SOULS series - Best to worst?
- Thread starter akaoni
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IAmRandom31
Banned
I wonder if all of these so called Demons Souls players are actually 360 owners in disguise who never got the pleasure of owning the game? Maybe we should have an option for
Never Played Demons = Dark > Dark 2
Never Played Demons = Dark 2 > Dark
Yes, let the truth be known
killatopak
Member
I like Demon's lore better and I feel that DkS2 lacks something to be better than DkS1.
I wonder if all of these so called Demons Souls players are actually 360 owners in disguise who never got the pleasure of owning the game? Maybe we should have an option for
Never Played Demons = Dark > Dark 2
Never Played Demons = Dark 2 > Dark
Yes, let the truth be known
Yeah I'm quite certain that there is correlation there, DS1 was certainly the first for many more people than DeSo was, I imagine. Griefe.exe has espoused elsewhere that he feels DS2 is much closer to DeSo than it is to DS1. I think this is spot on, and would also contribute to why so many perceive DS1 so highly relative to its sequel, especially if DeSo wasn't their first game, or if they didn't enjoy DeSo.
Lol.
Krusenstern
Banned
Won't vote but it's not surprising to see that overall Dark Souls 2 is liked the least. Even judging from videos and streams and game just doesn't have the "soul" of the previous games.
Also not surprising that Dark Souls is liked the most.
They shouldn't have voted. That's why I didn't vote either (haven't played DS2).
Also not surprising that Dark Souls is liked the most.
I wonder if all of these so called Demons Souls players are actually 360 owners in disguise who never got the pleasure of owning the game? Maybe we should have an option for
Never Played Demons = Dark > Dark 2
Never Played Demons = Dark 2 > Dark
Yes, let the truth be known
They shouldn't have voted. That's why I didn't vote either (haven't played DS2).
I may be an outlier here not because I like Demons the best, but for different reasons.
I was never quite keen on boss fights. Never have been. Taking that really out of the equation...where does that leave me?
It leaves me with Demon's. Demon's had harder "levels." The tension, atmosphere, and the "all the way back" mechanic really made this stand out. Dark has better interconnective worlds, which was awesome, but it just wasn't AS hard as Demon's. Dark 2...well...with so many bonfires...a lot of this was lost.
Dark 2 is still a great game...top 5 of the generation...but I think the directors lost sight of WHY Dark and Demon's were so magnificent. Have one secret passage? We have 2! And goodness...so many boss fights....I can name only a handful of boss fights from 2 because they were so many..Demon's and to a slightly lesser extent...Dark...I can name almost all of them. They were fewer and far more meaningful. Dark 2...well...they just threw a lot in there.
Also, Demon's seemed to have a darker more mature story line in it as well. It was all so mysterious. Granted the "mystery" of Demon's may be more meta (meta seems to be a buzz word going around in pop culture nowadays) as it was the first...and I pre-ordered it on a few importers recommendations...but that was it.
So yeah Demons, slightly better than Dark...both better than 2...by a click..
I was never quite keen on boss fights. Never have been. Taking that really out of the equation...where does that leave me?
It leaves me with Demon's. Demon's had harder "levels." The tension, atmosphere, and the "all the way back" mechanic really made this stand out. Dark has better interconnective worlds, which was awesome, but it just wasn't AS hard as Demon's. Dark 2...well...with so many bonfires...a lot of this was lost.
Dark 2 is still a great game...top 5 of the generation...but I think the directors lost sight of WHY Dark and Demon's were so magnificent. Have one secret passage? We have 2! And goodness...so many boss fights....I can name only a handful of boss fights from 2 because they were so many..Demon's and to a slightly lesser extent...Dark...I can name almost all of them. They were fewer and far more meaningful. Dark 2...well...they just threw a lot in there.
Also, Demon's seemed to have a darker more mature story line in it as well. It was all so mysterious. Granted the "mystery" of Demon's may be more meta (meta seems to be a buzz word going around in pop culture nowadays) as it was the first...and I pre-ordered it on a few importers recommendations...but that was it.
So yeah Demons, slightly better than Dark...both better than 2...by a click..
Let it be said that I played Dark Souls: PTDE with Durante's mod after From had already released a series of patches.
I enjoyed Blighttown. It was definitely the confusing mishmash of crossways, ladders, and jumps as the developers intended. I never got the slowdowns other people did. I also didn't mind Crystal Caves and Tomb of Giants. I can understand if some people weren't too hot on the forced gimmicks From tried to incorporate to introduce a wrinkle in the end-game dungeons.
The only place I did not like was Lost Izalith. Too much empty space (Demon Ruins, more so) and re-used enemies (big no-no). Dragon butts were frustrating to fight (can't imagine pre-patch). Once you get past the lava, I felt Lost Izalith was fine until the boss. -.-
If I had played Dark Souls on launch day, my experiences could very well be different.
