ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Any signs of there being DLC for PDF2nd? Would be a bummer to import and not get later songs that I'm interested in...
Hatsune Miku Project Diva series general discussion thread
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StarCreator
Member
I think DLC is a given. There are already game modes as DLC because of the amount of content on the card.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Confused. What do you mean, the lack of space left over to fit more modes on the Vita card, the paltry features listed on the back of the game box, or what?
I suppose I should nab the PS3 version, at least accessing JPSN on the PS3 doesn't require wiping my U.S. account off it for the meantime.
What?! That's the first I hear of this. What modes are we talking about? And why didn't you mention that in your reply to me about my worries about not having enough space on the game card? That was the exact sort of thing I was worried about...
StarCreator
Member
Looks like it's just edit mode; on Vita the ability to make and play edits will require an optional 900mb download.
On the upside, if I'm interpreting this correctly, the new edit mode takes a big step toward solving the issue of sharing edits for songs not in the game; it sounds like there is a method to directly link to music on piapro somehow...
Considering I never bothered with Edit mode in the original game, I guess I'm ok with this. And I'm getting the PS3 version too anyway.
Gormless Noodle
Member
You can only put it to the front or back touch panels or both. It's a bit meh at first but the trick to it is that you only need to swipe once and you can keep your finger on the screen to "scratch" back and forth to easily time them (you can even just spam it to get Good on all of those notes but that's not a smart thing to get used to though).
Edit: See below for a much better explanation
StarCreator
Member
I made these GIFs as comparison elsewhere, but basically, what works for me is to treat the scratch mechanic the same way as turntable scratches in beatmania IIDX - where you spin in one direction to trigger a scratch, then spin in the opposite direction to trigger the next. So:
is basically the same motion as:
is basically the same motion as:
StarCreator
Member
I vastly prefer the touch-based scratching to the not-thought-out-at-all analog stick implementation on PS3.
The analog stick method on the PS3 is a dumb workaround for the PS3 controller not having a touch surface. The scratch mechanic on the Vita is the Real Way to play the game. The game was originally made for the Vita first.
Don't simply dismiss the Vita version because you hear the words "touch screen". Doing scratch motions on the screen is a lot more fun and feels way more natural than having to awkwardly jerk the analog sticks in an non-intuitive way.
I see. I'll try to watch some videos before deciding then. I believe you that it was made for that, but I'm not a fan of touch stuff on Vita. Hated to clean shit on Golden Abyss.
Just because the Golden Abyss touch screen gimmicks were stupid and pointless doesn't mean that it's impossible to do appropriate stuff with it.
In any case there's a demo of both versions of the first game on PSN right now, you can try them both and see for yourself how they feel like.
Its a feature. I love it when shit goes bananas in Worlds End Dancehall.
I know I prefer f over F. The input/audio lag with TV/PS3 and the shitty trial/error calibration in F keeps me from playing it for anything other than looking at pretty graphics.
DDR was often much worse, especially in those songs where the background is just a crappy looping video of an abstract mess of colors.
At this point it's pretty much an established "feature" of Japanese rhythm games to have to cope up with the distracting nonsense in the background while you're trying to read the notes.
The game was designed for the Vita in mind, it's the appropriate platform to play the game on.
The PS3 version was just a bonus they threw in later so they can compensate for the Vita not having as large of a install base as the PSP had.
I made these GIFs as comparison elsewhere, but basically, what works for me is to treat the scratch mechanic the same way as turntable scratches in beatmania IIDX - where you spin in one direction to trigger a scratch, then spin in the opposite direction to trigger the next. So:
is basically the same motion as:
I see, I gave it a go and it seems like I can get used to it. Main challenge now is convincing my friend to get a copy, he really wants to since he enjoys what we played of the PS3 version, but he seems to have a phobia of touching his Vita screen.
StarCreator
Member
miyuki shot me two tidbits real quick:
- Vita version of F 2nd allows use of analogs in addition to the touchscreen for scratch notes.
- The last two songs in F 2nd will be announced next week.
Great news.
But will it get localised?
They had to do this if they wanted to make the game compatible with Vita TV, so it's not surprising to see that feature in.
Also, can't wait to see what the last songs are.
Still hoping to see Strobo Nights ;_;
StarCreator
Member
If you want that to happen, make sure everyone you know picks up DIVA f/F first so Sega knows there's a market for it!
Very happy at this news. Not sure if I'll import or not, would like to support the series in the West.
Never had that problem in Diva F. Only had it once in Diva Extend, in the middle of Uraomote Lovers when there's a green triangle in the bottom right of the screen over a similar coloured background. Nearly always miss that note.
StarCreator
Member
The Dreamy Theater games implemented a shadow around the notes to make them stand out against the background. This shadow is absent in f/F, and to me it definitely made a huge difference in visibility; I definitely outright miss notes in f/F a lot more often than any other entry in the series. I was never happy about F not being 60fps either.
phoenix296
Member
Importing f 2nd. First game I'm importing. Time to improve my Japanese.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Probably not important, but PlayStation Japan's Youtube channel has a video of Miku dancing with her Vita, while Miku is dancing in her Vita.
STILL UNDECIDED ON WHETHER I SHOULD GET THE VITA VERSION OR PS3 VERSION, WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR ME
STILL UNDECIDED ON WHETHER I SHOULD GET THE VITA VERSION OR PS3 VERSION, WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR ME
I find it impossible to play accurately on the vita because of the small buttons and not being able to grip the vita very well and now that the game requires you to be accurate with star notes (yes, you can get "bad" on star notes), it's going to be way more frustrating on the vita. My opinion is to get it for the ps3, but then again it's all up to you in the end.
