Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting
- Thread starter tehbible
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I'm not ready to blame the parents, especially since it's been said he was getting help for his Aspergers.
The difficult thing with Aspergers is your peers tend to be less understanding because nothing "appears" to be wrong with you. It's difficult to pick up on the sometimes subtle social deficits and there doesn't appear to be any language delay (but there are oddities in their language if you use a sensitive measurement).
This leads to kids being particularly cruel to kids with Aspergers, whereas they wouldn't do that to a child with classic autism.
I've also found that clients I've worked with that have gotten intense intervention early have more "buy in" to my lessons than those who start at a later age. Maybe his parents didn't get him help until things go bad.
The difficult thing with Aspergers is your peers tend to be less understanding because nothing "appears" to be wrong with you. It's difficult to pick up on the sometimes subtle social deficits and there doesn't appear to be any language delay (but there are oddities in their language if you use a sensitive measurement).
This leads to kids being particularly cruel to kids with Aspergers, whereas they wouldn't do that to a child with classic autism.
I've also found that clients I've worked with that have gotten intense intervention early have more "buy in" to my lessons than those who start at a later age. Maybe his parents didn't get him help until things go bad.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Light was a complete fucking idiot. That aside, I've read a few theories that this was a persona he adopted to cope with his narcissism, which is why his writings and videos feel so satire-like.
I did as well but it didn't seem they understood what the game is as it was boxed in the same genre as Halo and COD.
Aspergers does not cause people to commit murder. That guy had some sort of psychosis.
You are misinformed. Psychosis also does not cause people to commit murder. You are just perpetuating the stigma of mental illness.
Generalizing like this is akin to saying all people with anemia are burglars, etc.
I do. I at least think the dating threads on GAF will take a different tone.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I find it really interesting how modern concepts of masculinity have evolved. I believe that traditionally the suppressed woman gave all men a false state of masculinity. All men were entitled to masculinity because all men were bread winners, and all wives relied on their husband. As times have progressed and women have come to a roughly equal plateau with men in terms of career prospects and autonomy, it is clear that some men really, really struggle with this. They struggle with their own identity as a man because they can't grasp what makes them a man, and what a woman is attracted to in a man.
For a man we understand what attracts us to a woman, and it is primarily (though not mutually) a physical attraction. I think this is part of the reason why weight lifting has gained such traction, as men try to regain some semblance of masculine domination by building masculine physiques.
For a woman's attraction, I think it is more abstract, it is a need for protection and emotional fulfilment. In some ways a masculine physique satisfies that need for safety. But ultimately i think a woman's feelings towards a man can be influenced by the most nuanced thing, like a word spoken in a certain way or the way a man holds himself. I know with my current girlfriend she was attracted with the way i walked into a room and in my relationhip experiences women have picked up and remembered certain things said for years that hold emotional resonance with them. I'd imagine It is quite difficult to truly appreciate for somebody with aspergers, especially if this guy acts as he did in his videos in his every day interactions.
I wonder if he was truly atrracted to women or simply saw this as an objective goal he must maintain to prove his masculinity. This guy was not only physically intimidated by women but it was clear he was mentally intimidated by them, all his delusions of grandeur in his own masculinity and rights and he couldn't work up the courage to talk to a woman. In truth it seems to me he had absolutely no grasp of why a woman would be attracted to a man and it burned through him. Losing virginity has become a major source of accomplishment for young men, and I can see how not accomplishing it could slowly eat away at him.
For a man we understand what attracts us to a woman, and it is primarily (though not mutually) a physical attraction. I think this is part of the reason why weight lifting has gained such traction, as men try to regain some semblance of masculine domination by building masculine physiques.
For a woman's attraction, I think it is more abstract, it is a need for protection and emotional fulfilment. In some ways a masculine physique satisfies that need for safety. But ultimately i think a woman's feelings towards a man can be influenced by the most nuanced thing, like a word spoken in a certain way or the way a man holds himself. I know with my current girlfriend she was attracted with the way i walked into a room and in my relationhip experiences women have picked up and remembered certain things said for years that hold emotional resonance with them. I'd imagine It is quite difficult to truly appreciate for somebody with aspergers, especially if this guy acts as he did in his videos in his every day interactions.