I enjoyed Blighttown. It was definitely the confusing mishmash of crossways, ladders, and jumps as the developers intended. I never got the slowdowns other people did. I also didn't mind Crystal Caves and Tomb of Giants. I can understand if some people weren't too hot on the forced gimmicks From tried to incorporate to introduce a wrinkle in the end-game dungeons.
The only place I did not like was Lost Izalith. Too much empty space (Demon Ruins, more so) and re-used enemies (big no-no). Dragon butts were frustrating to fight (can't imagine pre-patch). Once you get past the lava, I felt Lost Izalith was fine until the boss. -.-
If I had played Dark Souls on launch day, my experiences could very well be different.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I like 2 the most because of the added focus on weapon degradation, the convenience of using multiple souls at once, 4 rings, the better jumping controls, and everything just feels tighter and faster. The levels and enemies aren't as memorable as the other two games, but I like playing Dark 2 the most. It seems more like an expansion pack than anything, but it's a superb expansion pack.
Demon's > Dark > Dark 2
Demon's world. Oh man. Miyazaki take me back there. I love it so much.
Dark 2, what happened? That world is patchwork trash, with only a few glimmers of its predecessor's greatness. Where's the overall vision? Where's the theme? There's just no cohesion at all. Ugh.
Demon's world. Oh man. Miyazaki take me back there. I love it so much.
Dark 2, what happened? That world is patchwork trash, with only a few glimmers of its predecessor's greatness. Where's the overall vision? Where's the theme? There's just no cohesion at all. Ugh.
Eh barely, hopefully more people with good taste weigh in. If Dark didn't have busted p2p lag pvp and a far less functional dead/alive system compared to Demons, you could just chalk it up to which model of progression you preferred, but those two things are pretty big issues for a Souls game.
Lasthope106
Member
Demon's Souls had it's moments, but Dark Souls is the superior game. Till this day, I'm still in awe of the level design. From what I've played of Dark Souls 2, the first one still has the lead. However, all 3 games are incredible.
I don't think it's fatigue for me at least, Dark 2 just lacks great levels and has virtually no great bosses. It also lacks structure for endgame online play.
?
Dark Souls 2 has the (all IMHO of course):
Worst world
Worst bosses
Worst story/lore
Worst weapons
Worst level design
Worst hitboxes (seriously what the hell)
Multiplayer is the only area it isn't the worst. And being able to consume multiple souls at once. That rocks.
encephalon
Member
I've just beat Dark Souls after Demon's Souls. Honestly, I think Dark Souls is a great game and the bonfires/interconnected world was a great idea. A lot of the game was fun and memorable. But I think Demon's Souls is a little better. Overall it's the more challenging game, in a good way. I agree with those who said the latter half of Dark Souls wasn't as good, at least in comparison to Demon's Souls.
Maybe I'll play Dark Souls 2 later this year or next, but I'm kind of waiting to see if some enhanced current generation console ver. is released.
Maybe I'll play Dark Souls 2 later this year or next, but I'm kind of waiting to see if some enhanced current generation console ver. is released.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Demon's > Dark > Dark 2
Kinda sad how the series has become worse with every title, but they are still all great games.
I've been replaying Demon's, and man I love that game.
Kinda sad how the series has become worse with every title, but they are still all great games.
I've been replaying Demon's, and man I love that game.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Dark > Demon's > Dark 2.
They're all pretty close to each other, though.
They're all pretty close to each other, though.
I choose Demon's Souls = Dark Souls > Dark Souls for various of reasons. First, I feel that despite the difference between Demon's and Dark on technical aspect, and design, both games stands on their own. They are similar, yet feels different because of the how both of them of designed. Demon's have stronger thematic coherence and stronger atmosphere due to how the area designed as linear-hub level, and how the most of the boss designed as puzzle rather combat. Puzzle bosses might make Demon's feels lesser in combat, because the bosses will be easy when you know their trick. But it makes their first encounter feels more memorable, especially when compared to straight up combat bosses in Dark 2. The game is built around the Nexus, the safe place where you can rest in demon ridden world, where there resides various kind people with various background whom you met in your journey through Boletaria. In Demon's we haveinventory weight and Maiden in Black that really enforces this design. The former strenghten such atmosphere of the Nexus where one usually have to decides what they should bring for their next perilous journey(s).
