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[Always-honest]

That's not the point at all. It's the refusal to acknowledge the societal factors that play into what you're attracted to that makes you, potentially, racist.

Yeah, i don't know. It's more what makes my penis tingle. My preference these days is much more narrow than it used to be. I can't even say that caucasian people are my preference. It's faar more specific than that. No social factors took part in this change, as i dated all kinds of girls from different nationalities. And i used to be attracted to them all (within the margins of my taste). But nowadays, while i'm rationally still open to everyone, the range of girls that i'm attracted to has been narrowed down to a pretty specific group. It's weird.. but there is nothing i can do about it. There are exceptions, and maybe it will turn around again one day, but it is what it is.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Yeah, i don't know. It's more what makes my penis tingle. My preference these days is much more narrow than it used to be. I can't even say that caucasian people are my preference. It's faar more specific than that. No social factors took part in this change, as i dated all kinds of girls from different nationalities. And i used to be attracted to them all (within the margins of my taste). But nowadays, while i'm rationally still open to everyone, the range of girls that i'm attracted to has been narrowed down to a pretty specific group. It's weird.. but there is nothing i can do about it. There are exceptions, and maybe it will turn around again one day, but it is what it is.

Is that narrowed demographic "rich, old widows"? Because that's mainly who I target find attractive too.

 

[Moral Panic]

That's a tad weasley, though, isn't it? It's basically saying "You might not be racist, but you probably are, you just don't know it."

No it's saying:

"I prefer white women. This is likely due to society making the features associated with them (long straightish hair, pale skin) as markers for attractiveness."

Is not racist whereas,

"I prefer white women. This is just my personal preference, black women are just ugly to me."

or

"I prefer white women. It's only natural that people would like their own skin type!"

are.

 

[Ikael]

Physical attraction is a wholly biologically process, with a veeeeeery small layer of culture sprinkled on it, and even said cultural preference has deeply seated natural-selection roots. European culture ideolized fat girls during the medieval times since they were a sign non-famine'd bodies, while the penduluum has swung now into the opposite direction since obesity is a far more common health risk in our opulent XXI society rather than starvation.

There are more than enough scientific evidence that points out that who we consider to be beautiful has a biologic basis, and that it depends quite a lot on facial traits and proportions. Incredibly enough, race largely defines these things.

Not everything in this world and the human beaviour is the result of a sociological construct that can be fought in the context of a neverending cultural war and be molded by sheer force of activism. It is a shocking notion, I know.

 

[erpg]

Maybe it's just the way I read the article, but I find the idea that your position on the sex website totem pole is what make your preferences racist a little weird. Is the black man who is also attracted to something other than black men a racist? The article didn't make that connection, so it just seems like whoever is at an advantage due to factors outside of their own control is a racist for having a sexual preference and not really understanding why.

 

[Fafalada]

In Asia, larger, bigger eyes are considered to be the most feminine. Smaller eyes are masculine.

It's not just masculine vs. feminine - small eyes are considered less attractive, period(to average public and all) - even if it's "westerners" eyes.
But then since we're generalizing, the features Western men supposedly find attractive in eyes/facial structure tend to fall to the less-attractive scale in Asia.

 

[Always-honest]

Is that narrowed demographic "rich, old widows"? Because that's mainly who I target find attractive too.

haha, no. I wish. And for the record, i don't think the narrowing down process is fun.
It's easier if you're attracted to everyone.

 

[Faustek]

Is that narrowed demographic "rich, old widows"? Because that's mainly who I target find attractive too.

Define old? WW1 or just Vietnam?

 

[CyclopsRock]

No it's saying:

"I prefer white women. This is likely due to society making the features associated with them (long straightish hair, pale skin) as markers for attractiveness."

Is not racist whereas,

"I prefer white women. This is just my personal preference, black women are just ugly to me."

or

"I prefer white women. It's only natural that people would like their own skin type!"

are.

That still seems a bit blanket. We have examples in this thread of all different races of people liking all other different races of people more or less. Given this, is it really possible to discount "personal preference" as a legitimate thing?

edit:

Define old? WW1 or just Vietnam?

My definition of "old" is based more on when I think they're likely to die. If I have to wheel them up the aisle, so be it.

