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[-Amon-]

Don't see the big deal about 60 fps honestly.

Rivals is one of the first racing games I've really enjoyed in years and it only ran at 30 fps on PS4. Looked and played fine to me, and had a great sense of speed.

In a racing sim it's really important ( when driving with wheels ).

When i used simracing on PC we always tried to obtain 120 fps steady. The difference in imput precisions and driver feel was big, even from 60 fps.

The question is this for me, i don't really know what king of game this is. I've appreciated arcade racers in the past at 30fps no problem.

 

[Remf]

I really love the peeps that say 30fps is "unplayable". Give me a break! I've played countless racing games at 30fps throughout multiple generations and it did not detract from the game and thoroughly enjoyed them.

Now, if the frame rate stutters and such (usually when it drops in the low 20's) then that is a different story, but if it's locked at 30 then I'm cool with it.

 

[Oppo]

Yeah or Wipeout. If they announced a 30fps Wipeout I would be pretty upset. This game isn't even close to the speed of Wipeout of F-Zero

Wipeout is atrocious on Vita because of this.

Thankfully most racing games don't require the pinpoint precision that Wipeout and F-Zero do.

Yeah I can't even play Wipeout on Vita it really highlights how necessary the high FPS is.

A friendly reminder that ALL Wipeout games were historically 30 FPS, with the exception of the last console one, Wipeout HD.

I think Pulse on PSP could do 60 FPS in zone mode, but that's it.

Wipeout was never a bad racing game (well maybe Fusion) and no one was yelling about 60 FPS at the time. Jus how hard it was.

 

[swazzyswess]

Sony and MS set expectations high, so it's not unreasonable to feel annoyed, disappointed, or angry because they're not being met despite the manufactured hype called marketing that they themselves bring to the table.

Sounds like you played the fool for believing the hype.

And yeah, it's unreasonable to be angry about something as minuscule as this. I'd hate to be around you when you actually have real problems to deal with.

 

[Fenderputty]

That's why I'm glad they got this out of the way. I'm tired of the framerate being the main talking point in DriveClub threads.

It's really lame.

The game looks great. Try it for free and see if you're convinced 60fps is necessary for you. If it's not your cup I tea, delete it.

I'm sure I'll enjoy the fuck out of this just like I enjoyed the fuck out of every motor storm game last gen.

 

[-tetsuo-]

30fps is not ideal at all but it is perfectly fine.

 

[88random]

I don't remember 30fps being a problem in PGR or Forza Horizon, I doubt it will be now.

 

[Boombloxer]

The 'lol consoles' argument is just moronic.

Not only will this happen as long as there are fixed architecture systems, it always has happened. It's illogical to act like this is straw that breaks the camel's back type moment, this is just continuing a twenty year trend.

Ridge Racer was 1080p/60 in 2006, so yea, I don't get it.

For Action games, sure. But Racers I'm more open, just isn't a big deal to me.

 

[Canis lupus]

it's not a movement, it's a standard. the importance of framerate directly correlates to how much speed is a factor in your game; and if speed isn't a major factor in your racing game, i'm not sure why anyone would want to play it.

I haven't noticed 60fps being a standard in console arcade racers in a long time. The last ones I played, PGR, NFS and Forza Horizon all ran in 30fps. Forza Horizon was so smooth I forgot in which fps I was playing the game.

I'd definetly take these graphics with locked 30fps than downgraded visuals and game struggling to hit 60fps, DC was obviously not created with 60fps in mind, otherwise they would've made sure it hit that locked until they hit reached a limit in visual fidelity which would take the frames down. I'm glad they didnt cut corners in mid development to get variables frames like an afterthought.

 

[QuantumBro]

My only problem with 30fps is that VR support is very unlikely for Driveclub.

 

[Chinner]

it's not a movement, it's a standard. the importance of framerate directly correlates to how much speed is a factor in your game; and if speed isn't a major factor in your racing game, i'm not sure why anyone would want to play it.

I don't disagree, but three is no genuine debate in these debates anymore, just people regurgitating bullet point drive-by posts to please their respective crowds.

An increased FPS does increase responsiveness and it preferable to 30 FPS. That doesn't make 30fps rubbish either. However, there are other factors that come into play when it comes to responsiveness and generally when it comes to making a good racing games. Not having 60fps doesn't automatically make it junk, and equally being 60fps doesn't make it brilliant. There will be design decisions made behind the frame-rate to make it work as best as intended and those are the decisions that matter.

So yeah, I agree with you. I just think there's a lot of denial and elitism in these threads, and it's kind of boring.