I wonder if he was truly atrracted to women or simply saw this as an objective goal he must maintain to prove his masculinity. This guy was not only physically intimidated by women but it was clear he was mentally intimidated by them, all his delusions of grandeur in his own masculinity and rights and he couldn't work up the courage to talk to a woman. In truth it seems to me he had absolutely no grasp of why a woman would be attracted to a man and it burned through him. Losing virginity has become a major source of accomplishment for young men, and I can see how not accomplishing it could slowly eat away at him.
The meme.
braves01 said:
Actually, I could see that helping him more than hurting him. From the bits and pieces of his "manifesto" that were posted here, he had an issue with females rejecting him and insulting him. WoW, those characters/avatars you don't know the real gender. I could see that at least circumventing some of the "internet assholes" getting to him. *shrug*
I don't get this vibe at all.
The kid had aspergers and was completely socially inept. He withdrew into videogames and animé and that's where he "learned" all his social skills.
He speaks like a stereotypical supervillain because that's the reality he exists in. He's just adopted the persona of all these characters he's seen and become obsessed with.
Shake Appeal
Member
Great post.
i think bringing up mental illness is like bringing up a place with a ton of fire hazards as a reason for a fire. every place with a fire hazard isn't going to cause a problem, but it makes you way more susceptible if you have the wrong set of conditions.
of course its more complicated than trite little analogies as fire hazards aren't people and don't have to exist as humans in a hostile culture of stigmatization for those suffering with mental illness. but i don't think it has to be that way. examining the way that mental illnesses can lead to tragedies like this doesn't have to otherize people with it, if done right it can helps highlight the difficulty a lot of people have with them.
for example if you can read this story and see for yourself how people's thinking can get so warped that they'd completely mis-inteprtet everything in the world as an attack on them and how someone's brain can torture itself with feelings of lonliness, inferiority and anger to such a point that they'd shoot so many people, it can help you understand the processes that people struggle with. now this is an extreme example yes, but the principles of illness determining lots of behaviour and the importance and necessity of getting serious help instead of trapping yourself in your brain as it sends toxic messages to you are valuable takeaways that you can bring to more mundane examples and help you be more empathetic to those around you with them.
of course its more complicated than trite little analogies as fire hazards aren't people and don't have to exist as humans in a hostile culture of stigmatization for those suffering with mental illness. but i don't think it has to be that way. examining the way that mental illnesses can lead to tragedies like this doesn't have to otherize people with it, if done right it can helps highlight the difficulty a lot of people have with them.
for example if you can read this story and see for yourself how people's thinking can get so warped that they'd completely mis-inteprtet everything in the world as an attack on them and how someone's brain can torture itself with feelings of lonliness, inferiority and anger to such a point that they'd shoot so many people, it can help you understand the processes that people struggle with. now this is an extreme example yes, but the principles of illness determining lots of behaviour and the importance and necessity of getting serious help instead of trapping yourself in your brain as it sends toxic messages to you are valuable takeaways that you can bring to more mundane examples and help you be more empathetic to those around you with them.
It's not him.
This is the most sane reasoning I have ever read.
Lone Wolf
Member
His first three victims were stabbed to death.
Not saying psychosis commits mass murder. Just saying Aspergers are not known for having violent tendencies.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Out of curiosity, are you guys waiting for "the one"? Is it a religious thing? Not interested in dating? Standards that may be acutely high? Or are you just that shy/bashful? Feel inferior/unworthy? Certainly your tag makes me even more curious.
For me it was a religious thing and I was shy (sometimes had trouble asking some girls out).
...but then I turned 17 and the call of the pussy was too stronk. But everyone's story is different.
He resembles this guy.
Actually he looks like this guy:
http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2013/09/30/30-the-good-wife-5.o.jpg/a_560x375.jpg
Shooter was half Chinese.
You're both wrong:
Also, the first thing I thought of when I saw him:
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Mitsuo_Kubo
Persona 4 character, spoilers and details in the link.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
He was half-asian. Ironically, he expressed some very racist sentiments against "full asians" (and other minorities) in his old forum posts.
Headlines like the "virgin killer" are very distasteful. One can never set the bar too low for MSM after such incidents. And what the fuck is wrong with some of these people on YouTube? Is Google ever going to take responsibility regarding content that they are hosting? No wonder people want others to use ther real names with internet i.d's etc.
chaobreaker
Member
I assume most people picture a white guy when they think of mass shooting killers. Not that it matters since Internet racists seem to shut up when a white dude goes and kills a lot of people.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Results are unsurprising. Conclusion spot-on.
