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Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. |OT| Tahiti is a Magical Place (to...Hey guys, I found it!)

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HP_Wuvcraft said:
And in every interview, they have not given a good reason why they had to dumb down the content of the episodes, just that they did.
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What do you mean by dumb down? If you're referring to the elements of the show that were a bit hokey/family friendly that's been explained by the wide net they're trying to cast in terms of demographics. They want the entire family to be able to tune in and watch.. something that I wouldn't say is as easily done with content like what's been seen in the last couple of episode or in TWS.
 
At this point I kinda have the impression that the creative team for the show was so focused on the Big Idea of interplay with the movies - starting with TWS - that they didn't look at the show critically enough.

They essentially were lulled by their own gimmick and assumed the show would go over well purely because it had "Marvel Cinematic Universe" slapped on the cover. I think this is a real problem because right now, the show is the weakest link in the MCU chain. Every MCU film is at least "good". They set a standard for quality. But AoS is a troubled project that only ever gets good when it's directly riding the coattails of a film with a tie-in.

It's not good advertising for the quality of the brand, so to speak. Season 2, if it comes, needs a wholesale leap in quality, especially if the Netflix shows end up being pretty good.
 
Kai Dracon said:
At this point I kinda have the impression that the creative team for the show was so focused on the Big Idea of interplay with the movies - starting with TWS - that they didn't look at the show critically enough.

They essentially were lulled by their own gimmick and assumed the show would go over well purely because it had "Marvel Cinematic Universe" slapped on the cover. I think this is a real problem because right now, the show is the weakest link in the MCU chain. Every MCU film is at least "good". They set a standard for quality. But AoS is a troubled project that only ever gets good when it's directly riding the coattails of a film with a tie-in.

It's not good advertising for the quality of the brand, so to speak. Season 2, if it comes, needs a wholesale leap in quality, especially if the Netflix shows end up being pretty good.
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I think Season 2 will work out better cause it won't be beholden to any film. Avengers 2 will come out in May, right? When the season is wrapping up. Otherwise, there's no tie-in. Means that they're free to deal with the Hydra threat however they want, while perhaps giving hints to Ultron in the background, and then end it as Avengers 2 begins.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I think Season 2 will work out better cause it won't be beholden to any film. Avengers 2 will come out in May, right? When the season is wrapping up. Otherwise, there's no tie-in. Means that they're free to deal with the Hydra threat however they want, while perhaps giving hints to Ultron in the background, and then end it as Avengers 2 begins.
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I always said Season 2 would take a massive shit on Season 1, just like Arrow.

People called me crazy for my optimism.
 
Kai Dracon said:
At this point I kinda have the impression that the creative team for the show was so focused on the Big Idea of interplay with the movies - starting with TWS - that they didn't look at the show critically enough.

They essentially were lulled by their own gimmick and assumed the show would go over well purely because it had "Marvel Cinematic Universe" slapped on the cover. I think this is a real problem because right now, the show is the weakest link in the MCU chain. Every MCU film is at least "good". They set a standard for quality. But AoS is a troubled project that only ever gets good when it's directly riding the coattails of a film with a tie-in.

It's not good advertising for the quality of the brand, so to speak. Season 2, if it comes, needs a wholesale leap in quality, especially if the Netflix shows end up being pretty good.
Click to expand...

I've had similar thoughts early on. The whole thing seemed rushed that I seriously questioned if they gave much thought to fleshing what they could out of the universe. The early episodes seemed like they were writing the show bible as they shot it. They also seemed like they took for granted that they were a Marvel show. Loeb mentioned how the first half was a slow burn, but it was languid.

NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I think Season 2 will work out better cause it won't be beholden to any film. Avengers 2 will come out in May, right? When the season is wrapping up. Otherwise, there's no tie-in. Means that they're free to deal with the Hydra threat however they want, while perhaps giving hints to Ultron in the background, and then end it as Avengers 2 begins.
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I don't think TWS was such a big burden as some people make it out to be. If anything it gave the show a shot in the arm because this massive situation was forced on the writers. I think the Clairvoyant idea was good... they just either never teased it or incessantly teased it to ad nauseum. They needed to space that out and execute better.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I think Season 2 will work out better cause it won't be beholden to any film. Avengers 2 will come out in May, right? When the season is wrapping up. Otherwise, there's no tie-in. Means that they're free to deal with the Hydra threat however they want, while perhaps giving hints to Ultron in the background, and then end it as Avengers 2 begins.
Click to expand...

The flip side of that

Is season 2 could be spent chasing a tail they can never catch due to it being resolved in Age of Ultron
 
TacticalFox88 said:
I always said Season 2 would take a massive shit on Season 1, just like Arrow.

People called me crazy for my optimism.
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I've been optimistic the whole season. It's taken a while, but we're heading in the right direction. If they can keep up this quality to the end of the season, I'll be amped for Season 2.

fallengorn said:
I've had similar thoughts early on. The whole thing seemed rushed that I seriously questioned if they gave much thought to fleshing what they could out of the universe. The early episodes seemed like they were writing the show bible as they shot it. They also seemed like they took for granted that they were a Marvel show. Loeb mentioned how the first half was a slow burn, but it was languid.
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They should ditch Loeb and find someone who understands espionage and adventure shows.

