While it's why I didn't expect the near equal XBL membership thing to equal near equal gender ratio across ALL games, that is one out of five people. A significant minority, and by averages means there should probably be at least 2 to 4 in every random game you play.
The term 'girl gamer'
- Thread starter sploatee
- Start date
charlequin
Banned
That's even worse. The person on the left streams actual gameplay with a tiny little head overlay on a full-screen game window, just like anyone else. The image is just sexist tripe.
It also looks like she's just fiddling with stats at the time, while he's on to full blown gameplay. While it's technically the part you might want to be able to most easily read it's also not the most exciting part of a stream, and would probably be a good time to minimize and bring the focus to what you want to say while you fiddle with the game, then switch back when the action gets going.
1 in 5 according to my irrefutable data.
Well, shit. /thread?
20% is notable.
But by no means is it anywhere close to 50/50 like some people here like to proclaim. That's baloney and anyone who is being honest knows that's not true *for the types of games listed above*.
Obviously if we're talking about mobile / iOS / Android games, then it's around 50/50. But that's a totally different market.
I've played MMOs since Ultima Online alpha, and been on many different guild or raid voice chats and there's no way it's 50% females in those games.
Mockingbird
Member
O_O A lot of bans on the first page...
BananaSprinkles
Banned
Nobody honestly believe that female gamers don't exist.
Do you have a better source for those games?
Clearly Jeff Green must be a girl.
He cut the right part. This is the original complete picture.
shanshan310
Member
Aaaaand this is why I never use voice chat. Being called "he" all the time sucks, but not as much as being harassed and called a bitch if people realise I'm not a he.
Who cares what the exact percentage is, or what type of games people are playing. The point is there is a sizable female population in gaming. A lot of girls do like games.
Who cares what the exact percentage is, or what type of games people are playing. The point is there is a sizable female population in gaming. A lot of girls do like games.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Yikes. I understand what most of the banned people meant. I think they didn't explain themselves of being weary of the trend of some girls calling attention to themselves for being a girl who plays video games as opposed to girls who just want to play games like everyone else.
Also they'd have issues getting off the pedestal, so it'd just be a mean thing to do.
So what about the plenty of dudes who call attention to themselves for being dudes who play videogames?
Caayn
Member
I don't really understand the term girl-gamer. Look at other activities, for example, you don't differentiate a male and female horse riders you simple call them a horse rider. Why is there the need to differentiate between males and females who play games, in the end does it really matter?
Gaming got really popular in the last few years and not only girls but also guys have been using it to get more attention from other people. There'll always be people that use the latest trends in their favor to get more attention, it's nothing new and isn't gender specific.
Gaming got really popular in the last few years and not only girls but also guys have been using it to get more attention from other people. There'll always be people that use the latest trends in their favor to get more attention, it's nothing new and isn't gender specific.
Pun not intended I hope?
I said treating it like they don't exist. Not actually believing it.
For those games exactly? I would have to take a look. But your studies are from 2005 which is why I have trouble believing them to be accurate.
He cut the right part. This is the original complete picture.
The guy is playing, its not on downtime. The girl is.
The girl when she is actually playing:
That image is a stupid invalid comparison.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
DAREALGUMMY
Member
They're just as bad?
This'll do I guess. Would be nicer for more recent, but that hits when WoW was at its peak or close enough.
It's not as simple as core vs casual though, some of those core games will have more equal ratios for one reason or another, maybe even some flip it around though I wouldn't know which. The WoW numbers there showcase it readily.
Who has stated that girls do not play games? Everyone realizes they do.
The most recent WoW raiding guild I was in for over 2+ years was solely led by a girl, and she was cool so I have no problems with it. She even bossed all the guys around, but it was fine because she was competent and still listened to people when necessary.
But if someone wants to make a claim (you did not, I'm talking about others in this thread) that literally 50% of people who play games like WoW or LoL or CoD are girls, then I'm calling bullshit on that. Because it's not close to 50% and I would bet all my financial assets on it (if there was hypothetically a way to find out).
But there are certainly more girls who play those types of games nowdays, that's definitely true.
I just have a problem with people who like to exaggerate.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Yeah, probably. I guess I get stuck in the knowledge that some people think I'm a guy regardless of my sn / tag.
Either way, a lot of the messages on PSN/Miiverse make me laugh at this point. Yeah, I feel uncomfortable but man some of them are hilarious. I could joke that the thirst is real, but you get the drift.
I still like to stream even if it isn't public, and I added moderators to my chat in case I can't get to something quick enough. But I will admit that it can be harder to interact with your chat since a) Twitch now has a delay so you are faster than your chat and need to time your responses, and b) you have to stop play and respond (and that response might not be very short depending on the question). At the same time, when you're playing a game with a lot of voice acting and cutscenes, you don't need a mic for that because the game speaks for itself.