 

[StuBurns]

Yeah, i don't know. It's more what makes my penis tingle. My preference these days is much more narrow than it used to be. I can't even say that caucasian people are my preference. It's faar more specific than that. No social factors took part in this change, as i dated all kinds of girls from different nationalities. And i used to be attracted to them all (within the margins of my taste). But nowadays, while i'm rationally still open to everyone, the range of girls that i'm attracted to has been narrowed down to a pretty specific group. It's weird.. but there is nothing i can do about it. There are exceptions, and maybe it will turn around again one day, but it is what it is.

This is also an interesting point. I think dark hair and bright blue eyes is really an incredible thing:

But because it's not a 'race', no one would see it as being unfair to people without that very specific thing.

I don't know, maybe preferring your own race is racist, but as long as I'm not racist in any of the ways that matter, I can live with that, there's certainly nothing I could do about it save for some Clockwork Orange style aversion theory I imagine.

 

[TheYanger]

what i find off-putting is people who say they are only into certain types and nothing else. ex. you were to say that you only find asian and spanish women attractive.

What's wrong with that?

I like all women, but I mean preference is preference, if someone REALLY only liked black women or asian women or martians or whatever, who gives a shit. It's not racist to like what you like, it's ridiculous as fuck to be judged for it. We're not talking about persecuting people, we're talking about your own personal tastes.

If anything, it's ridiculous to insinuate that it's insulting to anyone else that they don't get to experience the joy of being blessed by someone's penis because of their race. There are billions of other people of the appropriate gender on the planet, so who cares.


There are plenty of women who aren't attracted to me because I'm overweight, it's not THEIR fault that I am though. If they're not attracted to me because I'm white, that's no more their fault.

 

[dapperbandit]

haha, no. I wish. And for the record, i don't think the narrowing down process is fun.
It's easier if you're attracted to everyone.

I'd rather everyone was attracted to me instead

 

[TnK]

"found to be beautiful by all other races"? What, you mean like every human on the planet thinks she's beautiful? It's not like an entire race can have the same opinion of someone. Your question is weirdly worded and might reveal a fundamental flaw in your thought process on this subject.

Being found beautiful by every single person on earth is impossible, that I am fully aware of, lol. I guess I should have included the majority.

Let's change the question to "found to be beautiful by the majority of all races"

 

[Bold One]

*puts on tin foil*

I've always felt like these threads are traps. Do you work with different members in order to bring all the wackos out and thin the herd?

yup, this feels like an attempt at a culling

 

[Always-honest]

This is also an interesting point. I think dark hair and bright blue eyes is really an incredible thing:



But because it's not a 'race', no one would see it as being unfair to people without that very specific thing.

I don't know, maybe preferring your own race is racist, but as long as I'm not racist in any of the ways that matter, I can live with that, there's certainly nothing I could do about it save for some Clockwork Orange style aversion theory I imagine.

We're always "unfair" to someone when it comes to attraction.
For some the field is narrow, for some the field is wide. It's weird when you narrow down your options based on principles. But that's not the case here.

I'd rather everyone was attracted to me instead

haha, that would make it too easy. And you would have no friends and one HELL of a jealous girlfriend.
Or a shitload of them ;P

 

[Faustek]

My definition of "old" is based more on when I think they're likely to die. If I have to wheel them up the aisle, so be it.

I can sorta respect that. Specific kinks must be really harsh whereas just needing to try everything just comes of as lazy by comparison.

 

[Moral Panic]

That still seems a bit blanket. We have examples in this thread of all different races of people liking all other different races of people more or less. Given this, is it really possible to discount "personal preference" as a legitimate thing?

I'm not sure I 100% agree with calling people racist because they don't understand their privilege, but I don't think "personal preference" has much basis at all.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/

White women prefer white men to the exclusion of everyone else—and Asian and Hispanic women prefer them even more exclusively. These three types of women only respond well to white men. More significantly, these groups’ reply rates to non-whites is terrible.

The takeaway here is that although race shouldn’t matter in messaging, it does. A lot.

Unless White Men are "naturally" better looking or OKCupid's sampling is absolutely terrible, I will have no qualms in calling "personal preference" bullshit. It's conditioning by society that explains those trends.