I know Loeb isn't doing the showrunning. Just ditch him.

I hope with the world established, enough mystery established, and a clear villain and goal established, the AOS guys can get their shit together and deliver on the potential. Last night's episode is a great step forward.

Penguin said:
The flip side of that

Is season 2 could be spent chasing a tail they can never catch due to it being resolved in Age of Ultron
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God, I hope not. I don't think Hydra will be resolved in Avengers 2... but perhaps the next Captain America film. Or, Hydra is simply the overarching threat that will be AOS' ultimate villain. If anything, I think Hydra will be a very small part of Avengers 2, in the beginning, but once Ultron comes into focus, they'll fade away.
 
Honestly if they are smart and accept the fact the show will always just have its dedicated marvelites as a viewership they could use the show as a universe establishing thing connecting from movie to movie.

Why not have season 2 focus on the behind the scenes stuff that eventually creates Ultron etc. It can be done in a way that doesn't effect the movie being standalone and just be extra fun for dedicated fans
 
Well, they shouldn't be that reliant on the movies, even though that is the gimmick. They need their own threat. Yes, ultimately it's Hydra, but there's tons of other things the writers can choose from that could interweave with Hydra.
 
fallengorn said:
Well, they shouldn't be that reliant on the movies, even though that is the gimmick. They need their own threat. Yes, ultimately it's Hydra, but there's tons of other things the writers can choose from that could interweave with Hydra.
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Like my transhumanist maniacal serial killer who believes he is ascending past humanity by upgrading himself with alien and Stark tech?
 
antonz said:
Honestly if they are smart and accept the fact the show will always just have its dedicated marvelites as a viewership they could use the show as a universe establishing thing connecting from movie to movie.

Why not have season 2 focus on the behind the scenes stuff that eventually creates Ultron etc. It can be done in a way that doesn't effect the movie being standalone and just be extra fun for dedicated fans
Click to expand...

Thats what they are going to do but execution wise I doubt they can pull it off. They may just do another 16 episodes of dull filler before they get to it.
 
Ripclawe said:
Thats what they are going to do but execution wise I doubt they can pull it off. They may just do another 16 episodes of dull filler before they get to it.
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It might be best if they split the season into two or three arcs. Build up a dangerous villain or intriguing mystery without losing tension or making heroes or villains appear ineffectual or boring.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
It might be best if they split the season into two or three arcs. Build up a dangerous villain or intriguing mystery without losing tension or making heroes or villains appear ineffectual or boring.
Click to expand...

They could have done it this season with one villain leading to another bigger to another even bigger before revealing Hydra and well... we got what we got.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Like my transhumanist maniacal serial killer who believes he is ascending past humanity by upgrading himself with alien and Stark tech?
Click to expand...
Sure, why not.

Ripclawe said:
Thats what they are going to do but execution wise I doubt they can pull it off. They may just do another 16 episodes of dull filler before they get to it.
Click to expand...
I think it was Jed who said in an interview he looks at the show as the "main thing" and the movies as the "webisodes" between it. (This is where you do a huge eye roll.)

If they did some decent world building I think everyone would be happy.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Looooooooooooooool what?
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Found it:

Will whatever connection you have to the new Captain America movie help illustrate how important it is to watch this series as it is to watch the movies?

Whedon: We hope that it's rewarding to watch our series on its own. We don't want to make it just like a webisode that's filling in the gap between the films. We think of the movies as webisodes for us.
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I understand what he wants to say but he should've worded it better. (Which happens to be the problem with most of the season.)
 
I've always held out that a season 2 would more than likely be considerably improved because this whole thing was adjusting all the way through to being on a broadcast network and working around an existing, breathing universe.

there's so much bullshit to go through on a network nowadays (notes, meddling,) that rarely do dramas come out of them unscathed. When you add in a messy production and working around built-in constraints, it explains a lot.

Not that it excuses bad writing and whatnot, but I'm eager to see what a season 2 looks like with feedback and I'm assuming an easier trajectory.
 
Jest Chillin said:
What do you mean by dumb down? If you're referring to the elements of the show that were a bit hokey/family friendly that's been explained by the wide net they're trying to cast in terms of demographics. They want the entire family to be able to tune in and watch.. something that I wouldn't say is as easily done with content like what's been seen in the last couple of episode or in TWS.
Click to expand...

Dumbed Down as in "we can't really do whatever we want guys, because TWS".

Using TWS as an excuse as to why the writing is sloppy is not an excuse.
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Dumbed Down as in "we can't really do whatever we want guys, because TWS".

Using TWS as an excuse as to why the writing is sloppy is not an excuse.
Click to expand...

That's.. not what they said. They said that everything was building to this reveal. What they did say about witholding was that TWS was the reason they went with things like The Clairvoyant and Centipede.
 
anaron said:
I've always held out that a season 2 would more than likely be considerably improved because this whole thing was adjusting all the way through to being on a broadcast network and working around an existing, breathing universe.

there's so much bullshit to go through on a network nowadays (notes, meddling,) that rarely do dramas come out of them unscathed. When you add in a messy production and working around built-in constraints, it explains a lot.

