Games that acknowledge the mistakes of their predecessors

The survivors in ARR go on to acknowledge this event as a sort of karmic punishment, mentioning through dialog how the world of Eorzea was already tainted and filled with conflict, and how the calamity that ended that game allowed them to band together and rebuild their world for the better.

I don't think is really true, from my experience as a bit of a lore buff when it comes to Eorzea. There were probably some subtle overheard conversation jokes (which tend to be the wackiest in the game), not that I remember them, but what you're saying here sounds weird.

EDIT: The main scenario spends most of its time beating into you how much the calamity fucked people up, especially outside the cities.

EDIT: The alliance of the city states occurs before actual the calamity. I think the game goes as far as name the "Warrior of Light" as the one response for that.

EDIT: A lot of people don't understand what this thread is about.
 
It isn't out yet but Dragon Age: Inquisition

They're really going out of their way to counter the criticisms of DA2 recycled areas
 
You don't know Mass Effect very well, do you? Mass Effect makes fun of themselves all the time.

Those are canon jokes. I'm not entirely sure how this really equates to saying, "boy, we really screwed up that one time, huh? Yeah, that sucked... pretty badly..."

Here's me being a cynical jerk: You won't see BioWare doing that in regards to the ending fiasco. The closest you'll get in a sequel is probably some kind of political cartoon-esque thing where the person who didn't like what they got -- which will be pointed out over and over again as some inconsequential trinket that only morons would fight over, like it'll be an order of hairpins or a futuristic bottle cap or something -- is obviously in the wrong, and foaming at the mouth with their unwashed stupidity. Meanwhile, the person getting all the heat is a totally reasonable, logical person who just doesn't understand what the fuss is all about, and threatens to call [INSERT-CITDAEL-REPLACEMENT-HERE] security to make them stop. If I were Bioware, that's what I'd do. :)
 
SF4 made fun of so many things from the whole series, and so did SFxT. Those were more of jokes than "mistakes" though.

I definitely agree. While I don't mind the SF IV series, I sure wished that the teams that did the entire SF II series, the SF Alpha/Zero series, or the SF III series would've done it instead. Sadly, they're long gone (as well as Akira Yasuda/Akiman).
 
Dark Souls 2 solved a lot of the smaller issues from the first one, then they made a lot of other weird mistakes and stumbles that keep it from feeling like too much of an advancement.

Why do I have to go back to Majula to level up? I have to load the area since I'm never just there with souls and she's in one of three or so places randomly then talks for a little while before eventually letting you level up. It just doesn't make sense since you can immediately teleport there, so it's pretty much just throwing an extra minute of bullshit in the way of you leveling up or checking how many souls you need.
 
Borderlands 2. It had more unique guns, a deep skill tree that made each specialization seem different than the other two, and the various locations were more diverse instead of being brown and grey.
 
Metal Gear Rising went back to having a lot of complex jargonistic explanations for scientific stuff, especially concerning cyborgs. "Nanos" became a small piece in a larger technology once more. Probably the biggest joke at the expense of the previous major game, was of course at the very end
Senator Armstrong's "Nanomachines, son!" as his explanation as to how became a type of cyborg who uses nanomachines to essentially act as a near invulnerable T-1000. Ironically this is probably one of the more sensible ways to use nanomachines as a plot device as it actually presented something other technology couldn't do in a very visual manner as well as fitting well in the very cyberpunk approach to the setting.
 
I don't know if it's a mistake per se, but in one of the RE5 DLC campaigns, when you're Chris and Jill in the Spencer mansion, Chris remarks on Wesker's overabundant use of crank levers.

"What is it with this guy and cranks?"
Jill replies "He's a man of refined taste."
"He's obsessed..."
 
350933-banjo-kazooie-nuts-bolts-xbox-360-screenshot-look-at-all-these.jpg

The entire fucking game was like this, as a not-so-subtle hint that MS was going to kill off all of Rare's IPs and fans should basically look forward to crap like Sports Rivals from then on out. Very annoying.
 
I don't know if it's a mistake per se, but in one of the RE5 DLC campaigns, when you're Chris and Jill in the Spencer mansion, Chris remarks on Wesker's overabundant use of crank levers.