Dude. Chinner. Dude. Chinner.

*urinates on post*

 

[Broadbandito]

Sony and MS set expectations high, so it's not unreasonable to feel annoyed, disappointed, or angry because they're not being met despite the manufactured hype called marketing that they themselves bring to the table. And there was bitching over PGR 4 and Horizon being 30fps, but those games were excused to a degree by the expectations being lowered due to being stuck on old hardware when they released. I find it hard to go back to Horizon, a game just a couple of years old, because of the dramatic framerate difference from Forza 5 or any other 60fps racer.

pgr4 hit a year after the 360 was released... lol

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Sounds like you played the fool for believing the hype.

And yeah, it's unreasonable to be angry about something as minuscule as this. I'd hate to be around you when you actually have real problems to deal with.

Nah. Developers set their priorities. See any dev working on old, weaker hardware that still manages 60fps. And it's clearly not a small thing to many of us who grew up on the 60fps arcade standard and those of us who lower visual complexity settings and resolution to achieve 60fps on PC games. Just because you and others don't care or even understand, doesn't mean others feel the same. Nice job of wasting time with the 'real problems' bullshit comment.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Perfectly fine with me; game looks beautiful. Good job devs.

 

[EatinOlives]

Disappointed.

I'll take FPS over flashy visuals any day of the week. If it's two genres that NEED 60 fps, it's fighting and racing.

 

[qa_engineer]

While its disappointing that current gen hasn't ushered in 1080p 60fps as the standard for console gaming, it's completely understandable given the price point, TDP of these machines. I'm happy with all the bells and whistles at 1080p 30fps.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Disappointed.

I'll take FPS over flashy visuals any day of the week. If it's two genres that NEED 60 fps, it's fighting and racing.

First Person Shooters, aiming/precision!

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Disappointed.

I'll take FPS over flashy visuals any day of the week. If it's two genres that NEED 60 fps, it's fighting and racing.

Why do racing games need the framerate? I've argued the opposite for the genre.

 

[SolidChamp]

Game looks stunning.

We can't have it all, gentlemen.

 

[flyinpiranha]

In a racing sim it's really important ( when driving with wheels ).

When i used simracing on PC we always tried to obtain 120 fps steady. The difference in imput precisions and driver feel was big, even from 60 fps.

The question is this for me, i don't really know what king of game this is. I've appreciated arcade racers in the past at 30fps no problem.

Why would input precision matter whether using a wheel or controller? Aren't they both sending the same commands just through different apparatuses?

EDIT: To be clear, I'm asking why improved fps matters more with a wheel, and not with a controller, since you put "(when driving with wheels)" in there. Not what increased fps in general has an affect on.

 

[whitehawk]

I'd much prefer 60FPS, but then again PGR 3/4 was 30fps and it remains the best racing series from last gen.

 

[EatinOlives]

While its disappointing that current gen hasn't made 1080p 60fps the standard for console gaming, it's completely understandable given the price point, TDP of these machines. I'm happy with all the bells and whistles at 1080p 30fps.

It's not the hardware. You can achieve 60 FPS on any machine at any resolution, but visuals will take a hit.

The devs here made a conscious decision to place graphics in a higher priority. If they went in with the mentality of "60 fps or bust" we would've gotten it, though we may not have had pretty gifs at the end of the day.

 

[Broadbandito]

While its disappointing that current gen hasn't ushered in 1080p 60fps as the standard for console gaming, it's completely understandable given the price point, TDP of these machines. I'm happy with all the bells and whistles at 1080p 30fps.

plus we are still in the first year

 

[styl3s]

I couldn't care less about the whole 30/60 debate.

1080/30 is perfectly fine for me, my problem is that it's coming in October.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

pgr4 hit a year after the 360 was realeased... lol

Two years. PGR 3 was a launch title and seemed to do the motion blur better in 2005 from what I recall. I guess I'll go back and play them both just for a refresher.

 

[Corto]

30fps is not the best for any racer

You're right. It's the best compromise for this game according to its directors vision, though.

 

[Chinner]

plus we are still in the first year

It will always come down to what the developer decides. New technology will never change that, and that's what people forget.

 

[TheCloser]

Can all the 60fps whiners go away now? I mean, nobody is forcing you to buy the game so go buy something else and stop complaining. It's always the same people to. We understand that you'd prefer 60 fps but that was not possible. If you this is a deal breaker for you, that is alright. We understand your frustration and we sympathize with you because you didn't get what you want. Thankfully, there are a lot of other racing games coming out for you to choose from but please allow the rest of us to enjoy our game in peace.

