I agree. It makes it difficult to take some posters seriously when they engage in such blatant behavior. There is rarely anything constructive about their complaints.
"Just looked like a last gen game with next-gen graphics, who cares?"
- Thread starter Amir0x
- Start date
I agree. It makes it difficult to take some posters seriously when they engage in such blatant behavior. There is rarely anything constructive about their complaints.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
It sounds like you want bioshock.
Arc Christelle
Member
Blows my mind that you can't understand people are asking for new approaches towards gameplay and design. Creating a standard in gaming is pretty counterproductive, since it pretty much stifens creativity, causes over saturation, and is pretty fucking boring. Not everybody wants more of the same shit.
Deal with it.
Pushing the medium is more than graphics and hardware.
Also I find it cringeworthy so many of you agreed with the OP. I hope many of you don't use terms like "Casuals" because this mindstate would be like the pot calling the kettle black.
Deal with it.
Pushing the medium is more than graphics and hardware.
Also I find it cringeworthy so many of you agreed with the OP. I hope many of you don't use terms like "Casuals" because this mindstate would be like the pot calling the kettle black.
The Order looks terribly dull. Infamous is dull. Forza is dull. Killzone is a bad video game. As is Ryse. I think people are fine with iteration -- Valve is doing amazing, interesting things with Dota 2 right now, a game that's fundamentally the same as an 11-year old mod. The issue is less about "the new," and more about these games often being fundamentally flawed and not all that iterative.
Zeyphersan
Banned
You sound like a nice guy.
LouisaFerre
Member
Before with each generation there was enough leap to experience new gameplay mechanics, especially with developers taking advantage of 3D in gen 5 and 6. Last gen saw the adoption of some larger games as budgets increased, and the adoption of more online features. The next big leap I think is VR, which has yet to see a consumer release in its current form.
If people are asking for just riskier games than The Order, Killzone, or Ryse, you might be more likely to find them as smaller indie or handheld titles.
If people are asking for just riskier games than The Order, Killzone, or Ryse, you might be more likely to find them as smaller indie or handheld titles.
LightofRohan
Member
Yes. And I also while we're at it, I really think refrigerator technology should improve. You'd think by now refrigerator-companies would just make fridges that can walk on their own, go to the market, wish your mom a happy birthday, make you breakfast, and then serve it to you in the morning. Why aren't people more innovative and creative thinking like I am?
Children can come up with interesting ideas... making them actually a reality is a very difficult and arduous process. We'll eventually reach that point, but getting upset with those that haven't achieved it yet (and doing it the way you want) is just silly and immature.
I get that they've done a really poor job of showing the game--in reality the public has seen almost nothing at all--but likely nothing happened? I would wager you still fight unholy forces and also bad guys with guns.
I think your point on sunset overdrive is a good one, but sunset overdrive has had a number of previews and lots of gameplay footage out there. The order has some gifs comparatively. Rad didn't even know itd be shown today.
You say recent footage has shown a strong focus on tired gameplay mechanics but I think it has barely shown any focus at all, except perhaps on its cinematic nature and the way they're trying to blend gameplay and cinematic.
I just feel like I'm so uninformed on this title. So many posts speak so authoritatively and I have to be missing something.
This is to say nothing of footage already released or the footage itself.
I'm not 'encouraged' to buy a new fridge whenever they change the packaging on my sliced cheese.
Every approach to gameplay HAS BEEN done, ad nauseum. It is to that point, and has been, for a long time. It is now about the nuances, the special refinements, that distinguish great games from mediocrity. It is rather like telling a story, in that all of the basic plots have been devised already. What matters is the telling.
For all its twists on the FPS genre, Bioshock always felt pretty conventional to me. I often ended up playing it like any other shooter because I hated having a limited mana pool for special abilities. I disliked having to worry about when and where I would get more mana/salts/whatever, so I'd just gun down everything and use my spells pretty sparingly. Melee combat was effective but completely unimaginative.
An upcoming game that looked pretty cool to me was Lichdom: Battlemage. Here's a decent gameplay trailer. First person game, all about spellcasting, no mana pool. You can cast as many spells as you want, and use enemy drops to craft and create new spells. Apparently the Early Access version is pretty rough and I wouldn't be surprised if the final product is pretty rough too. I'm not going to herald it as the best thing ever, but it seems like a pretty cool point of inspiration for other developers.
