The point is that the proposition doesn't gel with a lot of people's life experience because they haven't experienced it yet: they are unaware of culture's subconscious effect on their preferences.
Having an aesthetic racial preference
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The point is that the proposition doesn't gel with a lot of people's life experience because they haven't experienced it yet: they are unaware of culture's subconscious effect on their preferences.
Definitely not. The fact is however that society does influence preferences and in a large way, whether or not one is conscious of it. It's not so simple a thing as 'oh there's a beauty standard so we must all be conditioned to it by default', it's much more complex than that.
Your experience does not represent everyone, and that's the point. It's not sketchy at all.
Kadayi
Banned
I fail to see what's the problem with being generally attracted or not attracted to a particular race/races when it comes to visuals. Certain ones just do it for a person and other ones don't. Before anyone goes screaming I'm a racist white guy, I'm half black/asian. If some white woman or indian woman isn't attracted to black men, that's fine by me because she doesn't owe it to me to like me, as long as it's confined to visuals. When she starts making assumptions about my character based upon my skin color, and thus, not liking me without even saying a word to me, then yes, that's racist.
Always-honest
Banned
I think everyone has a margin of what they think is sexy. So do you. It doesn't help acting like the most openminded person on earth. It's normal to be attracted to some and not to others. Some may have a much broader field of interest. But that's in now way better or worse. Just different.
That's different from saying every person has beauty. Allthough it sounds a bit hippylike, i do think people are beautiful, just like you. I know plenty of people who i think are beautiful people. There is however only a small percentage of these people that i'd consider attractive (as in: i'd get sexual desire from looking at them). The reasons for that could be simple or really divers. Some people are picky by nature. Some people get picky or less picky when they grow older. Our taste changes over time. And none of this HAS to have anything to do with being closeminded or judgemental or a racist. I'm not saying there CAN'T be racist elements involved and there could be ignorance involved. But that's not always the case.
Personally, my taste in women has narrowed over the years. I still think a lot of women are atractive but i develloped a preference for a certain type of woman. Not by rationally dismissing others. I'm open to all and an openminded person in general. I have dated and loved women from different nationalities and skincolour. But I can't help the enourmous attraction i developed for that certain type of woman. And that's completely without hating on other people or excluding other people.
Like someone suggested: if there was a line of 50 people and you had to choose one to have sex with, then my eye would be drawn to the people that fit the ideal combination of my preference. I doubt it will be any different with other people.
Not all people limit the,selves knowingly. You said "sexy is sexy", but that says nothing. It does say that even you have an image of what you'd consider sexy. I doubt you think everyone on the planet is sexy in your eyes. As in, you would like to have sex with.
Not sure if we ever had any misundertsandings in other topics by the way.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
They commonly do though.
Try marketing the popular-in-Asia double eyelid fold surgery to Caucasians!
But I'm not talking about you, or any particular individual. I'm arguing that the dominant conceptions of what things are considered attractive are partially shaped by one's culture. This does not mean that your individual experiences in your own life do not shape your individual predilections, or that you've necessarily absorbed these messages unquestioningly. What I'm arguing regarding attitudes of racial attractiveness, and in particular the pattern of denying that black people are attractive, actually fits in well with a broader patterns in racial attitudes vis-a-vis black people.