 

[EatinOlives]

Why do racing games need the framerate? I've argued the opposite for the genre.

Fine precision and speed. Small twitches of the control stick (or steering wheel) that move the car slightly in any direction are far more easily perceived. With higher speeds you need the double amount of frames to better see the motion and, in turn, you can more quickly assess your own speed, distance to objects/turns, opponent speeds and trajectories.

You need as much visual information as possible in fighting and racing games, and twice the amount of frames delivered per second very obviously helps in that regard.

 

[qa_engineer]

It's not the hardware. You can achieve 60 FPS on any machine at any resolution, but visuals will take a hit.

The devs here made a conscious decision to place graphics in a higher priority. If they went in with the mentality of "60 fps or bust" we would've gotten it, though we may not have had pretty gifs at the end of the day.

Thats what I meant. If price and tdp wasn't a factor we'd have our ice cream and eat it too; bells and whistles + 60 fps wouldn't be a compromise, developers in the first year of the consoles life, would have to make.

 

[ComputerMKII]

My interest for the game just fell to zero.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Can all the 60fps whiners go away now? I mean, nobody is forcing you to buy the game so go buy something else and stop complaining. It's always the same people to. We understand that you'd prefer 60 fps but that was not possible. If you this is a deal breaker for you, that is alright. We understand your frustration and we sympathize with you because you didn't get what you want. Thankfully, there are a lot of other racing games coming out for you to choose from but please allow the rest of us to enjoy our game in peace.

How about you just deal with it in a thread about framerate? There are other DC threads if you have a real problem with others discussing things and having different opinions than you.

 

[IcyEyes]

Awesome news. Really.


and

Can all the 60fps whiners go away now? I mean, nobody is forcing you to buy the game so go buy something else and stop complaining. It's always the same people to. We understand that you'd prefer 60 fps but that was not possible. If you this is a deal breaker for you, that is alright. We understand your frustration and we sympathize with you because you didn't get what you want. Thankfully, there are a lot of other racing games coming out for you to choose from but please allow the rest of us to enjoy our game in peace.

A quote for you !

 

[Broadbandito]

Two years. PGR 3 was a launch title and seemed to do the motion blur better in 2005 from what I recall. I guess I'll go back and play them both just for a refresher.

you're right, but I don't remember PGR4 being excused for being on a system that was 2 years old. I remember being blown away by that game.

 

[EatinOlives]

Thats what I meant. If price and tdp wasn't a factor we'd have our ice cream and eat it too; bells and whistles + 60 fps wouldn't be a compromise, developers in the first year of the consoles life, would have to make.

Not likely, IMO. They would've then made the graphics even prettier and still tank the fps to 30.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Why people care about wheel support still? It's 30fps, makes using a wheel pointless.

 

[TyrantII]

The difference here is that DriveClub uses closed circuits where the environment looks open world. I've never seen that in a racer before.

I'm actually wondering about that, since it looks like you could gain a ton of preformance from culling Poly's and assets never in your line of sight from the track.

Wonder if that's due to texture streaming or GI needing a whole world.

Some of it is also optical tricks. A 2k texture on a mile away peak is overkill here, where you'll probably scale that peak in a open world game. Same for geometry and most likely resolution of their lighting systems. So its still much more of a feat.

 

[NullPointer]

I don't remember 30fps being a problem in PGR or Forza Horizon, I doubt it will be now.

By the looks of things it'll be drop dead gorgeous.

I do prefer 60fps in all things, but I hold Evolution to their omfg-wow reveal video more than to an abstract figure. If it takes 30fps breathing room to provide all this eye and ear popping glory in insanely detailed environments and conditions than I'm more than fine with it.

Now, if it dips under 30fps I'll be seriously disappointed. But a locked 30fps sounds just fine.

Blow our minds Evo.

 

[AuthenticM]

Does anyone have a link to a high bitrate version of the trailer ? Gamersyde still doesn't have it.

 

[Cave Johnson]

It's really lame.

The game looks great. Try it for free and see if you're convinced 60fps is necessary for you. If it's not your cup I tea, delete it.

I'm sure I'll enjoy the fuck out of this just like I enjoyed the fuck out of every motor storm game last gen.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the motorstorm titles running at 60fps?

EDIT:

And you're in this thread why?...

Trolling is a bannable offense.

Isn't backseat modding a bannable offence as well? Secondly, how is my comment irrelevant or trolling? Is it because I criticised an expected response to situation that may or may not be fulfilled? The topic discusses the topic on frame-rate and I state my reasons why I'm not fond of it. Hell, I'm not even unreasonable, I even explicitly stated that I would rather have "downgraded" graphics to compensate - a point you clearly missed.