Not that it excuses bad writing and whatnot, but I'm eager to see what a season 2 looks like with feedback and I'm assuming an easier trajectory.
Click to expand...

Early on it seemed like ABC was hoping they would NCIS-level numbers by trying to make the show basically Marvel-NCIS. With the numbers not supporting that the second half of the season feels more like ABC just threw their hands up and said "whatever, just make what you want".

If ABC treats this show going forward that like NBC treats Parks & Rec and Community ("you're never going to be a big so just do your thing") then I wouldn't be surprised to see more improvements in S2.

But still...Loeb....
 
I just hope they go and take a good hard look at the characters. I can forgive a lot of the more boring storylines if the characters were interesting, but most of them are not very interesting.

The Hydra twist for Ward is great, except that I'm cringing at the inevitable revelation that he's actually a double agent and is still good and all that.

Coulson survives almost solely on Clark Gregg's charisma. They've been doing a better job the last few episodes, but they need to give the guy meatier material.

Skye remains annoying to me. It's unfortunate that the big series mythology partially revolves around her, because I just don't really care about her. At all.

And the attempts to make May cold and distant have just made her boring. Even the revelation that she's been spying on Coulson for Fury didn't really make her that interesting.

Fitz and Simmons are the only characters that I think they've really done justice to.

I'm hoping that in between the seasons they do some rethinking of the cast. I think it would be worthwhile to cut one or two of the cast and maybe try to bring in somebody new that can have more of a fresh start.
 
Patryn said:
I just hope they go and take a good hard look at the characters. I can forgive a lot of the more boring storylines if the characters were interesting, but most of them are not very interesting.

The Hydra twist for Ward is great, except that I'm cringing at the inevitable revelation that he's actually a double agent and is still good and all that.

Coulson survives almost solely on Clark Gregg's charisma. They've been doing a better job the last few episodes, but they need to give the guy meatier material.

Skye remains annoying to me. It's unfortunate that the big series mythology partially revolves around her, because I just don't really care about her. At all.

And the attempts to make May cold and distant have just made her boring. Even the revelation that she's been spying on Coulson for Fury didn't really make her that interesting.

Fitz and Simmons are the only characters that I think they've really done justice to.

I'm hoping that in between the seasons they do some rethinking of the cast. I think it would be worthwhile to cut one or two of the cast and maybe try to bring in somebody new that can have more of a fresh start.
Click to expand...

Every episode I just continue to hope that they kill skye off. :(
 
Patryn said:
I just hope they go and take a good hard look at the characters. I can forgive a lot of the more boring storylines if the characters were interesting, but most of them are not very interesting.

The Hydra twist for Ward is great, except that I'm cringing at the inevitable revelation that he's actually a double agent and is still good and all that.

Coulson survives almost solely on Clark Gregg's charisma. They've been doing a better job the last few episodes, but they need to give the guy meatier material.

Skye remains annoying to me. It's unfortunate that the big series mythology partially revolves around her, because I just don't really care about her. At all.

And the attempts to make May cold and distant have just made her boring. Even the revelation that she's been spying on Coulson for Fury didn't really make her that interesting.

Fitz and Simmons are the only characters that I think they've really done justice to.

I'm hoping that in between the seasons they do some rethinking of the cast. I think it would be worthwhile to cut one or two of the cast and maybe try to bring in somebody new that can have more of a fresh start.
Click to expand...
I feel the same. Which is a shame, cause Coulson is the reason I wanted to watch the show.
Hopefully the MayxCoulson relationship will prove to be even more interesting as of recent events.
 
CrichtonKicks said:
If ABC treats this show going forward that like NBC treats Parks & Rec and Community ("you're never going to be a big so just do your thing") then I wouldn't be surprised to see more improvements in S2.
Click to expand...

I doubt ABC can or would do this with a big budget drama. It's much easier to do that with a relatively cheap half hour comedy like P&R or Community.
 
They really should have tried to center the show around the movies even more than they did.

Thor 2 spoilers:

They should dropped hints of extra-dimensional instability/magic/stuff in the episode airing prior the the launch of the film. Then the post film would relate more strongly to what actually happened, like have the gang hunt down some "aftershock" in the barrier seperating earth from other realms. Then tie that to that "ghost"-episode, by having that dude be (explicitly so) trapped in a hell dimension as a result of the events in THor 2.


Instead we got a stupid staff.
 
Though I'm a bit late with this...
Jonogunn said:
I like Coulson and Paxton. Everyone else on the show can die and I wouldn't care.

I didn't like Hand either. I know they stayed true to the comics and gave her the red died hair but really...why would a 45+ year old women who is a big figurehead on a secret government organization have red streaks in her hair? I can't look at her as a respectable professional with that going on. Just one thing I didn't feel translate well to live-action.

Not a huge deal just a minor gripe.
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I didn't mind Hand, but this detail crossed my mind as well as something that could be argued as out of place.
 
Every interview so far seems to be very explicit in saying that Ward is Hydra. Not that it's a ruse to infiltrate...

I guess they could be lying?
 
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