"What is it with this guy and cranks?"
Jill replies "He's a man of refined taste."
"He's obsessed..."

Er, well, seeing how it's Spencer's mansion (both times), they are not talking about Wesker. Wouldn't really call that a case of them criticizing themselves, more of a referential joke. (Also RE6 has a crack-filled chapter in Leon's campaign.)
 
Phantasy Star IV. Although I do prefer PSII and PSIII to PSIV, they acknowledged that a streamlined game with solid presentation, predictable plot and focused on characters was more appealing to the fans.

PSII focus on insane dungeons and PSIII tradeoff between a polished presentation and an ambitious game mechanic turned off many players, and their barebones but ambitious plots were not exactly popular among the target audience (maybe ahead of their time).
 
That whole game is a mistake.

Best game in the series.

Gaf is great.

Especially Brandon F Jordan can go choke on a chubby one N&B is best BK!

Joker's fatality in Mortal Kombat vs. DC receiving a gore upgrade into Shang Tsung's first fatality in MK9 was Netherrealm's way of apologizing for unleashing MKvsDC --- and thus completely horrible "fatalities" like Kano's stomp --- upon us.

Wow that Kano stomp is pretty fuckin weak! Totally lame!

The entire fucking game was like this, as a not-so-subtle hint that MS was going to kill off all of Rare's IPs and fans should basically look forward to crap like Sports Rivals from then on out. Very annoying.

You're the worst and that game was the best you're craaaazy.
 
A lot of people don't understand what this thread is about.

No kidding. Read the OP, people.

Also, in vanilla FFXIV, Yoshi-P put himself in as an NPC (The Wandering Minstrel) who gets thrown into jail for preaching about how the comet that was about to end the world would end up being a good thing (leading into ARR).

He appears again in ARR talking about how he had suffered many trials and sleepless nights when he first came to Eorzea.
 
Deadrising 2 pretty much just took the first game, and removed all of the bullshit that made it a pain in the ass to play. It worked really well.
 
A bunch of people are missing this topic's point. It's about games that acknowledge, make fun of, and lampoon their predecessor's flaws, not games that just realize the flaws of an earlier game and fix them in the sequel.

Granted I can't actually think of any that fit the criteria myself, aside from Nuts and Bolts which has already been mentioned.
 
Someone came up with the best idea for lampooning Other M: make it some crappy movie that exists in the Metroid world that Samus is watching off a computer screen or something before turning it off, shaking her head in displeasure, and proceeding to her next awesome space adventure.

I'd buy that for a dollar. Anything, really. I'd love nothing more than a ballsy concept that clearly says "we're wiping that one off the slate, carry on."
 
A bunch of people are missing this topic's point. It's about games that acknowledge, make fun of, and lampoon their predecessor's flaws, not games that just realize the flaws of an earlier game and fix them in the sequel.

Can you quote some of those that missed the point? Absolutely not being snarky, of course. I mentioned Assassin's Creed II earlier and it did lampoon the first game by showing Ezio jumping into water (and not dying) on one of its trailers. LOL
 
Can you quote some of those that missed the point? Absolutely not being snarky, of course. I mentioned Assassin's Creed II earlier and it did lampoon the first game by showing Ezio jumping into water (and not dying) on one of its trailers. LOL

Okay,

Deadrising 2 pretty much just took the first game, and removed all of the bullshit that made it a pain in the ass to play. It worked really well.

Phantasy Star IV. Although I do prefer PSII and PSIII to PSIV, they acknowledged that a streamlined game with solid presentation, predictable plot and focused on characters was more appealing to the fans.

PSII focus on insane dungeons and PSIII tradeoff between a polished presentation and an ambitious game mechanic turned off many players, and their barebones but ambitious plots were not exactly popular among the target audience (maybe ahead of their time).

Borderlands 2. It had more unique guns, a deep skill tree that made each specialization seem different than the other two, and the various locations were more diverse instead of being brown and grey.

Dark Souls 2 solved a lot of the smaller issues from the first one, then they made a lot of other weird mistakes and stumbles that keep it from feeling like too much of an advancement.