In the United States, we pick up on a lot of subconscious racism. When respondents are asked to imagine a drug dealer or drug user, 95% imagined a black man. In another study, 60 percent of viewers who watched a story with no image falsely recalled seeing one, and 70 percent of those viewers believed the perpetrator was black. In another study involving a video where photographs of black and white individuals holding either a gun or an innocuous object was placed into various photographic backgrounds demonstrated differences in how respondents reacted to black and white individuals: Participants were told to respond as quickly as possible to decide whether to shoot the target or not, and they consistently mistook the black target as armed when he was not and the white target as unarmed. In the famous doll studies, children were asked to look at dolls that hair and skin aside looked identical to one another, and they showed a clear preference for the white doll because it was perceived as being nicer and being more attractive and having a nicer color. A replication of the study in 2006 found a similar pattern with similar reasons; the children associated the white doll with "pretty" or "good" and the black dolls ith "ugly" or "bad." In 2010, psychologists tested children ages 4 to 5 and ages 9 to 10 about their racial attitudes in a pilot study. They asked children a series of questions and then had them answer by pointing to one of the five cartoon pictures that varied in skin color from light to dark; the older children were also asked a series of questions about a color bar chart that showed light to dark skin. The tests showed that white children, as a group, responded with a high rate of "white bias," identifying the color of their own skin with positive attributes and darker skin with negative attributes. Even black children had some bias towards whiteness, though far less than white children. Researchers suggested that this difference may be ascribed to the fact that parents of color are more willing to address race and racial messages in an explicit way, reframing what their children experience that helps to mitigate those attitudes.
These are broad patterns. I'm sure nearly everyone will say, "Well, I wouldn't have said something racist like that as a child," or, "Well, I wouldn't have imagined that there was a black man in the news story," or, "I wouldn't be more likely to believe the black man is dangerous and shoot him when he was unarmed," and any one individual could well be right. But the numbers suggested that they are probably more lacking in self-awareness than they are devoid of internalized racist attitudes. And when I read a topic on GAF about whether black women are attractive, and I see people arguing vociferously that they've never seen a black woman they found attractive, that these are just "my preferences," that they are unexplained, and these attitudes are widespread and particularly represented among white posters, I see the same attitudes as the kids in the doll experiments, all grown up.
My explanation is that these patterns of attitudes - that black people are criminal, that black people are dangerous, that black people are unattractive, that black people are not as intelligent, that black people are not as good - can be attributed to racial schemas that are learned through the process of socialization and absorption of cultural messages.
What is your alternate explanation for these patterns?
About as common as western-males have long-pointy noses, if we want to go down that road. You need to get selective with ethnic/geographic area you define as "asians" to make it a majority.BocoDragon said:
Cosmetic surgeries just reflect social aesthetic preferences - ie. west is much bigger on augments than facial features.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think it's pretty clear that sexual imprinting occurs on you when you are young. The imagery of your early life guides your taste.
And that imagery is obviously governed by the condition of society in your youth. This includes ethnic politics, among so many other factors.
I just happen to think that, once you have developed your taste, your freedom to enjoy your tastes is blameless... And I don't appreciate attempts to vilify whatever that taste may be.
Besides, while things like "Caucasian standards of beauty imprinted on children" are very true, I think kids are just as imprinted by fringe and niche experiences: a kind smile from an immigrant nanny, a foreign film which represents something fresh and different from the mundanity of the world around you, or a random encounter with a smile from person of X ethnicity while you are at the supermarket with your mom.
You're going to get some imagery as a youth. You're not going to be imprinted upon by all people of the world equally even in a utopia.... So let's not act like whatever tastes come out the other side are in any way deplorable. In the end, people like what they're gonna like.
And that imagery is obviously governed by the condition of society in your youth. This includes ethnic politics, among so many other factors.
I just happen to think that, once you have developed your taste, your freedom to enjoy your tastes is blameless... And I don't appreciate attempts to vilify whatever that taste may be.
Besides, while things like "Caucasian standards of beauty imprinted on children" are very true, I think kids are just as imprinted by fringe and niche experiences: a kind smile from an immigrant nanny, a foreign film which represents something fresh and different from the mundanity of the world around you, or a random encounter with a smile from person of X ethnicity while you are at the supermarket with your mom.
You're going to get some imagery as a youth. You're not going to be imprinted upon by all people of the world equally even in a utopia.... So let's not act like whatever tastes come out the other side are in any way deplorable. In the end, people like what they're gonna like.
