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Captain America: The Winter Soldier |OT| "Before we get started...

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Scullibundo said:
You know you've got some quality control issues when out of 4 tiers, Thor 2: The Dark World makes the B-tier.
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good tier:
Captain America 2, Iron Man 3, Iron Man 1
tolerable tier:
the avengers, all justin hammer scenes in Iron Man 2
oh man why have I seen these:
captain america and thor
the damned:
thor 2
 
Discotheque said:
good tier:
Captain America 2, Iron Man 3, Iron Man 1
tolerable tier:
the avengers, all justin hammer scenes in Iron Man 2
oh man why have I seen these:
captain america and thor
the damned:
thor 2
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I think you're nuts with IM3 and I'm probably the biggest Shane Black fanboy here. Film was a misfire. Wasn't altogether awful, but it never really found its groove. The best thing about it is that it was a financial success and will allow Black to do more interesting things.
 
Scullibundo said:
You know you've got some quality control issues when out of 4 tiers, Thor 2: The Dark World makes the B-tier.
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You realize that no superhero movies outside of the Nolan Trilogy have been better received than The Winter Solider, The Avengers, and Iron Man, right?

Time between BB and TDKR: 7 years

Time between IM and TWS: 6 years

Okay, so there were relative stinkers thrown in the mix too. Except they were made by committee and not by an auteur, and much less likely to be cohesive. The "stinkers" are also regarded by fans and critics as being in the mix with the only other decent superhero movies to come out in the last 15 years, like Spider-Man 2 and X2. Marvel Studios is doing excellent work.
 
S-Tier: Avengers
A-Tier: Iron Man, Cap 2, Thor 2, Iron Man 3
B-Tier: Thor, Cap
C-Tier: Iron Man 2
Shit-Tier: Hulk

I liked every MCU film besides Hulk, even Iron Man 2. For me, after seeing Cap 2, Marvel can do no wrong. They seem to hit the right notes for me every time.

Wish I could say the same for the non MCU Marvel films...
 
Scullibundo said:
I think you're nuts with IM3 and I'm probably the biggest Shane Black fanboy here. Film was a misfire. Wasn't altogether awful, but it never really found its groove. The best thing about it is that it was a financial success and will allow Black to do more interesting things.
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plot was a mess but i liked the dialogue. enjoyed the film the most when he got stranded in that snowy town.
 
Scullibundo said:
You realize I don't give a shit how general audiences received these films, right?
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I didn't post the box office receipts. "Wahhhh Avengers did the bestest at the box office, you have to have the same opinion as everyone else!"

You used the phrase "quality control" as though a couple of turds slipped past the laser sensors and into the box of frozen chicken nuggets. I'm saying that reviews from critics and the mouthbreathers being as good as they are, is generally a good indication of something being solidly constructed and having some level of charm/ethos/pathos/excitement.

Some people are just incapable of saying "X part of Y didn't work for me". Like if a person would've preferred a Real Mandarin to Trevor Slattery, Iron Man 3 gets labelled an abortion. I don't get it.
 
Just saw the movie. Really enjoyed it! Was much better than the first Cap movie. It may actually be my favourite movie of Phase 2 so far. Guardians of the Galaxy doesn't look that appealing to me from what I've seen though, so it might be a long wait for Avengers 2.

A Tier: Iron Man, Avengers
B Tier: Captain America 2, Iron Man 3, Iron Man 2, Thor, Thor 2
C Tier: Captain America
D Tier: The Incredible Hulk
 
Great movie. Probably best movie aside from Iron Man and Avengers on its FIRST watch (after that i just realized it was a hollow movie).


Really dug the spy thriller vibes.
 
Blader said:
I think any major stumbling block in getting Whedon to come back for Avengers 3 would actually be on his end rather than Marvel's. Whedon has said a few times that he wants to work on his own stuff again after Avengers 2 is done. He was able to squeeze out Much Ado About Nothing between movies, but if he wants to do anything more extensive than a weekend shoot at his house, I could see that becoming an issue in resigning him for a third movie.
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I just want him to do Infinity Gauntlet at this point. That would be a good enough point for him to stop doing Avenger movies.
 