Why do I have to go back to Majula to level up? I have to load the area since I'm never just there with souls and she's in one of three or so places randomly then talks for a little while before eventually letting you level up. It just doesn't make sense since you can immediately teleport there, so it's pretty much just throwing an extra minute of bullshit in the way of you leveling up or checking how many souls you need.

It isn't out yet but Dragon Age: Inquisition

They're really going out of their way to counter the criticisms of DA2 recycled areas

Obviously not everyone in this topic is doing it but yeah. These are just people from the second page There is also this guy:
Syphon filter 2
Twisted Metal 2&3&4
Fifa 1998
Motorstorm PR
Tekken 3
Tobal 2

Who I'm not sure about as I haven't played any of those games (besides Tekken 3 at an arcade a few times), but I'm guessing didn't get it since I can't really see FIFA doing this, though maybe they did idk.
 
How did I miss the point? Dark Souls 2 acknowledged a lot of the issues in the first one, they just also happened to make more mistakes causing those realizations to mean nothing. Hardly off topic.
 
In Zelda: Oracle of Ages you meet a kangaroo named Roy who helps you climb a hill so you can meet Tingle. Tingle does his schtick and Roy comments that he can't stand Tingle, echoing many fans' complaints about Tingle in Majora's Mask.

Not me, though. The whole Tingle character is a clever in-joke about adults who still play Zelda.
 
How did I miss the point? Dark Souls 2 acknowledged a lot of the issues in the first one, they just also happened to make more mistakes causing those realizations to mean nothing. Hardly off topic.

Because you specifically said "solving" issues. Again this topic is about games that directly make fun of and lampoon their predecessors' flaws, not games that simply solve them. Unless I'm still misinterpreting your post.

Sorry if I'm being a kind of a condescending hardass here, I'm not trying to do that. I almost made the mistake myself, lol. The dude just asked me to quote posts that do this, so I did, and it caused me to start reiterating the same point over and over again which I don't want to do. It just sort of bothers me when people don't follow the OP.
 
HOLY FUCK PEOPLE, HOW HARD IS IT TO READ? This thread isn't about sequels that improved their predecessors, its about sequels where characters or events directly reference flaws from previous games.
 
I just remember right before Borderlands 2 pc they released the 2 pics below admitting all the mistakes they made with Borderlands 1 pc. Weird it looks like 1 big pic :)

10eac882_BL2_Claptrap_LoveLetter_1.jpeg

Borderlands-2-s-PC-Features-Revealed-Through-a-Love-Letter-3.jpg
 
Borderlands acknowledged how annoying all the Claptraps were in the original game by having a whole expansion dedicated to killing them, then in Borderlands 2, the one surviving Claptrap is routinely hated and abused by every NPC in the entire game.
 
Sonic Generations, Sonic Team knew full well not to put in some Werehog mess again. The gimmick in Sonic Generations was Classic Sonic for fucks sake, such an overwhelming improvement.

It made the game shorter overall, but all the better for it.

"Hey Sonic, enjoy your future, it's gonna be great!"
 
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep. Vanilla KHII was on the easy side even on the hardest difficulty level unless you put self-imposed limitations on using certain abilities. Birth By Sleep offers a challenging Critical Mode difficulty level + makes it possible to have a lvl 1 challenge run as well.

Kingdom Hearts II was also criticized about the more straightforward level design, so BBS returned some of the platforming/more explorationary gameplay into the mix (though, it was still no KH1, which some might think is a good thing...).

Borderlands acknowledged how annoying all the Claptraps were in the original game by having a whole expansion dedicated to killing them, then in Borderlands 2, the one surviving Claptrap is routinely hated and abused by every NPC in the entire game.
Annoying? Claptraps are awesome. Why are some people so easily annoyed by anything & everything, even if there's not that much to be annoyed about? >_>;
 
Mass Effect 2. No Mako, no elevators, no crappy inventory screen with 8 different levels of each weapon mod.

But instead we got planet scanning.
 
Annoying? Claptraps are awesome. Why are some people so easily annoyed by anything & everything, even if there's not that much to be annoyed about? >_>;

"Attention traveler! There are new jobs waiting for you at the Fyrestone bounty board!"
 