 

[Skinpop]

I'm speaking about encounters here in Canada, I'm not sure it matters where though.

My point is that it's perfectly okay to be loved because of what you are. In fact, you should be loved specifically because of your features: tall, short, funny, cool, blonde, dark-haired, funny, smart..... Whatever they are.

But ethnicity and culture is the biggest bundle of features at all, and it's ok/normal/healthy/expected to be judged and loved by such features!

Taking your point, the Korean girlfriend who you love for looking Korean shouldn't feel any more weirded out than a blonde girlfriend who you love for being blonde. People like traits. Not weird at all.

I think that's the issue though, "bundle of features". It's not something unique to be a korean in korea after all. And that's why the circumstances matter, a korean in most western countries is unique just by being korean, in her home country she isn't.

I agree fully with appreciating features like blond hair, short, tall funny and so on. "I love you because of your great hair and soothing voice" sound ok right, "I love you because you are korean" sounds creepy.

 

[Kreed]

I'll describe this in the best way I can: the prettiest Asian female is, to me, prettier than the prettiest female of any other race or ethnicity. I've got that typical yellow fever. Japanese, Korean, Chinese, whatever. I just find myself more attracted to them.

I've talked to people who find this trait of mine to be off-putting, but I think it's pretty common and I believe that everyone has a preference. That's not to say that other girls aren't attractive to me - of course they are - but I still have my favorites.

Is there anything socially wrong with this? Does anyone else share these feelings?

Edit: Yes, I am a white male, and yes, I have an Asian girlfriend who is aware of this.

The problem with threads like these is often people confuse having a preference to being exclusive. Preferences IMO are ok, even when it comes to dating/socializing. It's being exclusive, as in "I only date people from x group, and will not date anyone from any other groups under any circumstances" that you should question socially.

Physical attraction is a wholly biologically process, with a veeeeeery small layer of culture sprinkled on it, and even said cultural preference has deeply seated natural-selection roots. European culture ideolized fat girls during the medieval times since they were a sign non-famine'd bodies, while the penduluum has swung now into the opposite direction since obesity is a far more common health risk in our opulent XXI society rather than starvation.

There are more than enough scientific evidence that points out that who we consider to be beautiful has a biologic basis, and that it depends quite a lot on facial traits and proportions. Incredibly enough, race largely defines these things.

Not everything in this world and the human beaviour is the result of a sociological construct that can be fought in the context of a neverending cultural war and be molded by sheer force of activism. It is a shocking notion, I know.

If you're going to post pseudo science in the thread about well known social constructs and present it as scientific fact, at the very least post a link that doesn't end with:

None of this absolutely proves Dr Elia’s hypothesis. But it looks plausible.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Unless White Men are "naturally" better looking or OKCupid's sampling is absolutely terrible, I will have no qualms in calling "personal preference" bullshit. It's conditioning by society that explains those trends.

I don't disagree with you in a general sense, but there's too many people trying to point their finger at just one cause across the board. It doesn't really work that way.

 

[TheYanger]

I'm not sure I 100% agree with calling people racist because they don't understand their privilege, but I don't think "personal preference" has much basis at all.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/





Unless White Men are "naturally" better looking or OKCupid's sampling is absolutely terrible, I will have no qualms in calling "personal preference" bullshit. It's conditioning by society that explains those trends.

Everything is based on your cultural upbringing. What is your point?
Your preference for people to be 'fit' is cultural.
Your preference for people to have teeth that aren't rotting is cultural.
You literally cannot remove culture from someone's preferences, so what is your point?

I like women with big boobs, round butts, and cute faces. Whether that is culturally ingrained or not is kind of irrelevent, it's what I like. If similarly I like them to be white, that's no different and certainly not racist. I don't feel bad for liking the first few things, why should I feel bad about the latter? (And again, I like women of basically any race but if I didn't that wouldn't matter).

I'm not oppressing anyone by being disinterested in them, neither is anybody else. How can you call it racism? Do you consider it anti-feminist if I were gay and only liked men?