Meanwhile Dark Souls does the exact different thing. It is an open world game where each areas interconnected to each other. Each areas seems carefully designed as the transition between them feel natural, and the interconnected area fits together which makes Lordran feels like an actual place, which is rare thing to be achieved by world such as Lordran that have diversity of landscape. But for me it come at the cost of scale and not as solid atmosphere as Demon's. And Dark also does the next thing almost in exact opposite of Demon's, whereas what you do is one perilous journey where you occasionally rest along the way by the bonfires (the reason why Dark's Japanese cover a masterpiece is because it capture this feels). You meet NPC on your journey, as they'll also move constantly within Lordran. Indeed there are NPCs that took refugee somewhere in Lordran, but even most of them will move as you progressed your story. This is why Dark trumps over Demon's: Their NPCs actively moves and changed as your progressed the story, making the story, the world, and the characters feels organic. And as strange as it is sounds, the lack of inventory weight in Dark tells you that you don't have to mind it in the first place. Your journey is one perilous journey with no resting place, except the small one . But even so, they are not safe haven. As an undead, choosen undead at that, you are destined to forever wonder the earth until you fulfill your destiny as an undead (this might be why do you denied in Ariamis, place where the exiled took refugee).
Both Demon's and Dark clearly shows that they carefully designed within coherent themes that cover both gameplay, story, and the world. As such, this is the exact reason why I feel Dark 2 is the lesser of the three. It incorporates elements from both of the world, but it doesn't result in something original, but rather an aimlessness, a confusion. Many of the areas designed like not actual place this time, but rather a video game level. To be fair, I must confessed that I've yet that far into game. But after what I'm see in Forest of the Fallen Giants, Heide's Flame Tower, No Man's Wharf, and The Lost Bastille, I doubt it that my opinion will change. Well, in technical aspect, Dark 2 easily trumps over the previous two games, but that what I expect mainly from Souls games.
Meanwhile Dark Souls does the exact different thing. It is an open world game where each areas interconnected to each other. Each areas seems carefully designed as the transition between them feel natural, and the interconnected area fits together which makes Lordran feels like an actual place, which is rare thing to be achieved by world such as Lordran that have diversity of landscape. But for me it come at the cost of scale and not as solid atmosphere as Demon's. And Dark also does the next thing almost in exact opposite of Demon's, whereas what you do is one perilous journey where you occasionally rest along the way by the bonfires (the reason why Dark's Japanese cover a masterpiece is because it capture this feels). You meet NPC on your journey, as they'll also move constantly within Lordran. Indeed there are NPCs that took refugee somewhere in Lordran, but even most of them will move as you progressed your story. This is why Dark trumps over Demon's: Their NPCs actively moves and changed as your progressed the story, making the story, the world, and the characters feels organic. And as strange as it is sounds, the lack of inventory weight in Dark tells you that you don't have to mind it in the first place. Your journey is one perilous journey with no resting place, except the small one . But even so, they are not safe haven. As an undead, choosen undead at that, you are destined to forever wonder the earth until you fulfill your destiny as an undead (this might be why do you denied in Ariamis, place where the exiled took refugee).
Both Demon's and Dark clearly shows that they carefully designed within coherent themes that cover both gameplay, story, and the world. As such, this is the exact reason why I feel Dark 2 is the lesser of the three. It incorporates elements from both of the world, but it doesn't result in something original, but rather an aimlessness, a confusion. Many of the areas designed like not actual place this time, but rather a video game level. To be fair, I must confessed that I've yet that far into game. But after what I'm see in Forest of the Fallen Giants, Heide's Flame Tower, No Man's Wharf, and The Lost Bastille, I doubt it that my opinion will change. Well, in technical aspect, Dark 2 easily trumps over the previous two games, but that what I expect mainly from Souls games.
Agree with everything here with the exception of weapons which i view the faster more Demon's Souls style speed increase to them as a positive change. Now PVP i see as horrible because
SM: Grinding for orbs or buying them increases it
No full invasion orb.
Almost everyone i've talked too said they got invaded once or not at all on NG when they game was brand new..and this is a souls game mind you, also locking NG+ players into their own section. It sounds like balance then you realize people just use ascetics to up the NG of that area to get the items they want making the bracketing useless.
Having to play until mid game to join a red covenant.
Forcing arena battles on a large portion of the community
Thanks to SM the people who preferred to stay within a bracket like the last two games get fucked over and have to put up with level 200+ people on a regular basis.
Spices while at first glance looks like an improvement actually kills requirements thanks to the ability to drop the requirement down to 1 affecting the restrictions they put in the first place.
Mob extinction is terrible and not only does it make the world look devoid of life it makes ganking much easier.
The confusion of having Dark Soul 1 poise offline and a different poise mechanic for online play. If you're going to go with Demon's Souls Combat stick with it, don't expect everyone who got used to Dark Souls pvp or never played Demon's Souls to take the change lightly and have them second guessing if poise is "broken"
Honestly i don't see how anyone can say the pvp is better. Even with broke mechanics like backstab running there were proper counters to those glitches. Not to mention toggle escaping while a glitch allowed for no poise pvpers to actually go toe and toe with poise builds and roll out of attacks.