One of the most famous examples of this is Metal Gear Solid 3. Following the enormous backlash against MGS2 for replacing Solid Snake as the main protagonist, Konami spends a good chunk of Snake Eater cramming in as many jokes, nods, and just plain "we get it, we messed up" moments against Raiden. Hardly a moment is wasted in ridiculing the character right from the start (from Snake wearing a fake Raiden mask in the opening cutscene and commenting how "This doesn't feel right") to having other characters display their hatred at every known opportunity (Zero stating how he was "starting to get annoyed" when Snake wears the mask later on). Then all sense of subtlety is thrown right out the window once the Raidonovich Raikov character appears....

In my opinion, MGS3 is one of those examples of coping to a mistake and laying it on so thick that it diminishes whatever attempts at self-referential acknowledgement the developers were going for. Sure, the opening fake-out was terrific, but everything afterwards just shits on both Raiden and MGS2 (which, controversy aside, still ended up one of the most popular entries in the series).

You keep calling Raiden's role in MGS2 a "mistake" and something they "messed up," but it wasn't, and this erroneous labeling completely misses the point of why Kojima made Raiden the main playable character of the game. Poking fun at the reaction to Raiden, or even the character himself, does not equate to admitting a mistake.
 
Borderlands acknowledged how annoying all the Claptraps were in the original game by having a whole expansion dedicated to killing them, then in Borderlands 2, the one surviving Claptrap is routinely hated and abused by every NPC in the entire game.
Then Telltale had a field day having GLaDOS hate on Claptrap in Poker Night 2.
 
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For those who don't know:

Ultima 4 (Yes, I know the screenshot is of 5, bear with me) is structured in an interesting way; rather than being about defeating a Grand Evil that threatens the world, instead your objective is to embody eight virtues and then go into the Grand Stygian Abyss (= Big Final Dungeon) and find and retrieve the Codex of Ultimate Wisdom from within it. As you proceed through the final dungeon, you are tested on the precepts and concepts that make up the system of virtues, culminating in a final series of questions and a big final question where you have to piece together all the little bits of information picked up throughout the game.

Smith is a talking horse. In Ultima 4, he was meant to give you a key clue to finding out that Big Final Answer.

Unfortunately, due to an oversight, the programmers failed to program in that conversation tree. Smith was a fun character to encounter, but little more than that.


Wind forward to Ultima 5, and Smith reappears - and this time around, his conversation revolves around him being apologetic for having forgotten to tell the Avatar something important, resulting in the screenshot above (That's the answer to the Big Grand Question, albeit written in the runic script used elsewhere in the game).

Smith was kept on as a running gag - in each game he'd give you a hint for the *previous* game. In his final appearance - Ultima 7 part 2 - he'd appear in the Dream Realm, and give you a hint for the final puzzle in Ultima 7. You'd tell him that's no longer of use, and he'd apologise, and just as he's about to give you a hint for the current game... he'd wake up, and vanish from the dream realm.

In a gloriously circular fashion, Ultima 9 doesn't have Smith in it (all horses have been killed), but does have a message from him, hinting at the secret behind the isle of Pagan from Ultima 8...

...which once again, cannot be correctly triggered.
 
Can you quote some of those that missed the point? Absolutely not being snarky, of course. I mentioned Assassin's Creed II earlier and it did lampoon the first game by showing Ezio jumping into water (and not dying) on one of its trailers. LOL

There's a nice nod to that in the manual stating about how they've upgraded the Animus technology.
 
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep. Vanilla KHII was on the easy side even on the hardest difficulty level unless you put self-imposed limitations on using certain abilities. Birth By Sleep offers a challenging Critical Mode difficulty level + makes it possible to have a lvl 1 challenge run as well.

Kingdom Hearts II was also criticized about the more straightforward level design, so BBS returned some of the platforming/more explorationary gameplay into the mix (though, it was still no KH1, which some might think is a good thing...).

I have no idea why they dont turn KH into a platform exploration game, with arenas for combat.....would be perfect for the series, just have to add a decent jumping mechanic, which seem nigh impossible for thedev....

Honestly if they dont have decent jumping puzzles/exploration in the inevitable Toy Story world I will be incredibly disappointed.
 
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