List time??!?

A TEAM!
IM3 = Cap 2 = AVENGERS (through all it's flaws Avengers IS STILL the most mindless fun of the movie films. Felt that the other 2 are better stories and over all movies where as Avengers is more fun)

B TEAM!
IM1> Thor 2 >>>Thor ( IM1 leads the pack as being the best pre-Avengers film and really deserves to be in the A TEAM if I wasn't popping them in 3s. Thor 2 was a fun film that was better than Thor 1 in all ways! But Thor wasn't a trash flick, it was "OK" at worse)

C TEAM!
Cap 1 > IM2 >>>>> Hulk (if Marvel even wants to remember any of those fucking Hulk films ...)
 
Watched it today and man, they did a great job with those actions scenes. The choreography did an amazing job of looking great while also feeling like it hurt. On top of that, it didn't look like a rubbery CG mess.
 
trinest said:
It has some interesting ideas. But every scene with Iron Man is basically a parody of what Iron Man has become and it wrecks the movie because of it.
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That's what best about it. The best thing about Iron Man 1 and 2 was Tony Stark's snarky, witty self, and Iron Man 3 drops any pretense of being about a dude in a suit of armor doing badass things (something 1 didn't do well at all, and 2 did very sparingly) and just makes it Tony Stark doing Tony Stark things.
 
3phemeral said:
Watched it today and man, they did a great job with those actions scenes. The choreography did an amazing job of looking great while also feeling like it hurt. On top of that, it didn't look like a rubbery CG mess.
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No one should have to use much CG for Cap's fights outside of his shield.

I never understood why they made him CG for that one shot in the Avengers, yet Hawkeye and Thor were actually in the scene. Lol.
 
Tier 1: Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Avengers (close to Tier 2, theater experience made it better than it was)...

The rest are really not much to me. They all fall under a pretty forgettable tier. Iron Man 2 was the worst, but other than that they are all fairly meh. I have followed along though, it's been fun, but I wouldn't need to watch these other ones ever again.
 
Great that everyone enjoyed the movie . LTTP it last Saturday and were enjoying it as well . Great pacing , CGI usage , fights choreography and overall refreshing story . Scarjo might be looking old already , but hngghh

I still think Captain America is a dull and boring character in Comic/Cartoon but he is portrayed very well and cool in the movie , as long as he's not in the uniform . I think he's coolest when wearing just plain outfit with the biker jacket and fighting with the shield .
 
Blader said:
There will very likely be an Iron Man 4 someday, but it won't be until after Avengers 3 and it won't star Downey.
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Oh we know that i guess some are wondering if Downey and crew will ever do another solo film.

Cap 2 is the new king of the hill imho

Cap TWS > Avengers > IronMan > Thor TDW> IM3 > Thor > Cap TFA > IM2 > Inc Hulk
 
Scullibundo said:
Matinee it. Marvel fans have said the same thing about every new empty Marvel film. The Avengers included. This stands as a solid 8/10 standalone film. It's not the best movie ever zomg, but it's a very decent popcorn movie where every other Marvel Studios film has been expensive trash.
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Ha! You're very dramatic.
 
I've had some time to sleep on things but of the phase 2 films I have to rank them in this order now. Granted this could change once I see Winter Soldier again in my own home on blu-ray. I'm not going to see it again in the theater.

Iron Man 3 > Thor: The Dark World> Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

TWS had a LOT of elements I liked but I think the tone and delivery of the story in IM3 was done better. Thor was simply a lot more fun overall. Something about how Winter Solider ended just doesn't sit well with me. Not what happen but how it happens. That whole ending sequence doesn't really do it for me. I think this somewhat confirms for me something I was realizing before. I'm not so much a fan of the Marvel Cinematic Universe as a whole. I'm an Iron Man fan first and foremost. Then my interest seems to lessen as I go through the other characters and films. There is a mandatory need created to see everything even if you don't like what is being offered. This is part of why I don't read comics anymore after trying a several times. I don't like having to spend money on stuff I'm not really all that excited about or super interested in. I see myself collecting the Iron Man films for example. I already have. I can see myself buying Avengers 2 to go along with Avengers 1. I might extend that to Thor but I've yet to buy the first Captain America film and I might only rent this one just to see it again to see if I like it more. I still don't own Hulk either.
 
