Riderz1337
Banned
Really when you think about it, the entire game is an escort mission...I mean you're goal is to escort Ellie to the fireflies lol
LTTP: The Last of Us (unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter Marjar
- Start date
Really when you think about it, the entire game is an escort mission...I mean you're goal is to escort Ellie to the fireflies lol
There was another type of infected, stalkers. They were pretty much just tougher runners in practice, though. I guess the main variety in humans came from the type of weapon they had.
Riderz1337
Banned
The scene in the barn when Ellie escapes is where their relationship really change. Go replay it or watch it on Youtube.
No I said I enjoyed that aspect. Third person stealth and me don't gel very well I've discovered, so I'm glad that, if I got caught, it didn't mean that I pretty much had to reload a checkpoint and try again. I could just lose them and outsmart them.
Had I played this on hard without the listen mode, I'd probably hate it. Normal was enough for me honestly.
Fancy Clown
Member
I think that's a pretty reductive way of looking at it. I'm familiar with your love of Uncharted 3 (and agree with most of your points regarding it) so I know you like the interactive 'moments', but Summer does so much so well. The beginning of Boston (lame tutorial sections aside) was amazing at interactive storytelling, as it let you explore the city and find all sorts of optional things on your own that really tell the story of games world. And the brilliant moment where the game teaches you how to aim and shoot a weapon by letting you put a guy out of his misery is a perfect example of organic, interactive, storytelling.
Summer was all about laying the groundworks for the characters relationships, and the world, and in that it succeeded amazingly. It makes sense for the game to be a bunch of fights in Summer (that were all brilliantly done and fun on their own right, such as the hotel, escaping the armored vehicle, and the sniper battle). And there were so many moments of brilliant in game, non-linear storytelling like when you come out of the sewers and you are just free to explore this huge neighborhood and piece together it's story, while also stumbling upon little character moments like Sam and Ellie playing darts.
I agree the second half of the game is better, but that's simply because it built upon the foundations that Summer lay down. The gameplay and storytelling that each chapter used was perfectly suited to what it was trying to accomplish. Ultimately, Summer was about what showing the stakes of what having someone you care about in this world means (as represented by the foil characters Bill, and Henry and Sam) while living in a relentlessly brutal world (as shown by the myriad of harrowing situations, the Pittsburgh hunters, the infected, the sewers, etc). And then the second half of the game is all about the characters making choices and cementing their relationship after weighing the costs that were demonstrated in the first half, so it makes sense you have more moments of agency and control in the latter segments.
Edit: typed this all up on mobile so I hope it's coherent.
One day, when you have the right state of mind - when you're open to trying something beyond your comfort zone... give a higher difficulty a shot and turn listen mode off. Go in knowing that the experience is suppose to be slower and more challenging. That it's going to foster more critical thinking (not just regarding the gameplay but the experience, holistically) and patience.
The harder difficulties aren't even about raw challenge as much as they're about being a better fit for the precincts and atmosphere the game presents.
Fancy Clown
Member
Agreed the gameplay style the harder difficulties force you into highlight the narrative relevance of the combat in the game. It's absolutely instrumental to in setting the tone of the game, illustrating the world the characters are forced to inhabit, and the trials they endure together that shape their relationships.
Instead of run and gunning to the next cutscene, you are surviving. Every shot counts.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
So you're not allowed to have an opinion on the game unless you've beaten it on hard mode?
Nealand Liquor
Member
That is what I got from it. Now with how infrequently that point is brought up, in comparison with Joel dooming humanity, I wonder if most people that had an issue with the ending never found the recorders or never looked at/read/listened to the collectables?
otokonomiyaki
Neo Member
There's definitely evidence that Joel's actions aren't actually dooming humanity as people keep saying, but at the same time, I think ND put this hint in knowing full well that a) a lot of people wouldn't listen to it and b) even if Joel himself had listened to it, it wouldn't have changed his mind anyway.
The dude's too far gone to let go of another daughter.
I actually think the game is at its best when exploring and chatting with characters (not the boring scavening ofcourse)
I hated the drawn out repetitive fire fights with bullet sponges.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I see a lot of people saying they beat it in less than 15hrs. It took me about 20 without getting stuck anywhere because I searched every nook and cranny in every room and outdoor area so I could see this being the case for some people.
The development of their relationship with each other is one of the most smartly crafted relationships I've ever seen in a story. It's an incredibly slow burn that realistically builds up over time and changes in appropriate ways. The last thing I'd ever say about their relationship is that it "suddenly" did anything.