Dear god, my soul...help me...
In Dreamy Theater and f/F I always preferred the portable versions because I thought that the pressure sensitive mushy buttons on the DS3 did rhythm games like PD no favors. I much prefer the clicky feedback and less travel distance on the Vita and to lesser extent, PSP. I also never liked the lag calibration in previous PS3 games but it looks like F2nd might have a more automated method based on a recent Diva Station update:
Judging from my time with the Vita 2nd demo I did not notice the star notes being any harder. Ditto for the new double star notes, they are still pretty generous with the timing and everything.
In any case, if you have a hard time doing star notes you're obviously not doing them right, for me they've always been the easy part of the game that allows me to catch my breath and regain life on difficult songs. Look at StarCreator's gif if you're still unsure about how to do them.
StarCreator
Member
I wouldn't consider last year's demo to be indicative of the final product considering it is now nearly half a year old.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Eeeehrmaguurd, I actually finished a song on Extreme successfully (Tengaku). Rythm games have always been my one and only demon in gaming, but today I hath vanquished it!
That is all, carry on.
That is all, carry on.
Tengaku on Extreme is so fun, I don't think I ever reached Excellent on that song despite having tried dozens of times.
Just bought f on my Vita, since I really loved playing 2nd a few years ago. Game's a ton of fun, but there are two really major flaws -
1.) Touch screen input is really dumb. I'd rather use a button. Is there some way to disable the stupid stars?
2.) Is there even anyone who likes playing these songs on Normal? :v Hard is okay, but the only mode that I have real fun with is extreme, and getting to it is such a chore. Normal mode especially is so boring.
1.) Touch screen input is really dumb. I'd rather use a button. Is there some way to disable the stupid stars?
2.) Is there even anyone who likes playing these songs on Normal? :v Hard is okay, but the only mode that I have real fun with is extreme, and getting to it is such a chore. Normal mode especially is so boring.
StarCreator
Member
You should probably look up about 30 posts above yours, where the touchscreen topic was already beaten to death. (Short answer: no, you can't disable touch input in f without taking a score penalty.)
Lightning4Ever
Banned
I had the same problem with touch since I had been playing it on PS3 prior.
It sucks, but you get used to it.
StarCreator
Member
Sequel has three types of scratch notes instead of one (the new types are link scratch where one star draws patterns on the screen and you have to scratch at each step, and double scratch which is exactly what the name implies), but also allows use of analog sticks instead of the touch screen. It's been said but not conclusively confirmed that scratches are graded tougher in the new game, which is good because Sega shouldn't be accommodating the anti-touchscreen whiners anyway.
If the analog stick implementation is anything like F (PS3)'s, the touch screen is by far the better option of the two.
Also, relinking the following:
I made these GIFs as comparison elsewhere, but basically, what works for me is to treat the scratch mechanic the same way as turntable scratches in beatmania IIDX - where you spin in one direction to trigger a scratch, then spin in the opposite direction to trigger the next. So:
is basically the same motion as:
Yeah, I scrolled up and saw it. Doesn't really help much, I can get the inputs in just fine using both of my thumbs but it's a completely useless gimmick and adds nothing to the game.
Drawing with the touchscreen sounds completely stupid. What does that add? It's a precise, fast-paced rhythm game. Forcing in an input that requires more finger movement and is less precise by default is a horrible idea.
Don't really care if you call me a "whiner" or not, forcing touch mechanics is dumb. They should keep that shit optional or not have it in at all.
StarCreator
Member
I personally think it's fun and a fantastic use of the hardware, and as I attempt to demonstrate with the beatmania example, it's not exactly something that hasn't been done before. beatmania is considered by many to be the pinnacle of skill-based music gaming, even though the turntable is almost identical to what DIVA f asks you to do with the touchscreen.
And, I think the scores put in during the score challenge that just ended yesterday prove easily the touch inputs don't get in the way of precision. Mastering them is a skill in itself, and I can't think of any better way they could have expanded the series' gameplay given the Vita platform.
Mixed feelings on this. On one hand, F2nd is at least halfway a "greatest hits" game and I don't see how you can't include gekishou in that case. Star notes will likely make it a lot easier depending on where they are used.
Kagerou Days is a fine song on it's own but not really worthy of being announced last, and certainly there are enough Miku singles as it is.
Still, there is DLC, and I really liked what they had for F so hopefully we can get some Michie M down the road.
I must agree to disagree. I know that the screen is precise enough to allow skilled players to master and work with it, but that doesn't change the fact that it is, by design, less precise than pushing a button.
A turntable is an actual physical object that gives physical feedback when used. A touchscreen does not do this, and as such I don't think it's a completely apt comparison.
But clearly neither of us is going to budge on this, so I'll leave it at that. I'm disappointed that they seem to be expanding on this in the sequel. Too much and I might just drop this series, I can't stand the touch mechanics.
A turntable is an actual physical object that gives physical feedback when used. A touchscreen does not do this, and as such I don't think it's a completely apt comparison.
But clearly neither of us is going to budge on this, so I'll leave it at that. I'm disappointed that they seem to be expanding on this in the sequel. Too much and I might just drop this series, I can't stand the touch mechanics.
No no no, you don't actually draw something, it's just that a moving star note creates a shape on the screen, input-wise it's really the same thing as the regular star notes, just shown differently on the screen.
Gameplay-wise the only real new star notes are the "w" double notes, which are exactly what they seem.
...which is exactly why they made the timing window for the star notes very loose. You can't possibly miss them unless you are waaaay off, so why is it that much of an issue? Why is it so bad that they added some variety to the gameplay?