not gonna cancel preorders if the PC version is also downgraded, in fact I'm going to place mine on monday, and as I said more than once, I'm more curious than mad, I wanna know what happened, I'm not demanding they make the PC version like that, I'm just wondering if they will.
How can you take my example to make a "you people" statement? I'm one of those guys who said "I agree that cancelling preorders over this is silly, but let's respect them, they have the right to". What does my expectations have to do with people making this thread?
Some people are more worried about the lost atmosphere and gameplay mechanics because of the downgrade, some people are more pissed about the fact that if the game didn't leak, we wouldn't even know about this after every day one purchase was made, some people don't care at all and think that if the game is good, who cares.
There is no "the Dark Souls downgrade thread people", we all think differently here.
So what if the torch mechanic was really bad and everyone who's actually playing the game complained about it. Would you rather have that in the game then it being "useless" (which by the way, it isn't useless at all)
Must have play tested that in February, as all the demos/trailers showcased the mechanic and there are still copious amounts of, now useless, sconces in the game.
From doesn't generally conform to the lowest common denominator, but it is a possibility.
Third party I agree. Especially EA ports. First party, you're going to have to post some examples.
...the front of the box isn't a screenshot and isn't represented as such. The back of the box has the screenshots.
It's still amazing to see everyone bending over backwards to make excuses for Namco while Ubisoft is being raked over the coals for Watch Dogs, a game which hasn't even been released.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Remember when MGS2 trailer had that that water level that might have even been on the back of the box and promised that you played as Solid Snake and you played AS THE GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING RAIDEN WHAT THE FUCK #YOULIED #FUCKCAPKONAMCO
I don't know how many times I have to say this. The sconces are not useless. I played the game, you haven't, stop doing this bullshit.
That's true, I remember this well.
DrROBschiz
Member
They think this is colonial marines again. Trying to push back I guess?
I'm done with this thread.
I know there is enough people that are not genuine in this concern for the console versions.
They are just using it as a way to beg for an upgrade on PC. Or get confirmation that what was shown in the bullshots will in fact be in the PC release.
To all of you with this ulterior motive, shame on you.
I know there is enough people that are not genuine in this concern for the console versions.
They are just using it as a way to beg for an upgrade on PC. Or get confirmation that what was shown in the bullshots will in fact be in the PC release.
To all of you with this ulterior motive, shame on you.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
How do I even use a torch in the game? I've found them but haven't figured out how to equip them.
Personally, PC version footage.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Push back against what?
Press triangle at a bonfire to toggle between usage scenarios and then press X to light it up.
Metal Gear Solid 2's entire hype machine was built around a bait and switch.
Did that happen in the beta? And I wouldn't care if no one else liked it, as long as I got to decide if I liked it. I'm one of the few people that use the touchpad for W101, and I'd have been all over twitter if they pulled it from the game after showing it off at every event.
PetriP-TNT
Member
avatar quote
But the same thing applies for demos and others; it's not representative of the final product because it's not the final product and things change as development goes on. In case of DS2 that change happened way fast before the release which meant it resulted in crap looking areas, out-of-date marketing material (and given that the material is done by other people way before the release and they simply cannot release a game without they will use the material not drawn from the final game, without any repercussions), higher expectations etc.
Raven77
Member
Ha, yeah I'm no lawyer. But I do know that someone could, for sure, make a compelling case against FROM and NAMCO to easily show how they purposely deceived the public.
And I was glad to read that. I've seen a little bit of a part that
reminded me of Blighttown where if you don't have your torch up, you'd probably die from falling all the time. So you either memorize the level design or put your torch up.
I hope the higher res textures are at least as good as the first game, they look so damn gorgeous.
sconces are not that useless, especially in certain areas of the game, and even then, these things happen during the developement period.
also, every single developer will playtest their games, and if they find something that is unversally panned, they will remove it. This is a strong possibility, that people might've just not liked it. We'll never really know the true answer, but it might not have been catering to the "lowest common denominator" it might be that they are trying to make a game that isn't poorly made.