I liked Winter Solider. I've been trying to determine where I put it with the Marvel films.

I still think only Iron Man 1 and Avengers were good movies and are the only A tier.

I think i would put Winter Soldier in B Tier by itself, then everything else under that.

The thor movies are terrible aside from Hiddleston. The first cap movie had a montage as its main action scene. A freaking montage.
 
Scullibundo said:
Matinee it. Marvel fans have said the same thing about every new empty Marvel film. The Avengers included. This stands as a solid 8/10 standalone film. It's not the best movie ever zomg, but it's a very decent popcorn movie where every other Marvel Studios film has been expensive trash.
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You give an 8/10 to "decent popcorn movies"?
 
List? Oh boy.

S-Tier: Cap 2, Avengers, Iron Man
A-Tier:Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Cap
B-Tier: Thor
C-Tier: Iron Man 2, Hulk

I need to think about it more, but Cap 2 might become my favorite marvel standalone film so far. Hell, it might even top the Avengers for me.
 
Moaradin said:
List? Oh boy.

S-Tier: Cap 2, Avengers, Iron Man
A-Tier:Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Cap
B-Tier: Thor
C-Tier: Iron Man 2, Hulk

I need to think about it more, but Cap 2 might become my favorite marvel standalone film so far. Hell, it might even top the Avengers for me.
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Agree with this.
 
Halcyon said:
I liked Winter Solider. I've been trying to determine where I put it with the Marvel films.

I still think only Iron Man 1 and Avengers were good movies and are the only A tier.

I think i would put Winter Soldier in B Tier by itself, then everything else under that.

The thor movies are terrible aside from Hiddleston. The first cap movie had a montage as its main action scene. A freaking montage.
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I agree with this. The series has been fairly bad aside from Iron Man 1, Avengers and now Winter Soldier. Not that I even thought Winter Soldier was all that great, but it was certainly better than both Thor movies.
 
God Tier: Cap 2, All three Iron Mans

Awesome Tier: Both Thors

Wish I Liked It More Than I Do, Pretty Sweet All The Same Tier: Avengers

Not Great But Still Totally Watchable Tier: Cap 1

Kill Me Right In The Face As Soon As Possible, God This Movie Sucks Tier: The Incredible Hulk
 
Just watched the Avengers after watching Cap 2.


Cap 2 is a good movie. Very good. But it's no Avengers.

The Avengers is the better film imo.

It just had so many good points.
 
Moaradin said:
I need to think about it more, but Cap 2 might become my favorite marvel standalone film so far. Hell, it might even top the Avengers for me.
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I liked what Whedon did with The Avengers but now I kind of want to see how the Russo's would handle the full team if given the chance.
 
Moaradin said:
List? Oh boy.

S-Tier: Cap 2, Avengers, Iron Man
A-Tier:Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Cap
B-Tier: Thor
C-Tier: Iron Man 2, Hulk

I need to think about it more, but Cap 2 might become my favorite marvel standalone film so far. Hell, it might even top the Avengers for me.
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Spot on except IM2 may be even a tier lower.
 
For me imo, this is my rankings:

TWS > Avengers > Iron Man 3 > Iron Man > TFA > Dark World > Iron Man 2 > Thor

Never seen hulk, and just because I rate some higher than others, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the lower end ones.
 
Scullibundo said:
Whedon's problem is that everything he does live-action looks like a goddamn TV show. The guy has the most basic understanding of how to block and move through a space - something that sticks out like a sore thumb when ILM take over for the CG-heavy action scenes, because there is such a jarring disconnect between the two.

Forget the action scenes in The Winter Soldier, just look at how the Russo's communicate information to the audience visually in any other scene - whether it's walking through Shield offices or taking a run downtown.

It takes a special kind of mediocre to get Seamus McGarvey to put out a shitty looking film.
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I really hate to take up for Whedon but in a Q&A for Much Ado About Nothing he admitted his visual eye sucks. He said he was working on getting a better understanding of film language.
 