Maybe Lichdom won't be that great. Maybe it will even suck. But it's certainly more interesting than another cover shooter. I think it's a good example of how to put a decent spin on tired and overused genre conventions.
Arc Christelle
Member
Depends on topic. I'm a bit more hostile in this discussion because the I find the attitude carried very problematic towards the future of gaming which is something I'm passionate about.
I just find it frustrating that some have difficulties understand that those people who make those statements are looking for something unique.
We can talk about how narratives, acting, graphics, and tech push gaming, but not many put much thought in discussing game design, mechanics, unique approaches etc.
For example, I know Treasure isn't seen as the great game dev in the world, and I can understand that their games aren't for everyone [along with sometimes very unintuitive controls] but I always admired that they thought out of the box when it came to design and gameplay. I can look at them and learn from them, perhaps take those things and make something better.
In a world full of sandwiches, what makes your sandwich special? You know, something like that.
No the hell it hasn't. The past generation was heavily on dual analog, (Left stick move, right stick camera) which believe it or not, wasn't standard during the GCN/PS2/Xbox era.
We have new peripherals now, like the Move, Kinect, Wiimote/Gamepad/Touch Screens, etc. There is plenty that could be done.
[Edit: When I think about it, even Sega found a way to make a great Sonic game while giving the gameplay and style its own identity.]
refrigerator technology does improve, many now offer filtered ice water, dual door designs offer less heat penetration when the doors are opened, they allow for different level of cooling based on how close/far they are to the back, top and bottom, they have on average more storage in less space, and the costs on once expensive upgrades are consistently falling. The technology improved all aspects of the fridge, not just coldness factor, just like tech should improve all aspects of games, not just graphics.
thanks for the analogy, and thanks for being wrong. I appreciate your failed attempt though. The tech is definitely there, and its getting better. If a game like roller-coaster tycoon can have completely unique characters, each one simulated and tracked, we should be expecting it of other developers. Whats wrong is that we want graphics, and so having wild ideas of what should or is capable is lost on us because we keep re-enforcing silly graphics come first design philosphy.
Whats sad is a pathetic attempt to be conservative, to promote a status quo which is only creating contempt for commercial and big budget titles while fracturing the industry. I bet it wont be long until indie games, budget titles, and art games over-take the mainstream gaming market... But then again, why should we worry about all those employed in gaming, when the studios making halo 8 and uncharted 5, and cod 17 are still pumping away.
They could if the budget wasn't spent on making better graphics instead.
I don't think that everything HAS BEEN done already. But even if I were to concede that point, everything has not be done "ad nauseum". There are plenty of genres and gameplay styles that are rarely if ever explored.
The problem with The Order isn't that it has been done before, but that it's been done by a different game every 6-12 months. Gamers are just fatigued with cover shooters. People are excited for a new Mirror's Edge not because it has never been done before (it obviously has). People are excited for a new Mirror's Edge because it hasn't been done in half a decade. Even though Alien Isolation will likely be pretty similar to recent first person horror games, people are excited to see a first person horror game with AAA production values and a top-notch license.
I hope you're right, and that there's much more to be uncovered for The Order. I'm a total fan of steampunk + horror/occult, and if the E3 showing reveals some more varied gameplay styles they would totally have my attention.
I think it's worth pointing out that while Sunset Overdrive has had many previews and lots of gameplay revealed, the original trailer that got released a year ago totally conveyed all the game's ideas, innovations, gameplay, and tone in a very succinct package. Insomniac showed us everything that they thought was cool about the game in less than 80 seconds of footage. We now have at least 5-10 minutes of footage of The Order, and are still debating about what the hell it is supposed to be and whether or not there will be more to it than has already been shown. Even if you ignore the last month's worth of Sunset Overdrive reveals, that initial trailer did so much more than what RAD has.
family_guy
Member
Then people would complain about getting last gen graphics on current gen hardware. There's no winning. People will always find a reason to complain about something.
I would posit that as falling within the bounds of what I called "refinement". Though perhaps, upon reflection, evolution might not necessarily be refinement, per se. But in that instance I would argue it is. It is a refinement in that it allows the player more immediate control over and thus understanding of his field of play.
