Dark Souls II
What in the fucking fuck? Can this be replicated?
SOULS series - Best to worst?
- Thread starter akaoni
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What in the fucking fuck? Can this be replicated?
Those were in Dark Souls (Stone Greatsword, Manus Catalyst).
But yeah, Dark Souls 2 made a ton of improvements that often get ignored because of the game's flaws like Soul Memory.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I did just that the other night and was floored at how great DS1 felt by comparison, realizing that I just got accustomed to DS2's quirks. Movement, attacking, rolling out of attacks, it just feels so immediately, undeniably better.
Yeah I love the melee weapons that are also spell tools. It's amazing how often people are just completely unprepared for it. Even more, it's also just a lot of fun because you explore themes a lot more. Mage Knights are a thing now! Woo!
Dark Souls 2 has the best gameplay. Very little, if any slowdown, better optimized controls, and very fun combat (sans phantom range on a handful of weapons. Easy patch out).
Dark Souls has the better world, and graphic design.
Demon Souls is the start, and is still an incredible title. I think the atmosphere in that is superb, on par with Dark Souls.
Dark Souls has the better world, and graphic design.
Demon Souls is the start, and is still an incredible title. I think the atmosphere in that is superb, on par with Dark Souls.
Is Soul Memory really a flaw? I mean, for PvP it's definitely a flaw, but for everything else it seems fine.Those were in Dark Souls (Stone Greatsword).
But yeah, Dark Souls 2 made a ton of improvements that often get ignored because of the game's flaws like Soul Memory.
Demons > Dark > Dark 2
It's amazing how much they nailed on the first try and how many good ideas they started with. A sympathetic boss, a player controlled boss, an NPC who kills other NPCs, puzzle/set piece bosses, etc.. The interconnected world of Dark Souls was cool but made the game a little less tense. In Demon's you generally were playing till you beat a boss or till you were dead, there were no areas of respite in between. The flask is the key genius idea in Dark Souls, I think.
Dark Souls 2 sort of combines the worst of both games. It's open world but really just long individual paths, but with fewer shortcuts than Demons Souls. You warp everywhere so you don't learn the lay of the land like you do in Dark Souls. Many areas are from Dark Souls are still completely clear in my mind, but I have a hard time even remembering some the areas from 2. I also don't like that the games get slower every iteration and now it takes souls to basically make the game more playable.
It's amazing how much they nailed on the first try and how many good ideas they started with. A sympathetic boss, a player controlled boss, an NPC who kills other NPCs, puzzle/set piece bosses, etc.. The interconnected world of Dark Souls was cool but made the game a little less tense. In Demon's you generally were playing till you beat a boss or till you were dead, there were no areas of respite in between. The flask is the key genius idea in Dark Souls, I think.
Dark Souls 2 sort of combines the worst of both games. It's open world but really just long individual paths, but with fewer shortcuts than Demons Souls. You warp everywhere so you don't learn the lay of the land like you do in Dark Souls. Many areas are from Dark Souls are still completely clear in my mind, but I have a hard time even remembering some the areas from 2. I also don't like that the games get slower every iteration and now it takes souls to basically make the game more playable.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Yup and Demons Souls is even more responsive.
It's not that undeniable if I deny it now is it?
Ok, I can maybe see the point for DS1 (though I don't agree), but Demon's? I recently went back to it to try and see where people are coming from and found it almost unplayable. Of course, part of that is probably the framerate - unstable 30 compared to rock-solid 60 makes a pretty huge difference in responsiveness.
If you're extremely efficient at progressing through the game you go can too low to the point where it's hard to find assistance or if you fail a lot you can go too far beyond other players. I had the former myself for sure. I guess this can happen with SL too though, but it feels weird being an appropriate SL and struggling to find summons.
Doing this made Dark Souls 2 feel slow to me. Very slow, in fact.
The very first thing that I noticed was how emaciated all the characters look in Dark Souls compared to the second. The very next thing I noticed was how much faster the entire game was, how much more dynamic the combat was as a result. Then I experienced the improved controls as I was now able to pull off every single kick, parry, roll, and jumping attack...things which for some reason were less consistent in the second game (no more double rolls after a single button press, every jumping attack on demand, the actual process of raising a shield being near instantaneous, etc). The next thing was how much more 'amateurish' the UI looked compared to the second game. Then how much emptier the game was, and how unstable the netcode was. How much faster the NPCs spoke (both in line reading speeds and in the lack of a delay between lines) and more dynamic they were as a whole, etc.