FairXchange
Member
It seems as though you are personally offended based on your hostile response, which is funny because my first point was 1) You seem to be easily offended.
My second point was 2) The torch mechanic seemed like a great way to break the balance of the game, and mar/frustrate the exploration of game environments.
Followed by 3) The game advertised was Dark Souls, and ultimately what was shipped was Dark Souls. The variance is too slim to warrant a complaint unless you are the first argument I made, which is easily offended.
Lastly 4) Play the damn game, decide how much the changes warrant your rage afterwards. What we got was excellent despite limitations to time, money and hardware, and being a realist makes accepting these compromises much easier.
So yeah, I said a few things and perhaps your emotions and reading comprehension need some work.
Nothing ulterior about it. If they release a PC version with the atmosphere intact, I'll be much happier. I want that outcome.
Misleading about the console versions sucks, but I want the best of a bad situation.
To clarify: if the PC version looks like the consoles, I'll be disappointed. I'll probably still love the game, but I'll miss the experience that could have been.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_JFDPCtXFY
Literally the first thing he speak of is the upgrade visually, I'm so so sad.
Literally the first thing he speak of is the upgrade visually, I'm so so sad.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
That isn't the case for everyone, it's an awful shame you've decided to jump to conclusions based on one or two admissions when you have far more people than that speaking in this very thread.
One could argue that all marketing is intended as bait-n-switch but in MGS2's case I agree with what you're saying. It's a very different situation and I see no reason why it was brought up.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Thanks! Was confusing me that they didn't show up in the equipment menu.
I would be very happy if Namco would simply post a current PC screenshot from one of the contested areas.
The misleading marketing is pretty shit as well but getting a publisher to admit to that kind of thing is practically impossible.
jacksepticeye
Member
PC version to look like the old build so it's not a total loss and we don't lose all of those gorgeous effects we were promised
PetriP-TNT
Member
Why stop there. Big Macs look nothing like the Big Macs on the posters #bigmacdowngrade #youlied and MickeyD's have like billion times more money than Scamco.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
So nice, you quoted me twice ;3
I deal with english on a daily basis as part of my job, thanks for the horrible attempt at a personal insult though.
That comparison works if you want to absolutely misrepresent things, sure.
I mean, heck, there's probably an argument to be made for the downgrades actually being upgrades. You can't say the retail version is objectively less visually appealing, after all.
But, if we're being fairly honest about it, the MGS2 and Dark Souls II situations aren't comparable.
The beta is not indicative of the final gameplay, also, mechanics are phased out heavily during production time. There are thousands of game mechanics that were removed from games, all because they weren't that good.
The torches are still helpful though, so if you have fears about useless torches, then maybe your fears are based on ignorant conclusions.
Yep! Here's my screenshot of that area showing how big a difference it makes:
To those saying torches have been made pointless and downgraded, here's my personal screenshot. This area is near impossible to navigate without torches because you can't see more than a few feet ahead:
Really goes to show the "torches are useless!" complaints are simply untrue.
^^ looks pretty navigable even without the torch. I was expecting something more like the Tomb of Giants in Dark Souls which is basically pitch black without the skull lantern or the light spell. In any case, I hated that section of the game and am glad they didn't go with any kind of torch mechanics.
this seems unlikely. the console versions have a ~6 week head start on the PC, and it would be foolish for FROM / Namco to poison their relationships with Sony and Microsoft by showcasing what will almost certainly be a superior PC version. A ton of people already bought the console version because they couldn't wait. Why rub it in their faces that they bought the inferior version (even though this is obvious)?
this seems unlikely. the console versions have a ~6 week head start on the PC, and it would be foolish for FROM / Namco to poison their relationships with Sony and Microsoft by showcasing what will almost certainly be a superior PC version. A ton of people already bought the console version because they couldn't wait. Why rub it in their faces that they bought the inferior version (even though this is obvious)?