Vyse The Legend
Member
They were excellent until CoD4, then it felt like they were playing catch up. It really shows in Reach.
Bungie's multiplayer systems destroy pretty much every other developer
- Thread starter mcfrank
- Start date
MarauderShields
Member
I think that was just in Halo 3 but yeah that was bad.
rakkadakka
Member
Maybe I wasn't used to fast matchmaking.. but I never had issues getting matches on Halo 3 ranked.
Although I never ran with more than 1 or 2 friends so maybe it was a full party problem.
Best matchmaking in an FPS I've ever encountered.
Crazy that no other developers devotes as much energy to matchmaking or at least haven't been able to get it as right.
TheSinkingKnight
Member
That was actually awesome in my eyes. Now if you buy the DLC in Halo, you're confined to a few playlists that are dead.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
I'd have to disagree with this. In my opinion, Reach removed much of the things that made Halo 3 so good.
-Armor Lock was was a boring and frustrating mechanic. While I don't think it was imbalanced such as some people claimed, I thought it was bad game design.
-The maps where not as good as in Halo 3, ranging from alright (Sword Base, Countdown, Powerhouse) to poor (Zealot, Hemorrhage, The Cage).
-Movement was more sluggish (less movespeed, jump height, etc.).
-Reach removed the skill-based 1-50 ranked matchmaking system from Halo 3 and replaced it with an experience-based system that simply measured total playtime, not skill.
-The Jetpack, Active Camo, bloom and no shield bleedthrough for melee were, in my opinion, also poorly considered additions.
+Forge World was a massive and ambitious improvement over the forge maps in Halo 3.
+The addition of the DMR and buff to the Pistol shifted the focus more towards shield removal+headshots.
Matches usually aren't as fun when it's a complete blowout. I'd rather wait an extra minute.
MarauderShields
Member
Well that is just as bad but you can't punish people who don't buy your DLC.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Bungie ruined online multiplayer with Halo 2 and further with Halo 3 (and that's where I stopped). Matchmaking without filters is horrible.
Bungie can only be counted on to make 3 maps I like and even less gameplay variants, so why must I suffer through all the other maps and variants repeatedly? Cut that crap out, I just want to go to Valhalla in Team BR with no power weapons (for example). I should be able to find that game via the matchmaking system or otherwise and not suffer through another stupid dual wield match on Snowbound.
Bungie can only be counted on to make 3 maps I like and even less gameplay variants, so why must I suffer through all the other maps and variants repeatedly? Cut that crap out, I just want to go to Valhalla in Team BR with no power weapons (for example). I should be able to find that game via the matchmaking system or otherwise and not suffer through another stupid dual wield match on Snowbound.
OP, I ignored Halo 1-2 back in the days, but Halo 3 was a goddamn miracle, even to my CS-addict mind.
The world took a wrong turn when the COD-model won, not H3's. I want to live in that other reality, where H3 is 25+ million sold, and COD remains second tier*
*And please understand, I am not trying to attack COD's quality or its goals, I just do not agree with the precedences and trends it set with its insane success.
The world took a wrong turn when the COD-model won, not H3's. I want to live in that other reality, where H3 is 25+ million sold, and COD remains second tier*
*And please understand, I am not trying to attack COD's quality or its goals, I just do not agree with the precedences and trends it set with its insane success.
I completely disagree. It took them until Halo 3 to get online co-op. Even then it was garbage! You could only play with your friends. Same shit with firefight in ODST.
343 industries continues the tradition of bull shit buy only allowing you to do online matching in the current episode of Spartan OPs!!!!
I love But this and thier checkpoint system pisses me off to know end! *grumble*
343 industries continues the tradition of bull shit buy only allowing you to do online matching in the current episode of Spartan OPs!!!!
I love But this and thier checkpoint system pisses me off to know end! *grumble*
JimboJones
Member
It basically punishs early adopters by making their game worse unless you pay up to unlock features that where availiable when you bought the game.
Probably wouldn't have bothered me as much if Live was free but it wasn't so it felt like an added subscription charge at the time.
Byakuya769
Member
I'll take waiting in a lobby, drinking my beer and eventually getting dropped into a competitive match over immediately dropping into a match of unpaid "professional" players any day of the week. The first eventually leads to fun, the latter begins and ends in frustration.
Night Hunter
Banned
Wait, that was a thing? Even the most bone headed people had to recognize that Bungie >>> ALL
That would make too much sense tho
The reason it was "slow" was because most of the time it was actually trying to match based on skill making for a vastly superior experience compared to games today. Look at the great MM systems we have in games like CoD, Titanfall you are just thrown into a game with literally anyone. The experience is completely ruined when you're steamrolling people who can barely navigate a 3D plane, because the game matches players that have no reason to ever be in the same match together.
Everything bolded I agree with. I actually prefer the leveling system in Reach. Jetpack is awesome, and Active Camo was more or less the same as the pickup in previous titles.
Thank god for classic playlists though.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
It's pretty sad how Halo 2 is still the pinnacle of online console gaming. Even Bungie couldn't top Halo 2 with later entries, but i really hope that Destiny is the one game series to really push console online gaming forward.
Nemesis121
Member
The games Bungie made were awesome but Matchmaking is fucking trash, I was on Xbox Live day one i used to live on Return to Castle Wolfenstien it had a server list, but when matching making came to Xbox live i left console gaming in 2004.. server list FTW.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Bungie and Blizzard were way ahead of the curve.
While deeply enjoyed my 200 hours playing Reach, I have to say Halo 3 is more of the definitive Halo MO experience. There are some minor and so what major problems in Reach that make it a lesser Halo game, IMO. The introduction of bloom and armor lock were some gripes I had with the game when I played it. Still, brilliant game. It captured my attention for much longer than Halo 4 and most other games did (unfortunately
).civilstrife
Member
Anyone who has ever played an online game on PC knows this is false.