I agree that games are more than pushing graphics and hardware. Peripherals and dual analog are hardware, yes? Gameplay genres are pretty much exhausted, though, as far as what would reasonant as a good game, much as story plots that would reasonate as a good read are.
Brutal Truth
Neo Member
Yeah, does it exist in PC's? I don't know, it might need a dash of "cloud" and a pinch of...
I'm selfish, I'd rather game developers cater to my needs over others, but I guess they think others money is more important than mine, or at least easier (because it is entrenched) to get.
Gen 8 games have offered me no reason to buy gen 8 consoles, and until they do I won't, I'm not going to get distracted by shiny graphics like some do.
Disclaimer: I have a 3DS (gen 8 handheld) because it actually offers fun (to me) experiences.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Plenty of pc games experiment partly because they are of lower budget. There's a reason the indie movement started on pc's
Indies still provide the most diversity but there's nothing wrong with using that hardware to push more complex games (AI, scope and mechanics) than better looking games.
Brofist on all counts. I love what my 3DS offers me. It's my favorite game system of the last couple of generations. And I include the DS in that group.
Arc Christelle
Member
To a point I agree, but I'm always playing games and thinking about ideas and concepts, [Personally I want Arena Fighters to finally take the limelight]. As far as genres go, it's easy to label most things, but it doesn't necessarily mean it has to play like other games with the same label, ya know?
I'm still waiting on Star Fox Assault 2 with huge maps, Gamepad commands and air strikes. Improved weapons, movement and combat. lol
But seriously. I look back at a lot of games from the past two decades, and even some games today and I think there's so many ways we can push the medium.
Before Miyamoto, using physics like in Super Mario Bros. was damn near unheard of.
I didn't believe an action game could work on a touchscreen until I played Ninja Gaiden Dragon sword.
I didn't know Alien Soldier existed. I guess I can define it as a Boss Rush game, but it still blows my mind even to this day.
Not many people know Osman is a better game than Strider on so many levels.
Games like Psychic Force exists and Taito's not even touching it, despite it's potential.
Old arcade titles and gems are a goldmine of gameplay approaches that are filled to the brim with inspiration.
Lost Planet fed me to a fuckin Salamander with spiders inside it's belly and shat me out.... and it was glorious.
Hell I didn't think 3D 4player platforming could truly be a thing then 3D World happened.
[Which proves that perhaps refinement is evolution.]
But the point I'm making is, there's so much more to be created.
[Oh and am I one of the few who were impressed by Shenmue? I mean seriously there still isn't any games like it on that depth of interaction with the environment. I believe so many mystery games and dramas could learn from it.]
Final: Damn.... and we still [and may not ever] Have a console Kyle Hyde game.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Creativity only truly becomes limited when you believe it there's no more you can innovate. There maybe nothing truly new under the sun but that doesn't mean there isn't still plenty left to discover and expand..
yeah, so 4 games in 7 years and now cinematic tps genre is unplayable because we play it so much?
I could even understand that at some remote level, but calling racers boring is where I draw the line... sim racers with realistic graphics and focus on tiny details is what every racer fan wants. Idea is to replicate real world, not to invent something "new", there is no new gameplay possible in the world of racers.
With The Order, people are skipping graphics part as if we have been playing great looking games forever (we have not), and everyone wants to focus on the gameplay part, gameplay is the king.
With Watch Dogs, people are saying that game is unplayable because of crappy graphics and 90% of people in those threads were focusing on graphics and textures - and mostly everyone ignored gameplay completely (which looked awesome).
Take these both combined, it seems to me that people just want to crap on something.
grandwizard
Member
Standards change and people get tired of playing the same thing over and over. If a new Uncharted was released today and played exactly the same as the previous ones you would see disappointments as well. The footage they released of the Order is the exact same type of gameplay that people already got their fill of during the last generation with nothing new or innovative about it, just prettier graphics.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's mostly people accept what they're given, if you market the game a certain way people expect the game to behave that way unless you tell them otherwise. If you market a army fps people aren't going expect lap dances in Vegas, it may exist in the game but that's not the mind set people have.
As with most human interactions first impressions matter a lot, and unless it's distinctly marketed against that impression people will hold onto it firmly. It's why good marketing works I greatly imagine but it can also bite you in the ass.
Lol at 4 games there were dozens of tps last generations more shovel ware tps than I can care to remember.