In Dark Souls 2 you have stunlocks where if you aren't wearing ridiculous unintuitive op rings like oldsun and thorns to prevent what a toggle escape glitch did better in the first place, you can end up in a stuck lock until death.
Ok got everything off my chest.. even if it doesn't live up to the others it's still a good game it just feels really off.
Dark 1 and Demon's are equal, Dark 2 is worse than both of them.
I put about 400 hours into Demon's, 3000 hours into Dark 1 and 300 hours into Dark 2. I played Dark 1 before Demon's and never played Demon's in its prime. Dark 2 was disappointing to me, I should still be playing it obsessively, but the PvE is boring, and the PvP is broken. Really disappointed with it, had a great time with the first playthrough of Dark 2, but I saw the shortcomings way back in the Network Test when I played that for 4 hours (played both sessions). PC version is fantastic though, really impressed with it, just wish the gameplay and balance was there for me to enjoy the 60 FPS and excellent resolution.
I look forward to the next Miyazaki Souls game, so the World might be mended.
I put about 400 hours into Demon's, 3000 hours into Dark 1 and 300 hours into Dark 2. I played Dark 1 before Demon's and never played Demon's in its prime. Dark 2 was disappointing to me, I should still be playing it obsessively, but the PvE is boring, and the PvP is broken. Really disappointed with it, had a great time with the first playthrough of Dark 2, but I saw the shortcomings way back in the Network Test when I played that for 4 hours (played both sessions). PC version is fantastic though, really impressed with it, just wish the gameplay and balance was there for me to enjoy the 60 FPS and excellent resolution.
I look forward to the next Miyazaki Souls game, so the World might be mended.
I completely, vehemently disagree on all points, and said so in an earlier post, so rather than retype it all, I'm just gonna copy and paste it
Bummer this'll be at the bottom of the page, but oh well. This thread has almost run its course anyway.
I'm amazed at all the DS1 > DS2 posts, not that they exist, but that they're so many of them. I do not agree at all. I'd love to know for whom DS1 was their first Souls' experience. I bet there is correlation there. As my list will prove!
1. Demon's
2. DS2
3. DS1
Demon's gets the nod a little because of nostalgia, a little bit because of its novelty (playing an imported non-localised version for the first time was all kinds of amazing) and lot because Dragon Bone Smasher/Keel > every other Souls' weapon. Also Stockpile Thomas and Yurt > your favourite NPCs. I prefer the Nexus to what DS did. Majula is a move in the right direction, a nice balance of the two prior games' level select methods. Lastly, Latria and all of world 5 are in a league of their own in terms of environments and nasty enemies. Each is the perfect embodiment of dread and foreboding.
I've adored DS2 almost from go to woah. I'd say its opening hour or two, if you persevere with FoFG (rather than head to Heide's, No Man's Wharf etc) is worse than DS1's Undead Burg. However, I enjoyed the rest of the areas more than the equivalent areas in DS1 (with exception given to Sen's and conceptually at least, Anor Londo). Even Amana, lol. A place as simple as Shaded Woods makes for a delightfully serene change of pace, for which I don't buy the hilarious comment that it has 'N64 draw distance', which is miles off point. The Gutter and Black Gulch are also quintessential Souls' areas, that play wonderfully with your need for big weapons or big spells to progress, perhaps upsetting your acclimatised play style in their own peculiar ways.
While it's still far from perfect, I also have enjoyed the PvP and covenants of DS2 vastly more than DS1. Bellbros and those annoying Ratbros are terrific additions that I'd really love to see fleshed out in future games. Also, more PvP boss battles, please From: Royal Rat Authority could have been even more annoying!
DS1's inter connectedness is a delight, unmatched by any other game I've ever played. That simply looking up and around with binocs could cause such delight speaks volumes to the world built in Lordran. And seeing Anor Londo for the first time, trying to conceptualise why such a magnificent metropolis exists high above like that is awe inspiring. Shame we only got to experience such a tiny amount of it.
I've seen comments around the series' bosses and it is clear to me that depending on what your interpretation of what a 'boss' is, both generally and in this series, dictates how favourably each instalments versions were received.
They're an interesting facet of these games, as they serve a different role in each game. In Demon's, bosses are gate keepers, they clearly punctuate the end of a level, in the way a Bobomb or big Koopa or even Bowser marks the end of a world in Mario (the most common video game trope since day-0: defeat a boss, earn a new power or level up). In DS1, they moved away from that a little, partly for lore reasons, partly due to the way the world was built. Then in DS2, they got even further away from that, with bosses cropping up everywhere, some for no more reason than to flesh the lore out, others to simply block you from the next bonfire. Very rarely are the bosses worth killing explicitly for their souls (Freja and the Skeleton Lords the most notable exceptions). But it seems some of the player base still expects bosses to be of the more traditional variety. I think there is room for all types, and it'll be interesting to see the progression in future games of puzzle bosses (Dragon God and Chariot are both wonderful enemies), DPS race bosses (Maneater, Gargoyles), crowd control bosses (which are probably my favourite - heaven help you if you kill the pinwheel Skeleton Lord first!) and so on.