KibblesBits
Member
OH FFS.
I don't find that ironic at all. My friend will say stuff abput Mexicans even though he is half Mexican.
Nonetheless he seems to viewed himself as more white than Asian yet no mention of his race as a pathology. This is the only article I've seen that tries to tackle the issue:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/24/1301736/--The-True-Alpha-Male-Elliot-Rodger-and-Aggrieved-White-Male-Entitlement-Syndrome
Yeah but rarely does the media ever view white shooters as a cultural pathology. The rest of us on the other hand, something must be wrong with our culture.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Every time this happens American culture is brought into question, especially eithin international media, and right down to specific sub cultures supporting gun rights within a domestic context
This sarcasm is mostly just preaching to the choir here. You would be better off tossing this grenade in stormfront or youtube.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Its very sad knowing that a lot of people will focus on the "disgruntled virgin" aspect without realizing that shaming others for not having sex is what fed into to the echo chamber this guy was stuck in in the first place.
Aside from the terrible things he committed, I do feel empathy for his predicament before he acted upon it.
It's just that... most people in their youth will at one point feel the things he was feeling. Most people will feel left out, unattractive, unwanted, and inadequate. But most people don't turn their bitterness into murderous intent.
A shockingly sad case. I feel for him, his parents, the innocent victims and most tragically, their families. Ugh. It's hard to even imagine how this could have been prevented.
It's just that... most people in their youth will at one point feel the things he was feeling. Most people will feel left out, unattractive, unwanted, and inadequate. But most people don't turn their bitterness into murderous intent.
A shockingly sad case. I feel for him, his parents, the innocent victims and most tragically, their families. Ugh. It's hard to even imagine how this could have been prevented.
I hope it won't turn into profiling like what happened with goth kids post-Columbine.
Enosh
Member
he can view himself as a cat that doesn't make it so
Yep. This case is quite reflective of the struggles of modern day youth, the way media creates expectations for us and leads us to seek out the 'perfect' existence, etc.
This kid basically wanted a hot girlfriend, money, expensive cars, the perfect life. He had two of those and was still astonishingly unsatisfied. His predicament baffles me entirely, and yet I understand how he was feeling to some degree.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I'd argue that most people in that situation don't turn bitter, either. They don't project their own inadequacies as being the fault of society. They keep trying and trying until they finally figure it out. Puberty is a difficult time for us all.
I don't think disagreeing with HyperionX's worldview is a bannable offense.
Was he being really honest in his video? Is that actually the way he felt? It feels, I don't know, forced?
It would be cringeworthy if he didn't act on it, feels like he's trying to act cool like his favorite villain or something like that, it's hard to believe someone truly thinks that way.
The laughs are definitely forced, even if he did find it funny, who laughs like that?
It's really weird to see that he was so narcissistic that he couldn't realize when watching his videos or reading his posts, that he was actually way more obnoxious than those "obnoxious brutes".
I don't really have an opinion on him, just saying things I found interesting...
It would be cringeworthy if he didn't act on it, feels like he's trying to act cool like his favorite villain or something like that, it's hard to believe someone truly thinks that way.
The laughs are definitely forced, even if he did find it funny, who laughs like that?
It's really weird to see that he was so narcissistic that he couldn't realize when watching his videos or reading his posts, that he was actually way more obnoxious than those "obnoxious brutes".
I don't really have an opinion on him, just saying things I found interesting...
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
It will very likely will happen given how the history of these things work and how heavily documented his thoughts were. The media loves focusing on the most scandalous metric possible so they can extend controversies as long as possible before the next big thing happens. Expect a lot of talking heads (some of whom have books coming out) and so on.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
This guy is really getting a lot of attention; domestic and international. I'm not saying to sweep this under the rug but there's a lot of people like him out there and I'm a little worried he'll be seen as a martyr.
digoutyoursoul
Member
That is my concern, there is already a page on Facebook dedicated to him calling him a hero
I think I can relate to some things though, for example, for a period of my life I had the 'nice guy' mentality too, it didn't go as far as blaming women though, it mostly just lowered my already low self esteem, I thought I wasn't good looking, I was really shy and on top of that even being a nice guy had no effect. The thing is though, the way to get out of this situation, at least in my case, was tricky. In his case it's obvious for anyone since he's so over the top, but it can be difficult for someone with low self esteem like me to realize that they think highly of themselves, it's a weird concept. I had to realize that no, I'm not a nice guy, in fact, I'm kind of an asshole (and I enjoy being one).