 

[Always-honest]

I'm not sure I 100% agree with calling people racist because they don't understand their privilege, but I don't think "personal preference" has much basis at all.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/





Unless White Men are "naturally" better looking or OKCupid's sampling is absolutely terrible, I will have no qualms in calling "personal preference" bullshit. It's conditioning by society that explains those trends.

That's relationship related. I'd like to know the outcome when it's just sex. Cause that's the attraction we're talking about. Lots of the dating sites stuff is making a strategy for the rest of your life. A lot of people (maybe women even more, i guess from a historic perspective) tend to choose for more than just physical attraction when it comes to relationships.

And yes. A lot of social conditioning then comes in to play.

 

[KillGore]

Nothing wrong with that

Im half white american and half white hispanic. I'm usually attracted to white hispanic women. My fiancé is white hispanic.

 

[theignoramus]

I'm not sure I 100% agree with calling people racist because they don't understand their privilege, but I don't think "personal preference" has much basis at all.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/





Unless White Men are "naturally" better looking or OKCupid's sampling is absolutely terrible, I will have no qualms in calling "personal preference" bullshit. It's conditioning by society that explains those trends.

And what a coincidence that the group most commonly up for dismissal in these kind of "racial preference" threads, black women, top the statistics for "most neglected group" on OKCupid. Im afraid I cant accept an innocuous explanation for that.

 

[Petrie]

That's not the point at all. It's the refusal to acknowledge the societal factors that play into what you're attracted to that makes you, potentially, racist.

Because for me they don't. And you can't prove otherwise no matter how hard you insist.

 

[jorma]

That's not the point at all. It's the refusal to acknowledge the societal factors that play into what you're attracted to that makes you, potentially, racist.

I don't see the point. Wether a persons preferences are bilogical, cultural or maybe just a product of personal experience - it changes nothing.
You like what you like.

 

[Sneds]

Physical attraction is a wholly biologically process, with a veeeeeery small layer of culture sprinkled on it, and even said cultural preference has deeply seated natural-selection roots. European culture ideolized fat girls during the medieval times since they were a sign non-famine'd bodies, while the penduluum has swung now into the opposite direction since obesity is a far more common health risk in our opulent XXI society rather than starvation.

There are more than enough scientific evidence that points out that who we consider to be beautiful has a biologic basis, and that it depends quite a lot on facial traits and proportions. Incredibly enough, race largely defines these things.

Not everything in this world and the human beaviour is the result of a sociological construct that can be fought in the context of a neverending cultural war and be molded by sheer force of activism. It is a shocking notion, I know.

Being overweight was considered beautiful in the medieval period because it was a sign of sign of wealth and social status. Very pale skin was also a sign of beauty for the same reasons. People's aversion to obesity today has very little, if anything, to do with natural selection.

Your claim that attraction has merely "a veeeeeery small layer of culture sprinkled on it" is clearly nonsense. People are attracted to each other's hairstyles, dress sense, accent, and a whole variety of other things which are entirely cultural.

 

[Moral Panic]

Everything is based on your cultural upbringing. What is your point?
Your preference for people to be 'fit' is cultural.
Your preference for people to have teeth that aren't rotting is cultural.
You literally cannot remove culture from someone's preferences, so what is your point?

I like women with big boobs, round butts, and cute faces. Whether that is culturally ingrained or not is kind of irrelevent, it's what I like. If similarly I like them to be white, that's no different and certainly not racist. I don't feel bad for liking the first few things, why should I feel bad about the latter? (And again, I like women of basically any race but if I didn't that wouldn't matter).

I'm not oppressing anyone by being disinterested in them, neither is anybody else. How can you call it racism? Do you consider it anti-feminist if I were gay and only liked men?

This reply puts it best:

That's not the point at all. It's the refusal to acknowledge the societal factors that play into what you're attracted to that makes you, potentially, racist.

 

[Htown]

If you dismiss an entire race of people as unattractive, despite the fact that within each race there are wide varieties in skin tone and personal appearance, you are being racist. Full stop.

It is probably not entirely your fault, thanks to what others have mentioned about societal factors at play, but it is what it is.

Tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better.

 

[Aristion]

I don't find their physical features attractive. In a lifetime of experiences with women this has rung true. I'm always prepared to be proven wrong.

Are you saying that black people have the same general facial structure?