It's no wonder people got sick of it if the game in question shows nothing new.
OneEyeTwoHead
Banned
There's so much fucking hate in the air recently--I honestly can't believe it.
There's 4 Gears of War games, 4 Uncharted games, plus plenty of offshoot titles that relied heavily on mechanics established in GoW and/or UC (Tomb Raider reboot, Vanquish, Resident Evil 5 & 6, the shooting mechanics in GTA4 and GTA5). I don't think it's really unfair to say that style of play has been done very extensively. If you're into it then that's fine, but I don't think you can pretend that there's anything fresh about a 3rd person cover shooter.
Yeah, definitely. When The Order was revealed it was about a group of heroes fighting a supernatural threat in Victorian England. Now they're showing off dudes with machine guns fighting other dudes with machine guns. The backlash is due to the marked difference between the reveal trailer and the gameplay footage. They drew in everyone that wanted an occult steampunk thriller, but then showed off a pretty standard shooter.
HueyFreeman
Banned
It's actually better than last gen. It's just sports teams - really don't let it rub you the wrong way. People just get in to it, and the ones that get in to it too much are the most vocal. Picture the drunk assholes ruining everyone else's time at a football game.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It was an inevitability. A lot of people like AAA games. A lot of people like variety. As the number AAA games decrease due to their obscene budgets, those games that remain play it safer and safer. Eventually a breaking point is reached as the group of people that prefer variety become sick of playing the same old games again and again.
Paracelsus
Member
Atari had moving dots
NES gave us stylized sprites
SNES gave us polished sprites
As sprites kept improving, PC and consoles started outputting very rough 3D, which got polished in between 2000 and 2008. We've seen pretty much everything there was to see.
Gaf will disagree, but I think Nintendo saw it coming, that's why they went for the remote first and the tablet later: when you're completely out of ideas, you're left with gimmicks, like VR.
Pretty much this. Succinctly put.
The closer the industry pushes towards real world parity in graphics, the further they pull away from producing games. I think Nintendo sees this too.
People expect something new, exciting and revolutionary.
Are told they will get that..
Get shown something very much same..
How do you expect the majority to react? Honestly I am surprised so many are upset that others are disappointed, but then again its a Sony game so I guess there will be a defense force no matter what.
Are told they will get that..
Get shown something very much same..
How do you expect the majority to react? Honestly I am surprised so many are upset that others are disappointed, but then again its a Sony game so I guess there will be a defense force no matter what.
JordanN
Banned
I disagree. Last gen had far less clashes. Every console fanbase kept to themselves.
Now everyday is a daily clash between Wii U camps, PS4, XBO, 3DS, PS Vita and PC and the arguments behind them have only gotten worse.
"Well, your game sucks because it sucks" ~ Average 2014 post about video games.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Since many are singling out The Order here. I'd just like to say using the "nextgen gameplay" card against it is the dumbest thing ever, more than any other game. For instance it's a pretty valid complaint for Infamous SS, but here you have a game that's trying to go for lifelike graphics, of course it follows that the gameplay will be traditional if they want to stay realistic. How many ways can they put you in control of a guy shooting a bloody gun???
Or you get something dumb like that new sniper game where the camera follows the trajectory of a bullet into an enemy's head and then you get an X-ray vision of the damage you caused. Ooooh teh innovation.
Or you get something dumb like that new sniper game where the camera follows the trajectory of a bullet into an enemy's head and then you get an X-ray vision of the damage you caused. Ooooh teh innovation.
Nah thats total bullshit.. maybe you were just better at ignoring it.
You couldnt say anything about xbox without being bashed with Red Rings!, or PS3 without being told it had no games.
The problem is that people weren't expecting the game to be a bog-standard shooter. Yes, there's only so many ways you can do a shooter, but given the setting and theme I don't think it was unreasonable to expect something different.
The Order has protagonists in the 19th century wielding machine guns -- I think they gave up on "realism" pretty early.
HueyFreeman
Banned
Man, this is just untrue.
Anyways, if it bothers you, you might be taking it too seriously. Not meant as a criticism, just a thought.
JordanN
Banned
I believe people said those things in jest. Especially since it was closer to satire.
Now when someone says "PC Master race" they really mean it.