My take is merely that I've enjoyed each one equally. I love the spectacle of Gaping Dragon, Tower Knight, Nito and Moonlight Butterfly, regardless of their lack of difficulty. I enjoy the subtle challenges of The Dragon God and Chariot. And the out and out difficulty - and satisfaction of defeating - of Ornstein and Smough or dual Pursuers, is unparalleled.
The incidental, incremental changes that people moan about are neither here nor there. You're moaning about the 1%'s, when poise, guard break and whether 22 or 25 ADP is the optimal (I don't say that to dismiss them, they're very relevant and poignant. However I can love Street Fighter 4 without giving a shit for frames, footsies, hit exchanges and so on. The same can be said for this series and the way it has handled and made changes to the underlying mechanics). They are outweighed by the improvements in so many other areas to render than almost moot observations.
All told, the 'perfect' Souls' game probably exists with elements from each game combined. All three are in a league of their own relative to all other 'Big Games' that came out in the last generation, standing heads and shoulders above the pack. The fact that three games have come out in such short time and only grown the fan base, and not alienated large swathes of it, speaks volumes to their quality.
Bring on whatever is next, I can't wait.
I ranked them DS1 = DS2 > Demon's, and yeah, my first full Souls experience was DS1. I played a number of hours of Demon's Souls when it was released and stopped. Eventually committed to DS1. So there is totally a nostalgia factor in my choice. I put DS1 = DS2 because one hits where the other misses, and vice versa.
Either way, yeah, all these games are fantastic and I'm looking forward to the future. In the meantime, however, it seems that I really should give Demon's Souls more of a chance than I have before, because it seems like the overwhelming winner.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Don't you dare say this.....I need that DeS speed to come back. Project Beast please.
Thats still god damn amazing, considering Demons Souls was a PS3 exclusive. I would never have guessed DeS being the best was such a popular opinion.
Maybe thats why I can still get invasions in 4-1......5 years later lol
Another thing that I think Demons did better than the rest was that it made being alive or dead/hollowed meaningful. Being hollow meant more or less nothing in Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2 goes back towards Demon Souls in making it have a noticeable impact again (as well as tying it into a few more spells and weapons)
Peoples mileage may vary so anything subjective is fair game, but this one strikes me as a little odd, DS2 has more or less all the weapons from DS1 with extra weapons on top and improved and expanded movesets and mechanics for all of them. Could you clarify what you mean when you say it has the worst weapons?
Quite simply not true Majula->Heides (which you can complete in literally five minutes)->Huntsman->Undead Purgatory. Thats pretty far away from "mid game".
Peoples mileage may vary so anything subjective is fair game, but this one strikes me as a little odd, DS2 has more or less all the weapons from DS1 with extra weapons on top and improved and expanded movesets and mechanics for all of them. Could you clarify what you mean when you say it has the worst weapons?
Quite simply not true Majula->Heides (which you can complete in literally five minutes)->Huntsman->Undead Purgatory. Thats pretty far away from "mid game".
JimmyRustler
Member
Best = Dark Souls
2nd = Demons Souls
Worst = Dark Souls 2
The reason I found Dark Souls to be best is probably because it was the first Souls game I played. It was very hard for Demons Souls to keep up for me simply because I didn't have this learning curve any more as at that time I already knew have to play these games. Overall I did like the bosses from Dark Souls more and the also was more appealed to the interconnectivity of the world than the separate levels in Demons. So I guess that even if I've played Demons first I would have ended up liking Dark Souls better.
Dark Souls to being by far the worst one was an obvious pick. It only hooked me during a small period when the levels started to open up. But overall the level design wasn't really good, most bosses way to easy and the graphics a bloody mess. At the end I just rushed through and was glad when I finished the game. I don't see myself ever going back.
2nd = Demons Souls
Worst = Dark Souls 2
The reason I found Dark Souls to be best is probably because it was the first Souls game I played. It was very hard for Demons Souls to keep up for me simply because I didn't have this learning curve any more as at that time I already knew have to play these games. Overall I did like the bosses from Dark Souls more and the also was more appealed to the interconnectivity of the world than the separate levels in Demons. So I guess that even if I've played Demons first I would have ended up liking Dark Souls better.