If there's only one map I like, then I should be allowed to play it and it alone.
If there's only one map I like, then I should be allowed to play it and it alone.
I have played PC games for years and I still prefer match making to server browsing.
Reach multiplayer introduced several thing within the sandbox that had negative impacts on the gameplay itself. Randomness in the form of bloom, AA such as the aforementioned armor lock functioned as a get out of jail free card. Or jet pack defeating any form of map based cover.I agree. Loved me some Reach multi. Never understood the hate. I miss armour lock!
I think their skill matching algorithm was at its peak in H2 and then regressed. But in general, yeah, hardly any games come close to their lobby/matchmaking system. I find it hard to play other MP games for very long because their systems are just garbage in comparison. For Destiny, I'm far far far more worried about the gameplay, since Bungie hasn't impressed in that department in a loooong time.
Confidence Man
Member
The whole matchmaking system is garbage. I hated being dumped into maps and gamemodes I had no interest in playing, and then penalized as a quitter if I left. Halo multiplayer is like being set up on a playdate and if you don't feel like doing what the parents have planned you go sit in the corner.
That's exactly the big complaint, though: in Reach, it's an AA instead of a pickup.
(Also, the modified radar behaviour does make the core mechanic somewhat different.)
They innovated with the matchmaking in Halo 2 but never really iterated on the system in any meaningful way. They never introduced a way to play custom games/forge with randoms. True skill was implemented into all their playlists in 3/Reach and made the games a lot less fun the more matched you played. Their DLC implementation was garbage and if you bought the packs you were relegated to a tiny playlist with maybe 500 players on a good day.
I loved what they did with Halo 2, but they haven't really done anything to build on that system. I still prefer what TF2 though: regular server browser combined with a quickmatch option.
I loved what they did with Halo 2, but they haven't really done anything to build on that system. I still prefer what TF2 though: regular server browser combined with a quickmatch option.
CountAntonius
Member
This. How this isn't the norm by now I'll never know.
Nah, disagree. They can't touch Valve until they have dedicated servers. CS:GO manages to have excellent matchmaking with a competitive community while still having customizable private servers that support whatever you want them to.
10 years later I still have TF2 servers that I return to because I know the people that frequent them. Bungie can't touch that.
10 years later I still have TF2 servers that I return to because I know the people that frequent them. Bungie can't touch that.
HiredN00bs
Banned
Get back to us after 10 AM PDT Monday.
Interesting example. I never successfully matched against human opponents along with a group of friends in CS:GO. And I tried more than a few times.
My problem with server browsers is the hours and hours you have to go through of shitty servers with stupid custom rules before you find one you like. That may not be the case in CS:GO as I have not played it, but back in the BF 1942 days it drove me bonkers.
Couldn't you just use a filtered search to find servers with normal rules though?
HiredN00bs
Banned
Another thing to remember is that Halo 3 and Reach had a ridiculous amount of customization options. A completely open server list system would have been chaos.
What the heck are normal rules? LOL
You mean default gametypes? No one played default gametypes. They weren't even in matchmaking.
I mean, when you have 100 different variables that can be combined to make millions of gametypes...
Wait, I'm talking about default gameplay settings, or is he talking about "rules" that server admins make up like "no shotguns"? If the latter is what he's talking about then nevermind, his point stands.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Halo 3 still is the best MP game in consoles i ever played. I would glady buy a PC version.
Nemesis121
Member
I don't don't know a single PC gamer that doesn't use the filter, CS has tons of shit servers, I filter out the garbage and I am gaming in 30secs..
HiredN00bs
Banned
You need to understand that Halo 3 introduced an extremely robust gametype editor. If I had it handy, I would give you an actual count of the number of discrete settings. It was't just (Default/Rifles/Explosives/etc.) if that's what you're thinking. Additionally, Forge allowed infinite map customizations (since you could move any weapon, equipment, object, etc. to any coordinate position on the map).
So, you could filter for Slayer on Valhalla, only to find that the host has rearranged the weapons on the map, and put his own secret stash somewhere. Then when he blows you and your crappy spawning weapon sky-high, his leader ability kicks in and he is now invulnerable.
Sure, you could search for default gametypes, but then you're essentially matchmaking, only without the benefit of skill matching. Customization is a double-edged sword without a somewhat guided experience.
Walpurgisnacht
Banned
Agreed. Whatever it takes. If Gran Turismo 5 can pull it off, so can they. We need this.
Twilight Gap
Member
Their Multiplayer systems and UI was never in question as far as Destiny is concerned. Their stat systems were robust and easy to navigate, and Reach's UI is still the best UI I've seen in a game. The experience they've racked up will help make Destiny a technical power house and beautiful game at the very least.
It's actually insane when you look at their legacy; most shooters don't measure up to standard featuresets and the most efficient UI Bungie put forth several games ago. Likewise, it's crazy how much of the stuff in Halo 3 still isn't standardized in shooters. Just simple things like stat tracking still gets shit on by Halo 2 in most games.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Are they excellent? Yes. Do they "destroy!!!!"? No. Once again, they are excellent, but plenty of other developers also have excellent MP systems, part of that is because of the influence of games like Halo 2.
Going to have to disagree here. The ranking system in Reach was horrible just for the fact it wasn't skilled based anymore and you didn't get knocked back in rank if you consistently did bad. I remember in the Halo 3 days if you saw a level 50 you knew that guy was good and you were probably gonna get wrecked but in games like Halo Reach and Halo 4, Rank doesn't hold as much meaning.