LightofRohan
Member
This makes me think. Is there a game where you could show two minutes of gameplay that would result in universal praise and admiration? Something that wouldn't be able to be boiled down to, "it's just a clone of X!"?
Can't really think of anything outside of really obscure indie games.
Can't really think of anything outside of really obscure indie games.
well, if you are comparing this to "shooting mechanics in GTA5", then they cant win. I dont think The Order and GTA5 can be any further from each other.
I guess they should stop doing fps, tps, rpg, racing, rts, and pretty much every other genre that exists now, as everything has been done by now.
And even then, it does not explain the crap the Watchdogs was getting for its graphics, despite gameplay looking great.
So it is clearly not pursuit for better gameplay, to me it seems like people just want to make noise.
Galactic Barret
Member
Can I just say: if The Order plays anything like Uncharted (namely, UC2) during traversal/combat, its going to be a great game.
I consider UC2 to be the best cover-based TPS on consoles.
To be completely on-topic, I believe the influx of negativity is due to E3 being near. The purge during and after the event... good luck careless members.
I consider UC2 to be the best cover-based TPS on consoles.
To be completely on-topic, I believe the influx of negativity is due to E3 being near. The purge during and after the event... good luck careless members.
I'm really surprised how many of you are fine with AAA games just getting prettier, while gameplay innovation is being left to the Indies.
At the beginning of last gen, Crackdown introduced verticality to the open world genre. The amount of zombies on screen in Dead Rising made such a difference. Ubi's big game was Assassins Creed and the free-climbing was revolutionary. Gears of War's cover-system was a game-changer, even if you had played KillSwitch before.
I think being critical that devs haven't shown any attempts to innovate on the gameplay front yet and that a game like the Order that initially seemed promising in that regard now looks more like "Gears of War: Ye Olde England" is only fair.
At the beginning of last gen, Crackdown introduced verticality to the open world genre. The amount of zombies on screen in Dead Rising made such a difference. Ubi's big game was Assassins Creed and the free-climbing was revolutionary. Gears of War's cover-system was a game-changer, even if you had played KillSwitch before.
I think being critical that devs haven't shown any attempts to innovate on the gameplay front yet and that a game like the Order that initially seemed promising in that regard now looks more like "Gears of War: Ye Olde England" is only fair.
Almost every generation kids say their system is the best and actually means it.. nothing new.
If anything what you said is more of a joke than anything. It started as an insult to PC gamers and many ran with it in spite.
Clockwork5
Member
While I agree with you and I see the genres you have listed have been extremely refined, there are some who expect gameplay developments with the next gen. That new mechanic or gameplay loop that will hook everyone and be that refreshing elemennt that keeps gaming moving forward.
I am reasonable and understand that these evolutions come with great thinkers, not ddr5 ram.
I am reasonable and understand that these evolutions come with great thinkers, not ddr5 ram.
Well, for me personally and those I know these next gen games aren't merely asking for investment in themselves but also into a whole platform. When looking at something like The Order I'm considering how much I like what I'm seeing versus what it requires of me to attain it. It is there I make the call that it just isn't new enough than what I currently have available. This is why killer apps are so important, new ground breaking innovations (there is that dirty word) that require the investment needed to partake in novel experience that wasn't possible before. After a number of people have purchased the system/platform for the killer app, then the pressure put upon your average piece of software on that platform is eased as then it only needs to sell itself to an install base rather than it's self and a platform. The contention here seems to assume that those who decry lack of "next gen gameplay" already own a next gen system and/or fails to account for the financial barrier of entry into next gen affecting standards for next gen games which are the justification for investing heavily into a platform or not.
In this respect, it feel time can take the place of a killer app in that eventually next gen (current gen) will reach a point of ubiquity that "next gen gameplay" will become a passe observation. But at the moment, these systems are young and they need to prove their worth in different ways to those not impressed enough with graphical refinement.
In this respect, it feel time can take the place of a killer app in that eventually next gen (current gen) will reach a point of ubiquity that "next gen gameplay" will become a passe observation. But at the moment, these systems are young and they need to prove their worth in different ways to those not impressed enough with graphical refinement.
Galactic Barret
Member
Hulk: Ultimate Destruction.
Other than that, I assume this is bait. I'm too scared to approach it.
Edit: Now I can't remember if H:UD was truly open world. I'm pretty sure it was.