Always-honest
Banned
Sure. But it's not something that can't change over the years. There are many more influences than just childhood. Though i agree that it's an important influence. Friends, highschool, traveling, moving to another city, even traumas, etc can also be of influence. Not to mention personality. I know plenty of people who are radically different from their parents or their surroundings.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to downplay the imprinting that is happening while you grow up and while living in a certain society.
You certainly do say a lot of" things". Thankfully it's all very interesting.
But I think you could've stopped here. I don't think they're synonymous when used in the context of this conversation as its typically held. "Society" is used much differently than the word culture. That's our disconnect.
The Henery
Member
Kadayi
Banned
I admire your passion but the inherent problem with your example is that it pertains to colour not necessarily to form, and that for me seems to be a huge deficit in your assertions because form is a significant factor in terms of how as a species we evaluate each other.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Everyone has preferences and biases whether they want to admit it or play high-and-might on the internet.
I like all women, but I generally believe Latina women are the most attractive.
I like all women, but I generally believe Latina women are the most attractive.
I think everyone has this to some extent. People have natural preferences that they can't necessarily break, and that's not a bad thing. As long as it's not consciously racially motivated against one or more races, then I don't see it as negative. You're attracted to who you're attracted to. You can't help that.
clearacell
Member
When anyone refers to "race", it's an automatic discussion about stereotypes. I don't have that, I live in one of the most diverse areas in the world (Los Angeles) and have grown up with exceptions and exceptional people. Aesthetically I think "healthy as to not lose her breath while eating" to be a good gauge on what I think of bodies...and large eyes are probably the one physical aspect on a woman that hits that button for me, because to me when I look into a woman's eyes all I see is "life". Boobs, ass, long legs, those are all well and good but they aren't the things that make me stop in my tracks and say wow. Beautiful eyes, however, have made me stare like an idiot before.
Personality really is the determining factor on attractiveness to me, with physical aspects having nothing to do with a certain race, but physical aspects play a major role in how I see a person, not gonna lie.
Absence of what? Instinctive attraction? Because as far as I'm aware everyone agrees that exists. Where the disagreement stems is the notion that it's the sole determining factor or that society's impact on our attraction preferences is negligible. You'll have to do better than a one-liner if you want to prove a point.
That rather agrees with her post - the accepted standard of beauty is to which all races are judged. It is cultural. Or perhaps you were getting at something else? Explain how her post wouldn't apply to form.
The point is we should strive to understand why that is so, because there are factors at play in determining attraction preferences, both instinctive and societal.
The problem is when a lot of people say things like "oh i don't date black guys" or whatever, it usually IS because of a negative character stereotype of that race.
Excellent post, Mumei.
How? Have you been reading this thread since the beginning?
Of the few posters who have gone into detail about why they aren't attracted to black people, the majority of them have listed skin tone as the primary factor.
I disagree with this. I can only use myself as an example, and you have no reason to take my word for it, but I can honestly say that I don't have a preference. I just don't think that deeply about race when it comes to what I'm attracted to, largely because all races have gorgeous features and I've been exposed to that throughout my life. There's no "standard version" of any race, and I think it's petty to even attempt to compartmentalize in that way.
How? Have you been reading this thread since the beginning?
Of the few posters who have gone into detail about why they aren't attracted to black people, the majority of them have listed skin tone as the primary factor.
I disagree with this. I can only use myself as an example, and you have no reason to take my word for it, but I can honestly say that I don't have a preference. I just don't think that deeply about race when it comes to what I'm attracted to, largely because all races have gorgeous features and I've been exposed to that throughout my life. There's no "standard version" of any race, and I think it's petty to even attempt to compartmentalize in that way.
Way to read the thread, champ.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Some of it has got to do with proportions, right? Living in the SW, there are just SO many attractive white girls bouncing around that it isn't even really fair to compare them with black women.
I agree with the first part of your post (and ONLY the first part).
I'm a black guy who has mostly been involved with white guys. But not because I have a preference for white men. Fact is I live in the white part of a mostly white neighborhood, I went to a college with a student body comprised of mostly white people, most of my corworkers are white, and most of my friends are white. And on top of all that I don't discriminate. So that I primarily end up with white men is not the sign of a preference; it's simple statistics.