Not all good to be sure, but the controls were not the regression I expected them to be.
Before continuing this discussion, because that seems almost the exact opposite to my experience, are we talking about the PC version or the console version of each of the games here?
Yeah, true, that could also factor into why I have such a different experience over the individual games to some of you.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I'm speaking personally of course, since I'm not extending beyond my own playstyle. I play exclusively melee and you seemingly use magic exclusively, but Dark 1 is just incredibly responsive by comparison.It's not that undeniable if I deny it now is it?
Well due to the matchmaking system the SL was entirely the problem. It was impossible to find players in certain ranges and thus a lot of players were left out in the cold. Either the online is much improved or the new system is a lot better at matchmaking (could be both).
PC versions of both.
I beat Dark Souls on 360 at release.
Next, I played ~20 hrs of Dark Souls 2 (on PS3) and had to suffer through a combined 70 second load times to level up.
Giving up on that, I resumed Dark Souls 2 on PC and completed it.
Before starting New Game+ in 2, I started to replay Dark Souls 1 to experience the DLC content before the GFWL servers go kaput.
I also play a primarily melee playstyle.
Yeah, I wasn't just thinking of the amount of viable options though, but also things like general movement, and especially the 100 little convenience improvements they made. And as you say, stats are a lot more balanced and meaningful.
Of course, some of the increase in viable builds is also due to there simply being much more of everything. A lot more spells (more magic types even) -- I guess this is something which earns DS2 tons of points from me as I always play primarily magic using characters - and more equipment options (power stance, melee weapons that also cast spells).
10 seconds? your PC is slow
But yeah, I never really saw this as an issue. It has the additional advantage that you can't be invaded while leveling up.
It's probably closer to five seconds, but hey I'm trying to be nice here. I heard the loading is horrible on the consoles.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
It's not that undeniable if I deny it now is it?
Ok, I can maybe see the point for DS1 (though I don't agree), but Demon's? I recently went back to it to try and see where people are coming from and found it almost unplayable. Of course, part of that is probably the framerate - unstable 30 compared to rock-solid 60 makes a pretty huge difference in responsiveness.
30 fps is fine for me. Movement, in general, is notably quicker in DeS (recovery animations, attack animations, rolls, stamina drain, running).
The actual controls for all 3 are have been consistent, with Dark Souls being the only one with an issue (couldn't run and roll).
Hold up your shield.
Conceptually its fine and goes a long way towards addressing the issues with using just SL, in practice it could do with some tweaking (even something like switching it from souls gained to souls spent would go a long way towards addressing issues peope have with it as it would allow the "community" to decide on an arbitrary SM limit for PvP). Or maybe add a toggle so you can turn soul gain on and off, so you can co-op to your hearts content without it affecting SM, etc. Even with its problems I still think its better than SL.
Yeah, I wasn't just thinking of the amount of viable options though, but also things like general movement, and especially the 100 little convenience improvements they made. And as you say, stats are a lot more balanced and meaningful.
Of course, some of the increase in viable builds is also due to there simply being much more of everything. A lot more spells (more magic types even) -- I guess this is something which earns DS2 tons of points from me as I always play primarily magic using characters - and more equipment options (power stance, melee weapons that also cast spells).
10 seconds? your PC is slow
But yeah, I never really saw this as an issue. It has the additional advantage that you can't be invaded while leveling up.
I really am confused how the vast majority think Dark Souls 2 is vastly inferior. I have to wonder if a lot of this is the blowback from the "scandal" over the console versions and the "downgrade." Because among me and all my friends, all playing on PC, every one of them thinks DS2 is the best entry in the series because of many of the mechanical changes you guys are discussing as well as the larger scope of the world and the more diverse locales and color palette.
I guess another potential justification is just people's first experience with these mechanics always being their favorite but that's just nostalgia speaking in that case.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Are you saying all complaints to be made about DS2 are illegitimate?
I think the best solution maybe would just be to say over a certain threshold everyone is in the same pool. It would prevent people who have high level characters from not being able to find games. It would also make the end game more interesting and more of a "wild west" which could actually be very cool. Imagine playing New Game plus and having a level 300 characer or what ever invade your game. That actually could be fun.
