So, you wish them to burn one more $billion on a fast-tracked console that will be expensive, large, hot and power hungry? Yeah, that describes Nintendo tradition perfectly.........
Nintendo full year financial results [23.2B yen loss, 3.6M Wii U/12M 3DS forecast]
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
- Start date
So, you wish them to burn one more $billion on a fast-tracked console that will be expensive, large, hot and power hungry? Yeah, that describes Nintendo tradition perfectly.........
They've built at least two new offices, founded at least one new studio, invested in at least two companies, took over at least one company and bought back shares worth a billion bucks since. A lot of the money isn't gone, it was invested.
shinra-bansho
Member
I see Nintendo ultimately as a software company, not out of any particularly strong desire to play their games on another platform - if I had sufficient urge to do so I'd simply buy the system.
I just see it as an eventuality as the dedicated handheld market continues to be substituted and I don't expect a generation out in the wilderness will provide any sort of launch pad for another home system.
Unless their magical health doohickey is a hit I suppose.
Or they considerably reduce their operating expenses.
I just see it as an eventuality as the dedicated handheld market continues to be substituted and I don't expect a generation out in the wilderness will provide any sort of launch pad for another home system.
Unless their magical health doohickey is a hit I suppose.
Or they considerably reduce their operating expenses.
Their total assets held including fixed assets in which they've invested have decreased considerably in the same period as well.
Why? For the same reason they did with so many niche titles in the past, to diversify the game offer on their hardware with games in the genres they don't create. I think the big mistake for Nintendo is that they didn't do the same for the FPS and sports genre in this era.
Narpas Sword0
Member
I got Twisted Metal Black on PSN included with my copy of Twisted Metal like 3 years ago.
There is no excuse for platforms that are only 2-3 years old to have no interoperability. Vita came out at the same time as 3DS and was prepared for the release of its PS4 partner years later.
And this isn't even about cross-platform cooperation. If my 3DS gets stolen I can't just log into my account on a new 3DS and redownload all my games. I have two 360s in my house that both have all my games on it. I can't do that with any Nintendo product.
"Eventually" is not something you should trust.
Steam is a completely different beast that wouldn't exactly bode well in the console space.
Between 2 and 3. I should have been more clear about that.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Well, they just closed their Taiwan office so I think layoffs already started.
A couple of updates to things I've been tracking:
The Powerhouse 3DS vs NDS at the same point in their lifespan:
And Nintendo's cash + short term position:
It's worth noting that the cash reduction this year was in large part due to them purchasing 9.5 million shares at 12,025 JPY. The stock closed yesterday at 10,670 JPY. I wonder where the price would be if they'd just had the Yamauchi heirs sell their shares on the open market?
The Powerhouse 3DS vs NDS at the same point in their lifespan:
Code:
This quarter
TTM after 13 quarters on sale:
3DS Hardware: 12.24
NDS Hardware: 29.18
3DS Software: 67.89*
NDS Software: 176.64**
Last Quarter
TTM after 12 quarters on sale:
3DS Hardware: 12.89
NDS Hardware: 26.83
3DS Software: 67.30*
NDS Software: 155.89**
* Software sales units and the number of new titles for Nintendo 3DS
are those of Nintendo 3DS card software (packaged and downloadable versions).
** This does not include DSiWareAnd Nintendo's cash + short term position:
Code:
March 2009: 1,220,148
March 2010: 1,252,321
March 2011: 1,171,076
March 2102: 958,322
March 2013: 903,301
March 2014: 795,215It's worth noting that the cash reduction this year was in large part due to them purchasing 9.5 million shares at 12,025 JPY. The stock closed yesterday at 10,670 JPY. I wonder where the price would be if they'd just had the Yamauchi heirs sell their shares on the open market?
Nice to see you consistent with your gargling.
Nintendo, the demigod of gaming, shall rise like a Phoenix to save gaming from these terrible non-Nintendo games!
Not hard to see why, as they have always been japan focused, where FPS and (realistic) sport games aren't that popular as in the west.
I see them making "entertaining software" for other platforms that aren't gaming systems. I guess that's not what most people want when they want nintendo to go 3rd party though.
True, the new offices could always be sold off, not so sure about the share purchases and investments in those companies. They don't exactly have a track record of making good investment decisions recently
I didn't comment on the reasons or economic effects of the decrease in cash and short-term securities. It's just that people mention this "warchest" which supposedly lets Nintendo survive a thousand years, when it's depleting much faster in reality.
I thought we were talking cash, not total assets held.