SolidSnakex
Member
The bloater is the only bullet sponge character in the entire game. And they're few and far between in the campaign. If you're shooting the clickers in the chest, then that's more on you than the game. I believe that you're even told to aim for their head.
I downloaded this song after I heard it in that scene, and I usually hate that type of music. It does fit the themes and story perfectly, and it has a really great effect on that scene as well. I love the way you can still hear it very faintly during that first fight in the convenient store.
While I'm on the subject, I think that every aspect of the sound and music in this game should be applauded. It doesn't seem to get as much credit as it should, but everything from the clicker noises, to gun sounds, voice acting, and especially Gustavo Santaolalla's work is excellent and probably some of the best I've heard in recent memory.
In terms of music, I especially love the main theme and the song that plays when Joel wakes up during winter and goes on the warpath to find Ellie (can't find the name of it right now).
Last of us sold really well. Sony wanted a halo and they finally have a super ip. Just think of it as a massive ip in the same level as halo. It is a massive ip where lots of people bought the game and lot of people really like the game. Probably sell 10 million when all said and done. Last of us 2 will sell 2+ million it's first day.
Well I hate the aiming system in the game which is supposed to be 'realistic' which makes constant headshotting a pain.
Bloaters aren't actually bullet sponges because they are very vulnerable to Molotov and flamethrower.
mynameismyname
Banned
I get it, but Last of Us is so damn good, it deserves every thread it gets.
akidnamededdy
Banned
The game's only redeeming quality is its gameplay. Which seems odd to say, now that I think about it.
I get "bad endings that are good" but I don't think this was one of those. Really I don't think the story in general did anything amazing or even noteworthy. It's a very by-the-books post-apocalypse type plot. The dialogue is written well, but the characters are not.
I dunno. I wanna say "it's good for a game" but the fact is there are better game stories out there, too. The DLC actually IS "good, for a game" because of what they do with Ellie, but beyond that I just don't get why it gets the praise it does.
I get "bad endings that are good" but I don't think this was one of those. Really I don't think the story in general did anything amazing or even noteworthy. It's a very by-the-books post-apocalypse type plot. The dialogue is written well, but the characters are not.
I dunno. I wanna say "it's good for a game" but the fact is there are better game stories out there, too. The DLC actually IS "good, for a game" because of what they do with Ellie, but beyond that I just don't get why it gets the praise it does.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
It was the other way around for me, the gameplay was average but I kept playing because I loved Ellie's character and I wanted to see how the story played out.
I really wanted to connect to the characters, but they all just felt very... run of the mill I guess? None of their personalities really shined to me, aside from David who I thought was by far the most interesting character.
Although maybe that's just me being shitty at picking up subtleties, I dunno.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
You know its a masterpiece of a game when people make LTTP threads a month after release.
and a month before release. lolol
Palette Swap
Member
You can live without it but it's still very much worth the purchase.
I bought and played it yesterday. It took me maybe 3 hours to finish on Survivor and looking for collectibles. So it's not very long.
It's very character focused and I'd say the action/story balance is a bit more in favor of story than in the main game. It absolutely maintains the quality you've come to expect from the main game: the encounters are well designed, the environments have this great "lived in" feeling and the writing/acting are excellent.
The premise is basically to fill you in on
what happens to Ellie during that story ellipse before you control her in the main game. And tell you more about what her life was like before she met Joel.
In the end, how essential it is depends on how attached to the characters you've grown.
FWIW, I absolutely loved it but then again, both characters and their relationship resonated a lot for me in the main game.
otokonomiyaki
Neo Member
If you really loved the main game, the DLC is totally worth it. If you liked the game, but it didn't quite leave a gaping hole in your chest where your heart used to be, you might want to hold on for a sale or something and pick it up for less.
I cleared the DLC just once (but the main game maybe four times) and found that was enough. It flits between two different points in time in the game world - one part prior to Ellie and Joel meeting, the other taking place about 2/3 of the way through the main game's plot that we didn't get to see previously. There were times when it wasn't especially exhilarating, but equally there were others when it was easily as terrifying and involving as the original game. and in retrospect even the slower sections really help flesh out the characters, and you learn a lot more about Ellie.
Left Behind isn't that long to be honest, maybe 2-3 hours, but it'll hit you in the feels, scare the pants off you, and even throw in a cool new gameplay dynamic that I found myself wishing existed in the main game.
Tl;dr It's not a must-buy for everyone, but since you're a fan, I say go for it.
King Beyond the wall
Member
Playing this game on anything less than hard is just denying yourself the true experience. Its a much different experience when you have only 2 bullets for a few guns and you have scour every area for anything useful, When you have to make the decision to build a Molly or health kit.