30fps is not an excusable reason in this day and age especially when the alternative can be played, tested on hardware that is capable of doing so. This means games running on lower frame-rate is going to be pretty damn obvious to someone accustomed to the alternative and I have decided that frame-rate is a world of difference when it comes to gameplay. I'm not simply satisfied with "good" or "ok", I want the BEST the game could offer me to play - and it ain't graphics.

 

[baconcow]

The experience of PGR4 was quite poor compared to Forza Motorsport 4, which ran at a locked 60 fps.

 

[Business]

I'd have prefered 60fps but only because it would mean PS4 is a beast, I'm sure the game itself will be perfectly fine at 30fps.

 

[ReBurn]

Don't see the big deal about 60 fps honestly.

Rivals is one of the first racing games I've really enjoyed in years and it only ran at 30 fps on PS4. Looked and played fine to me, and had a great sense of speed.

Playing cop is too much fun! If Driveclub is half as fun as Rivals I'll be perfectly happy.

 

[Raven Prime]

He's right. It will have to be a rocksteady framerate though.

 

[viveks86]

The 30 fps vs 60 fps debate has stood the test of time. We will keep arguing for years to come with different games as the backdrop and there will never be a consensus. I shall take no part in it. Instead, I will get some popcorn ready and watch you all have a go at each other.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

you're right, but I don't remember PGR4 being excused for being on a system that was 2 years old. I remember being blown away by that game.

It was tolerated, certainly, and there was always bitching about 30fps, but not nearly so much at that point due to the series having firmly established itself as 30fps racer and even fans stopped hoping for it. The big thing was that it was apparently rushed/unfinished because of Bizarre selling themselves to Activision, which dominated all conversations at the time, IIRC. Like I said, it's not enough to break a game, but it puts a huge damper on what it *could* be knowing what it feels like in other racing games, even PGR1.

 

[djplaeskool]

Interesting response re: Arcade vs Sim

Our ambition was always to transcend “arcade” and “simulation” stereotypes because we want to bring fans of all racing games (and all of their friends) together in DRIVECLUB. The driving model we’ve developed offers the best of both worlds, with handling that offers many layers of depth to allow players of all ability to race together.

If you come from a background of arcade racing or you’re completely new to racing, you’ll find it easy to pick up and you’ll quickly learn that you do need to use the brakes more than you would in most arcade racing games.

If you come from a background of simulation racing or you understand the art of race craft, you’ll be able to pull off advanced driving techniques and use the weight and velocity of the car realitsitically to keep to the racing line and shave milliseconds of of your lap times.

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2014/04/30/driveclub-update-evolution-studios-2/#comment-505255

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Fine precision and speed. Small twitches of the control stick (or steering wheel) that move the car slightly in any direction are far more easily perceived. With higher speeds you need the double amount of frames to better see the motion and, in turn, you can more quickly assess your own speed, distance to objects/turns, opponent speeds and trajectories.

You need as much visual information as possible in fighting and racing games, and twice the amount of frames delivered per second very obviously helps in that regard.

So would draw distances not be more important? There's no value placed on "instantaneous" in an arcade racer (to me anyway). Turns are predictable, there is no one shot one kill style collision detection, cars have weight and take time to turn, and higher speeds lend to wider turns, placing less importance on fine movement.

Being able to see what's ahead of you is obviously the most important aspect (so perhaps more emphasis on various camera angles), proper FOV I could understand, but framerate seems very low on the scale. I still stress that in an arcade racer, framerate is more for visual preference than it is for input. People act like 30FPS lends itself to horrid input latency (it doesn't, it's quite good, just not the best obviously), and it's extremely exaggerated. People can play racing games in either 30 or 60 frames and play amazing. I agree with the developers on this one, and state that consistency is way more important. Your mind can always develop the patterns to recognize response times, unless they're all over the place, which a locked 30 will solve.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Not likely, IMO. They would've then made the graphics even prettier and still tank the fps to 30.

yep this is what people don't understand some devs will always go for 30fps for eye candy .
If you want 60fps in all your games choose PC cause it not happening on console

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

I've never seen that in a racer before.

Evolution's WRC 1-3 on PS2

Please have some long narrow point to point tracks in DRIVECLUB.

All Evolution Studio's games so far have been 30FPS.

WRC 1 - 5 were 60fps gameplay / replay

but I think the rally cross mode in 5 was 30fps, or it used less detailed cars.