I don't think it's limited to just consoles because you get the same type of stuff for women who stream using PC games, and while the demographics for some consoles, handhelds, and PC, you will still have some people of different ages participating in the same kind of behaviour. You also have the issue with fanboyism for both genders. Take a look at any of the more prominent Let's Players of any gender on Something Awful, and you'll notice that some of them have fanart, fanfiction, wikis, TVtropes pages, etc. And some of them hate it. They're just there to play and explain games. They aren't there to be fawned over and they don't want special treatment.
Some of the PS4 streams might be akin to some streams you'd see on JustinTV in terms of a conversational angle. Some people, regardless of gender, put themselves on-stream because of attention, but others genuinely have a message to communicate, a skill they want to show (ex: there is this one person who streams themselves playing the guitar almost every Friday on PS4, I think), play through something because they might want help, etc. Not every person who wishes to stream a game (even on camera), might be doing it for more, um, promotional reasons. But I won't deny that there are certainly people who do. And it sucks that they do that, too, because some of them aren't bad at playing. That is the skill they should be demonstrating, and they shouldn't get dinged by the online community who participate in their chats just for doing that.
I don't think your OP was demonstrative of latent misogyny because you'd essentially said that you might not have had as much experience in terms of the other side of the coin, and that's fine. I think some responses in this thread are providing a decent plethora of other perspectives, especially on behalf of some of the females who post on this forum.
The general point is, as you've said, many females who play games of any genre just want to be treated as peers without special treatment, but also without denigration. Some women do distinguish themselves by in some way, not just by stating that they are female, whether it'd be through voice or putting themselves on camera like some male players generally also do, because they just want to normally participate in the games community. Identifying as a female gamer is simply part of their identity and they shouldn't have to hide it.
Yeah, it's much better without. I ain't got time to deal with people also insulting me for my gender, aside from telling me I'm inferior if I'm not doing well or whining when I'm doing better than they are like some players are generally prone to doing.
BananaSprinkles
Banned
Perhaps I misunderstood the question my post was referencing, but none of what you talked about was included.
The only one from 2005 was WoW.
Well that's interesting.
Devolution
Member
If you're not so good it's because "lol you're a girl."
If you beat them, like I tend to do, you must be a "fat ugly whore cuntdyke" who has nothing better to do.
Fuck all that. I just wanna game.
So that says 400k back in 2009, when WoW had maybe around 10M subs? So who made up the other 9.6M subs?
Granted, I do see they broke it down by age, but I don't know why they did it that way. Why not just study how many total females vs total males?
Until we get some real confirmed numbers, and I don't know if that's possible, we're just speculating. But I would bet a significant amount of money it's not 50% in the types of games that someone listed (LoL / WoW / CoD / Eve Online / etc)
I should have clarified that the WoW studies were my main concern, sorry.
I want to look into the LoL and CoD studies because both those percentages seem way too big of a difference.
charlequin
Banned
We prefer to maintain higher standards of discussion and behavior here. If someone sees a discussion about "girl gamers" and all they can think to say is "they're all attention whores," they're not contributing anything useful to the conversation, but they are making an unfair (and sexist) generalization. We have a number of women who've posted in this thread to share both the upsides and downsides of identifying their gender in online games, and dismissing anyone who falls down on one side of that as attention-starved and manipulative is incredibly disrespectful.
blitzcloud
Banned
I learned my lesson (after two times) in regards of talking about women here. It's too one-sided.
Charlequin, (I think) we've had the same behavior of attention-starve calling towards male "entities" in the gaming world. I didn't see the bans there.
Apparently not? Because I don't remember any threads on GAF about someone with "Gamer" in his name, and the "girl gamer" subject is a perennial favorite here.
I see zero issue with someone calling herself a gamer girl. You use what's different about you to identify yourself, that's basic psychology. Gaming (as we know it) is male-dominated, so if your primary form of self-identification is being female, then so be it. I don't get upset every time I see "AZN" in someone's name, because I don't give a fuck if someone is Asian in CoD. I also don't give a fuck if someone smokes weed, but they're free to put 420 in their name. I'm not going to criticize that. But for some reason, being female is a huge issue here. If people don't care, then they don't care. Clearly they do, or this thread wouldn't have gotten this far. Clearly some people give too much of a shit, because my girlfriend and I got "SWATTED" because she was targeted for being a female streamer.
No real feeling either way on the term. Have many friends one of my best a girl that plays. Years ago we beat ICO together on PS2. She goes online time to time and gets tons of attention. Don't think everyone that says hi is a creep who can't get a girl.
People that put down women or use racism online need to go imo. Heard some brutal things online years back directed a female Socom player that I hope one day, we can rid this hobby of. Will never forget that,...never liked public lobbies since. Some people do use the term for attention, but thats for most activities gaming included and both genders.
Want to talk games awesome, can you play cool.
People that put down women or use racism online need to go imo. Heard some brutal things online years back directed a female Socom player that I hope one day, we can rid this hobby of. Will never forget that,...never liked public lobbies since. Some people do use the term for attention, but thats for most activities gaming included and both genders.
Want to talk games awesome, can you play cool.