Discotheque said:
At least he's aware of it, I doubt we'll see results by avengers 2....maybe 3 though haha
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I think Avengers 2 will be a big thing for Whedon: a test of whether he wants to do more Avengers movies, and a test of if he can keep the quality up.

If for some reason Avengers 2 doesn't work out (either it doesn't hit the same bar as Avengers 1, or he decides he's done directing them) I can see him staying on as screenwriter and leaving the directing to the Russo bros since they did a great job.
 
I dunno guys. I don't think the writers behind The Winter Soldier are getting enough credit either. It was certainly better written than The Avengers - which while funny, wasn't all that involving beyond Whedon's normal farcical comedy until the last 30 minute tech demo. And those last 30 minutes are fun, but there's still no real sense of tension or stakes. The Chitauri or whatever the fuck are blank-slate bad guys and Loki isn't exactly exuding narrative menace that you feel, as much as light-hearted, scenery-chewing antagonism.

I was downright engaged in Cap's battles in TWS - not only because they were well choreographed, but because the narrative building blocks preceding them were well-constructed.

I'd rather they give the whole Winter Soldier team a shot at Avengers 3. Apparently they've been at work on Cap 3 since late last year.
 
TWS was a great movie... It is up there with the avengers but am i missing something with Iron Man 3... I thought it was shit should I re-watch
 
Scullibundo said:
I dunno guys. I don't think the writers behind The Winter Soldier are getting enough credit either. It was certainly better written than The Avengers - which while funny, wasn't all that involving beyond Whedon's normal farcical comedy until the last 30 minute tech demo. And those last 30 minutes are fun, but there's still no real sense of tension or stakes. The Chitauri or whatever the fuck are blank-slate bad guys and Loki isn't exactly exuding narrative menace that you feel, as much as light-hearted, scenery-chewing antagonism.

I was downright engaged in Cap's battles in TWS - not only because they were well choreographed, but because the narrative building blocks preceding them were well-constructed.

I'd rather they give the whole Winter Soldier team a shot at Avengers 3. Apparently they've been at work on Cap 3 since late last year.
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I like the personal interactions in TWS. For the first time Steve felt like a character that actually had deep thoughts and reservations about himself. Whedon tried that in Avengers but it felt flat.

Cap and Peggy talking to each other felt so damn natural. Another scene that was well written was when they were looking at Nick's body on the stretcher. That scene was also shot amazingly.
 
Ocelott said:
TWS was a great movie... It is up there with the avengers but am i missing something with Iron Man 3... I thought it was shit should I re-watch
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I thought IM3 was great. I know plenty of people who lie on both sides of that debate.

TheKaeptain said:
Cap and Peggy talking to each other felt so damn natural. Another scene that was well written was when they were looking at Nick's body on the stretcher. That scene was also shot amazingly.
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That scene with
Peggy
really broke my heart, especially Steve's last line...
 
I wouldn't mind seeing the guys who did Cap 2 try their hand at the Avengers. Can't really complain about it other than some typical plot-moving cliches you'd inevitably encounter with movies like these.
 
Scullibundo said:
I dunno guys. I don't think the writers behind The Winter Soldier are getting enough credit either. It was certainly better written than The Avengers - which while funny, wasn't all that involving beyond Whedon's normal farcical comedy until the last 30 minute tech demo. And those last 30 minutes are fun, but there's still no real sense of tension or stakes. The Chitauri or whatever the fuck are blank-slate bad guys and Loki isn't exactly exuding narrative menace that you feel, as much as light-hearted, scenery-chewing antagonism.

I was downright engaged in Cap's battles in TWS - not only because they were well choreographed, but because the narrative building blocks preceding them were well-constructed.

I'd rather they give the whole Winter Soldier team a shot at Avengers 3. Apparently they've been at work on Cap 3 since late last year.
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For better or worse, Marvel has unofficially put Joss Whedon in charge of the MCU from here on out.

So, IDK if the Russo brothers would even WANT to have that kind of stress/pressure.
 
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