"A lot of the money isn't gone, it's invested!" is a great line. I'm going to use it on the bank next month.
outunderthestars
Banned
This whole "Sony and MS consoles only have generic AAA crap" bullshit simply needs to stop. I know that Nintendo fans like to pretend that Nintendo is this white knight in a dangerous land of Dudebro, but it simply isn't the case. Seriously, go look at the games that have been announced for the PS4 for example. Dozens of new IPs covering a wide range of genres, art styles, and gaming tastes.
Nintendo isn't the only company creating unique and compelling content.
Apophis2036
Banned
Didn't Iwata want a 100 billion Yen operating profit and he ended up with a 46.4 billion loss ? :-O.
Is this only the second time Nintendo have had a yearly loss in their history ?.
Is this only the second time Nintendo have had a yearly loss in their history ?.
Do you seriously think they produce games to diversify their lineup despite nobody being interested in those titles and nobody buying them? If that's true then Nintendo's decision makers are fucked up beyond help. If it's just you believing that, then you are completely delusional.
Had Nintendo anticipated the sales for W101, I'm more than certain it would not have been made.
I invested mine in Pokémon cards.
Narpas Sword0
Member
The N64 was successful in the US and it brought us GoldenEye and Perfect Dark, as well as Wave Race and Ken Griffey and 1080 Snowboarding.
Nintendo made a choice to completely abandon these markets. It's not like they never knew about them.
That move was all about consolidation. The Taiwan branch was small, and the stuff they handled can be taken care of by Nintendo HK.
You actually can when asking for a business loan. Those are investment assets.
its a valid argument, if you can sell your building and get the cash back - its not lost cash.
Graphics Horse
Member
No this is their third in a row.
BundysFeet
Banned
Funny. Many do fine never owning a Nintendo system. Also, I see youre ignoring the PC.
Yeah, but a war chest isn't meant to keep a dying company on life support for decades, it's meant to be invested when necessary or when opportunities arise. Which is what Nintendo did. You have to spend money to make money.True, the new offices could always be sold off, not so sure about the share purchases and investments in those companies. They don't exactly have a track record of making good investment decisions recently
I didn't comment on the reasons or economic effects of the decrease in cash and short-term securities. It's just that people mention this "warchest" which supposedly lets Nintendo survive a thousand years, when it's depleting much faster in reality.
IncandescentPrecept
Banned
Even without counting the shares bought back, that's $3.4B less in 4 years.
Narpas Sword0
Member
1: "Nintendo has an endless warchest of cash to spend!"
2: "That warchest is rapidly depleting"
1: "Yea because they bought stocks and companies and buildings!"
2: "The stocks, companies, and buildings have also declined in value"
1: "Who cares we are talking about cash!"
Yes there is. The VITA uses a modern architecture similar to PS3 (but more limited). 3DS uses an old architecture based on the original DS but spiced up.
WiiU uses an equally old architecture based on gamecube technology (but offcourse in the modern age with multiple cores and higher Mhz).
These two platforms aren't compatible/easy to combine in the same way VITA/PS3/PS4 can share assets/engines/workflow.
As far as we know nintendo is trying to fix that for their future platforms (the result will be a lack of backward compatibility), but they do recognise their problem there.
Kageshinzo
Member
And then watch as the few remaining core fans that they have leave them in disgust at coming out with another platform a mere 3 years after they launched their previous one. No console since the crash came out less than 4 years from its predecessor and with good reason: people need to be reassured that the investment they made will still be supported by the maker for at least 4 years.
I don't understand when people kept complaining that they sat on this warchest then guffaw at the warchest depleting when they actually use it to do exactly what they asked.
How the fuck does a building decline in value? I get the stocks and companies bit, which was more about holding control from outside forces and expanding into new ventures, but buildings? Let's obfuscate the argument and move the goalposts some more shall we?
Majukun
Member
Realistically what can Nintendo do to stop the hemorrhaging?
the wii U is beyond saving..they definitely can support more the 3ds and then maybe try to find some other ways to get profits (licensing products especially) to survive until it's time for a new gen.
maybe try to create a third pillar that would be somehow profitable in the short term
Get LESS cash back.
"Why are you investing in assets when your company is in the red for the year?"
I won't disagree. New offices and investments were a necissity. It's just that some people act(ed) as if these cash reserves could absorb losses for the next thousand years when that is not the case.
Speaking of assets, Nintendo's doesn't gone on some sort of selling spree.
Although, maybe they should just pull an Apple and pay off shit with debt instead.