But that's exactly what Dark Souls 2 does, isn't it?
Fried Food
Banned
demon's has to be best cause first, then DS, then DS2
From what I've played DS is much better than DS2
From what I've played DS is much better than DS2
Demons Souls art style, music, level design (Boletarian Palace is one of the best areas i ever meet in decades of gaming) and the opressive atmosphere is the best in the series. It has, also, the best bosses. Dark Souls 1 has better better gameplay mechanics and it´s amazing how everything is connected, but each area isn´t as good as Demons Souls. It has better graphics but the art style, like Dark Souls II, isn´t as good as Demons Souls. Dark Souls II doesn´t feel like a Souls game untill some time into the game. Mirror Knight is an incredible well designed boss, but there isn´t many good bosses like the previous games. But on the other hand, we have ton of them.
I would just say Demons Souls is a superior experience and Dark Souls I&II are at almost the same level.
So yeah. Demons > DS I/DS II.
But i can´t say they are "worse" games, they are all amazing and i can´t wait for more.
I would just say Demons Souls is a superior experience and Dark Souls I&II are at almost the same level.
So yeah. Demons > DS I/DS II.
But i can´t say they are "worse" games, they are all amazing and i can´t wait for more.
It's mainly too early to fit DS2 into things anyway; DS had a year or so of major patches to get where it is, along with the DLC release (and was more unpolished than DS2 on release). If From are listening (and given most of the current patch changes have made sense it seems so), then it's only a matter of time before the bigger things like the current Soul Memory and low agility roll-hitbox issues (which is where the vast majority of the "bad hitboxes" issues come from) will be tweaked, along with other stuff that shows up.
InternHertz
Member
I'd say I'm more in this camp:
Demon's > Dark = Dark 2
If only because Demon's was such a revelation for me, the feelings I got from it can't be matched by the two others, how ever good they might be.
Other than that I love them very very much and they all have something great in them.
Demon's > Dark = Dark 2
If only because Demon's was such a revelation for me, the feelings I got from it can't be matched by the two others, how ever good they might be.
Other than that I love them very very much and they all have something great in them.
Nice to see that the non posting silent majority is in line with my thinking, namely that Demons is arguably the high point of the series, clearly most people are divided on if it is the best or second best.
In my opinion it is hands down the best. The more focused approach of the game and the world itself? So good over Dark Souls, to say nothing of Dark Souls having crappy p2p lag for pvp.
And it completely lacks a nexus like area to regroup and plan your next strikes.
In my opinion it is hands down the best. The more focused approach of the game and the world itself? So good over Dark Souls, to say nothing of Dark Souls having crappy p2p lag for pvp.
And it completely lacks a nexus like area to regroup and plan your next strikes.
Haven't played DSII, but I prefer Demon's over Dark. I like Demon's central hub, the overall controls feel more responsive, and dungeon design is exquisite. Dark is terrific as well, however Demon's caught my attention the minute I started where I kinda dragged with Dark a bit, something couldn't motivate me enough to get farther in that game.
I based my ranking on how much time i devoted to the three. I feel that is a good way to judge how much I enjoyed the games.
I by far put more time into DaS2 than DaS1. With DeS i took a break for almost a year when I got frustrated so it's hard to rank it against the other two.
In terms of diffuculty i would say DeS>DaS1>DaS2, but in terms of how much fun I had with the game. DaS2>DeS>DaS1.
I by far put more time into DaS2 than DaS1. With DeS i took a break for almost a year when I got frustrated so it's hard to rank it against the other two.
In terms of diffuculty i would say DeS>DaS1>DaS2, but in terms of how much fun I had with the game. DaS2>DeS>DaS1.
Yeah, I think I agree with this. Souls spent or turning it off for a while would go a long way to refining it I think.
The issue with either of these is that twinking is and was a thing, and would just become more of a thing if this occurred.
I"m not sure actually. I heard people complaining about not getting matches at high soul level and I assumed that was because it continues to gate. If it does work this way, then I don't know what their problem is.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I still haven't finished Dark Souls or bought Dark Souls 2.