Dark Souls to being by far the worst one was an obvious pick. It only hooked me during a small period when the levels started to open up. But overall the level design wasn't really good, most bosses way to easy and the graphics a bloody mess. At the end I just rushed through and was glad when I finished the game. I don't see myself ever going back.
Brerlappin
Member
Also, Dark 2 deserves to be listed as the worst title in the series for the simple fact that it doesnt have one solitary, single memorable boss introduction movie.
Awesome intros of note:
Demons
Fools Idol
Penetrator
False King
Tower Knight
Flamelurker
Astraea & Garl
Dark
Gaping Dragon
The chuckle brothers
Seath
Gravelord Nito
Sif
Artorias
Manus
Queelag
Dark 2
umm..the guy who looks like Garl Vinland
Awesome intros of note:
Demons
Fools Idol
Penetrator
False King
Tower Knight
Flamelurker
Astraea & Garl
Dark
Gaping Dragon
The chuckle brothers
Seath
Gravelord Nito
Sif
Artorias
Manus
Queelag
Dark 2
umm..the guy who looks like Garl Vinland
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Demon's Souls=Dark Souls > Dark Souls 2
I loved the individual level design of Demon's Souls the best. Its first area was still one of my favorite video game experiences. Especially getting it day one and seeing all the other people's spirits running by and dying. Like being tossed into the fire especailly since the tutorial ends with you getting (most likely) getting killed by the Vanguard.. Also, I wish the others had kept being turned into a spirit, rather than hollowing. I spend most of my time dead in these games, so it's much better seeing a somewhat transparent character than the hideous zombified hollow form.
Dark Souls never had that tossed into the fire feeling. The undead asylum was too long, and you ended up in the firelink shrine. You kinda had to find Undead Burg (still an awesome area), instead of just being thrown into it like the Boletarian Palace. But the large number of areas and the interconnectedness of everything really made up for it. Demon's Soul's hub was great for what it was, and it worked for it (even though the crumbled pillar still haunts me), but Dark Soul's world seemed more real. Plus I loved finding a random cave or doorway and ending up in a completely new area. One you're not even sure you're ready for.
Then comes Dark Souls 2. It seemed like it was trying to be both games, with a large hub and ease bouncing between areas, but still with a connected world. It failed at the second part. It was just a bunch of tentacles extending out randomly from the hub. It might as well have used Demon's Souls method. It would have saved us from earthen peak having an elevator that leads up to Iron keep.
I loved the individual level design of Demon's Souls the best. Its first area was still one of my favorite video game experiences. Especially getting it day one and seeing all the other people's spirits running by and dying. Like being tossed into the fire especailly since the tutorial ends with you getting (most likely) getting killed by the Vanguard.. Also, I wish the others had kept being turned into a spirit, rather than hollowing. I spend most of my time dead in these games, so it's much better seeing a somewhat transparent character than the hideous zombified hollow form.
Dark Souls never had that tossed into the fire feeling. The undead asylum was too long, and you ended up in the firelink shrine. You kinda had to find Undead Burg (still an awesome area), instead of just being thrown into it like the Boletarian Palace. But the large number of areas and the interconnectedness of everything really made up for it. Demon's Soul's hub was great for what it was, and it worked for it (even though the crumbled pillar still haunts me), but Dark Soul's world seemed more real. Plus I loved finding a random cave or doorway and ending up in a completely new area. One you're not even sure you're ready for.
Then comes Dark Souls 2. It seemed like it was trying to be both games, with a large hub and ease bouncing between areas, but still with a connected world. It failed at the second part. It was just a bunch of tentacles extending out randomly from the hub. It might as well have used Demon's Souls method. It would have saved us from earthen peak having an elevator that leads up to Iron keep.
The Xtortionist
Member
I enjoyed a handful.
-The Rotten - Seeing it try and fail to assemble the statue says a lot without saying much at all
-Lost Sinner - The bug boring into her head was pretty memorable I thought
-Pursuer - 'Nuff said
-Velstadt - Triggered my nostalgia for Garl Vinland
While it probably didn't have much of an effect on Souls veterans, I think The Last Giant's intro would be pretty intimidating for newcomers.
But yeah, game is light on boss intros overall. There's plenty of badass bosses that could have intros, but simply don't. Doesn't really bother me though...the less cutscenes, the better imo.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Demons Souls speed >> Dark Souls >> DkS2
The games have gotten slower and more sluggish as a result.
We want it to be faster like it was in DeS.
My vote was for Demon = Dark > Dark 2.
Demon's Souls:
Dark Souls:
Dark Souls 2:
Demon's Souls:
- Great dark, coherent atmosphere.
- The best music in the series.
- Some of the best Bosses in the series.
- Some of the best stunningly tense levels in the series.
- I don't like the weird delay in the roll.