Do you realize that west Africans are more genetically disparate from East Africans than either are from white Europeans?

Do you realize that Ethiopians and other East African peoples have narrower noses and more typically Caucasian facial-features?

How silly are you to claim that an entire CONTINENT of people are genetically similar when Africans are the most genetically diverse people on the planet?

Each time you say it's racist to claim you don't find physical traits of a race attractive, you are trying to claim such differences don't exist.

Black people from a large ass continent with the most genetic diversity in the world.

There isn't a single set of fixed facial features, hair texture and skin color to be found amongst Africans.

Somalians and Ethiopians look VERY different from Liberians and other west Africans.

Stop being so damn myopic and ignorant.

 

[Bold One]

I am almost exclusively attracted to caucasian people. (For what it's worth, I am ethnically half-Dutch, half-Welsh, and grew up in Australia.)

For instance, when porning, I will skip past non-caucasians. It just doesn't do anything for me. However, in social situations I can still develop feelings of attraction (based more so on personality), but it takes me much longer to warm up to them. Having said that, my last boyfriend was half Sri Lankan, half white, and that was attraction at first sight.

I dunno. Am I racist?

I'm Australian, so probably.

yh probably (lol) I kid

sounds like you are predominantly raised in a white community, in white environments so yh....

you won't miss what you don't know.

 

[Always-honest]

This reply puts it best:

There "might" be societal factors involved in some cases. Though in here i think most know about these things and most will have considered them.

 

[Moral Panic]

There "might" be societal factors involved in some cases. Though in here i think most know about these things and most will have considered them.

That actually made me laugh out loud. Well done.

 

[KibblesBits]

I don't believe in discrimination so, nope. And yes, it IS discrimination. There is beauty to be found in all people. Discounting a whole ethnicity or preferring one over another is weird and alien and off putting to me. I don't really allow myself to become close to people even friend wise who admit to such behaviors.

 

[The Librarian]

As far as I can remember I've only been attracted to people with lighter skin, though I can definitely imagine some scenarios where I would find people of other races attractive – I just have to meet the right person.

I will say, though, that black hair + blue eyes combination is the prettiest out there.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I will say, though, that black hair + blue eyes combination is the prettiest out there.

*nods*

Dark brown too.

 

[Always-honest]

That actually made me laugh out loud. Well done.

Why? Did i say something weird? Sorry, english is not my first language.

 

[besada]

I find most people attractive. I know, that's sort of weird, and I don't really know how I got here, but it's true. Neither race, nor age, nor size (within certain boundaries, of course) are turn-offs for me. 18-55, all colors, from tiny to thick.

I don't really understand how some people can't see the beauty in these women, but since I don't know why I do, it's difficult for me to start hosing around blame.

 

[HappyBivouac]

That actually made me laugh out loud. Well done.

He said "most," not necessarily the loudest and most obnoxious individuals.

 

[TheYanger]

This reply puts it best:

What does that even mean? It doesn't matter whether you acknowledge anything or not, it is inherantly not racist.

You cannot divorce a person from a society or a culture, and the simple fact of living AROUND PEOPLE is going to cause you to have preferences. Hell, even not living around people will cause you to probably have preferences. Whether I acknowledge that this is the case or not, really has no effect on the end result here, so why is it racist in ANY scenario?

Two guys, who both like white women, one of which is a well educated lawyer and one of which is a redneck bumpkin.

One is eloquent enough to say "I like white women because of societal factors beyond my control, not because I inherantly dislike others for any specific reason"

One is simple as hell and simply says "I like white women because I just do"

One of these is racist and one is not? Give me a break. Knowing WHY you like something more than something else is completely irrelevant. It doesn't change the end result, it doesn't change the cause, and unless it makes you start acting shitty to other races, it certainly doesn't make you racist (and not finding them as attractive is NOT 'acting shitty' towards anyone).

 

[Laieon]

I find certain races more attractive than other races, and there's a race or two that I don't usually find to be all that attractive, although there's always exceptions.

As long as race isn't the only factor you look for, I don't see the problem.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

There are way too many attractive people of all skin tones and features for me to discount one group entirely or hold one above the others.