And honestly, for the people in this thread who are genuinely making an effort to not be offensive, aren't actually racist, and are just trying to explore their viewpoint, it honestly seems to me like they live their lives the way that I do, but are confusing the type of person their statistically likely to date with having a racial preference.
I dunno...
I can say I don't have a particular aesthetic preference with the exception of big bootys which isn't exclusive to a race
Kadayi
Banned
Cultural bias. If it exists then it must be quantifiable. There has to be a point where in one can clearly parse it from other factors.
All I see is a lot of nebulous extrapolation around colour framed from an atypical US perspective, but with nothing pertaining to the impact of form. The rules regarding what people of all cultures find attractive are largely universal (near symmetry being a key element.). Does skin colour play a role? Yes, but again on the whole according to anthropologists it's common to all cultures. Which kind of flies in the face of the racism angle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness
And now suddenly this small pool of posters is evidence of a wider problem because it supports your belief system?
Yet I if I put forward that I find Lupita Nyong'o far more attractive than Beyonce I suspect that's simply besides the point? No?
Personally I find the idea of 'I like Asian women' (for example) both limiting and also reductive. It's like a barrier to seeing the person as equal Vs construct, and that's just dysfunctional.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I generally pretend that I'm completely attracted to all races equally. And I used to NeoGAF before I outed myself. And I do try to, but I am unsuccessful at all. Even though I want to be attracted to all races equally, I find it really hard to do.
That being said, I am certainly attracted to people of all races. And I think everyone should be. Something about not dating someone because of their race seems very wrong. And I don't understand why someone would not be attracted to people of all races. I don't think there's a good reason for that. And would probably come from racism.
Also, I wouldn't let someone I was attracted to know that I have any feelings of being attracted to some races more than others. Like dark skin, or round noses, or afro-textured hair. Many people find it extremely racist and offensive to do this. I used to openly have racial preferences in dating, but I was told it was extremely fetishistic and offensive, that they would never date anyone who had any racial preferences in dating. And that everyone should find all races equally attractive, or else they are being very racist. So I've tried to change my ways.
They are probably right and I was being racist and it's offensive to have racial preferences in dating. And so I certainly try to find all races equally attractive. And having learned that it is racist, I don't generally approve of it or tell other people that it is okay. I don't think it's a good idea to have racial preferences in dating and should be avoided. And I definitely don't think that one should tell other people that they have racial preferences in dating.
That being said, I am certainly attracted to people of all races. And I think everyone should be. Something about not dating someone because of their race seems very wrong. And I don't understand why someone would not be attracted to people of all races. I don't think there's a good reason for that. And would probably come from racism.
Also, I wouldn't let someone I was attracted to know that I have any feelings of being attracted to some races more than others. Like dark skin, or round noses, or afro-textured hair. Many people find it extremely racist and offensive to do this. I used to openly have racial preferences in dating, but I was told it was extremely fetishistic and offensive, that they would never date anyone who had any racial preferences in dating. And that everyone should find all races equally attractive, or else they are being very racist. So I've tried to change my ways.
They are probably right and I was being racist and it's offensive to have racial preferences in dating. And so I certainly try to find all races equally attractive. And having learned that it is racist, I don't generally approve of it or tell other people that it is okay. I don't think it's a good idea to have racial preferences in dating and should be avoided. And I definitely don't think that one should tell other people that they have racial preferences in dating.
tearsofash
Member
I want to fuck someone from all the races. Maybe it's because I like anthropology and I'm attracted to all their cultures, maybe I'm a slut. :x
SlipperyMoose
Member
I have seen pretty girls of every race but there is nothing wrong with leaning towards one or the other. Just because you like one thing doesn't mean you are putting down the other, it's just not for you.
I'm white and usually lean towards white or Spanish.
I'm white and usually lean towards white or Spanish.