- I don't like many of the Bosses being super easy puzzles.
- I don't like the fact that there's barely any gear to choose from.
- I don't like the completely linear (and relatively short) levels.
- I don't like having to kill a boss to return human.
- I don't like the healing mechanic.
- I don't like the Mana mechanic.
- Shittier animations.
Dark Souls:
- Amazing, interconnected level design, for the first 60% of the game.
- A ton of loot and gear, and secrets.
- Many great bosses.
- I love the bonfire mechanic.
- I love the Estus Flask mechanic.
- I love the idea of Covenants.
- I don't like the sketchy online.
- I don't like the less oppressive and more fantasy art direction.
- I don't like the Humanity mechanic.
- It doesn't reach the highs of Demon's, though it is more consistent.
Dark Souls 2:
- I love the human effigy mechanic.
- I love the working Online.
- I love the amount of gear and content in general.
- I love the incresed clarity in weapon and armor improvement.
- I like that there's more dropping of rare titanites, so you're more willing to experiment.
- A competent PC port, finally.
- Many elements feel not refined, from the bosses to the levels, most things have a "quantity over quality" feel to them.
- The levels are barely interconnected, making the instant warping almost necessary, rendering the world as less solid.
- Soul Memory sucks ass.
- Covenants aren't really interesting, aside from a couple.
OP: could you please change my vote to this: "Demon's = Dark = Dark 2"? Or count it as such at least? I somehow accidentally pressed the wrong button and voted Demon's Souls = Dark Souls > Dark Souls II" because of not seeing the ">" at the end right before clicking. The above quote represents my view on all three games word for word, as does B-Genius' post:
eot
Banned
Black Knight Ultra Greatsword has a 100% generic Ultra Greatsword moveset now. How is that an improvement? Large/Great Club have lost all the unique moves they had in DkS. Almost every weapon within the same class has the generic moveset of that class. You can dual wield now, whoopdedo. I'll take more diverse weapons over that.
TatteredHat
Member
I feel that both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are on the same level, but Dark Souls 2 is a bit of a let-down in terms of level design and the some of the systems like Soul Memory are poorly thought out.
The Xtortionist
Member
I think DS2's approach to world design is pretty misunderstood. Save for a few occasional branches like Shaded Woods' Ruined Fork Road, it's simply refining the Demon's approach to design by eliminating load screens when leaving the hub. It isn't trying to be Dark and failing. It's trying to be a more streamlined version of Demon's.
Earthen Peak to Iron Keep is strange but in a game so vast, I can forgive it.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Except you transition from one area to the next ONCE. After you get to the bonfire, you're not really going to backtrack to the previous area again. You're going to warp. Which has loading screens.
The Xtortionist
Member
You're correct. Though the fact that Dark 2's Demon's style world is being directly compared to Dark 1's shows that the changes are pretty significant, no? Or at least significant enough to influence perceptions. I've seen multiple posts since Dark 2's release saying that it doesn't do the interconnected world thing as well as Dark 1, and well...no shit. It isn't trying to be interconnected, it just looks that way on the surface. Was it wrong for From to disguise a branching, Demon's style world as an interconnected, Dark-style world? Maybe...I wonder how fans would react if Majula was a Nexus-style hub, forced warping (even on the first visit) and all.
Demon's
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The game feels pretty rough now, menus and stuff so ugly hard to look back after Dark, considering how much time you'll spend in menus. Visuals don't hold up to Dark games, level design is relatively simplistic too and without the interconnected world doesn't feel as good. Duh, obviously because this is the first iteration and all that. Controls though feel more responsive, I find the game easiest of the three too now. Overall the game feels consistent throughout for the most part and with right length
verdict: it's superseded now, I think it's not very worthwhile or fair to directly compare it with its newer peers. It would feel dated and rough.
Dark 1
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First half of the game is incredible stuff specially the very first hours, then it just goes downhill and drags for way too long. I like the lore and story way more than Demon's. Visually it looks way better too.
The changes to game mechanics and bonfires are the best here. Greatest boss battles. They could cut a little and the game would be perfect but as it is it's still...
verdict: mostly great.
Dark 2
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First half the game, I found it rather boring. The later areas were way better than Dark1 on the other hand. The game looks great but controls and hit boxes are sloppy here and there. There are many locations you could entirely cut and the game would be better without them, overall it's pretty inconsistent. There are many more bosses but a lot of them are just poor, some of them could pass as regular encounters even. Bonfire placements are odd at times, too many fake walls everywhere it gets annoying. Things like lockstones were cool though. The way the open world map is now, it might as well be a hub and you warp in, it didn't bother me much but Dark1 was way cooler. The game is the best of the three in explaining things to new players and it's very clear where you should go and what you should do and there is no need for guides and stuff, whether that's good or not depends on the player I guess. I liked that.
verdict: quantity over quality but there is plenty good in there still.