Playing on normal you basically have unlimited ammo and three of every item constantly. On hard and survivor you will only have 1 or 2 at any one time and you will kick yourself if you waste one. Much better experience.
Also your response to the ending is interesting - you say you didn't like it because Joel was such a bad person (that's morally debatable) but that's like saying that you didn't like Empire Strikes Back because Vader was such a villain. That shouldn't be a reason for you to dislike the game, the fact that the character has invoked an emotional response is a positive.
Playing on normal you basically have unlimited ammo and three of every item constantly. On hard and survivor you will only have 1 or 2 at any one time and you will kick yourself if you waste one. Much better experience.
Also your response to the ending is interesting - you say you didn't like it because Joel was such a bad person (that's morally debatable) but that's like saying that you didn't like Empire Strikes Back because Vader was such a villain. That shouldn't be a reason for you to dislike the game, the fact that the character has invoked an emotional response is a positive.
I agree 100%.
Sometimes it feels like people complain about sniper sections just because they are conditioned to do so. It's true, most of them do ruin the flow of a game, or are just way too long and boring to play, this one was very well done imo.
This is such a common complaint about characters in games, movies, series and books, but I kinda don't get it. Why can't you hate the protagonist? Do you really have to agree with every major decision of the main character? Don't get me wrong, if the character is horribly written, then sure, but if the writing supports his actions, then I really don't see any problem and that's certainly the case with Joel.
I honestly prefer a protagonist who challenges my own views on certain topics, instead of the regular vanilla hero guy.
Haha, this.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Humanity was already doomed. Even if the Fireflies managed to develop a cure, the world is obviously filled with people who don't deserve to be saved. After the spores spread, things could never go back to "normal", even with a cure. People seem to kill each other for stupid reasons regardless. Who are the Fireflies to determine the fate of the Human race, and what stops them from abusing this potential power? In the end Joel saved the last person he felt deserved to be saved at all costs, which is obviously selfish on his part, but perhaps it was for the better.
That's how I see it.
I dunno. It was just a really unsatisfying ending for me. At the same time, I can't really think of another way it could have ended. Maybe if I was able to connect to the characters (specifically Ellie) I'd appreciate it more, but I just got nothing out of them. I wanted to like them, but in the end they were just... there.
I just don't get it I guess.
King Beyond the wall
Member
In a way, the ending was supposed to be unsatisfying - what Joel did was wrong, he not only denied the world an opportunity for a vaccine to the infection, but he also went against what Ellie wanted. From Ellie's point of view it is anticlimactic. But this was Joel's story, and for him his actions were natural and understandable : Ellie was his surrogate daughter and he wasn't going to lose her like he lost Sarah. Even if it meant losing the chance of a cure, breaking his promise to Tess and lieing to Ellie. It was a purely selfish decision.
This is a personal story so if you don't invest yourself into the characters and understand them, I can see why the effect of the ending (which is not happy or conclusive) will definitly be diminished. I did invest into the characters and loved the ambiguity of the ending.
For a traditional or 'Hollywood' ending they would have found the cure from Ellie's blood and spread it throughout America, curing the disease and allowing society to rebuild. Maybe Joel would have died delivering Ellie to the fireflies, who would then hold a funeral service for his sacrifice.
In my opinion Joel doesn't change and him going out at the end without big consequences just makes the story unsatisfied. If characters make total selfish decision, we want them to pay for it. In Empire Strikes Back Luce goes to Cloud City, besides Yoda warning him, that he isn't ready to face Vader, He still fights him, motivated by revenge for Obi-Wan and the attack on his friends, and has to pay for his mistake with his hand. Not only have action consequences in the movie, the whole sequences was foreshadowed and therefore shouldn't be a surprise for the audience and Luke himself. He walked openly into it.
In the Last of Us the whole end of story comes as a big surprise for everybody. All the previous chapters in the story show us people and a world, which got corrupted, but still has human worth saving and not deserve suffering. Those people we as player want to protect and help, because there properly more out there, and all the horrible scum of people got punished again. Up to this point we are on Ellis side to help the word and she also seen to be even more encouraged with her sacrifice.
But it is Joel, who makes the decision for us and Eliie and therefore, and chooses his own happiness over the happiness of others. It is a complete selfish decision and he got no consequences for it! In the whole game he never suffers consequences for his decisions at all. All bad things, which happens to him, are mostly accidents or outside of his influence. Nothing comes back to bite him, he is like the child, who gets everything and get away with it. This makes the ending so unsatisfied. I want him to finally pay for his selfish actions. At the end i really expected something bad happening to him, like Ellie running away or even they fight to the dead. She might be mad at him, just isn't enough, to get away with destroying the last hope for humanity.