I still don't think I'm really attractive, but I'm not entitled to anything, how is it "fair" if I get a super pretty girl and she gets me, who, at least in my opinion, is not? So then you lower your standards, and that even opens your eyes for different kinds of beauty. I'd say my preferences are actually very different now from back then.
About being shy, what really helped me was a job. Getting out of my dad's house helped too, but it was mostly getting a job, it doesn't matter if you're shy and have a hard time communicating with people, if you work with customers, you just have to suck it up, treat them well and do your job. I didn't even want to talk on the phone before, and, while I still really hate it, I'm not embarrassed about it anymore, I just dislike it. So while I'm at work, it won't be any problem.
I can kinda relate to his hatred torwards society, I guess. I don't really hate everyone, but I'm not super interested either. I guess a way of putting it would be that I have a hard time giving a shit about stuff. I don't quite get it myself, but for some reason I can easily cry watching movies or even anime, but I have a really hard time empathizing with real drama. For example, I can't feel sorry for him now, but not because I'm angry at what he did. I never felt the urge to kill people because of it though, so it would be unfair to comment on what he was feeling.
I feel sorry for the families of the victims, and while I don't mean to disregard all the psychological issues that he had and should've been treated, I can't help but feel like he was mostly just an asshole, and I really don't mean it with hatred because of what he did, even if he didn't act on it, my impressions from reading his posts would be pretty much "not sure if trolling or just an asshole".
I'm open to be educated though.
I still don't think I'm really attractive, but I'm not entitled to anything, how is it "fair" if I get a super pretty girl and she gets me, who, at least in my opinion, is not? So then you lower your standards, and that even opens your eyes for different kinds of beauty. I'd say my preferences are actually very different now from back then.
About being shy, what really helped me was a job. Getting out of my dad's house helped too, but it was mostly getting a job, it doesn't matter if you're shy and have a hard time communicating with people, if you work with customers, you just have to suck it up, treat them well and do your job. I didn't even want to talk on the phone before, and, while I still really hate it, I'm not embarrassed about it anymore, I just dislike it. So while I'm at work, it won't be any problem.
I can kinda relate to his hatred torwards society, I guess. I don't really hate everyone, but I'm not super interested either. I guess a way of putting it would be that I have a hard time giving a shit about stuff. I don't quite get it myself, but for some reason I can easily cry watching movies or even anime, but I have a really hard time empathizing with real drama. For example, I can't feel sorry for him now, but not because I'm angry at what he did. I never felt the urge to kill people because of it though, so it would be unfair to comment on what he was feeling.
I feel sorry for the families of the victims, and while I don't mean to disregard all the psychological issues that he had and should've been treated, I can't help but feel like he was mostly just an asshole, and I really don't mean it with hatred because of what he did, even if he didn't act on it, my impressions from reading his posts would be pretty much "not sure if trolling or just an asshole".
I'm open to be educated though.
Mammoth Jones
Member
And that's why I can't stand when we plaster this guys face on TV and Newspapers and give him the attention in death he so desperately craved in life. He should die as he lived: A forgotten coward...
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I agree, there's way too much focus on the killer rather than the victims. If news media didn't give the killer so much attention we would probably see less copycats when things like this happen.
digoutyoursoul
Member
The media has been criticised in the past for this with people like Adam Lanza, they don't seem to care. I had to switch off the news channel as it was all about this guy, going on about him, his life, his demeanour, his fucking car,, hardly nothing about the people suffering due to his actions.
There was no element of his personality that I could feel empathy for. He was never a "nice guy", he didn't do anything nice, he was a racist and misogynistic asshole who had psychopathic dreams of dominating human life. I am not trying to harp on your opinion, just sharing my perspective.
Bucket Mouse
Member
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
I just watched the video, that's so incredibly disturbing and him laughing about it in the video is just terrifying...
Lé Blade Runner
Member
I have to admit that I skimmed through his whole 144-page manifesto. Didn't read every page, but most of it. And now I kind of wish I hadn't - it was a repetition of "women are attracted to the wrong kind of men, therefore women are faulty -> sex should be made illegal, because if I can't get it, nobody should get it -> all I want is a sexy blonde next to me, but because it doesn't magically happen to me without any social effort what-so-ever, humanity is rotten and life is cruel". So sad.
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