If I had to rank dark1>dark2>demon but that doesn't mean one is terrible or anything.
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The game feels pretty rough now, menus and stuff so ugly hard to look back after Dark, considering how much time you'll spend in menus. Visuals don't hold up to Dark games, level design is relatively simplistic too and without the interconnected world doesn't feel as good. Duh, obviously because this is the first iteration and all that. Controls though feel more responsive, I find the game easiest of the three too now. Overall the game feels consistent throughout for the most part and with right length
verdict: it's superseded now, I think it's not very worthwhile or fair to directly compare it with its newer peers. It would feel dated and rough.
Dark 1
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First half of the game is incredible stuff specially the very first hours, then it just goes downhill and drags for way too long. I like the lore and story way more than Demon's. Visually it looks way better too.
The changes to game mechanics and bonfires are the best here. Greatest boss battles. They could cut a little and the game would be perfect but as it is it's still...
verdict: mostly great.
Dark 2
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First half the game, I found it rather boring. The later areas were way better than Dark1 on the other hand. The game looks great but controls and hit boxes are sloppy here and there. There are many locations you could entirely cut and the game would be better without them, overall it's pretty inconsistent. There are many more bosses but a lot of them are just poor, some of them could pass as regular encounters even. Bonfire placements are odd at times, too many fake walls everywhere it gets annoying. Things like lockstones were cool though. The way the open world map is now, it might as well be a hub and you warp in, it didn't bother me much but Dark1 was way cooler. The game is the best of the three in explaining things to new players and it's very clear where you should go and what you should do and there is no need for guides and stuff, whether that's good or not depends on the player I guess. I liked that.
verdict: quantity over quality but there is plenty good in there still.
If I had to rank dark1>dark2>demon but that doesn't mean one is terrible or anything.
Nah, man. There are very few unique movesets in the game and most weapons within one class share the exact same set of attacks. Everything feels super samey and kinda lazily designed to be honest.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I voted Demon's > Dark > Dark II. However, I agree with a couple of comments that I've read that favourites on the whole probably correspond with the order in which you've played them.
Every game in the Souls series had a different approach, while keeping the core gameplay intact.
None of them are worst by any means, since I don't mind playing any one of them any time.
Edit: Also for those mentioning Dark Souls 2 being the least favorite, I'd say Dark Souls 2 has the best online/multiplayer interaction system than Demon Souls or Dark Souls (obviously with respect to covenant system). <- this cannot be ignored, since its a very important and unique aspect of the series currently
None of them are worst by any means, since I don't mind playing any one of them any time.
Edit: Also for those mentioning Dark Souls 2 being the least favorite, I'd say Dark Souls 2 has the best online/multiplayer interaction system than Demon Souls or Dark Souls (obviously with respect to covenant system). <- this cannot be ignored, since its a very important and unique aspect of the series currently
You know if youre going to cherry pick examples to make your argument you may want to check that theyre actually correct. The Black Knight Ultra Greatsword and the standard Greatsword have a number of different attacks, both when wielded one handed and when wielded two handed. Most weapons are similar in that the have a few moves that differentiate them from others in their class. You are also underselling dual wielding, and more importantly power stancing which adds an increased diversity to weapon loadouts and allows somewhat custom movesets depending on the powerstanced combination.
Dark Souls 2 >
Simply for performance. PC version is rock solid, and even though it looks a little janky in places it doesn't feel janky.
The boss encounters of Dark Souls were better, the atmosphere was heavier, but the performance on ps3 was atrocious. The PC version felt horrible to play even with the big D's fix, and I just couldn't get a good feel for the game.
I didn't ever play DeS, but from what I've seen the performance is pretty shaky in places too. I wish there was a PC version, games that require this amount of precision I just can't handle in sub 60 fps.
Feels like I missed out in something special, but performance is a big thing for me. Slow frames, stutters, sluggish controls... I only just about made it through TLoU and that game was amazing!
Simply for performance. PC version is rock solid, and even though it looks a little janky in places it doesn't feel janky.
The boss encounters of Dark Souls were better, the atmosphere was heavier, but the performance on ps3 was atrocious. The PC version felt horrible to play even with the big D's fix, and I just couldn't get a good feel for the game.
I didn't ever play DeS, but from what I've seen the performance is pretty shaky in places too. I wish there was a PC version, games that require this amount of precision I just can't handle in sub 60 fps.
Feels like I missed out in something special, but performance is a big thing for me. Slow frames, stutters, sluggish controls... I only just about made it through TLoU and that game was amazing!
Murakumo moveset sucks now, Great Scythe moveset sucks now, Great Club moveset sucks now.
Unforgivable.
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