Now you're just being pointless combative. Mumei just went over, in glorious detail, evidence a wider problem. You made a claim that form has more to do with attractiveness than color (a claim which is equally unsubstantiated, if not moreso, than any claim anyone else has made in this thread), at which point I pointed out the majority opinion stated in this thread for the purpose of this discussion.
But, going along with your claim that form is more important for a second, again...what's your point? Is there some body type I'm unaware of that is exclusive to black people or races other than black people?
Kadayi
Banned
I just linked you to the wiki page all about physical attractiveness and the various studies made regarding it. There are plenty of links off of there on the subject of how symmetry is a key factor in our attraction to others as well as the reasons why.
I saw that. What I don't understand is why you think this counteracts the larger point people have been making in this thread about cultural conditioning and how it can have an effect on what we as a society find attractive and desirable.
You keep retreating to physical form in your haste to deny the effect of the media and cultural representation of something as "standard", so much as to deny skin-tone--which is a feature listed in the very link that you posted. So now I'm asking you, if not color, what physical features are you referring to here that are exclusive to black people? What is the point you are trying to make about "form" here?
RockTurtle
Member
what? no. no. that's crazy.
you can be conscious of your tastes and if they bother you, then you can make a conscious effort to overcome them. but that's because you feel there's something wrong and can justify your need to change.
But you can't say that because someone else has a preference for specific aesthetics. that's you applying your own derivatives onto someone else and expecting them to adhere to YOUR tastes or standards.
It's true that sometimes it's better to not let your mouth speak of your tastes lest you offend someone (and it seems a lot of people here are offended that someone let them know they don't look like relationship material to them) but someone else's likes and dislikes are not your concern, specially if it's something that won't directly affect your life.
they won't be your boyfriend/girlfriend. too bad, they missed out. But you don't get a say in how someone feels or equate your own feelings onto them. I'm sure there have been people attracted to you that you turned down because you didn't feel the same. think about why you didn't accept them, and realize it's arbitrary reasons.
you don't like me therefore you are racist? what? no.
and that's coming from someone who also doesn't see color in love, but that's because my interests are more physical shape.
if i choose to not go out with an overweight person, that's not being discriminatory against overweight people.
if you are straight and a homosexual person comes up to you, whom you recognize is attractive, and asks you out and you decline, that doesn't make you a homophobe. it's just not your interest.
Not an accurate comparison.
You are comparing singular traits to entire races of people that are comprised of dozens (hundreds) of physical traits.
Kadayi
Banned
Because frankly it's hard to accurately gauge as a factor in terms of import, because it can't be separated.
I'm not in haste to do anything. I just don't subscribe to the idea that skin tone is an over riding factor versus others that impact our personal take on what we as individuals find attractive.
Where exactly have I referred to exclusive features regarding race? There is no commonality of features. There is a commonality in terms of how we as a species determine attractiveness with regard to the arrangement of features and a preference for symmetry, but there is no universal body ideal that fits all.
RockTurtle
Member
who says you have to stick to only one preference of traits?
i like long straight hair, small nose, full lips. etc etc. that was just an example.
I completely agree that it's very difficult to separate, but I don't think I would therefore conclude it doesn't exist or isn't all that important simply because it's difficult to measure.
As another example, consider racism in America. It's extremely difficult to measure at this point in the US, because so few people are conscious racists. A few are, but even amongst those who are, even fewer are willing to admit it out loud. Thus, measuring what is in most cases a deeply subconscious phenomenon is nearly impossible, if we try to observe the effect directly. This does not mean the effect doesn't exist, or that it isn't hugely significant, just that it's really hard to measure.
So too are subconscious racial preferences in beauty. Yes, it's difficult to measure; that does not necessarily imply that therefore the effect is minimal or insignificant.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Do... do we have a lot of threads like this?
Kadayi
Banned
I'm not saying it doesn't exist Opiate. I'm merely highlighting the problem of accurately gauging the impact and the potential there in for overplaying it Versus more quantifiable factors. Further studies need to be undertaken that are more extensive in terms of weeding out mitigating factors. How and where to begin is the problem.