 

[Always-honest]

I find most people attractive. I know, that's sort of weird, and I don't really know how I got here, but it's true. Neither race, nor age, nor size (within certain boundaries, of course) are turn-offs for me. 18-55, all colors, from tiny to thick.

I don't really understand how some people can't see the beauty in these women, but since I don't know why I do, it's difficult for me to start hosing around blame.

i really wish i had this.
And it's not about not being able to see their beauty... it's about getting turned on by them.
I'd consider most people beautiful.

I don't believe in discrimination so, nope. And yes, it IS discrimination. There is beauty to be found in all people. Discounting a whole ethnicity or preferring one over another is weird and alien and off putting to me. I don't really allow myself to become close to people even friend wise who admit to such behaviors.

There IS beauty to be found in all people, i agree. That doesn't mean i'm attracted to all people though. I doubt you are either. Thoug i could be wrong. Lucky you in that case.

 

[Sneds]

What does that even mean? It doesn't matter whether you acknowledge anything or not, it is inherantly not racist.

You cannot divorce a person from a society or a culture, and the simple fact of living AROUND PEOPLE is going to cause you to have preferences. Hell, even not living around people will cause you to probably have preferences. Whether I acknowledge that this is the case or not, really has no effect on the end result here, so why is it racist in ANY scenario?

Two guys, who both like white women, one of which is a well educated lawyer and one of which is a redneck bumpkin.

One is eloquent enough to say "I like white women because of societal factors beyond my control, not because I inherantly dislike others for any specific reason"

One is simple as hell and simply says "I like white women because I just do"

One of these is racist and one is not? Give me a break. Knowing WHY you like something more than something else is completely irrelevant. It doesn't change the end result, it doesn't change the cause, and unless it makes you start acting shitty to other races, it certainly doesn't make you racist (and not finding them as attractive is NOT 'acting shitty' towards anyone).

Racism isn't confined to "acting shitty" to people from other races.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I don't believe in discrimination so, nope. And yes, it IS discrimination. There is beauty to be found in all people. Discounting a whole ethnicity or preferring one over another is weird and alien and off putting to me. I don't really allow myself to become close to people even friend wise who admit to such behaviors.

Let's say I find black hair more appealing than blonde hair. Wouldn't it then follow that, given equal sample sizes, I would be attracted to fewer white women than women of certain other races? Where do you draw the line? Do you just like everything or not like anything?

 

[Bold One]

I find most people attractive. I know, that's sort of weird, and I don't really know how I got here, but it's true. Neither race, nor age, nor size (within certain boundaries, of course) are turn-offs for me. 18-55, all colors, from tiny to thick.

I don't really understand how some people can't see the beauty in these women, but since I don't know why I do, it's difficult for me to start hosing around blame.

I find that the older we get the more we start to appreciate the diversities inherent in the human genetic ocean. every single ethnicity has some quintessential trait that is 'desirable'.

some people limit themselves (subsconscioulsy or otherwise) others dont

 

[HappyBivouac]

I find that the older we get the more we start to appreciate the diversities inherent in the human genetic ocean. every single ethnicity has some quintessential trait that is 'desirable'.

some people limit themselves others dont

The thread was never about limiting oneself. If you actually do hard-limit yourself, then you probably do have some warped notions.

 

[TheYanger]

Racism isn't confined to "acting shitty" to people from other races.

Oh ok, so this is going to be one of those discussions where it's racist to even recognize that people have a race?

Or are you saying because it's 'elevating' one race above another? which I would agree with as perhaps a societal issue, but this isn't a societal issue, this is about individuals. I get to choose ONE person to be with, if you want to say society is racist and influences my decision, whatever that's a different argument you're free to have it, but it does not make an individual racist to choose to be with the person that makes them the most happy, based on any criteria they choose.

You need to divorce the overall from the individual, which is an entirely different focus.

 

[.GqueB.]

I think we spend too much time trying to intellectualize something that's mostly chemical. There are certainly reasons that you may not be attracted to a certain type of person but you'd be hard pressed to actually explain it to anyone.

 

[besada]

i really wish i had this.
And it's not about not being able to see their beauty... it's about getting turned on by them.
I'd consider most people beautiful.

Well, I'm married, so ultimately seeing women who get me excited isn't really all that helpful anyway.