Demon's Souls was great, but I just never really got into Dark Souls. I didn't like the move to a more open world, something about the gamey, old school "levels" structure of Demon's Souls just felt a lot better to me. The bonfires were harder to work with, I felt like they were spaced out a lot further so it was more punishing when you died. Combine that with the fact I felt like Dark Souls was a whole lot more difficult and it makes for a less enjoyable experience.
I guess that is a bit weird though, because most people seem to find Demon's Souls harder for some reason.
Demon's Souls was great, but I just never really got into Dark Souls. I didn't like the move to a more open world, something about the gamey, old school "levels" structure of Demon's Souls just felt a lot better to me. The bonfires were harder to work with, I felt like they were spaced out a lot further so it was more punishing when you died. Combine that with the fact I felt like Dark Souls was a whole lot more difficult and it makes for a less enjoyable experience.
I guess that is a bit weird though, because most people seem to find Demon's Souls harder for some reason.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I never played Demon's (will change if it comes to PS Now) but I enjoy Dark Souls II more than Dark Souls, except in one area: almost all of Dark Souls II's bosses are so bad compared to DkS1.
Everything else was awesome.
Everything else was awesome.
Rickenslacker
Banned
IIRC after 12M+ there is no more separation. The problem with that being PvPers who want to fight at similar levels and not being forced to basically throw out all specialization as you keep dumping into more and more stats.
Mechanic and 'gameplay' aka what matters most, Demon's the best by faaaaaar. Then Dark then Dark 2.
They keep improving other things though like weapon variety and stuff. I guess the single player experience is improving in some areas. Demon's has better atmosphere but I guess the latter games have more area variety.
But rip Demon's and its speed ;_;
They keep improving other things though like weapon variety and stuff. I guess the single player experience is improving in some areas. Demon's has better atmosphere but I guess the latter games have more area variety.
But rip Demon's and its speed ;_;
Dark Souls II = Demon's Souls or > Demon's Souls depending on my mood.
I'd say it's Dark Souls II > Demon's Souls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dark Souls overall.
Dark Souls II's only issues come from the hitboxes. Area variety, boss design visually and funwise, and overall systems for progression and healing and magic just trump Dark so hard. It's also a much less inconvenient game without being easier, which is fine. Demon's is probably still the best overall, but I think I'll play Dark Souls II more often.
I'd say it's Dark Souls II > Demon's Souls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dark Souls overall.
Dark Souls II's only issues come from the hitboxes. Area variety, boss design visually and funwise, and overall systems for progression and healing and magic just trump Dark so hard. It's also a much less inconvenient game without being easier, which is fine. Demon's is probably still the best overall, but I think I'll play Dark Souls II more often.
DaS2 isn't balanced better than DaS1 currently is, but I think it has a better framework in place. I hope they address some of the common complaints with patches. DS got a few patches that really improved PVP so I expect the same here. As it is, I'd say it's still more balanced than DaS1 was at launch, so I'm not too worried.
Like you said there's so much more of everything. It's not surprising that certain combinations of things are just too good or just suck. They fixed elemental damage in DS1 so there's hope.
For me it's way more fun to be a caster in DaS2 than the other games. They made a lot of improvements there and there's a lot more variety to the spells. But the risk / reward difference of using a mage vs playing melee is just too much. It's too easy to diminish some of the best boss fights in the game with magic (in all 3 games). But it's still really fun to build a mage and make a character that is perfectly specced into the magic you want to cast.
Dark Souls 2 is by far the most mechanically well-balanced, so some explanation might be good here?
thewhitehawk
Member
Not surprising that the results seem to point that most of the community considers Demon's as good as Dark Souls 1, however, part of my skeptical said thinks that Dark may have a bigger share of the votes because it was played and owned by many more people and most consider Dark 2 inferior to it, myself included.
Regardless of petty discussion over which is the best game of the series, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
Regardless of petty discussion over which is the best game of the series, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
eot
Banned
Do you want to elaborate on that?
What I don't like about DkS2 (mechanically):
Enemy tracking
Agility stat and the unresponsive feeling associated with it
Phantom range on attacks
Reduced moveset diversity
Enemies that don't follow the game rules
Those aren't the main reason why I like the game less, but I don't think it's better mechanically.
theMrCravens
Member
Gameplay differences for the 3 games are overrated.
Dark 2 is the better one because of the sheer amount of content.
Dark 2 is the better one because of the sheer amount of content.
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