I also see those tapes, which hint at the non-function of the operation, meaningless and even a cop-out. They only sacrifice the action of the story-teller, are not foreshadowed and are actually meaningless. Joel deciding against humanity before getting the tapes. Good thing, he never can do wrong! Hell, those tapes even show, that Ellie can't be possible mad at him at end. Just let here hear them and she would be on his side.
Maybe in the sequel somthing happens, but the game need to stay on its own foot. It fails with its ending (like many Naughty Dog stories), even so building up nice characters. It also show problems in story-telling with games. Joel going against my decision, complicity alienates me from the game and the story. I thought i was Joel through the game. My action are his. But at the end i never was Joel. We have a story about a selfish guy, who turns out to be a selfish guy. Surprise!
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Probably because he was the 'baddy' to you and you needed Joel to be the 'goody'. Subtlety is what TLOU was all about.
King Beyond the wall
Member
Great post.
As the post above me rightly states, Joel doesn't come out with everything because his relationship with Ellie, the person for whom he denied the world a chance of a cure, has been utterly ruined. This consequence is more than enough as the entire game had been building up their relationship. She knows what he did, and she doesn't agree with him. She was ready to die, and had been since Riley, and even if she knew there was not a guaranteed chance of a cure she would have chosen to die for the chance.
Joel was selfish in the end, but his actions were understandable. I can totally relate to what he did: Ellie had essentially become his daughter and the fireflies were going to kill her. Even for the chance to save the world, I can relate as to why Joel would do as he did. I don't think Joel is meant to be the player (reflecting your opinions) but rather you are to become Joel (in his mind, understanding his motives) and in this regard I think the game succeeds.
I have a piece of advice for you OP and in fact anyone who just finished a game and has the irrational urge to assault the -post a topic- button.
Take a week out and really think about what you just experienced, don't let what just experienced provoke your baser and most immediate reactions or prejudices, let it all sink in, think it through, critique your conclusions and analyse why you arrived at those conclusions.
Then perhaps you can enter a discussion regarding the merits of a piece of work.
Not that your initial post or opinion is invalid.
Take a week out and really think about what you just experienced, don't let what just experienced provoke your baser and most immediate reactions or prejudices, let it all sink in, think it through, critique your conclusions and analyse why you arrived at those conclusions.
Then perhaps you can enter a discussion regarding the merits of a piece of work.
Not that your initial post or opinion is invalid.
I have a daughter and I blasted the 3 doctors in that room with my shotgun
Was she really the cure? Could they be certain? Who's to say the virus wouldn't mutate, and become resistant to the cure, like so many viruses do. Would you allow someone to murder your daughter, on a maybe?
Yup, when I entered the OP room on my first playthrough and saw that I had no choice but to kill the doctors, I realized that this was Joel's story - not mine.
I was in the same boat as OP and also played the game for the story instead of playing the game for the game itself. And while it wasn't bad enough to put me off completely, if the story and the characters, and maybe most importantly, the quality of the voice acting weren't as good as they were, I would not have finished it.
I can't say it is a bad game, but it gets fairly predictable and repetitive after a while. There is only so many times you can get exited about finding a wood pallet so Ellie can cross a flooded segment. I think the better development for the character would be learning how to swim. It was long overdue when the game ended.
I can't say it is a bad game, but it gets fairly predictable and repetitive after a while. There is only so many times you can get exited about finding a wood pallet so Ellie can cross a flooded segment. I think the better development for the character would be learning how to swim. It was long overdue when the game ended.
I wasn't on Joel side and many other also, who believe in "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and actually respect Ellie as a person. We got a stupid ending, while everybody else got the "good" ending. Why even write a story in way, were you get a 50% chance of people liking it. A good storyteller try to satisfy as many people as possible. I don't want them to change it, just explain them self better or let more open to interpretation.
If the player isn't meant to be the player, then not have Joel be the avatar! I don't need to play him to understand his motivation. All other forms of medium and even games do this just fine. I even question if the story fits the medium. You get an interactive medium, where people actually can feel like they are a person and reasonable for there action, and don't use it effectively. The story of Last of Us works better on paper then as an interactive story! Just make it a movie.
Well... about that...
This is still for me the biggest plot holes in the game. Why doesn't Joel teach Ellie how to swim? There were never in a rush on there journey and here disadvantages was a big problem before. If Joel is all about survival, so why not teach here one of the most important basic-skills for it.