Phoenix
Member
I consider it a cultural exploration. How can you truly know a culture until you've had sex with a bunch of its women.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I imagine everyone has aesthetic preferences. I don't see why this would be something to be ashamed of unless you made pre-judgements of the kind of person they are because of it.
I'm not sure what you're talking about when you refer to "your example"; I had several examples and only one - the doll experiments - had color as the only variable. I think that implicit attitudes about stereotypical African American features are absolutely part of the picture when we're talking about implicit racial attitudes, and I think this is particularly important when we're talking about attractiveness. When someone says, "I don't find black women attractive," I suspect that they're not thinking of a particular black woman; I think they're thinking of a hypothetical black woman with particular stereotypical black facial features that he finds unattractive.
In any case, when it comes to racial stereotypes, form does also make a difference:
A 2002 study found that individuals with more Afrocentric features were judged by college undergraduates to have stereotypical African American traits; a 2005 study found that observers believed that individuals with more Afrocentric features were more likely than others to behave aggressively. A 2004 study had 182 police officers examine photographs of male students and employees. Half the participants were shown white faces and the other half were shown black faces. The officers were split into thirds: One third judged the stereotypicality of the person's face; how stereotypical the face was of people of that person's race. The second third, told that some of the faces might be criminals, was asked to indicate whether a person looked criminal. The last third was asked to rate attractiveness on a scale. Each officer only did one of the measures. More black faces than white faces were believed to appear criminal. Black faces who were rated abou the median for stereotypical black features were significantly more likely to be judged criminal than black faces that were rated below the median. The study authors concluded that the police officers thought black faces looked more criminal, and "the more black, the more criminal."
There have also been several studies which have demonstrated that individuals with more stereotypical black features are punished more severely after controlling for race and criminal history. This is even true within races; whites with more stereotypical features associated with black people received longer sentences than other white people. This has been shown both in artificial laboratory or experimental settings, as well as by analysis of inmate records.
And yes, color also makes a difference: In much the same way that more stereotypical black features is associated with more negative opinions, so too is darker skin.
http://youtu.be/2L0a1JsJrn8
I don't think stating your preference is in any way racist, it's generally outside of your control. People who are offended by it are likely the same type of people who are offended by people being gay, it's not a choice. Unless like, your partner is a white redhead and you tell the media that you have a thing for asian women, I can see how that would be offensive.
tearsofash
Member
I consider it a cultural exploration. How can you truly know a culture until you've had sex with a bunch of its women.
It's research
It's problematic to think of this in terms of race since race doesn't actually exist. For example, Beyonce and Gabourey Sidibe are both considered part of the same race, but most people would probably say they find one more attractive than the other.
What people are attracted to or not attracted to if we're speaking purely in terms of visuals are just general aesthetic preferences, like certain facial features or body types. Race does come into the matter because of the fact that as a social construct it colors our perceptions of individuals, making us often think unconsciously about character traits, whether positively or negatively, that we associate with these individuals that we presume to be there. But it's impossible to actually have an "aesthetic racial preference" in a purely biological sense since race is not real.
What people are attracted to or not attracted to if we're speaking purely in terms of visuals are just general aesthetic preferences, like certain facial features or body types. Race does come into the matter because of the fact that as a social construct it colors our perceptions of individuals, making us often think unconsciously about character traits, whether positively or negatively, that we associate with these individuals that we presume to be there. But it's impossible to actually have an "aesthetic racial preference" in a purely biological sense since race is not real.
HolyBaikal
Banned
Really, I don't find myself really having a racial preferences, or much of one, that I think.
But I am attracted to a lot of physical features which are associated with certain "races" that don't really exist. And some more than others. Which leads me to wondering if I have racial preferences and am being racist. According to what some people are saying, I'm not actually sure, though. As some people would simply say they're only racial stereotypes.