Fornaximus
Member
It makes me immediately dismiss them and whatever they're doing. Putting such an emphasis on their gender is merely a desperate grab for attention. I've gamed with girls throughout my entire life, all the way back to the days of playing Donkey Kong with my friend Leah on her SNES after school in the 2nd grade, up until the present day, playing fighting games with my friend's girlfriend, or playing Borderlands with one of the girls I met through MapleStory back in the day. They're just people. People who play games.
I can't say I use the term "Girl Gamer" or any similar terms myself, but I can understand why others use it. I've had more than my fair share of "YOU'RE A GIRL?!" incidents playing games, followed by the person in question doing a total 180 in personality. Kind of desensitizing, even...
While I was tempted to joke "the Chinese" there is truth to that in that they must make up a huge number, and if they're not counted there's South Korea, as well as other Asian countries nevermind all of Europe. It's a globally popular game, Nielsen likely just got American numbers... which gave the male count at 675,713 between 25-52. So within that age range it's about 1:1.57. I doubt the 53 and 54 women significantly change that skewing, and if it did that's an interesting story in and of itself.
Give me a break.
How does anyone expect discussion when someone comes in and throws out generalizations like the ones on the first page?
charlequin
Banned
400,000 in the US. Over half the worldwide active users are Chinese; I think the peak US number was around 2 million (which would support a 20% figure.)
Yeah I wish there was a way we could find out the exact gender breakdown of all 10M subs without regard to age. But unfortunately I don't think there's a way for Blizzard to release that info.
What about for ages under-25, do you personally think those numbers would be skewed more toward males? I have a feeling it would. Most of the females I encountered or knew in WoW were over 20s.
As a woman, I don't even like the term 'girl gamer' because of the word 'girl'! What are female gamers, 7 year old 'girls'?
Once in a party on XBL, a guy found out I was an adult woman, and ripped into me for 'not looking after my children and making dinner for the family'. That has been my most disappointing experience to date as a female gamer.
There should be no gender differentiation. Otherwise we should just start calling males who game 'boy gamers'.
Once in a party on XBL, a guy found out I was an adult woman, and ripped into me for 'not looking after my children and making dinner for the family'. That has been my most disappointing experience to date as a female gamer.
There should be no gender differentiation. Otherwise we should just start calling males who game 'boy gamers'.
Most of the people I encountered in World of Warcraft were over 20. Also from personal experience, there were always a significant amount of females in the guilds that I joined. Enough that discussion rarely trended down the path of demoralizing someone for their gender or status. It was a really welcoming environment in contrast to say... playing something like a first person shooter.
I don't think there's an age limit. Having a "girl's night out" doesn't mean hanging out with a young crowd, it just means spending time with other women rather than guys. Having a girlfriend doesn't mean you're dating someone of a particular age, etc. There are definitely some who find the term demeaning, but I prefer to own it.
I never really heard any demoralization toward girls in my guilds either, but like in your experience, there were usually several female members in most guilds I joined. So everyone was mostly mature.
Devolution
Member
Rarely had a problem with WoW.
Xbox Live and FPSes, whole other can of worms.
Xbox Live and FPSes, whole other can of worms.
If it's their hobby in an active sense, rather than just something they do occasionally? Cinephile.
"Gamer" describes someone who approaches videogames with passion and dedication, as opposed to somebody who just likes to play them from time to time. There's nothing wrong with that. If there's something that should annoy you, it's the fact that "gamer" carries negative connotations for some people while "cinephile", "oenophile" (wine hobbyist), etc., don't. (Maybe we should start calling ourselves "ludophiles" instead of "gamers".
)MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
.
I agree. If the worst thing you've been called on XBL is a negligent housewife, you're doing ok. I've been called worseMy mates and I were in utter shock with our first experience playing against American kids/teens on XBL on the original Xbox. I'd never heard so much casual racism prior. I still remember exactly what they said.
Man this thread is a graveyard...
Most of us who have used the chat have been called much worse.
Some off the top of my head:
Dyke, cunt, bitch, whore, slut. housewife(typical bullshit "go make me a sandwich cunt"), inferior, etc.
You might want to stop digging that hole. Believing that everyone in a social context is just like you is a common delusion. It's the same kind of assumption that allows homophobes to assume there were no gay men in professional sports.
Aeana isn't the only woman here who was online long before the 90's. My first email address used bang path addressing because domain names hadn't been invented yet. Games aren't the unique province of men, either. Roberta Williams and Jane Jensen were writing adventure games in the 80's. Carol Shaw wrote River Raid at Activision for the Atari 2600. Dona Bailey wrote Centipede for Atari. Anne Westfall wrote Archon back in the day.
Kind of (not that) surprised people are that abusive still but I never play games with voice chat so maybe that's why. I thought when people insulted "girl gamers" they meant the #girlgamer instagram type rather than "girl who said something on the microphone, time to insult!!!"
GrannyGamers!
GrannyGamers!
This part is definitely true. Console FPS voicechat is a total shithole