Bizarre, ain't it. I can only assume it's rooted in wilful ignorance. If anything, it's Nintendo systems that tend to have the narrowest libraries.
PdotMichael
Banned
I wish Nintendo would use some of the warchest money to design a not totally underpowered console with a stupid gimick.
But I'm naive.
Some new offices are way more important.
But I'm naive.
Some new offices are way more important.
Bony Manifesto
Member
To what end though? Third party support is negligible, so the only reason why Nintendo would deliberately take the hit on these niche titles is so people have the hardware to buy their own cash-cow titles. Which seems like odd logic to me: surely their most popular franchises - the Mario Karts, the Smash Bros - are much more likely to convince people to buy the console than relatively niche titles like X and Wonderful 101.
And if it was about diversity, why on earth would Nintendo make so many damn 2D platform games anyway? Yes, I know Kirby is different to Donkey Kong, which is different to Yoshi, which is different to Mario, but they're all riffing on a very similar theme.
Narpas Sword0
Member
They have spent a good chunk of their money over the last 3-4 years and it has not resulted in an uptick in their core business. At what point will their remaining money be invested into products that will although them to grow market share and profit? The clock is ticking.
And the money spent on stock buybacks and buildings can't be instantly (or freely) converted into money they can use on R&D and marketing. That money is now tied up. If Nintendo has to start dumping stocks and selling buildings to fund a console launch their share price is going to plummet and bond prices are going to spike.
shinra-bansho
Member
Flooding the market with that many shares wouldn't have been good for the price I imagine. Nintendo were essentially forced to buy them. And when the Yamauchi family likely sells their remaining 4M or so shares I imagine Nintendo will need to buy those too. If they do, then they'll hold almost a fifth of the company in treasury stock (they're almost there now).
They can slowly release them though, or hoard them in takeover prevention paranoia.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
This can't be overstated. A big reason why I've never seriously considered buying a Wii U is just due to how tragically, stubbornly behind the times Nintendo is when it comes to their digital platform/account system. It's fucking shameful.
Narpas Sword0
Member
A wizard didn't curse them into this line of thought. Nintendo could have planned this out. Steam/iTunes were not new concepts when the 3DS launched.
The Virtual Console, at minimum, should share across consoles and you should be able to redownload your purchases on secondary hardware through an account login. Your excuse is "Nintendo is stupid" which is not good enough.
The next time MS has a Strategy RPG in their lineup, it will be the first.
The yamauchi share buy back really hurt them. On the plus side it's good to see nintendo finally being realistic as far as projected wiiu sales go. It seems they have finally realised that the market has changed. On other interesting thing is the sheer amount of money spent on R&D. This suggests that they are far into the cycle of developing new machines. You don't spend several hundred million on nothing.
So it's something of a mixed bag, a big loss (with some extenuating circumstances) and low projected sales but maybe a hint of nintendo trying to put the ship right and realisic projections.
So it's something of a mixed bag, a big loss (with some extenuating circumstances) and low projected sales but maybe a hint of nintendo trying to put the ship right and realisic projections.
How else are you going to build a new console if you don't have a place to house the R&D, which was exactly what those buildings were for?
Investments don't pay off immediately after investing in them.
Of course. But even Nintendo's own projections show it didn't work - the best-case scenario for RoI is that the new HD development staff pay off, but they aren't going to have a viable platform to put software on until the launch of a -new- system that will eat -another- $2bn-$4bn of liquidity.
To put it in gaming terms, five years ago they had three lives left, and now they have one. That's never a good sign, and it's even worse when big chunks of the spending are on entrenching current management's authority and bribing shareholders rather than improving the core business.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Ok you got me with that one. I admit.
Graphics Horse
Member
That's exactly what they say they're going to do [in their next systems].
Well, the cheap part is a bit ambiguous but they're definitely looking at different pricing models.
IsntChrisL
Member
It's sad but it's better than Iwata ignoring glaring problems and stating they'll sell 9 million by the end of the year like he did last year.
They didn't even have enough office space to accommodate a sufficient number of developers to get Wii U games out in a timely manner, so yes, they absolutely are.
outunderthestars
Banned
The number of Nintendo fans going full-on Iraqi Information Minister in here is amazing. There is an almost Fox News level of dedication to talking points.
How bad do sales have to be before some of them acknowledge that Nintendo's current strategy simply is not working?
How bad do sales have to be before some of them acknowledge that Nintendo's current strategy simply is not working?
block tower
Member
only 2.7 million Wii U's sold in an entire year?