I'm just attracted to cuteness and androgyny in terms of physical appearance more than anything. But it does so happen that a lot of those things are associated with certain "races".
I think that partly these subjects are so difficult because it's so confusing. I wonder sometimes if I have racial preferences and worry that they are racist and unhealthy to have, not because I think I have racial preferences, but because I feel like other people would find the things I find attractive to be culturally racial preferences.
Like, I think that single eyelids attractive. And that is associated with Asian people. Definitely not all Asian people have this, and many black and white people have this. I don't know where this comes from, it could be related to the fact I enjoy a lot of East Asian entertainment. I would blame East Asian media a lot more than American media. I haven't even watched much American entertainment in over 10 years. I watch a few things like My Little Pony, but not much else.
I do worry that it's racist though. But I have a hard time changing things like that about myself. And trying to see it as a flaw in myself and trying to change it both hasn't worked, and has only led me to being depressed. It's good to try to not be racist but I don't think it's worth being miserable about. And I have very bad memories of this subject because of that.
And whether or not they're stereotypes, I think that people would see my attraction to things like single eyelids, flat facial features, round and flat noses, to be racial preferences, and perhaps racist, whether I consider them to be or not.
I happen to just be attracted to cute faces. But a lot of those features happen to be associated with certain races and are considered a racial preference I think, whether or not they are stereotypes and regardless of the fact that race isn't really real. I like round faces, flat facial features, round, flat noses, and single eyelids. And those are all associated with certain races.
In any case, I'm just attracted to cute faces and androgynous bodies. And I just want to do that without being racist.
By the way, I really don't like it when people stereotype East Asian women as being flat chested or not curvaceous, and black women as curvaceous. I think it's completely a stereotype and not true. And not healthy.
But I am attracted to a lot of physical features which are associated with certain "races" that don't really exist. And some more than others. Which leads me to wondering if I have racial preferences and am being racist. According to what some people are saying, I'm not actually sure, though. As some people would simply say they're only racial stereotypes.
I'm just attracted to cuteness and androgyny in terms of physical appearance more than anything. But it does so happen that a lot of those things are associated with certain "races".
I think that partly these subjects are so difficult because it's so confusing. I wonder sometimes if I have racial preferences and worry that they are racist and unhealthy to have, not because I think I have racial preferences, but because I feel like other people would find the things I find attractive to be culturally racial preferences.
Like, I think that single eyelids attractive. And that is associated with Asian people. Definitely not all Asian people have this, and many black and white people have this. I don't know where this comes from, it could be related to the fact I enjoy a lot of East Asian entertainment. I would blame East Asian media a lot more than American media. I haven't even watched much American entertainment in over 10 years. I watch a few things like My Little Pony, but not much else.
I do worry that it's racist though. But I have a hard time changing things like that about myself. And trying to see it as a flaw in myself and trying to change it both hasn't worked, and has only led me to being depressed. It's good to try to not be racist but I don't think it's worth being miserable about. And I have very bad memories of this subject because of that.
And whether or not they're stereotypes, I think that people would see my attraction to things like single eyelids, flat facial features, round and flat noses, to be racial preferences, and perhaps racist, whether I consider them to be or not.
I happen to just be attracted to cute faces. But a lot of those features happen to be associated with certain races and are considered a racial preference I think, whether or not they are stereotypes and regardless of the fact that race isn't really real. I like round faces, flat facial features, round, flat noses, and single eyelids. And those are all associated with certain races.
In any case, I'm just attracted to cute faces and androgynous bodies. And I just want to do that without being racist.
By the way, I really don't like it when people stereotype East Asian women as being flat chested or not curvaceous, and black women as curvaceous. I think it's completely a stereotype and not true. And not healthy.
mullet2000
Member
Yeah, I know just as many super curvy Asians as I do "flat" Asians.
Now, that said, I think I get where that mentality comes from. I think a lot comes from Asian country's celebrities (especially KPOP) VERY much fitting into that stereotype. Very very thin, usually (but not always) not all that curvy, etc. Not to mention the entire innocence angle that it pushes so hard, but that's a whooooooole other topic. I mean, my girlfriend is Chinese and she's told me a whole bunch of shit about her mom, aunts, grandmother etc pointing out that she's "fat" because she doesn't have a flat butt/breasts while she's 5"8 and only a 130 LBs. There's a lot of pressures there to look like that.
In short the famous/celeb Asians that Asian countries push don't help that stereotype, and I'd definitely say it's less diverse it terms of body types than US, Canada, or many other countries (not that those are anywhere near perfect)
HolyBaikal
Banned
Really? To me it seems like a lot of Japanese and South Korean entertainment push an unrealistically curvy image on women.
I don't like the idea of blaming East Asian media for stereotypes. It's their entertainment and it is what they want to see. It's not their responsibility to dispel the stereotypes that foreigners have.
I really don't like it when people say negative things about Korean and Japanese entertainment that they're reinforcing stereotypes. To me it just seems like an intolerance for the entertainment and media of another culture. Isn't that also racist or something similar to racism like cultural imperialism itself?
It probably doesn't help much that I enjoy a lot of Korean and Japanese pop culture more than a lot of the pop culture from my own country. As someone who appreciates it, it seems like a lot of people are intolerant.
By the way, if I do have any problematic "racial preferences". Perhaps they come from the fact that I've been more familiar with Japanese and Korean media for the past 10 years or so. I don't know much about American entertainment at all. Perhaps if I've developed any racist feelings in what I'm attracted to, it's more because I've internalized standards of beauty popular and present in Japanese and Korean media, rather than stereotypes of Asian women as submissive in American media.
I don't usually say that because I don't want more people making fun of me and being mean to me because of my tag. But it's true.
Though I do wonder if what is considered more the problem, finding certain traits associated or stereotyped with certain races attractive, like single eyelids? Or the use of words like "Asian" to describe attraction to facial features like this?
Because if the problem is primarily the stereotypes, and the use of words like "Asian" or "black" or "white" to describe them. Then perhaps self described people who have these 'preferences' would be better off just saying that they like the physical features they find attractive and not attributing it to any race.
Somehow I get the feeling that most people wouldn't take "I don't have an racial fetish or racial preference, I just happen to be more attracted to single eyelids, flat noses, round faces, and flat faces" as an excuse.
I don't like the idea of blaming East Asian media for stereotypes. It's their entertainment and it is what they want to see. It's not their responsibility to dispel the stereotypes that foreigners have.
I really don't like it when people say negative things about Korean and Japanese entertainment that they're reinforcing stereotypes. To me it just seems like an intolerance for the entertainment and media of another culture. Isn't that also racist or something similar to racism like cultural imperialism itself?
It probably doesn't help much that I enjoy a lot of Korean and Japanese pop culture more than a lot of the pop culture from my own country. As someone who appreciates it, it seems like a lot of people are intolerant.
By the way, if I do have any problematic "racial preferences". Perhaps they come from the fact that I've been more familiar with Japanese and Korean media for the past 10 years or so. I don't know much about American entertainment at all. Perhaps if I've developed any racist feelings in what I'm attracted to, it's more because I've internalized standards of beauty popular and present in Japanese and Korean media, rather than stereotypes of Asian women as submissive in American media.
I don't usually say that because I don't want more people making fun of me and being mean to me because of my tag. But it's true.
Though I do wonder if what is considered more the problem, finding certain traits associated or stereotyped with certain races attractive, like single eyelids? Or the use of words like "Asian" to describe attraction to facial features like this?
Because if the problem is primarily the stereotypes, and the use of words like "Asian" or "black" or "white" to describe them. Then perhaps self described people who have these 'preferences' would be better off just saying that they like the physical features they find attractive and not attributing it to any race.
Somehow I get the feeling that most people wouldn't take "I don't have an racial fetish or racial preference, I just happen to be more attracted to single eyelids, flat noses, round faces, and flat faces" as an excuse.
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